Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[BranDonk Kong]

There's no way Nintendo would be stupid enough to put HD DVD in the Wii 2. I honestly can't believe anyone would even recommend it. It's not a fading format - it's dead. I'm sure every factory that was even producing HD DVD discs has already been converted to something else. They don't make the lasers anymore, they don't make the hardware, they don't make the media. It's dead. Let it go.

Damn it, I just checked out Wikipedia and read about CBHD - China Blu High-definition Disc, which are actually HD DVD (discs). Still though, they hold 15-30GB, so that would still leave Nintendo behind the competition...they should just go with Blu Ray. Sony Computer Entertainment of America (and Europe, Japan, etc) are in competition with Nintendo, Sony Corporation itself, is not, and they are only 1 of 19 companies on the board of directors, many of which are "friendly" with Nintendo, like Panasonic, Sharp, and Samsung and LG (I could be wrong, but I think LG makes the DVD-ROM for the Wii).

[Kytim89]

since an HD Wii 2 would help out the Blu Ray format quite significantly.

Blu-ray doesn't need help. I don't know if you got the memo or not, but it won the format war against HD-DVD so its pretty much competition free at this point.

I also can't see Nintendo paying licensing fees to Sony in order to use their proprietary media format. This was actually the very same reason that Nintendo rejected the SNES CD add-on (which later went on to become the PS1). Nintendo wants to have complete ownership and control over their gaming hardware. If they went with Blu-ray then it would be Sony who would have control and say over things, and Nintendo isn't going to allow that.

I don't know if you got the memo, but BluRay is still not doing so hot(10-15% of movie sales vs DVD). It may have won the war against HD-DVD, but it's still getting it's ass handed to it by regular DVD's. There is still plenty of room for another competitor to take the HD crown and Digital Distribution is stalling the overpriced BRD market anyway.

A Wii2 with Bluray support would definitely help the BRD make the inroads that it needs to finally make a significant dent in DVD sales. Nintendo would never agree to something like that even if Sony licensed it to them for free. Maybe if Sony gave them a seat on the board fo directors, bet that will never happen either.

Nintendo's best bet right now is their work with InPhase and hybriding the tech with a DVD for BC with the Wii & GC. If they can accomplish that for a Wii2, and get movie studios on board for the disc format (which could hold significantly more than a BRD at much faster read times for uncompressed anything moving forward), BRD might even find itself in trouble.

Digital Distro is still the path for the future, but audio/video philes, collectors & people that just love to own a physical copy will be all over such a format.

I still think that Nintendo is going to move onto HD-DVD and incorporate some of the holographic technology they have been working on with Inphase to prevent piracy.

Nintendo could really appease the western third party developes by including the ability to use the unreal engine for the wii 2. This would attract and keep developers because this engine seems to e the norm these days for game development.

[BlackNMild2k1]

but they don't need HD DVD if they have the Holographic tech on the disc. the Holographic tech is the storage.

If they could get the tech to work with DVD, having HD-DVD would be pointless because the holographic tech is vastly superior in access speeds and storage.

[Kytim89]

but they don't need HD DVD if they have the Holographic tech on the disc. the Holographic tech is the storage.

If they could get the tech to work with DVD, having HD-DVD would be pointless because the holographic tech is vastly superior in access speeds and storage.

But holographic storage is kind of exspensive, right? I believe that you mentioned before about how holographic storage would be perfect for anti-piracy.

[Chozo Ghost]

There's no way Nintendo would be stupid enough to put HD DVD in the Wii 2. I honestly can't believe anyone would even recommend it. It's not a fading format - it's dead. I'm sure every factory that was even producing HD DVD discs has already been converted to something else. They don't make the lasers anymore, they don't make the hardware, they don't make the media. It's dead. Let it go.

You just don't get it. Nintendo wants to have a format which no one else uses because that makes it harder for pirates to steal their stuff. This is the reason they used weird ass tiny discs with the GC that no one else used, and you know what? The strategy worked. How prevalent was GC piracy? Not very prevalent at all. So why would Nintendo want to use an industry standard format like Blu-ray which every pirate is going to be able to crack almost immediately?

