Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Chozo Ghost]

Multi-disc games can get around much of the hassle by having one disc as an "install disc" which basically dumps its contents onto the hard drive, and the other disc being the "play disc" which has the rest of the game's Data, plus it also serves the purpose of preventing people from letting their friends install the game and basically get the game for free. Once you've installed the Install Disc there is pretty much no reason you ever need to use it again, unless you need to install it again for whatever reason. There are lots of PC games that work in this manner.

It is understandable and forgivable that the Wii didn't have an HDD, but the Wii's successor better damn well have one. Nintendo won't be able to use the "market isn't ready for it" excuse the next time around. So the ability to install games on the HDD should be an option. You'd think Nintendo would want to get in on it anyway because there is a lot of money to be made selling add ons and other downloadable content, and plus the problems like the recent glitch in Other M would be more easy to remedy.

[Stogi]

I honestly think that if Nintendo is willing to give "free" 2gb SD cards with every 3DS, that they are seriously considering reverting back to "carts" for their home console.

There are many reasons why this would be beneficial:

1. Load times would again be non-existant, emphasizing the pick-up and play feel the Wii already exudes.

2. Files could be saved directly onto the game. I would love for saves to be on the game itself and on the internet. But I'll suffice with the game itself only.

3. Small thumb print, both in size and packaging. An easy way to shave pennies.

4. It's an easy way to differentiate yourself from the other copy cat systems. It also seems more futuristic, more gadgetry.

[Kytim89]

I honestly think that if Nintendo is willing to give "free" 2gb SD cards with every 3DS, that they are seriously considering reverting back to "carts" for their home console.

There are many reasons why this would be beneficial:

1. Load times would again be non-existant, emphasizing the pick-up and play feel the Wii already exudes.

2. Files could be saved directly onto the game. I would love for saves to be on the game itself and on the internet. But I'll suffice with the game itself only.

3. Small thumb print, both in size and packaging. An easy way to shave pennies.

4. It's an easy way to differentiate yourself from the other copy cat systems. It also seems more futuristic, more gadgetry.

This is a very good and credible argument for the return of cartridge based games, but if Nintendo wants to attaract more third party developes and keep them on board for the Wii 2, they must proceed forward with either HD-DVD or holographic discs because the third parties will look at carts as too primative to return to despite the advantages that you mentioned.
 
I would argue that the 360 has gotten pretty good third party support since its inception and Nintendo needs to take the format of the 360, HD-DVD, and incorporate it into the Wii 2. Third parties will already be familiar with with that format and will be able to develop for the Wii 2 right off the bat.

[Stogi]

360 doesn't use HD-DVD though. It uses Dual Layer DVD's which the Wii can already read.

[BlackNMild2k1]

@ Kytim - Did you just imply that the format of the 360 is HD DVD?

HD DVD is dead, the equipment for HD DVD has been sold off and your common enthusiast may even have HD DVD burners at home. Nintendo will not use that format for the next system. It may use a blue laser disc tech, but it won't be HD DVD(as it was). You are stuck on that like you were previously stuck on RARE coming back to Nintendo. let it go.
Nintendo is and has been working on their own storage solution for (more than?) a decade now and I'm sure they are working hard to make it useable and affordable.

and for something Stogi said earlier, I think Wii2 will exceed the PS360 graphically/technically, but definitely won't blow it away by any means.   PS360 <<<Wii2<<<<< PS4/720

edit: beaten to the reply

[ThePerm]

the rumors that Nintendo will go back to a solid state are pretty rampant, but cartridges speedy load times will be efficient when developers switch from polygons to voxel trees.

[Kytim89]

@ Kytim - Did you just imply that the format of the 360 is HD DVD?

HD DVD is dead, the equipment for HD DVD has been sold off and your common enthusiast may even have HD DVD burners at home. Nintendo will not use that format for the next system. It may use a blue laser disc tech, but it won't be HD DVD(as it was). You are stuck on that like you were previously stuck on RARE coming back to Nintendo. let it go.
Nintendo is and has been working on their own storage solution for (more than?) a decade now and I'm sure they are working hard to make it useable and affordable.

and for something Stogi said earlier, I think Wii2 will exceed the PS360 graphically/technically, but definitely won't blow it away by any means.   PS360 <<<Wii2<<<<< PS4/720

edit: beaten to the reply

Pardon me. I was not aware that the 360 did not use HD-DVD discs. I was always under the impression that it did use them. I do not want to see cartridges again, though.

