Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Mop it up]

Isn't $35 the standard? I would see it as more that games are priced less than the standard when they use smaller cards. It's similar to games with lower budgets being less than $50 on Wii. How many games besides ones from Square Enix or store markups are more than $35?

[Kytim89]

I was at Wal-mart a few days ago and noticed that they were selling   4 GB flash drives for $10. Not a bad deal, but it is a sign that the prices are coming down on the technology. What is to say that necy year it is 8GB in the $10 range?

How big are the average wii games? Are they 8 GB? I forsee wii 2 games being in the the 20 GB range?

[Stratos]

I doubt 20 GB. Seems a bit like overkill. Most games don't even reach the max 8.5GB of DVDs.

[Kytim89]

I doubt 20 GB. Seems a bit like overkill. Most games don't even reach the max 8.5GB of DVDs.

Just how big are these games for the xbox 360, PS3 and wii?
 
I figure the average size of the games for these consoles are:
 
Wii: 8 GB
PS3: 30 to 50 GB
360: 20 to 40 GB
 
Just my guess. Does anyone else have a rough figure?

[TJ Spyke]

Kytim, the max any Wii game can be is 8.7 GB. I highly doubt the average is as high as 8GB. The Xbox 360 uses the same size disc as Wii, so the only way a Xbox 360 game could be 20 GB is if it came on 3 discs. PS3 max size is 50GB, but I doubt the average is anywhere near 30GB since most of it's games are also on Xbox 360.

[Stratos]

Um, 360 uses DVDs as well so that's way too high. Also the average Wii game is a lot smaller than that.

Most PS3 games don't need all of the Blu-Ray space other than Metal Gear: The Movie that Maxed Out BD.

[Mop it up]

The Wii uses DVDs so games can be 8.5GB max if a dual-layer disc is used. But only a handful of games actually use one, so a regular disc is 4.7GB. Most games don't even max that out, I'd guess they average half that space. Some games, such as Animal Crossing City Folk and Super Paper Mario, use half of one GB.

The XBox 360 uses DVDs as well so its limit is also 8.5GB. Blu-ray has a limit of 50GB for dual-layer though I don't know if any use it.

[Kytim89]

I understand now, but I look at all the major titles for the PS360 and think "Damn, there is no way that these games are smaller than 20 GB!"

[broodwars]

The XBox 360 uses DVDs as well so its limit is also 8.5GB. Blu-ray has a limit of 50GB for dual-layer though I don't know if any use it.

My guess is that Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII are probably the only two games on the PS3 who have come anywhere close to that 50 GB limit.

[NWR_insanolord]

The only way to even come close to using the full 50 GB is to load it up with all kinds of uncompressed video. Also, some PS3 games fill more space by writing some game data to the disc in multiple places in order to cut down on the longer loading times caused by using Blu-ray discs.

I understand now, but I look at all the major titles for the PS360 and think "Damn, there is no way that these games are smaller than 20 GB!"

Only a handful of 360 games use more than one disc, which means only a handful of 360 games take up more than 9 GB.

[Mop it up]

lol three people jumped on that one.

Behold the amazing advances in compression technology. And I think it really goes to show just how unneeded more space is, especially compared to other advances like elimination of load times.

[Kytim89]

The only way to even come close to using the full 50 GB is to load it up with all kinds of uncompressed video. Also, some PS3 games fill more space by writing some game data to the disc in multiple places in order to cut down on the longer loading times caused by using Blu-ray discs.

I understand now, but I look at all the major titles for the PS360 and think "Damn, there is no way that these games are smaller than 20 GB!"

Only a handful of 360 games use more than one disc, which means only a handful of 360 games take up more than 9 GB.

This might sound like a dumb question, but if most 360 games do not take up more than 9 GB of disc space, can the wii play 360 games with HD stripped off?

[broodwars]

lol three people jumped on that one.

Behold the amazing advances in compression technology. And I think it really goes to show just how unneeded more space is, especially compared to other advances like elimination of load times.

Honestly, I rather enjoy uncompressed video on my HD TV when it's offered.  FF XIII was gorgeous on it, and I'm not fond of the idea of going to the cartridge format and having to endure compression artifacts in exchange for decreased load times that don't really bother me in most games I play.

[NWR_insanolord]

lol three people jumped on that one.

Behold the amazing advances in compression technology. And I think it really goes to show just how unneeded more space is, especially compared to other advances like elimination of load times.

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

lol three people jumped on that one.

Behold the amazing advances in compression technology. And I think it really goes to show just how unneeded more space is, especially compared to other advances like elimination of load times.

Honestly, I rather enjoy uncompressed video on my HD TV when it's offered.  FF XIII was gorgeous on it, and I'm not fond of the idea of going to the cartridge format and having to endure compression artifacts in exchange for decreased load times that don't really bother me in most games I play.

We're getting to a point where video at all isn't really necessary. With today's high end graphics you can just do story sequences using the game engine, which take up very little space and, because they're done in real time and are thus not compressed, have no artifacts.

[Mop it up]

This might sound like a dumb question, but if most 360 games do not take up more than 9 GB of disc space, can the wii play 360 games with HD stripped off?

No, because, to put it simply, the XBox 360 hardware is completely different than Wii hardware and therefore every game is coded differently.

[broodwars]

This might sound like a dumb question, but if most 360 games do not take up more than 9 GB of disc space, can the wii play 360 games with HD stripped off?

