Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Chozo Ghost]

I do not get the $350 to $450 price tag for the Wii 2 if it is going to use the same technology as the 360.

Cafe will be a Behemoth which will be more powerful than a PS3 and 360 combined.

[Stogi]

I do not get the $350 to $450 price tag for the Wii 2 if it is going to use the same technology as the 360. It would seem to me as though the system should be $299.99 at the most and that is most I will want to pay for a new HD system.

This is the company that is currently overcharging at least $50 on the 3DS, so it's more than feasible to me that Nintendo would charge $350-$450 for an Xbox 360 with a new controller gimmick.

For all our sakes, I hope that the press just bags on the new Nintendo hardware at E3 this year.  Everyone going nuts over the 3DS last E3 is what led to Nintendo upping the cost.

I wouldn't say they are overcharging us, they just made the mistake of telling us their overcharging us .

[Ian Sane]

If they nail 1 and 3 with an iffy 2 would your really wait a year?

I waited a year for the DS and about six months for a Wii.  It is no big deal for me to wait and see.
 
This gen Nintendo's console was so inadequate to my needs that I had to buy another console from a competing company.  This has never happened.  Prior to that any non-Nintendo console I owned was purchased at the end of the generation when the system was cheap so I could grab a couple of big exclusives I missed out on.  This is the only time I felt I had to "switch" consoles mid-generation.  So they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt from me.  They lost my loyality so they have to earn it back.  I think that is totally fair.  If they continue to have **** third party support it would make more sense for the Nintendo console to be the one I get at the end of the generation to grab a couple of exclusives I missed out on.
 
Nintendo will make a profit on the console itself.  If it is $450 we will not be getting $450 worth of cutting edge technology.  Still I bet one could make a pretty awesome console that launches in 2012 with a break even price of $350 so Nintendo could do that and still pocket $100.  Though their uber controller could make up a huge chunk of the costs but I think having controllers in that high of a price range would be a stupid idea because everyone buys multiple controllers.  So to get a Cafe with an extra controller it will cost $550?  That's ridiculous.
 
Though there are rumours that the screen controller will be the "main" one but for multiplayer the other players will play lesser controllers or potentially just use Wii remotes.  This removes the expense of purchasing multiple screen controllers.  So either that is the method Nintendo is going with or their screen controllers are not nearly as advanced as the rumours indicate and would not end up taking a big chunk of the $450 cost.  Or Nintendo has gone crazy is pulling a PS3 with overpriced products.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I do not get the $350 to $450 price tag for the Wii 2 if it is going to use the same technology as the 360. It would seem to me as though the system should be $299.99 at the most and that is most I will want to pay for a new HD system.

If this system uses the rumored R700 and a better TriCore cpu, it will **** all over the 360 and then use its tears in a bidet to clean it's ass. There is no way Nintendo can release 360clone in 2012 and charge more than $249 regardless of how much the controller cost. The 360 will be $149 standard price by the time this thing comes out.

[Adrock]

DS success funds PSP failures. That's the way it's been for a long time.
Just like WIi shovelware has been funding AAA budget HD games.

So I don't know why PSP continues to get more games than Wii or DS, I can only guess that Sony is offering some sort of incentive, but even if they aren't really losing money, they surely aren't making any either

You have no evidence for any of this. It's just poorly supported conjecture on your part. In fact, looking back, most of your points are. (that sounds worse than I mean it to)

See, you don't have to explain to me why anyone complained about Friend Codes or a single analog nub on DS and PSP respectively. I know why people complained about them. The point is that people complained yet supported the hardware anyway and neither of those things were related to the storage medium. So, tell me, why would 3rd parties complain about those things and not Nintendo imposing strict N64-esque cartridge policies on DS/3DS cards? Hint: there are no such policies currently in place. We live in the internet age. If Nintendo was jerking 3rd parties around like the old days, we would have heard about it. They'd still support the hardware, but they'd make their voices heard by leaking it to IGN or Kotaku because news outlets love juicy stories. Your fears that Nintendo will suddenly revert to Evil-Empire-Darth-Yamauchi-Run-Nintendo are baseless.

