Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[BranDonk Kong]

You're talking graphics, correct? If that's the case, you would be incorrect. The difference typically is negligible, but any game that's on both consoles always looks better on the 360 - not including games where there is a huge time lapse between releases. The PS3 is definitely a more powerful machine overall, but as far as visuals, 360 always wins.

[Shorty McNostril]

That's what I always find funny.  All the Sony fanboys gloating about the PS3 spec sheet.  Sure, the numbers are bigger, no arguments there.  But when push comes to shove, the numbers are meaningless.  It's the presentation that holds the weight.  If the 360 can display pretty much identical graphics as the PS3, then Microsoft come out on top because they can do it on "weaker" hardware.  Sony needs to use the big flash expensive stuff to achieve the same result.

[broodwars]

You're talking graphics, correct? If that's the case, you would be incorrect. The difference typically is negligible, but any game that's on both consoles always looks better on the 360 - not including games where there is a huge time lapse between releases. The PS3 is definitely a more powerful machine overall, but as far as visuals, 360 always wins.

Final Fantasy XIII would beg to disagree, and that game was released on both consoles at the same time in North America.  The problem is that the 360 is usually the lead platform (since that's where the larger sales tend to be), and the PS3 version is ported from that engine.  Without optimizing for what the PS3 can do, that version of the game suffers.  Games created on both platforms in tandem tend to be more or less equal technically (such as games from EA like Dead Space 2 or the EA SPORTS line).

[Caliban]

PS3 CPU Vs X360 CPU... PS3 wins. The Cell is a beast, believe it.

PS3 GPU Vs X360 GPU... X360 wins. Nvidia's gpu isn't that great.

In the end what matters is developer capability. Also a lot of developers just don't want, or won't be funded to do a decent port for the PS3. That, and developing for the X360 is pretty much PC development which makes it a lot easier for the devs.

[Kytim89]

I agree with this article except for the part about the Wii 2 having a blu ray drive:
 
http://n4g.com/user/blogpost/abizzel1/516249
 
 

[BlackNMild2k1]

I agree with this article except for the part about the Wii 2 having a blu ray drive:
 
http://n4g.com/user/blogpost/abizzel1/516249
 

I don't agree with most things in that article.

CPU: Custom 3.2 Ghz Triple Core CPU
GPU: Custom ATI 512MB GPU @ 600 - 700mhz
RAM: 1GB of DDR3 1333 RAM
HDD: 120GB HDD @ 7200
Rest:1080p, 3D display, 7.1 Dolby, etc...

3.2Ghz TriCore CPU - maybe
512MB ATi GPU - maybe
1GB of DDR3 RAM - not gonna happen, especially not with DDR3. Nintendo will use less RAM but much faster RAM (512MB mix of 1T-SRAM and XDR2  would be good)
120GB HDD - Also not gonna happen; I'd hope for maybe 64GB of SSD instead (small in size, fast & silent)
Bluray Drive - Don't see it happening. I would hope for a modified drive that allows for DVD and HVD, but I don't know what is up with HVD right now*.
1080p - definitely and already confirmed
3D Display - Wut? it won't come with a display and even the GC is capable of outputting 3D.
7.1 - probably not - 5.1 is a given though. 7.1 is only used by audio enthusiast and Nintendo is not gonna cater to them and pass the cost onto everyone else.


*HVD was supposed to hit the market back in 2007 but never really materialized in any consumer way. There is a HVD board that Sony is also a part of and then there is InPhase which shares a patent on some alternative HVD process with Nintendo. InPhase was supposed to release a product back in 2008, but that was the last I've heard of it. I've heard of modified Bluray lasers that allow HVD to be read, but I honestly couldn't find any info to support that.

[Kytim89]

I agree with this article except for the part about the Wii 2 having a blu ray drive:
 
http://n4g.com/user/blogpost/abizzel1/516249
 

I don't agree with most things in that article.

CPU: Custom 3.2 Ghz Triple Core CPU
GPU: Custom ATI 512MB GPU @ 600 - 700mhz
RAM: 1GB of DDR3 1333 RAM
HDD: 120GB HDD @ 7200
Rest:1080p, 3D display, 7.1 Dolby, etc...