[Chozo Ghost]

Athough, they hold 15-30GB, so that would still leave Nintendo behind the competition...they should just go with Blu Ray.

Don't you understand that even that smaller space is overkill by far? Even the DVD format itself with its mere 9gb of storage is almost always well more than enough for most games. There are only like two Wii games out there (one of them being Metroid Trilogy with all three on one disc) that even come close to using all the space on a DVD. If 9GB is more than adequate for this generation then why should 15-30gb be not enough for the next gen?

In a worst case scenario games could span 2 discs, but with 30GB of storage per disc I don't imagine that would happen hardly ever (if at all). Its not like the next generation of consoles are going to be running holodeck simulations, so why the hell would the need terabytes of storage space per game?

[BlackNMild2k1]

but they aren't gonna use HD-DVD because it's a dead format. All the hardware to rip and burn HD-DVD are likely dirt cheap on the market right now so why would anyone want to use that format?

Nintendo has been working on their own format for a long time, so I'm sure that's where their priorities are. But if they were to use something like BRD, I'm sure it would spin and read backwards while in game mode. That's all they did to the GC disc (AFAIK) was use a small DVD that spun backwards and read from inside to out.

Athough, they hold 15-30GB, so that would still leave Nintendo behind the competition...they should just go with Blu Ray.

Don't you understand that even that smaller space is overkill by far? Even the DVD format itself with its mere 9gb of storage is almost always well more than enough for most games. There are only like two Wii games out there (one of them being Metroid Trilogy with all three on one disc) that even come close to using all the space on a DVD. If 9GB is more than adequate for this generation then why should 15-30gb be not enough for the next gen?

In a worst case scenario games could span 2 discs, but with 30GB of storage per disc I don't imagine that would happen hardly ever (if at all). Its not like the next generation of consoles are going to be running holodeck simulations, so why the hell would the need terabytes of storage space per game?

And Nintendo could use mini HoloDisc the size of GC disc next gen and probably still get more storage and faster read times than a next gen BRD.
The most important part being the superior read times.

[Kytim89]

but they aren't gonna use HD-DVD because it's a dead format. All the hardware to rip and burn HD-DVD are likely dirt cheap on the market right now so why would anyone want to use that format?

If this is the case then what better reason for Nintendo to take it on for the wii 2. Nintendo has always been good at taking discarded technology formally used by its competitors to make their own stuff. It just makes sense to me that Nintendo would have HD-DVD. I just can not shake this feeling that holographics stoarges is still too expensive for implementation by Nintendo.

What other things should the wii have at its disposal?

Operating System
Internal Storage
Anything that we have never thought of yet?

[Chozo Ghost]

And Nintendo could use mini HoloDisc the size of GC disc next gen and probably still get more storage and faster read times than a next gen BRD.
The most important part being the superior read times.

I really wish Nintendo would go back to the mini-sized discs like they used with the GC. They were really cool, and it allows for a much smaller console. The problem with the GC discs though is they only had like 1-2gb of storage space per disc so there were quite a few games that had to be on 2 discs, but if they tried that now with mini discs of a higher capacity format then they should be just fine.

Unfortunately, because Nintendo used full-sized discs with the Wii that means that in order for them to maintain BC on the Wii 2.0 they would have to enable full size disc support there as well, which means the drive and therefore the console would have to be designed larger than it would otherwise have to be. So they probably won't be using mini discs, but I wish they would because they were cool.

[Kytim89]

And Nintendo could use mini HoloDisc the size of GC disc next gen and probably still get more storage and faster read times than a next gen BRD.
The most important part being the superior read times.

I really wish Nintendo would go back to the mini-sized discs like they used with the GC. They were really cool, and it allows for a much smaller console. The problem with the GC discs though is they only had like 1-2gb of storage space per disc so there were quite a few games that had to be on 2 discs, but if they tried that now with mini discs of a higher capacity format then they should be just fine.