[Adrock]

I'd love for Nintendo to support cartridges/cards, if they could do so without compromising affordability. Coupled with an SSD for storage and you have a faster console with no moving parts (I detest load times). Of course, Nintendo would have to abandon true backwards compatibility with Wii/GCN, unless they plan a USB disc drive, for example... not sure if people would buy into it though. Abandoning disc based media is an interesting concept and I'm sure the idea has bounced around Nintendo's Research and Development department. If Nintendo can secure quality and consistent 3rd party support (they've pulled off some flat-out miracles on 3DS and all they'd really need is a pledge of multiplatform support), lacking backwards compatibility may actually not hurt Nintendo too, too much in the short run. In the long run, backwards compatibility becomes almost a non-issue. Sony abandoned 2 generations' worth of BC and people bitched at first and hardly anyone mentions it anymore. If Nintendo isn't going to support DVD/Blu-Ray movie playback and most games are under 4GB anyway (and the option for larger cards is available), why not? I think the pros far outweigh the cons.

I think Wii2 will exceed the PS360 graphically/technically, but definitely won't blow it away by any means.

I actually disagree. Developers are talking about 3DS coming close to PS3/360 and Nintendo admitted that they didn't want 3rd parties to feel they couldn't create the games they wanted because of the specs. That said, I expect to see Nintendo take the same approach to the successor to the Wii. Their home consoles definitely need more help in terms of support. 3rd parties will say, we want X, Y, and Z and Nintendo will likely give it to them because 3rd parties have made no secret of the fact that they're more than willing to tell Nintendo to f*ck off. Nintendo is selling a $300 handheld in Japan, I think it's safe to say they've abandoned their price weariness, though, admittedly, 3DS is marked up like whoa and I don't actually see them going over $300. I expect it to keep pace with Sony and Microsoft's next consoles, even if it's underpowered due to Nintendo launching first. Still, I'd compare the discrepancy in processing power to PS2 vs Gamecube/Xbox rather than Wii vs. PS3/360.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think Wii2 will be to the PS360 as the Wii is to the GC/Xbox when it comes to next gen. only the WIi2 will have modern shader tech to make the differences more noticeable.

But the PS4/720 will be to the Wii2 what the PS360 was to the Wii. The cycle shall continue only 3rd parties won't care because graphically, all systems will be similar.

[TJ Spyke]

@ Kytim - Did you just imply that the format of the 360 is HD DVD?

HD DVD is dead, the equipment for HD DVD has been sold off and your common enthusiast may even have HD DVD burners at home. Nintendo will not use that format for the next system. It may use a blue laser disc tech, but it won't be HD DVD(as it was). You are stuck on that like you were previously stuck on RARE coming back to Nintendo. let it go.
Nintendo is and has been working on their own storage solution for (more than?) a decade now and I'm sure they are working hard to make it useable and affordable.

and for something Stogi said earlier, I think Wii2 will exceed the PS360 graphically/technically, but definitely won't blow it away by any means.   PS360 <<<Wii2<<<<< PS4/720

edit: beaten to the reply

Pardon me. I was not aware that the 360 did not use HD-DVD discs. I was always under the impression that it did use them. I do not want to see cartridges again, though.

I think you may have been confused because Microsoft did sell a Xbox 360 add-on that let people play HD DVD discs on the system. There were even rumors that Microsoft was going to announce a Xbox 360 with the player built in at CES 2008 until Toshiba announced that they were ending support for HD DVD (which was basically the death of the format since they were the main supporters of it).

[Stogi]

I'd love for Nintendo to support cartridges/cards, if they could do so without compromising affordability. Coupled with an SSD for storage and you have a faster console with no moving parts (I detest load times). Of course, Nintendo would have to abandon true backwards compatibility with Wii/GCN, unless they plan a USB disc drive, for example... not sure if people would buy into it though. Abandoning disc based media is an interesting concept and I'm sure the idea has bounced around Nintendo's Research and Development department. If Nintendo can secure quality and consistent 3rd party support (they've pulled off some flat-out miracles on 3DS and all they'd really need is a pledge of multiplatform support), lacking backwards compatibility may actually not hurt Nintendo too, too much in the short run. In the long run, backwards compatibility becomes almost a non-issue. Sony abandoned 2 generations' worth of BC and people bitched at first and hardly anyone mentions it anymore. If Nintendo isn't going to support DVD/Blu-Ray movie playback and most games are under 4GB anyway (and the option for larger cards is available), why not? I think the pros far outweigh the cons.

I think Wii2 will exceed the PS360 graphically/technically, but definitely won't blow it away by any means.