3.2Ghz TriCore CPU - maybe
512MB ATi GPU - maybe
1GB of DDR3 RAM - not gonna happen, especially not with DDR3. Nintendo will use less RAM but much faster RAM (512MB mix of 1T-SRAM and XDR2  would be good)
120GB HDD - Also not gonna happen; I'd hope for maybe 64GB of SSD instead (small in size, fast & silent)
1080p - definitely and already confirmed
3D Display - Wut? it won't come with a display and even the GC is capable of outputting 3D.
7.1 - probably not - 5.1 is a given though. 7.1 is only used by audio enthusiast and Nintendo is not gonna cater to them and pass the cost onto everyone else.

I do not know that much about specs, but I imagine the Wii 2 having powerful components while at the same time being cheaper and more efficient than the 360, but not as powerful as the PS3. Another thing, where does everyone get the idea of the Wii 2 having a blu ray player? Even I am not excepting the idea of Nintendo using that format because they would have to pay a fee and cater to Sony.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I've heard people talking that there are HVD players that use modified Bluray lasers or very similar to Bluray drives and maybe that is where all this talk of Nintendo using BRD is coming from. I haven't been able to find any info on any such drives (I did a brief search), but that could be the reason.

[TJ Spyke]

Nintendo will never use Blu-ray Discs though. At most, they will use a custom disc that is the same size as BD (the same way the Wii Optical Disc holds the same amount of data as a DVD, but is not a DVD).

[Kytim89]

I've heard people talking that there are HVD players that use modified Bluray lasers or very similar to Bluray drives and maybe that is where all this talk of Nintendo using BRD is coming from. I haven't been able to find any info on any such drives (I did a brief search), but that could be the reason.

GE just unveiled a HVD that can hold up to a maximum of 500 GBs. That is a massive leap over blu ray discs. Of course I do not see Nintendo going that high in storage, but a game like MGS 4 could easily exist on the console. Also, unlimited storage is one feather that third parties will be attracted to the Wii 2. Although I read some where that a HVD laser can be modified to play blu ray movies.

[BlackNMild2k1]

From almost 2 years ago
[quote - 4/2009]
General Electric researchers announced today that the company has made a breakthrough in the development of microholographic storage discs for mainstream use. Using G.E.'s current technology, a single holographic disc could ostensibly hold 500 gigabytes of data -- about 100 times the size of a standard DVD -- and still be readable. Better still, these discs should be commercially viable when they're introduced in 2011 or 2012, coming in at around 10 cents per gigabyte (a pittance compared to Blu-ray's initial price of $1 per gigabyte).[/quote]

Just in time for Wii2 late 2011/2012

but in all seriousness, $0.10 per GB x 500GB = $50 a disc
I don't see that being reasonable even if it was a mini-HVD coming in at around 125GB and $10 a disc.
BRD are about $1.60ea for blank media (4x in a 15 pak)

also GE isn't on the HVD collective that Sony is(according to wiki), so I wonder which standard this product would go by.

and a full HVD format probably won't be seen until the industry is ready to bring 4k home, and I don't see that happening anytime soon considering most theaters probably haven't even gotten on board yet and studios probably aren't shooting in it yet either.

SO we still have no idea what is up with HVD, nor do we have any idea what is up with the InPhase/Nintendo standard alternative is either.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't think TV's will ever support 4000 resolution like theatres because only gullible people would believe it. You basically need to have a theatre sized screen to notice it. Even if you have a 72 inch screen, you will not notice the difference between, for example, a TV with a screen resolution of 3000 and one with 4000. I don't see TV's ever getting much higher than 1080p, it would just be a waste really.

As for HVD, I don't see Nintendo going with something so experimental and new like that.

[Kytim89]

From almost 2 years ago
[quote - 4/2009]
General Electric researchers announced today that the company has made a breakthrough in the development of microholographic storage discs for mainstream use. Using G.E.'s current technology, a single holographic disc could ostensibly hold 500 gigabytes of data -- about 100 times the size of a standard DVD -- and still be readable. Better still, these discs should be commercially viable when they're introduced in 2011 or 2012, coming in at around 10 cents per gigabyte (a pittance compared to Blu-ray's initial price of $1 per gigabyte).