Unfortunately, because Nintendo used full-sized discs with the Wii that means that in order for them to maintain BC on the Wii 2.0 they would have to enable full size disc support there as well, which means the drive and therefore the console would have to be designed larger than it would otherwise have to be. So they probably won't be using mini discs, but I wish they would because they were cool.

The wii 2 will have the same dimensions as the 360 slim. What I mean by dimensions is form factor and design. The wii 2 will also retain a disc drive and will be perhaps the last Nintendo console that uses one before switching over to digital download for good.
 
What I worrry about is whether the lense of the wii 2 will be able to hand three different types of discs. One for the wii 2(HD-DVD), one for the wii(DVD) and one for the Gamecube. 

[Stratos]

The wii 2 will have the same dimensions as the 360 slim. What I mean by dimensions is form factor and design. The wii 2 will also retain a disc drive and will be perhaps the last Nintendo console that uses one before switching over to digital download for good.

No. It won't. Nintendo loves their physical media and I would guess they are the ones who will be last to holdout with physical media. Also their lacking online framework, unless severely turned around this coming gen (and I mean severely turned around to rival Live), we won't see digital only from Nintendo for a long while.

The problem with going all digital is that if one switches then the other systems will just get more of the physical sales pie. What would happen if Microsoft and Sony go all digital this next gen and Nintendo doesn't? Nintendo would just dominate all of the physical sales. No one wants to lose out on those.

[Kytim89]

The wii 2 will have the same dimensions as the 360 slim. What I mean by dimensions is form factor and design. The wii 2 will also retain a disc drive and will be perhaps the last Nintendo console that uses one before switching over to digital download for good.

No. It won't. Nintendo loves their physical media and I would guess they are the ones who will be last to holdout with physical media. Also their lacking online framework, unless severely turned around this coming gen (and I mean severely turned around to rival Live), we won't see digital only from Nintendo for a long while.

The problem with going all digital is that if one switches then the other systems will just get more of the physical sales pie. What would happen if Microsoft and Sony go all digital this next gen and Nintendo doesn't? Nintendo would just dominate all of the physical sales. No one wants to lose out on those.

The internet connectivity of the wii 2 will be vastly superior to what the wii currenty has because Nintendo can no longer afford to not have some kind of robust online features for the console. The market has set this situation up and Nintendo will have to get with the times. How powerful and creative this online will be is debatable.
 
What I think is going to happen is Nintendo will offer a stream lined version for basic gamers and then offer a better version for a premium. Basiaclly the stream lined version woul be similar to Home and the premium version will be similar to XBLA. How much would the premium cost? Perhaps 2000 points for a one year subscription or the cost could be part of the console pricing.
 
Could the wii 2 use Chrome as a OS and 3G internet connectivity?
 
I want the online features for the wii 2 to accomodate MMOs and I have my eyes set mostly on Monster Hunter Frontier.

[Chozo Ghost]

Kytime, why don't you ever capitalize Wii? It wouldn't bother me so much if you didn't capitalize PS3 and other proper nouns, but you do. I just don't understand why you do it with everything else but never with the Wii.

[Kytim89]

Kytime, why don't you ever capitalize Wii? It wouldn't bother me so much if you didn't capitalize PS3 and other proper nouns, but you do. I just don't understand why you do it with everything else but never with the Wii.

Sometimes I get into my zone and over look certain thing when I write on this forum.

Since you are are lecturing me on spelling, my name is Kytim and not "Kytime." Oh, do not forget the 89 and it is not "Kytim98" for the record.

[Mop it up]

I really do wonder what kind of format Nintendo's next system will use. Given the popularity of the Wii, it would be foolish to not have it play Wii discs, so they need to have some way to play them. I highly doubt it will have support for GameCube, but it doesn't need it, no one is going to care. It would be good to not have it, since the extra spring mechanism in the Wii drive that allows it to accept GameCube discs makes it less durable.

