Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Kytim89]

Same thing. In fact, I bet a port of Dolphin (GameCube/Wii emulator, open source) for PS3 won't be *too* far off, especially now that Move has been released.

What I meant was would this chip help improve software emulation on the Wii 2 in the form of Virtual Console? Would help eleviate any stress that the current Wii might be suffering dues to emulation.
 
This also adds credens to my theory that the Wii 2 will put Gamecube BC onto the Virtual Console, but I am not sure about the Wii. The Wii 2 will most likely play Wii game discs, but emulate everything else. However, this does not make sense because if the console can read Wii discs then it should be able to do the same with Gamecube, right?

[BlackNMild2k1]

If the (hypothetical) Wii2 PowerCell chip can perfectly emulate the Wii/GC 100%, then what do you think it will be able to do for an N64, Sega Genesis, etc etc. if the Wii is powerful enough to emulate those systems now?

[Kytim89]

If the (hypothetical) Wii2 PowerCell chip can perfectly emulate the Wii/GC 100%, then what do you think it will be able to do for an N64, Sega Genesis, etc etc. if the Wii is powerful enough to emulate those systems now?

Could console such as the Dreamcast and modified Saturn games be emulated with this chip?

[BranDonk Kong]

I don't know what you mean by "modified Saturn games," but my 5+ year old PC (it has an Athlon X2 6000+, but it had a 4200+ in it a while back) with a shitty video card can play anything on NullDC (Dreamcast emulator) at full speed. Saturn is a little bit different because it didn't have a GPU, it had 2 CPUs, so it's pretty taxing. When you have the official docs, and people getting paid to code the emulators though, you can have much better results.

[Kytim89]

I don't know what you mean by "modified Saturn games," but my 5+ year old PC (it has an Athlon X2 6000+, but it had a 4200+ in it a while back) with a shitty video card can play anything on NullDC (Dreamcast emulator) at full speed. Saturn is a little bit different because it didn't have a GPU, it had 2 CPUs, so it's pretty taxing. When you have the official docs, and people getting paid to code the emulators though, you can have much better results.

What I meant by "modified Saturn games" is that Radiant Silvergun port to XBLA. I understand the problems with Saturn emulation, but they must have modified that game to run on XBLA. I abologize for not being explicit because it has been a long day for me today. 

[Chozo Ghost]

It would probably be more economical to just remake/port old Saturn games to current hardware than to find a way to emulate them. Sega pretty much washed their hands of the Saturn hardware, so documentation about it these days doesn't really exist. Even if it did, it was an incredibly complicated system in its own time, and that was one of the main reasons for its demise.

[Kytim89]

It would probably be more economical to just remake/port old Saturn games to current hardware than to find a way to emulate them. Sega pretty much washed their hands of the Saturn hardware, so documentation about it these days doesn't really exist. Even if it did, it was an incredibly complicated system in its own time, and that was one of the main reasons for its demise.

This is the last time that I mention Saturn emulation for a while, so here is my idea on how it could be done. Let's assume, hypothetically, that the Wii 2 can emulate the Gamecube, but can also read its discs along with those of the Wii. All SEGA woul dhave to do is convert the code of Saturn games into Gamecube in a similar way they did with Ikaruga for the Gamecube. Of course they would not have to spend the money on discs and all they would have to do is slap a Saturn logo onto the VC service.

[ThePerm]

this conversation again....

generally on Dreamcast there is a better sequel to every Saturn game. 

[Chozo Ghost]

It would probably be more economical to just remake/port old Saturn games to current hardware than to find a way to emulate them. Sega pretty much washed their hands of the Saturn hardware, so documentation about it these days doesn't really exist. Even if it did, it was an incredibly complicated system in its own time, and that was one of the main reasons for its demise.

This is the last time that I mention Saturn emulation for a while, so here is my idea on how it could be done. Let's assume, hypothetically, that the Wii 2 can emulate the Gamecube, but can also read its discs along with those of the Wii. All SEGA woul dhave to do is convert the code of Saturn games into Gamecube in a similar way they did with Ikaruga for the Gamecube. Of course they would not have to spend the money on discs and all they would have to do is slap a Saturn logo onto the VC service.

