Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Mop it up]

Smash Brothers doesn't really have punches and kicks though, at least in the traditional sense. It simply has directional attacks. You hold forward and press a button to attack forward, you use up to attack up, and down to attack down. Some of those attacks are punches, some are kicks, some are headbutts, some are tail whips; all unimportant. Simple and easy to grasp. While adding in a button wouldn't suddenly make it complex, it would make it less accessible than it currently is, and that would take away from its appeal. I'm sure all of us would be able to handle it easily, but people who don't play games often would be turned away by it. Smash Brothers needs to keep its pick-up-and-play style, and I feel adding anything to the current control setup would ruin it.

[Adrock]

I don't want a level editor I want a great set of designed levels.

Since when were they mutually exclusive?

Brawl's stage editor was programmed in Fail++. The sets were drab and plain, the options quite limited. When it was decided not to allow players to design a Zelda stage or a Mario Stage, a Kirby stage etc. with series specific pieces, they took away the charm of Smash Bros. It's a celebration of all these different characters.... kicking the crap out of each other in worlds they didn't belong in yet still felt like they did. Fighting on a bunch of brown and gray boxes was BORING. For a stage editor to succeed and be interesting and engaging, it almost has to be a game in and of itself. The developers have to give players to tools to create something that almost looks professional, but above all, it has to be fun.

I'm with Mop it up on nixing the single player filler to focus on multiplayer (more characters, stages, items, options etc.) though I'd still like to see a stage editor assuming it's robust enough to make it worthwhile.

[Spak-Spang]

I don't want a level editor I want a great set of designed levels.

Since when were they mutually exclusive?

Brawl's stage editor was programmed in Fail++. The sets were drab and plain, the options quite limited. When it was decided not to allow players to design a Zelda stage or a Mario Stage, a Kirby stage etc. with series specific pieces, they took away the charm of Smash Bros. It's a celebration of all these different characters.... kicking the crap out of each other in worlds they didn't belong in yet still felt like they did. Fighting on a bunch of brown and gray boxes was BORING. For a stage editor to succeed and be interesting and engaging, it almost has to be a game in and of itself. The developers have to give players to tools to create something that almost looks professional, but above all, it has to be fun.

I'm with Mop it up on nixing the single player filler to focus on multiplayer (more characters, stages, items, options etc.) though I'd still like to see a stage editor assuming it's robust enough to make it worthwhile.

That is fair.  And actually that is my complaint about Subspace Embassessy.  They took all the Nintendo charm and threw it out the window for crappy bosses and enemies that had little to nothing to do with Nintendo.  It was lame. 

I wanted to run Mario through Hyrule, but I couldn't.  Brawl was a great game...but there are so many areas of obvious failure, that it makes me wish they had better producer to reign in the direction more. 

[UncleBob]

They really just need to make a Captain N game...

[EasyCure]

They really just need to make a Captain N game...

THIS

[Retro Deckades]

They really just need to make a Captain N game...

THIS

As long as they clean up the character design. Otherwise, no thank you.

[ThePerm]

i think DIC has the rights to Captain N

[UncleBob]

i think DIC has the rights to Captain N

Possible, but the Captain N design was based off of Captain Nintendo, created by/for Nintendo Power - so if they can't use Captain N himself, they can use Captain Nintendo.

[Mop it up]

They need to make a game with Nester. A real one, not one like that bland Virtual Boy game that made no sense. In fact, Nester would be an awesome character for Super Smash Brothers.

[TJ Spyke]

i think DIC has the rights to Captain N

Possible, but the Captain N design was based off of Captain Nintendo, created by/for Nintendo Power - so if they can't use Captain N himself, they can use Captain Nintendo.

Correct. DiC Entertainment owns the rights to the show. I am not sure about the character of Captain N, but they could just do what you suggested and do Captain Nintendo instead. Please don't make Mother Brain a southerner, make Simon Belmont not be a egotistical scaredy-cat, etc. Oh, and stop referring to game names as locations (there is no place called "Metroid").

[EasyCure]

i think DIC has the rights to Captain N

Possible, but the Captain N design was based off of Captain Nintendo, created by/for Nintendo Power - so if they can't use Captain N himself, they can use Captain Nintendo.