I'm sure it would spin and read backwards while in game mode. That's all they did to the GC disc (AFAIK) was use a small DVD that spun backwards and read from inside to out.

Yeah, that's how they got around paying for the licence to use Mini-DVD. The Wii is similar, the format differs enough from DVD that they don't have to pay. Their next format could be along a similar line as well.

[BranDonk Kong]

There's no way Nintendo would be stupid enough to put HD DVD in the Wii 2. I honestly can't believe anyone would even recommend it. It's not a fading format - it's dead. I'm sure every factory that was even producing HD DVD discs has already been converted to something else. They don't make the lasers anymore, they don't make the hardware, they don't make the media. It's dead. Let it go.

You just don't get it. Nintendo wants to have a format which no one else uses because that makes it harder for pirates to steal their stuff. This is the reason they used weird ass tiny discs with the GC that no one else used, and you know what? The strategy worked. How prevalent was GC piracy? Not very prevalent at all. So why would Nintendo want to use an industry standard format like Blu-ray which every pirate is going to be able to crack almost immediately?

The lack of "prevalent" piracy on the GameCube had absolutely nothing to do with the disc size. After all - they were just DVDs. All you need to do is take off the top of the casing (or replace with with one of the many, many replacement tops) and you could put a regular DVD inside there. The GameCube actually had pretty decent security, but it also had a pretty weak install base, and yes, it was for kids, which is basically why hardly anyone cared enough to try to hack it for so long.

I really do wonder what kind of format Nintendo's next system will use. Given the popularity of the Wii, it would be foolish to not have it play Wii discs, so they need to have some way to play them. I highly doubt it will have support for GameCube, but it doesn't need it, no one is going to care. It would be good to not have it, since the extra spring mechanism in the Wii drive that allows it to accept GameCube discs makes it less durable.

I'm sure it would spin and read backwards while in game mode. That's all they did to the GC disc (AFAIK) was use a small DVD that spun backwards and read from inside to out.

Yeah, that's how they got around paying for the licence to use Mini-DVD. The Wii is similar, the format differs enough from DVD that they don't have to pay. Their next format could be along a similar line as well.

Wrong. The discs do not spin backwards, and they are nothing more than DVDs, they're just 8cm discs. The fact that the system did not play DVD video (without modification) is how they got around licensing costs - same thing for the Wii. And all DVD and CD player read from inside to out, that's why if you rip a disc or burn a disc, the process speeds up as it goes on.

[Chozo Ghost]

I highly doubt it will have support for GameCube, but it doesn't need it, no one is going to care.

That's absolutely true. In fact, for the most part the GC backwards compatibility on the Wii is largely a redundant feature as it is. Most people who own Wiis did not own GC games and accessories, so the ports serve no purpose to them other than to cause confusion. The only people who cared about GC BC were hardcore Nintendo fans, and they almost certainly have a Wii by now. If Nintendo started manufacturing Wiis without GC ports and support I don't think many people would care or even notice. This is something we might actually see happen in a Wii revision, if Nintendo does that before releasing the Wii 2.

[that Baby guy]

I highly doubt it will have support for GameCube, but it doesn't need it, no one is going to care.

That's absolutely true. In fact, for the most part the GC backwards compatibility on the Wii is largely a redundant feature as it is. Most people who own Wiis did not own GC games and accessories, so the ports serve no purpose to them other than to cause confusion. The only people who cared about GC BC were hardcore Nintendo fans, and they almost certainly have a Wii by now. If Nintendo started manufacturing Wiis without GC ports and support I don't think many people would care or even notice. This is something we might actually see happen in a Wii revision, if Nintendo does that before releasing the Wii 2.

Backwards compatibility is a consistent selling point towards the beginning at a new console's lifetime.  The PS2 partially sold so well because people knew they could play nearly every PSX game on it, and those were pretty cheap at the same time.