I think we're done here. I never said Nintendo would use cards; rather I said it seems like something they would do considering their displeasure with optical media. Do I really think they'll do it? I'm sure it's been tested in Kyoto. I'm leaning on them not switching to cards even though it totally fits their company culture. Nintendo has a habit of embodying "I play by my own rules, nobody else's, not even my own."

For all our sakes, I hope that the press just bags on the new Nintendo hardware at E3 this year.  Everyone going nuts over the 3DS last E3 is what led to Nintendo upping the cost.

I don't know. Nintendo just said 3DS isn't selling as well as they expected. That was their own fault. They overcharged, like you said, and to top it off, their launch line-up was pretty unspectacular. I know they apparently were trying to help 3rd parties which was awful nice of them, but really, when the best 3rd party game on 3DS is a port of a game that came out last year on home consoles, it's hard to justify that choice. In a perfect world, Nintendo will learn from its arrogance, hopefully sooner rather than later, and charge fairly for Cafe. They better. 3DS will recover; Ocarina of Time will see to that, but Nintendo doesn't have the luxury of making these kinds of mistakes in the home console market.

[Chozo Ghost]

The problem with #2 on Ian's list is that Nintendo has no direct control over 3rd parties. They can create incentives, but that's all they can do. I would like the 3rd party support to be there as much as he does or anyone does, but I won't hold it against them if it isn't there because time and time again the 3rd parties have shown that they will bend over backwards and go out of their way to NOT support Nintendo systems. This isn't Nintendo's fault (or at least not entirely), so I don't think its fair to blame them for that.

[Ian Sane]

The problem with #2 on Ian's list is that Nintendo has no direct control over 3rd parties.

It isn't exactly fair but that has been my beef with the last THREE Nintendo consoles.  Three generations and things still have not improved?  Sorry, I just don't feel like putting up with that ever again.  They've had 15 years to figure out how to solve this problem and frankly I don't feel they've ever put even the slightest effort into addressing it.
 
But then I'm confident that if Cafe provides no stupid restrictions that would prohibit multiplatform development that the third party support will improve to acceptable levels.  I think third parties want to put their games on ever platform they can and ignored the Wii entirely because Nintendo released a refurbished Gamecube.  If that sort of thing is not an issue next gen, and it shouldn't be, then things should be fine.

[NWR_insanolord]

As a multi-console owner, I won't be satisfied with Café just receiving the same games as the other consoles. I want third party exclusives, which Café won't get without moneyhats (which Nintendo won't do) or some kind of significant difference in hardware. Say what you will about the Wii's third party support, but it got a lot of interesting (at least in concept) titles because of the way Nintendo built it.

[Adrock]

I think third parties want to put their games on ever platform they can and ignored the Wii entirely because Nintendo released a refurbished Gamecube.  If that sort of thing is not an issue next gen, and it shouldn't be, then things should be fine.

Agreed for the most part. If 3rd parties could have ported from 360 to Wii, we would have been given most if not all of those games simply because of Nintendo's position in the market.

If Cafe is significantly more powerful than the current generation's HD consoles, we should be looking at straight ports of those games which don't really take advantage of the console's extra power, but I'd take those games anyway. Even though I own a PS3 and would have access to those games anyway, if I owned Cafe, I'd probably get the Cafe version simply because the performance of those games will ultimately decide future support. Eventually, 3rd parties would start developing Cafe specific games that take advantage of the hardware and innovative features.