Correct. DiC Entertainment owns the rights to the show. I am not sure about the character of Captain N, but they could just do what you suggested and do Captain Nintendo instead. Please don't make Mother Brain a southerner, make Simon Belmont not be a egotistical scaredy-cat, etc. Oh, and stop referring to game names as locations (there is no place called "Metroid").

eh.. I guess that'll do.. If we can get Megaman back in, can he still say "MEGA MEGA"?

[Stratos]

i think DIC has the rights to Captain N

Possible, but the Captain N design was based off of Captain Nintendo, created by/for Nintendo Power - so if they can't use Captain N himself, they can use Captain Nintendo.

Correct. DiC Entertainment owns the rights to the show. I am not sure about the character of Captain N, but they could just do what you suggested and do Captain Nintendo instead. Please don't make Mother Brain a southerner, make Simon Belmont not be a egotistical scaredy-cat, etc. Oh, and stop referring to game names as locations (there is no place called "Metroid").

eh.. I guess that'll do.. If we can get Megaman back in, can he still say "MEGA MEGA"?

I swear he's like a Pokemon: MEGA MEGA MAN MAN MEGA MEG MEG MEGAMAN

[Mop it up]

How have I not seen this Captain N cartoon? It sounds so bad, like the Power Glove kind of bad. I'm going to have to look this up.

[ThePerm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8tF8sbAP0

[Caterkiller]

Speaking of Smash Bros. Sakurai say's Melee was too difficult.

Masahiro Sakurai, creator of Super Smash Bros. Melee, has claimed that the title was too difficult.

The Gamecube iteration of the Super Smash Bros. series, Super Smash Bros. Melee, has been labelled as too difficult by its own creator. Masahiro Sakurai, in an interview with Famitsu that has been translated by 1UP, claims that the game was not only "hardcore-exclusive" but also "extremely gruelling" to make.

In spite of the game's success, selling over seven million copies, Masahiro Sakurai has stated, "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years, but why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then?" The creator seems to have realised what he believes to have been an error and tried to make the Wii's title Brawl to be more accessible.

The development of the game itself was just as difficult according to Masahiro Sakurai. He worked flat-out on the game out of sheer determination to make it the best he could. If another Super Smash Bros. title was made he promises it will be more accessible than Melee.


"I worked on that game for 13 months straight, after all, without a single Sunday or holiday off that whole time. During parts of it, I was living a really destructive lifestyle -- I'd work for over 40 hours in a row, then go back home to sleep for four...My staff was raring to go, and we plunged in full-tilt from the start. I pushed myself beyond any limit I could think of because I doubted I'd ever have this sheer amount of work in my hands ever again."

http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=14732

[Chozo Ghost]

Oh, and stop referring to game names as locations (there is no place called "Metroid").

I think they stopped doing that a couple decades ago...

[Chozo Ghost]

How have I not seen this Captain N cartoon? It sounds so bad, like the Power Glove kind of bad. I'm going to have to look this up.

If you like the Power Glove, check out the movie "The Wizard". It was the best 2 hours of Nintendo propaganda ever made.

[Ian Sane]

So Brawl was... CASUALIZED?!!

I think I get why I like Melee more.  What Nintendo fails to realize is that with games that require skill the player feels more in control.  You win or lose based on YOU.  When a game is made more accessible that control can be taken away.  You can win or lose based on random power-ups and such (Mario Kart Wii being a huge offender in this) or you win with no effort because it's too easy, so you don't really feel like you had an effect on the outcome.

I also like hardcore fighting games.  I don't play in tournaments and I'm not very good at them but I like playing them with people who are at the same skill level.  SSB being the anti-hardcore fighting game is partially why I originally wasn't interested in it.  Melee won we over and that's probably because it betrayed the original anti-hardcore concept in the first place.

What really worked for me with Melee is that it was challenging at times but not overwhelming.  Sometimes a game is hard and it feels like it's screwing you.  Sometimes it feels like a game is hard entirely because of a bunch of unfair bullshit.  But Melee was one of the thoes games where when I failed it felt like I just needed to practice more or come up with a new strategy.  It felt like the challenge was fair and balanced.  I love it when a game works like that.  That's what I want out of a new SSB or, hell, any new Nintendo game.