Likewise, the concept of the Wii's GC compatibility meant a lot to a lot of early adopters, specifically those without GameCubes.  Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin and other Nintendo franchises they missed out on were now suddenly available.  Don't underestimate it's value in the initial adoption of a new product.

[Stratos]

It may seem like a minor issue now, but remember the ruckus over the removal of BC from the PS3 or how the 360 doesn't play all XBox games. It would become a big deal if a new console failed to include it.

[Kytim89]

I highly doubt it will have support for GameCube, but it doesn't need it, no one is going to care.

That's absolutely true. In fact, for the most part the GC backwards compatibility on the Wii is largely a redundant feature as it is. Most people who own Wiis did not own GC games and accessories, so the ports serve no purpose to them other than to cause confusion. The only people who cared about GC BC were hardcore Nintendo fans, and they almost certainly have a Wii by now. If Nintendo started manufacturing Wiis without GC ports and support I don't think many people would care or even notice. This is something we might actually see happen in a Wii revision, if Nintendo does that before releasing the Wii 2.

Backwards compatibility is a consistent selling point towards the beginning at a new console's lifetime.  The PS2 partially sold so well because people knew they could play nearly every PSX game on it, and those were pretty cheap at the same time.

Likewise, the concept of the Wii's GC compatibility meant a lot to a lot of early adopters, specifically those without GameCubes.  Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin and other Nintendo franchises they missed out on were now suddenly available.  Don't underestimate it's value in the initial adoption of a new product.

This brings up two scemarios for Gamecube BC on the Wii 2:
 
The first involves BC similar to that of the Wii. Basically the Wii 2 plays its own discs and those of the Wii and Gamecube. Of course this translates into costs which Nintendo then goes on to charge to the customers. The Wii 2 also retains the controller and memory card ports that Wii has available, which costs money and is then transfered to the customer.
 
The second involves Nintendo ditching BC via disc drive for emulation. The Gamecube is added to the virtual console and the Gamecube ports are then removed to make the system smaller. Nintendo then charges 1500 for the Gamecube virtual console games and gets you to rebuy them again. This raises two problems: One, will the Wii 2 be able to handle emualting the Gamecube, and second, what about controllers and accessories. The answer to the second problem is a USB adapter that has a Gamecube port on one end and is activated in the accessories panel of the Wii 2.
 
I personally would not have much issue with the second scenario if Nintendo allowed me to transfer my Gamecube memory cards to the Wii 2 internal memory for the VC titles. The seventy plus hours I invested in Twilight Princess is just too close to my heart to let go because I have to start the game over.
 
Which scenario is better? Which one is cheaper?

[BlackNMild2k1]

First of all the Wii chip is a GC chip. The Wii chip downclocks it self to play GC games, so if the Wii2 can play Wii games from the disc, it can play GC from th disc.

2nd, if Nintendo uses a next gen tech for storage (miniHoloDisc), maybe that tech allows for mini disc again and will use the same slot drive tech going forward. It would accept mini Wii2Disc, large Wii Disc and mini GC disc. You don't really want your console being any smaller than the Wii already is. You want it to be noticed and not invisible, so a regular sized disc drive is fine.

3rd, as far as GC ports go, they could release a wireless Bluetooth adapter (something I've suggested since a long time ago) or a 4 port adapter for the Wiimote that has the GC controller and mem card support on it.

4th, why not add GC to the VC list? It's not like you can just go into any store and purchase GC games, especially 2, 3, 4, 5 from now. I expect Nintendo to have figured out storage solutions by the time the next gen home console comes out(Sony & MS have) and space should not be an issue.

[Kytim89]

First of all the Wii chip is a GC chip. The Wii chip downclocks it self to play GC games, so if the Wii2 can play Wii games from the disc, it can play GC from th disc.

2nd, if Nintendo uses a next gen tech for storage (miniHoloDisc), maybe that tech allows for mini disc again and will use the same slot drive tech going forward. It would accept mini Wii2Disc, large Wii Disc and mini GC disc. You don't really want your console being any smaller than the Wii already is. You want it to be noticed and not invisible, so a regular sized disc drive is fine.