Ugh. If you're going to remake an old game for the Wii2 then remake it for the Wii2. Don't remake it as a GC game. If its going to be remade it might as well take advantage of the superior graphics, motion controls, etc.

generally on Dreamcast there is a better sequel to every Saturn game. 

What he said.

[BranDonk Kong]

It would probably be more economical to just remake/port old Saturn games to current hardware than to find a way to emulate them. Sega pretty much washed their hands of the Saturn hardware, so documentation about it these days doesn't really exist. Even if it did, it was an incredibly complicated system in its own time, and that was one of the main reasons for its demise.

This is the last time that I mention Saturn emulation for a while, so here is my idea on how it could be done. Let's assume, hypothetically, that the Wii 2 can emulate the Gamecube, but can also read its discs along with those of the Wii. All SEGA woul dhave to do is convert the code of Saturn games into Gamecube in a similar way they did with Ikaruga for the Gamecube. Of course they would not have to spend the money on discs and all they would have to do is slap a Saturn logo onto the VC service.

That's called porting...and that was done by Treasure, not SEGA. It would have to be the developer that does something like that, not the hardware manufacturer, they don't have the source code for the game, and it would be illegal.

Anyway, Saturn emulation is more than possible, and like I said, people getting paid to do it that have access to the needed resources could make it happen. There was a leaked Saturn emulator for the PC (GiriGiri it was renamed) that worked quite nicely. There was a leaked DS emulator (before the DS was even released, I believe) too, called EnSata.

[Kytim89]

I just want to be to have easy access to all the rare(no pun intended : ) that are the Saturn without having to shell out large amounts of cash. As for the ports to Gamecube, what I meant was that it might be easier for the Wii 2 to emulate the Gamecube version of Ikaruga then the Saturn, right? Just port the games to work in a GC and then emulate the code. But I have said enough about this topic.

[BranDonk Kong]

The main problem is that this thread has been completely derailed. The only "rumor" that I've seen here in a long time is the Cell processor stuff.

[Kytim89]

The main problem is that this thread has been completely derailed. The only "rumor" that I've seen here in a long time is the Cell processor stuff.

The way it should be is that a rumor is mentioned on this thread and then everyone is allowed to comment on how that rumor relates to the game industry.

[Chozo Ghost]

The main problem is that this thread has been completely derailed. The only "rumor" that I've seen here in a long time is the Cell processor stuff.

The way it should be is that a rumor is mentioned on this thread and then everyone is allowed to comment on how that rumor relates to the game industry.

Alright, well following that rule how does Saturn emulation have anything at all to do with the rumor of a Cell processor?

[nickmitch]

Through Kytim89's obsession with Saturn emulation.

[BlackNMild2k1]

for those that were wondering what Nintendo's next system could use for storage next gen;
http://gadgets.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-HD-NVD-Blu-ray-Killer-Wannabe-Format-Launched-1069-01.html

same assembly line as DVD but hold 12GB on a single layer.

or something like this;
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/25/red-blows-away-small-room-of-videophiles-with-4k-red-ray-footage/

I don't know too many details other than extremely impressive compression on what appears to be the same red ray disc as above.
Major processor required though (can anyone say PowerCell?).

[Kytim89]

for those that were wondering what Nintendo's next system could use for storage next gen;
http://gadgets.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-HD-NVD-Blu-ray-Killer-Wannabe-Format-Launched-1069-01.html

same assembly line as DVD but hold 12GB on a single layer.

or something like this;
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/25/red-blows-away-small-room-of-videophiles-with-4k-red-ray-footage/

I don't know too many details other than extremely impressive compression on what appears to be the same red ray disc as above.
Major processor required though (can anyone say PowerCell?).

How much of a graphical boost would this give the Wii 2 compared to its competitors?

[BlackNMild2k1]

it's a storage format that is capable of much greater than current HD compression for video.

the storage format seems to be about 12GB per layer and a helluva lot cheaper than Bluray to manufacture since it only requires a small modification to current DVD assembly lines.

Any graphical boost would come from the GPU/CPU combo combines with bandwidth and RAM, but that's an entirely different conversation.

[BranDonk Kong]

Compression is compression, the format of the disc shouldn't make a difference as to how "good" the compression can be, but it's newer technology (mostly), so it could have "better" compression due to the hardware used to decode it. Like, you wouldn't be able to use the same technique on a Blu Ray disc (which aren't compressed anyway) since there are already a **** ton of Blu Ray players out there that wouldn't be compatible.