[Kytim89]

Mass Effect 3 has been dalyed until the first quarter of 2012, so could it be a Wii 2 launch title? If so, I will take two of those games. With this game and the nexy GTA under its belt it could be a real badass of a console.
 
http://www.1up.com/news/mass-effect-3-release-delayed-212

[broodwars]

Mass Effect 3 has been dalyed until the first quarter of 2012, so could it be a Wii 2 launch title? If so, I will take two of those games. With this game and the nexy GTA under its belt it could be a real badass of a console.
 
http://www.1up.com/news/mass-effect-3-release-delayed-212

There's not a chance in Hell of Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii 2. There's just no point if you don't have experience with Mass Effects 1 or 2, and if you're strictly a Nintendo owner you haven't.  And Microsoft owns the rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never come to a Nintendo console even as part of a collection.  And by the time the Wii 2 and Mass Effect 3 come out, Mass Effect 2 will be too old to be financially viable to port.

[Chozo Ghost]

Mass Effect 3 has been dalyed until the first quarter of 2012, so could it be a Wii 2 launch title? If so, I will take two of those games. With this game and the nexy GTA under its belt it could be a real badass of a console.
 
http://www.1up.com/news/mass-effect-3-release-delayed-212

There's not a chance in Hell of Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii 2. There's just no point if you don't have experience with Mass Effects 1 or 2, and if you're strictly a Nintendo owner you haven't.  And Microsoft owns the rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never come to a Nintendo console even as part of a collection.  And by the time the Wii 2 and Mass Effect 3 come out, Mass Effect 2 will be too old to be financially viable to port.

That hasn't stopped Mass Effect 2 & 3 from coming to the PS3. Mass Effect 1 has not and likely will never come to PS3, but the others have/will. Why can't that happen with Cafe as well? Remember, Mass Effect 2 didn't come to PS3 until a FULL YEAR after its 360/PC debut.

[NWR_insanolord]

And most people would tell you that there's no point in starting with Mass Effect 2 on the PS3 either. And they're right. The only way to play Mass Effect is all three of them on the same system, with the same save file carried over.

[broodwars]

Mass Effect 3 has been dalyed until the first quarter of 2012, so could it be a Wii 2 launch title? If so, I will take two of those games. With this game and the nexy GTA under its belt it could be a real badass of a console.
 
http://www.1up.com/news/mass-effect-3-release-delayed-212

There's not a chance in Hell of Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii 2. There's just no point if you don't have experience with Mass Effects 1 or 2, and if you're strictly a Nintendo owner you haven't.  And Microsoft owns the rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never come to a Nintendo console even as part of a collection.  And by the time the Wii 2 and Mass Effect 3 come out, Mass Effect 2 will be too old to be financially viable to port.

That hasn't stopped Mass Effect 2 & 3 from coming to the PS3. Mass Effect 1 has not and likely will never come to PS3, but the others have/will. Why can't that happen with Cafe as well? Remember, Mass Effect 2 didn't come to PS3 until a FULL YEAR after its 360/PC debut.

Mass Effect 2 was brought over, though, within a year of the 360 version's release.  By the time the Wii 2 rolls around, Mass Effect 2 will be at least 2 if not 3 years old.  Anyone who cares about that game will have owned it at least once if not twice by that point.  And Mass Effect 3 is releasing on the PS3 day and date with the 360 version, something that would not happen on the Wii 2 and there wouldn't be any point to it anyway since the Wii 2 would likely not have Mass Effect 2.

Besides, Insanolord is quite correct.  I owned the 360 and PS3 versions of Mass Effect 2, and I reviewed both of them in our Reader Reviews thread.  The PS3 version is a much emptier experience compared to its original incarnation, partially due to the loss of Mass Effect 1 import data and partially due to spectacularly bad coding leading to crashes and massive clipping.  There is only one "correct" way to play the Mass Effect series, and it's the entire series on 360 or PC so you can have all the import data.  And given how much you know I love playing on PS3, that should give you some indication how inferior the experience is on PS3.  I don't even want to imagine entering the franchise on Wii 2 with the 3rd game and no Import data.