3rd, as far as GC ports go, they could release a wireless Bluetooth adapter (something I've suggested since a long time ago) or a 4 port adapter for the Wiimote that has the GC controller and mem card support on it.

4th, why not add GC to the VC list? It's not like you can just go into any store and purchase GC games, especially 2, 3, 4, 5 from now. I expect Nintendo to have figured out storage solutions by the time the next gen home console comes out(Sony & MS have) and space should not be an issue.

I do not have that many Gamecube games at my disposal, but now I realize that I can get them much cheaper via retail than if I bought them from Nintendo's virtaul console. It would be neat, however.
 
As for the Wii 2 not having any ports for the Gamecube controller, they could always go with my idea of having a built Wavebird reciever that acts as four individual revievers and all you do is set a specific channel to each controller via an accessory menu within the console. How much would this cost?
 
The second part involves the other controllers for the various virtual console controllers. Nintendo, or some third party could release an adapter that plugs into a USB and has plugs for each console being emulated on the wii 2(Saturn and Drea,cast included).
 
Overall, I keep envisioning the Wii 2 being similar in size to the 360 slim and there is enough room on that system for Gamecube ports and maybe some extras for other consoles if the price is right.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo would want people to rebuy their old GC games anyway, so that creates an incentive for them to break BC even if its a technically trivial feature to implement. I would guess the Wii 2.0 will have a hard drive, or at least flash storage of considerable size so being able to download and store GC games on the HDD should be possible, but even so they might repackage certain GC games and sell them at retail stores on disc format. They've already done that with the Wii-ports of games like Mario Tennis, Pikmin, etc. where the only thing really changed was the addition of motion controls.

We might see something like that happen with other GC classics, like Zelda Wind Waker, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, etc. They may even bundle multiple GC titles on a single disc, ala Metroid Trilogy. That wouldn't be a problem because DVDs hold 2-3 times as much as the GC discs, so you'd think a DVD could contain 2-3 GC games.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo would want people to rebuy their old GC games anyway, so that creates an incentive for them to break BC even if its a technically trivial feature to implement. I would guess the Wii 2.0 will have a hard drive, or at least flash storage of considerable size so being able to download and store GC games on the HDD should be possible, but even so they might repackage certain GC games and sell them at retail stores on disc format. They've already done that with the Wii-ports of games like Mario Tennis, Pikmin, etc. where the only thing really changed was the addition of motion controls.

We might see something like that happen with other GC classics, like Zelda Wind Waker, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, etc. They may even bundle multiple GC titles on a single disc, ala Metroid Trilogy. That wouldn't be a problem because DVDs hold 2-3 times as much as the GC discs, so you'd think a DVD could contain 2-3 GC games.

I figure that the Wii 2 wil have atleast 4 GB of internal flash memory and 8 GB of memory at the most. I do not see them going any higher or lower than these two numbers and especielly since flash memory is getting cheaper. I have said this plenty of times already, but Nintendo is going to offer every storage solution available to the consumer for two reasons: First, they want to avoid hearing consumers complain about the lack of storage, and second, they do not have to spend too money on internal memory themselves. As for the HDD irself, I would prefer Nintendo just stayed out of developing their own HDDs and jsut set a specific type(ATA?) for the consumer to put into the Wii 2.
 
As for rebranding Gamecube games to sell again, Nintendo never misses a chance to get us to rebuy their stuff. What better way than to either offer GC on virtual console or as remakes on HD-DVD. Either way, they want yor money.
 
BnM, I would not be suprised if Nintendo found a way to return to the GC style discs, but I do not see it happening. Nintendo will most likely move onto HD-DVD for the next home console. 

[Kytim89]

The Wii 2 will be about the same size and dimensions of the 360 slim. The upgraded version of the classice controller will be wireless like the one for the 360 in the picture.