Just in time for Wii2 late 2011/2012

but in all seriousness, $0.10 per GB x 500GB = $50 a disc
I don't see that being reasonable even if it was a mini-HVD coming in at around 125GB and $10 a disc.

also GE isn't on the HVD collective that Sony is(according to wiki), so I wonder which standard this product would go by.

and a full HVD format probably won't be seen until the industry is ready to bring 4k home, and I don't see that happening anytime soon considering most theaters probably haven't even gotten on board yet and studios probably aren't shooting in it yet either.

SO we still have no idea what is up with HVD, nor do we have any idea what is up with the InPhase/Nintendo standard alternative is either.
[/quote]
 
The most storage I see a Wii 2 game having is 15 to 20 GBs or more if a third party decides to have more. If the HVD discs cost ten cents per unit then there is no reason for why it should be expensive.
 
Honestly, storage medium is one reason why I am very fascinated with what the Wii 2 will offer. I do not see them retaining their current DVD setup, and for a long time I thought Nintendo would adopt HD-DVD simply because it might be cheap for them and harder to pirate (not so much). Then I realized that they could modfiy the current DVD to hold a maximum of about 15 to 25 GB a piece. Then I though that perhaps Nintendo should return to cartridges for their home console but realized that it might not be cost effective to have large capacity cartridges.
 
http://www.tech-faq.com/hvd.html

[BlackNMild2k1]

That link has to be like 5-6 years old

and they can't just make a HVD with the exact amount of storage they need, multiply that times $0.10, write it up, bill it and call it a day. It doesn't work like that.

For Example; Just because SMG uses 1GB of space, they still press it on a 4.7GB DVD, because the disc cost the same regardless of how much of the space you use. It doesn't mean that you have to use all the space, but the discs is pressed separate from the burning process, so individual disc are not pressed to accommodate the specific needs of a certain piece of data that is being burned to it.


But then again, we don't know what Nintendo's HVD format even could be, so there is no telling if it's a spinning disc or a gamecard of some sort and how much either of those will cost.

[BranDonk Kong]

Final Fantasy XIII would beg to disagree, and that game was released on both consoles at the same time in North America.  The problem is that the 360 is usually the lead platform (since that's where the larger sales tend to be), and the PS3 version is ported from that engine.  Without optimizing for what the PS3 can do, that version of the game suffers.  Games created on both platforms in tandem tend to be more or less equal technically (such as games from EA like Dead Space 2 or the EA SPORTS line).

That's because Square Enix and Sony have been in bed together ever since Square broke up with Nintendo.

Nintendo will never use Blu-ray Discs though. At most, they will use a custom disc that is the same size as BD (the same way the Wii Optical Disc holds the same amount of data as a DVD, but is not a DVD).

We've been through this - Wii games are DVDs. They hold the same amount of data because they are the same thing. File system is different, everything's encrypted. Disc is a DVD.

[Nemo]

The important difference between Wii discs/disc drives and DVDs/DVD drives is that Nintendo doesn't have to pay a fee to anyone to use their format. Even though, in all other practical ways, Wii discs are DVDs.

[TJ Spyke]

Nintendo will never use Blu-ray Discs though. At most, they will use a custom disc that is the same size as BD (the same way the Wii Optical Disc holds the same amount of data as a DVD, but is not a DVD).

We've been through this - Wii games are DVDs. They hold the same amount of data because they are the same thing. File system is different, everything's encrypted. Disc is a DVD.

The FACT is that you are wrong. They hold the same amount of data, but are not the same. Xbox 360 discs are DVDs, PlayStation 3 discs are Blu-ray Discs, Wii discs are a propriety format that just shares the same data size as DVDs. You can feel differently, but you are wrong.

[Mop it up]

The fact that newer Wii drives can no longer read DVD movies or Wii games burned onto DVDs leads me to believe the discs are something different than DVDs, but I guess there's no way to know for sure one way or the other.

[Kytim89]

The fact that newer Wii drives can no longer read DVD movies or Wii games burned onto DVDs leads me to believe the discs are something different than DVDs, but I guess there's no way to know for sure one way or the other.

This makes me beg the question as to whether Nintendo is capable of just modifying a newer form of the DVD they are using for the Wii and carry it over to the succeeding console. Regardless of what kind of medium they choose, what ever cripples piracy the best is what they will use.