[Kytim89]

Mass Effect 3 has been dalyed until the first quarter of 2012, so could it be a Wii 2 launch title? If so, I will take two of those games. With this game and the nexy GTA under its belt it could be a real badass of a console.
 
http://www.1up.com/news/mass-effect-3-release-delayed-212

There's not a chance in Hell of Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii 2. There's just no point if you don't have experience with Mass Effects 1 or 2, and if you're strictly a Nintendo owner you haven't.  And Microsoft owns the rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never come to a Nintendo console even as part of a collection.  And by the time the Wii 2 and Mass Effect 3 come out, Mass Effect 2 will be too old to be financially viable to port.

You could say the same thing about what ever game Rockstar might be developing for the Wii 2, which very well could be the next GTA game. Keep in mind that the Wii is the only current generation system that I own right now, so one reason that I am looking forward to the Wii 2 is that I can finally own an HD system and a Nintendo system at the same time. i would much rather give my money to a third party collaborating with Nintendo at this point than Sony or Microsoft because I have grown fond of both Nintendo's development style and that of the developers on their system (a la Monster Hunter 3, NHM 2, etc).

[broodwars]

There's not a chance in Hell of Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii 2. There's just no point if you don't have experience with Mass Effects 1 or 2, and if you're strictly a Nintendo owner you haven't.  And Microsoft owns the rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never come to a Nintendo console even as part of a collection.  And by the time the Wii 2 and Mass Effect 3 come out, Mass Effect 2 will be too old to be financially viable to port.

You could say the same thing about what ever game Rockstar might be developing for the Wii 2, which very well could be the next GTA game.

No, I can't since not only do we not know what Rockstar is working on, but it's not likely to be a port of a game with an established continuity.  It's probably a port of L.A. Noire or something fairly standalone, not a port of an old game (or a port of a NEW game at the END of a continuity) where it is highly recommended that you play the previous games in the series to get the full impact of the story and import your own personal data.

That doesn't mean the Wii 2 can't see a NEW game in the Mass Effect series that tells a different story (Shepard's story will be told in ME 1-3).  I just don't think there's a chance at all in any of the Shepard games coming to the Wii 2.

[Adrock]

With 25GB of storage, BioWare could fit all 3 on a single Blu-Ray disc and release it as Mass Effect Trilogy......... Sorry.

[Kytim89]

With 25GB of storage, BioWare could fit all 3 on a single Blu-Ray disc and release it as Mass Effect Trilogy......... Sorry.

Nintendo could satisfy me solely on the porting of third party HD titles until the original titles for the Wii 2 are available for purchase. As silly as this sounds, I am not going to waste my money on the current HD consoles because I prefer to save my money for the next system from Nintendo.

[BlackNMild2k1]

So, tell me, why would 3rd parties complain about those things and not Nintendo imposing strict N64-esque cartridge policies on DS/3DS cards? Hint: there are no such policies currently in place. We live in the internet age. If Nintendo was jerking 3rd parties around like the old days, we would have heard about it. They'd still support the hardware, but they'd make their voices heard by leaking it to IGN or Kotaku because news outlets love juicy stories. Your fears that Nintendo will suddenly revert to Evil-Empire-Darth-Yamauchi-Run-Nintendo are baseless.

I think we're done here. I never said Nintendo would use cards; rather I said it seems like something they would do considering their displeasure with optical media. Do I really think they'll do it? I'm sure it's been tested in Kyoto. I'm leaning on them not switching to cards even though it totally fits their company culture. Nintendo has a habit of embodying "I play by my own rules, nobody else's, not even my own."

Ummm.... I never said that they would switch to N64-like iron fisted policies. my whole argument was that carts will always be more expensive (especially if you try to match the GB's) and 3rd parties will always prefer optical formats if available because of it.

It cost less to press a game on a Bluray disc than it does to print a DS cartridge. That may always be the case as BRD's are constantly getting cheaper and faster and therefore 3rd parties will likely always favor the optical disc over a cartridge of the same size.

Now we are done here.

[broodwars]

With 25GB of storage, BioWare could fit all 3 on a single Blu-Ray disc and release it as Mass Effect Trilogy......... Sorry.