I actually disagree. Developers are talking about 3DS coming close to PS3/360 and Nintendo admitted that they didn't want 3rd parties to feel they couldn't create the games they wanted because of the specs. That said, I expect to see Nintendo take the same approach to the successor to the Wii. Their home consoles definitely need more help in terms of support. 3rd parties will say, we want X, Y, and Z and Nintendo will likely give it to them because 3rd parties have made no secret of the fact that they're more than willing to tell Nintendo to f*ck off. Nintendo is selling a $300 handheld in Japan, I think it's safe to say they've abandoned their price weariness, though, admittedly, 3DS is marked up like whoa and I don't actually see them going over $300. I expect it to keep pace with Sony and Microsoft's next consoles, even if it's underpowered due to Nintendo launching first. Still, I'd compare the discrepancy in processing power to PS2 vs Gamecube/Xbox rather than Wii vs. PS3/360.

I'm glad you agree, but there is no need to completely disavow a DVD drive. They are cheap enough that adding true backwards compatibility for the Wii is well worth the extra price.

[Chozo Ghost]

HD DVD is dead, the equipment for HD DVD has been sold off and your common enthusiast may even have HD DVD burners at home.

Although that is true, the burners aren't very wide spread and no further burners are or will ever be manufactured again, so the ones that break down are toast forever. Another thing is the blank HD-DVD writable media isn't being manufactured anymore either, and I imagine what little of it remains is so expensive now that it wouldn't make piracy very feasible/profitable. Not to mention the fact Nintendo would bastardize the format even further by using angular lasers or whatever, just like how they've bastardized DVD for the Wii/GC. The format the Wii uses is based on DVD and has the same storage capacity, but its a distinctly different format. This was done to defeat piracy and also make it so Nintendo didn't have to pay licensing fees to the DVD Forum.

However, with HD-DVD I don't think bastardizing it is entirely necessary because like you said its a dead format, which means the HD-DVD forum no longer even exists, however it would put up another layer of obstacles for potential pirates who may happen to have the HD-DVD equipment and blank media laying around.

But you have to agree that even though some people may have HD-DVD equipment, there are fewer who own that that happen to own Blu-ray equipment, seeing as how Blu-ray is still alive and more widely adopted.

[King of Twitch]

I think Kytim might be on to something:


(rough Wii 2 mockup)

[BlackNMild2k1]

That is why I said they wouldn't use HD DVD (AS IT WAS), I was implying that they would alter the tech in some way or just use another standard the that allowed higher capacity using red/blue lasers.

It's possible they get a really good deal on Bluray and it's also possible that their holodisc tech made a break through and is ready for prime time. Some many things could happen for Wii2, but I'm almost positive HD DVD will not be one of them.

on another note, did you guys hear about some new gaming related announcement tonite on MTV?
Major consumer electronics company to tease new gaming-related product tonight
tonite on Rob Dyrdeks Fantasy Factory.

Can't really say much about it yet except that it's something sort of unexpected.

It makes no sense that it's being revealed on the show, so don't think that logically.

Pro-tip: Don't set your expectations high, though it's definitely something I wouldn't have expected.

Anyone care to take a guess?

[Mop it up]

Nintendo's vitality sensor.

[Adrock]

I'm glad you agree, but there is no need to completely disavow a DVD drive. They are cheap enough that adding true backwards compatibility for the Wii is well worth the extra price.

Include a disc drive just for backwards compatibility? I guess the GBA slot in the DS is along the same concept. Still, I'd rather nix the drive entirely if they're going to use cards as their storage medium. Save on the parts and have an all around more durable console. The only moving part would be the fan, assuming Nintendo goes with a SSD.

[Kytim89]

HD DVD is dead, the equipment for HD DVD has been sold off and your common enthusiast may even have HD DVD burners at home.

Although that is true, the burners aren't very wide spread and no further burners are or will ever be manufactured again, so the ones that break down are toast forever. Another thing is the blank HD-DVD writable media isn't being manufactured anymore either, and I imagine what little of it remains is so expensive now that it wouldn't make piracy very feasible/profitable. Not to mention the fact Nintendo would bastardize the format even further by using angular lasers or whatever, just like how they've bastardized DVD for the Wii/GC. The format the Wii uses is based on DVD and has the same storage capacity, but its a distinctly different format. This was done to defeat piracy and also make it so Nintendo didn't have to pay licensing fees to the DVD Forum.

However, with HD-DVD I don't think bastardizing it is entirely necessary because like you said its a dead format, which means the HD-DVD forum no longer even exists, however it would put up another layer of obstacles for potential pirates who may happen to have the HD-DVD equipment and blank media laying around.