Anyway, I'd give this a "maybe" - it's definitely more plausible than HD DVD (which is never, ever, going to happen), but my gut still says Blu Ray for the Wii 2.

[Kytim89]

Compression is compression, the format of the disc shouldn't make a difference as to how "good" the compression can be, but it's newer technology (mostly), so it could have "better" compression due to the hardware used to decode it. Like, you wouldn't be able to use the same technique on a Blu Ray disc (which aren't compressed anyway) since there are already a **** ton of Blu Ray players out there that wouldn't be compatible.

Anyway, I'd give this a "maybe" - it's definitely more plausible than HD DVD (which is never, ever, going to happen), but my gut still says Blu Ray for the Wii 2.

I apologize for flogging a dead horse yet again, but Nintendo will adopt HD-DVD long before Blu Ray because blu ray is a competitors format and in some cases it might be a little too advanced for Nintendo. Nintendo might try to tinker basic DVD to suit their needs for the next system.

[BranDonk Kong]

Xbox 360 uses DVDs, does that mean that Nintendo is using a competitor's format? Like I said before, Sony Corporation (who Nintendo *is not* in competition with) is part of the Blu Ray Association - Sony Computer Entertainment of America (or Europe or Japan - who Nintendo *is* in competition with) is not. Sony was also one of the companies that brought us the DVD and the CD.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, I think we can all agree that any format Nintendo uses will probably be adequate for the job. Even if they continue using their modified DVD format, that would be enough to get the job done. Is 9gb of storage per disc ideal? Perhaps not, but if spreading a game over multiple discs must be done with some titles then it can be done and it won't be the end of the world.

The thing I'm more concerned about is the price of the games. Is Nintendo going to continue their policy of keeping the MSRP of their games at the traditional $49.99? As it stands they are the only console manufacturer that still does that, with Sony and Microsoft bumping their MSRP up to $59.99. DVDs are cheaper to manufacture than Blu-ray is, so if the cost of switching to Blu-ray means higher costs passed on to consumers then I'd rather they continue to stick with DVD, even if it means the occasional multi-disc title.

And of course, it doesn't have to do with just the media itself either. There's the additional cost of the drives that would have to be installed in the console. One of the reasons (not the only reason mind you, but certainly one of the main reasons) why the PS3 had to cost $600 at launch was because of the inclusion of Blu-ray drives. Sure, the cost of integrating those drives went down over time, but even to this day it has to cost a good chunk more to manufacture a Blu-ray drive than it does to manufacture a DVD drive, especially with the different and more expensive lasers involved.

Everyone so far seems to be arguing about the storage capacities. I just thought I'd put out there that there is also the issue of increased cost, and is that something we are willing to accept for the sake of greater storage? Look, DVDs can have as much storage as you want, its just that you might have to spread it over multiple discs to do it. But with DVDs being only a few cents to produce that's not a problem, right? You can probably produce like 10 DVDs for the cost of just 1 Blu-ray disc.

[Stratos]

I just want to see Blu Ray die as a format to something simple like NVD. Though at this rate it may be too late to get into the game.

[BranDonk Kong]

Even if they continue using their modified DVD format...

Standard DVDs. Only thing different is the filesystem.

[BlackNMild2k1]

a modified DVD format would be something like the Red Ray that I posted and I mentioned how it's a lot cheaper than Bluray already.

I checked multiple sources (all that I could find) and the disc held 12(-15)GB per layer and only need small modifications to existing DVD lines unlike Bluray which need completely new manufacturing lines.

From all the sources I saw, the drives were expensive ($1000 back in 2008), but I'm sure there was no mass production as only a handful of drives even existed.

Also the price of games didn't really increase because of the use of Bluray, I'm sure game cost didn't go up $10 because the disc they are printed on cost an extra $0.99 more than a regular DVD, it had more to do with development cost and adjusting to HD assets. The raise in cost was to offset production values and lower the amount of copies needed to be sold to break even. The cost of the disc may have been a small contributing factor, but I doubt it was even close to a main reason.


p.s. I'm still hoping Nintendo finds a way to use their Holo tech in the next system though, and it would be cool to find out that they are already setup to use it for the 3DS aswell (could be another reason for why the price is higher for that as well)