[broodwars]

Meh, personally I liked Brawl just fine.  The only thing I thought Melee had over it was a better selection of stages.  Smash Bros. is a party fighting game based upon escalating chaos, and IMO anyone who plays it "seriously" (as in the people who only play Final Destination with items turned off) are really ignoring the point of the game.  As for the Power-ups, Smash Bros. isn't like Mario Kart.  The items randomly fall wherever on the stage, rather than "randomly" given to you depending on your position in the race.  Anyone has an equal shot at grabbing any power-up that comes down, though where you're standing on the stage gives you an advantage.  And even once you get the items, you still have to use them correctly.  Even the Final Smashes can be avoided or minimized in some cases.

[Adrock]

One of the reasons Wii Sports worked was because Nintendo didn't throw Mario in there when they just as easily could have. Nintendo would have had a harder time reaching casual gamers if they marketed Wii Sports with the most recognizable face in video games. I consider almost every Nintendo franchise not Wii-branded (Sports, Fit, Music etc.) to be "core" IPs. That said, Smash Bros. is a hardcore series. When you throw in a bunch of gaming characters into one video game, you already relinquish a great deal of accessibility to the general population. Casual gamers are already turned off because, in their minds, these are characters they've already avoided because video games just aren't their thing. Fair enough. In that sense, I completely disagree with Sakurai's view of Melee.

However, I do believe part of what makes Smash Bros. great is its accessibility. It's far more accessible to core gamers who aren't versed in fighting games. I flat-out suck at traditional fighting games. I like them, but I just can't get the hang of them. I love Smash Bros. though and I can find a certain level of success playing it. I don't actually consider Brawl to be more accessible or easier than Melee, just slower which makes it a different playing game rather than one casuals may necessarily enjoy more. Additionally, some of that accessibility, playability and fun is lost when the gameplay is so unbalanced. You can't just pick any character and have a fair or close to fair chance of succeeding which not only makes the game less fun, but makes the game worse overall.

Understanding your audience is key. Nintendo will probably never get the vast majority of casual gamers to ever care about Mario, Samus, or Link. They don't have to either. Continue making games casual gamers and core gamers alike can enjoy like Wii Sports, but stop trying so hard to convince casual gamers to like hardcore games. They won't and those core games suffer because the development lacked focus.

[Mop it up]

It's certainly disappointing to hear the creator say something like that. I felt that Melee and the Nintendo 64 game had a near-perfect balance of skill and randomness, so that the game was easy to pick-up-and-play, and there was still a chance anyone could win, but it was also possible and rewarding to learn techniques and develop skill. Brawl has the wrong idea of accessibility by adding in way too many random elements, most notably the random tripping, and its items and stage hazards are way too powerful. It's kind of funny, but no one I know likes Brawl because there's way too much stuff happening and it's way too random, but then I show them Melee and most can pick it up pretty easily. So I'd argue that Brawl actually became less accessible due to trying too hard to be wild and crazy.

I'm not saying Melee was a near-perfect game itself, it has numerous flaws that I wouldn't ignore in a critique, but Brawl fixed none of them and added in even more problems.

[TJ Spyke]

Brawl and Melee were both great. As for Melee being hardcore, I disagree. The only part that I thought was too hard were a couple of the Events (defeating Giga Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf was insanely hard).

[ThePerm]

so uh...next soul calibur will be announced with the next system ?

[Adrock]

(defeating Giga Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf was insanely hard)

Good Lord, that event was one never-ending facepalm. I remember beating that the first time spamming Roy's charge B move. I was lucky if Giga Bowser slipped off then got caught under the "lip" of Final Destination and couldn't jump back onto the stage. The hours wasted on "The Showdown" have resulted in the first and only time a video game made me curl up into the fetal position and weep like a 4 year old girl....

so uh...next soul calibur will be announced with the next system : ?

Considering the miracles Nintendo pulled off with 3DS, I'd expect Soulcalibur returning to Nintendo hardware at some point in the future and nothing like the abortion that Legends was. I mean, Namco made Broken Destiny specifically for PSP so I don't think, at the very least, a 3DS version based on the inevitable Soulcalibur V is terribly farfetch'd.....

[Mop it up]

(defeating Giga Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf was insanely hard).

At least Giga Bowser had the weight of normal Bowser (or maybe lighter) instead of his regular Adventure Mode weight, meaning he isn't a stone brick until you get him above 300%.

Did anyone beat this event without losing a life?