No, they can't because of Microsoft's publishing rights to Mass Effect 1.  Besides, even if that wasn't an issue, that's a pretty tight fit on a 25 GB disc when you factor in the DLC (and projected DLC for #3).  And even if that wasn't an issue, anyone who cares about these games will already have them.  There would be little money to gain from Nintendo's casual crowd, who wouldn't buy the collection anyway.

[broodwars]

With 25GB of storage, BioWare could fit all 3 on a single Blu-Ray disc and release it as Mass Effect Trilogy......... Sorry.

Nintendo could satisfy me solely on the porting of third party HD titles until the original titles for the Wii 2 are available for purchase. As silly as this sounds, I am not going to waste my money on the current HD consoles because I prefer to save my money for the next system from Nintendo.

That is why you fail.  You can pick up a 360 and many of these games you pine for for pretty cheap these days.  I can understand if you have monetary problems and want to save for the next Nintendo console, but you shouldn't be wishing for old games on your new console just because you don't want to bother picking up a non-Nintendo console.

[Adrock]

Nintendo could satisfy me solely on the porting of third party HD titles until the original titles for the Wii 2 are available for purchase. As silly as this sounds, I am not going to waste my money on the current HD consoles because I prefer to save my money for the next system from Nintendo.

It's not really a waste of money if you get something out of it.

No, they can't because of Microsoft's publishing rights to Mass Effect 1.  Besides, even if that wasn't an issue, that's a pretty tight fit on a 25 GB disc when you factor in the DLC (and projected DLC for #3).

Gah... I was joking hence the exaggerated use of ellipses followed by "Sorry" referring to the drawn out debate I had with BlackNMild2k1... which by the way...

Ummm.... I never said that they would switch to N64-like iron fisted policies

The extra cost of actually pushing these games to 1080p and optimizing them to run off a cart that would likely cost whatever Nintendo feels they can get away with charging ($5-$10 a cart?) multiplied by 100,000 unit minimum order (just like they used to do back in the day) plus mandatory lead times on re-orders and all the other bullshit that comes along with 3rd parties having abandoned Nintendo when they last used carts leads to decreased 3rd party support and increased cost for everyone down the line which ends up costing me more to play the same games.

Really?

Again, sorry. I couldn't let that one go without a response.

[Kytim89]

With 25GB of storage, BioWare could fit all 3 on a single Blu-Ray disc and release it as Mass Effect Trilogy......... Sorry.

No, they can't because of Microsoft's publishing rights to Mass Effect 1.  Besides, even if that wasn't an issue, that's a pretty tight fit on a 25 GB disc when you factor in the DLC (and projected DLC for #3).

This is the very good reason as to why HDD support will be important to the longevity of the Wii 2. One thing that I was debating to myself the other day was whether or not Nintendo would have their own DLC for their franchises? In some way it makes sense for them to do it because they love making money off of our love for their IPs, but I was listening to the recent episode of Infendo and they talked about how Nintendo might avoid DLC in the form that other gaming companies are currently handling the business model. However, one way to appease to third parties is to provide a HDD for their system so that those developers can have as much DLC for thier games as they want and Nintendo themselves can put their own DLC out at thier own leasure.

[Adrock]

I don't think Nintendo will ever have DLC in their games. Or patches. They should allow 3rd parties to patch and DLC the **** out of their games though. Nintendo should be supporting them in every way Sony and Microsoft do in order to stay competitive.

[Kytim89]

I don't think Nintendo will ever have DLC in their games. Or patches. They should allow 3rd parties to patch and DLC the **** out of their games though. Nintendo should be supporting them in every way Sony and Microsoft do in order to stay competitive.

Having patches available for their games is important because they can tweek things that fell out of notice in development. Look at the issue surrounding Other M where you had to mail in an SD card with your save data to rectify the situation. This problem could have been easily fixed had the Nintendo been able to patch the system via a firmware update.