But you have to agree that even though some people may have HD-DVD equipment, there are fewer who own that that happen to own Blu-ray equipment, seeing as how Blu-ray is still alive and more widely adopted.

This is my reasoning for Nintendo adopting the format and I a sorry for beating a dead horse. Nintendo wants something that they can get for a quick buck and they also want to cut down on the amount of pirates drastically. The question is how much would it cost them to aquire the technology? What I am betting on is that they will take on HD-DVD and tinker it to their liking and then use it long enough to do even more research into future storages solutions.

[Kytim89]

I think Kytim might be on to something:


(rough Wii 2 mockup)

Zap, did you make this yourself? What I had in mind involved the Wii 2 being about the same dimensions as the 360 slim. Imagine  console haing the ports for each of thise consoles on top(opposite side of where the HDD is inserted). Would this be too expensive?

Judging by all the ports to the 3DS, I am wondering what kindof ports the Wii 2 will have when it releases.

[Adrock]

Would this be too expensive?

No, but it would look ridiculous. That was the whole point of Zap's mock-up...  mock being the operative word there.

And if something is worth pirating.. pirates will find a way to pirate it... even if it's on HD-DVD. Why are we even still talking about HD-DVD? It's not going to happen.

[Kytim89]

Would this be too expensive?

No, but it would look ridiculous. That was the whole point of Zap's mock-up...  mock being the operative word there.

And if something is worth pirating.. pirates will find a way to pirate it... even if it's on HD-DVD. Why are we even still talking about HD-DVD? It's not going to happen.

I have made my point about HD-DVD, so I will shut up about it for now. As for the mock up, it would be nice to have it on the side of the console for when it is being laid horizontally and on top when  in a vertical position that is simialr to the Gamecube ports on the Wii. But, this would be rediculous and therefore a USB adapter would make make better sense. Would this adapter be sold with the console, or seperate by Nintendo or a third party?

[Stogi]

It doesn't make any sense to begin with Kytim!

The VC makes everything you mention superfluous.

But, this would be rediculous

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

[Adrock]

But, this would be rediculous

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

And even then, he spelled "ridiculous" wrong....

[Kytim89]

It doesn't make any sense to begin with Kytim!

The VC makes everything you mention superfluous.

But, this would be ridiculous

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

I retract my interest in having the ports of the virtual console built directly into the Wii2 console. However, I stand by my belief that an adapter that includes all the controllers for each console being emulated would be nice. What is the purpose of the virtual console? It is there to deliver a sense of nostalgia. This sense of nostalgia is not complete unless you are able to use the actual controller for the games on virtual console. This adapter would complete the nostalgic factor.

[BranDonk Kong]

This thread needs to be renamed "The OFFICIAL Wii bad idea thread *bring your own bad ideas*" or something along those lines...none of this stuff is even a rumor...it's just a bunch of bad ideas. Nintendo isn't going to use HD-DVD (or this holographic crap), and they aren't going to add controller ports for all of these old systems. Why would they add a port (and the necessary internal accommodations for said port) for some 20+ year old controller that no ones owns. That would be retarded. Yes, retarded. Nothing says next-gen like being able to plug in a Commodore 64 keyboard.

Here's my guess - the Wii 2 will be backwards compatible with the Wii, but not the GameCube. It won't have any controller ports at all, it'll all be wireless again. It will have at least 4 USB ports (more likely 6 or 8 though), and there will be USB chargers available for Wii 2 controllers (built-in batteries this time). Virtual console - maybe, but not likely. They hooked everyone with the VC on the Wii, brought back that nostalgic feeling, introduced video games to people that have never played them before, and now they are going to go to the next level, without looking back. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii 2 did *not* play Wii games, or if it did, it will be via software emulation (like Xbox 360 and non-launch PS3s), and will be limited to purchased from Nintendo's new marketplace. Why? Because they already sold 80 billion Wiis, everyone has one already. It will have a built-in hard drive, at least 250GB, but probably more like 500GB or 750GB, since the price difference isn't that great (and 250GB HDDs probably won't be in production anywhere), and the console won't be released until 2012. HDMI will be the standard, and the cable will be included. Controller "pieces" will connect to each other wirelessly.

[Adrock]

Of course there's going to be a Virtual Console. There will always be someone who wants to spend $8 on, say, A Link to the Past (they'd probably spend more if Nintendo charged more). Why wouldn't Nintendo want to make even more money on 20+ year old games?