[Stogi]

Nintendo, post-n64, will always go for security first, then cheapness a close second. That's why it's always been some version of proprietary disc. While I love the thought of a flash-based card, I doubt Nintendo would find it cost effective. But who knows, Nintendo uses SD cards more than any other company I know of (besides those who make them). So if they came up to whatever company (kingston or what have you) with a proposition, I think that company would be stupid not to listen.

But there's one major flaw to using cards. SD card security isn't that amazing. Fake DS games have flooded eBay. It's been rampant. The only reason they are used is because they don't have any moving parts which save on battery life and makes the system less prone to breaking.

That makes me think they will go with a proprietary disc again. It's hard to say if they'll use HVD since we still know barely anything about it (which honestly might be reason to think they are using it). If I had to place my chips on something, it would be them using something that isn't HVD or SD cards. Some form of proprietary DVD is a safe bet.

[BranDonk Kong]

Nintendo will never use Blu-ray Discs though. At most, they will use a custom disc that is the same size as BD (the same way the Wii Optical Disc holds the same amount of data as a DVD, but is not a DVD).

We've been through this - Wii games are DVDs. They hold the same amount of data because they are the same thing. File system is different, everything's encrypted. Disc is a DVD.

The FACT is that you are wrong. They hold the same amount of data, but are not the same. Xbox 360 discs are DVDs, PlayStation 3 discs are Blu-ray Discs, Wii discs are a propriety format that just shares the same data size as DVDs. You can feel differently, but you are wrong.

Wrong. You're just wrong. No need to argue, just do some searching on the internet. The Wii has a single laser diode, and that laser reads DVDs...and nothing else but DVDs. Just because you can't put it in your computer (though in some you can...and this is in a DVD-ROM, not a Wii Optical Disc-ROM, because those do not exist) and read it doesn't mean it's not a DVD. It is a DVD.

The fact that newer Wii drives can no longer read DVD movies or Wii games burned onto DVDs leads me to believe the discs are something different than DVDs, but I guess there's no way to know for sure one way or the other.

This is because of the software and the hardware being changed. The new Wiis cannot read DVD-R discs (hardware change), and the code that lets you re-enable DVD playback (remember, it was left in the system software, but basically tucked away) is no longer present either (software change).

[TJ Spyke]

Believe whatever you want Brandogg, you obviously will not believe anyone who disagrees with you.Wii discs are not DVDs, it's as simple as that.

[BranDonk Kong]

It's not as simple as that. I used to think that Wiis used their own special media (as in a completely different physical disc), and that GameCube discs were written and spun backwards just like everyone else on the internet, but then i did some research. I will disagree with anyone who says that Wii discs are not DVDs though. Why would the Wii read DVDs (and nothing but DVDs) if Wii games were anything but...DVDs? The new Wii hardware (specifically the drive they use now) explicitly blocks anything but retail Wii and GameCube discs from loading, so DVD movie playback is no longer possible. You can, however, swap in an older model DVD-ROM and regain DVD-R disc (for backups) playback. Not sure if movies will work using this method, but my instincts say yes. If I ever come across a black Wii I'll answer that question.

[ThePerm]

they're dvds but they don't use a FAT file system. They use a proprietary file system so your computer has no idea what to do with them...as far as i know

[that Baby guy]

It's not as simple as that. I used to think that Wiis used their own special media (as in a completely different physical disc), and that GameCube discs were written and spun backwards just like everyone else on the internet, but then i did some research. I will disagree with anyone who says that Wii discs are not DVDs though. Why would the Wii read DVDs (and nothing but DVDs) if Wii games were anything but...DVDs? The new Wii hardware (specifically the drive they use now) explicitly blocks anything but retail Wii and GameCube discs from loading, so DVD movie playback is no longer possible. You can, however, swap in an older model DVD-ROM and regain DVD-R disc (for backups) playback. Not sure if movies will work using this method, but my instincts say yes. If I ever come across a black Wii I'll answer that question.

And you can direct the Wii to read hard drives and the SD card slot in order to play games, too.  Turns out when you modify a Wii, it can do things an unmodified Wii can't typically do.

The point is, if it were as simple as a change in software, there would be something out there for homebrew that could allow users to alter the Wii's firmware to make it play DVDs.  As it stands, while Wii Optical Discs are entirely similar to DVDs, they are not one and the same, even if just because of the burst cutting print on a Wii Disc.  It's likely there's more to it than that burst cut, or new Wiis would be able to play DVDs like older Wiis can.