Depends on how the game is coded.  If it's a game where performance improves greatly by installing the game to the HDD, no the Wii certainly wouldn't handle the game as well.  Provided your typical game has SD and HD resolution textures/etc. on the disc already to deal with people playing with SD TVs, sure the Wii could probably handle a disc with just the SD content and the necessary coding changes to make it Wii-compatible.  Space and lack of support for HD textures is far from the Wii's only technical issues handling 360 ports, though.  The hardware is just fundamentally different.  Just see the Dead Rising Wii port for an example of where this can be problematic: very few zombies anywhere compared to the mobs of them on the 360.

[Mop it up]

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

Technically the N64 could do FMV, it just needed to be heavily compressed. I don't think it's an apt comparison. There was a lot that couldn't be done within 8MB, and what could be done required a lot more work. Looking at the XBox 360, it doesn't seem like there is anything that is being constrained due to needing more space.

[Kytim89]

This might sound like a dumb question, but if most 360 games do not take up more than 9 GB of disc space, can the wii play 360 games with HD stripped off?

Depends on how the game is coded.  If it's a game where performance improves greatly by installing the game to the HDD, no the Wii certainly wouldn't handle the game as well.  Provided your typical game has SD and HD resolution textures/etc. on the disc already to deal with people playing with SD TVs, sure the Wii could probably handle a disc with just the SD content and the necessary coding changes to make it Wii-compatible.  Space and lack of support for HD textures is far from the Wii's only technical issues handling 360 ports, though.  The hardware is just fundamentally different.  Just see the Dead Rising Wii port for an example of where this can be problematic: very few zombies anywhere compared to the mobs of them on the 360.

After seeing what happened to Dead Rising being ported to the wii, no thanks! It would be nice to get ample ports of PS360 games for the wii 2 though.

[NWR_insanolord]

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

Technically the N64 could do FMV, it just needed to be heavily compressed. I don't think it's an apt comparison. There was a lot that couldn't be done within 8MB, and what could be done required a lot more work. Looking at the XBox 360, it doesn't seem like there is anything that is being constrained due to needing more space.

The 360 and Wii can do that kind of video with compression as well. Show me a PlayStation game that couldn't be done on the N64 if the video and audio weren't there.

[broodwars]

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

Technically the N64 could do FMV, it just needed to be heavily compressed. I don't think it's an apt comparison. There was a lot that couldn't be done within 8MB, and what could be done required a lot more work. Looking at the XBox 360, it doesn't seem like there is anything that is being constrained due to needing more space.

No, on the 360 when a developer runs out of space, they just continue the game on a second disc.

*eyes his copies of Mass Effect 2, Last Remnant, and Lost Odyssey.*

That does remind me of something though: it's probably because we haven't seen much RPG support, but I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any multi-disc games on the Wii (not even when NISA released Sakura Wars 5 several months ago, despite releasing two discs on the PS2 with multiple languages).

[Mop it up]

The 360 and Wii can do that kind of video with compression as well. Show me a PlayStation game that couldn't be done on the N64 if the video and audio weren't there.

If the video and audio aren't there, what in the world are you playing?

I know what you mean, but that's making sacrifices. Currently no sacrifices in quality need to be made.

No, on the 360 when a developer runs out of space, they just continue the game on a second disc.

This was a lot more common on the PlayStation than it is now, and is still a viable option for those that need it without significantly raising the cost.

[Stratos]

Probably due to the developer stigma associated with Nintendo consoles. Remember there were barely half a dozen 2-disk games on the Gamecube and since developer effort and support is also lacking on Wii the chances of seeing these multi-disk games drops significantly (especially since it is 3rd parties that make multi-disk games, not Nintendo).

[Kytim89]

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

Technically the N64 could do FMV, it just needed to be heavily compressed. I don't think it's an apt comparison. There was a lot that couldn't be done within 8MB, and what could be done required a lot more work. Looking at the XBox 360, it doesn't seem like there is anything that is being constrained due to needing more space.

No, on the 360 when a developer runs out of space, they just continue the game on a second disc.

*eyes his copies of Mass Effect 2, Last Remnant, and Lost Odyssey.*

That does remind me of something though: it's probably because we haven't seen much RPG support, but I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any multi-disc games on the Wii (not even when NISA released Sakura Wars 5 several months ago, despite releasing two discs on the PS2 with multiple languages).

If the wii stays on the market for a few more years and the wii 2 stays on the side lines then the size of wii games will only get bigger. Eventually two disced wii games will start to pop up.

[NWR_insanolord]

The same thing was true with the N64 and the PlayStation. The extra space on the CDs was only necessary for full motion video and higher quality audio. Everything else could easily fit on an N64 cartridge. The real issue was the cost, not the space constraints.

Technically the N64 could do FMV, it just needed to be heavily compressed. I don't think it's an apt comparison. There was a lot that couldn't be done within 8MB, and what could be done required a lot more work. Looking at the XBox 360, it doesn't seem like there is anything that is being constrained due to needing more space.

No, on the 360 when a developer runs out of space, they just continue the game on a second disc.

*eyes his copies of Mass Effect 2, Last Remnant, and Lost Odyssey.*

That does remind me of something though: it's probably because we haven't seen much RPG support, but I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any multi-disc games on the Wii (not even when NISA released Sakura Wars 5 several months ago, despite releasing two discs on the PS2 with multiple languages).

If the wii stays on the market for a few more years and the wii 2 stays on the side lines then the size of wii games will only get bigger. Eventually two disced wii games will start to pop up.

Considering the fact that barely any games even use enough to need a dual layer disc, this isn't very likely. The only developer even close to pushing the limits of the Wii's capabilities is Nintendo, and releasing a multiple disc game just doesn't seem like something they'd do.

[Stratos]

Exactly what I meant. The closest thing to 2-disk games that Nintendo has released are the Mario Kart Double Dash + Bonus Disc and MGS:Twin Snakes which they published in tandem with Konami.