Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm glad they are working on Red Steel 3. I don't know about the vitality sensor, but I think 3 will have a decent online multiplayer, because that was the one thing they didn't put into RS2 that they really should have.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I've got something for us all to speculate on. It's something some of us have mentioned that Nintendo needs in the next system to bring them up to date feature-wise with the competition.

A background operating system that allows uniformity of function between different features and software. Such as Wii speak being independent from the game you are playing so that you can have a conversation with a friend while surfing the net, paying a game (same or different) or while browsing the WiiShop, background downloading (self explanatory), user accounts, etc. etc.

First we'll start with the Nintendo ES Operating System (NES OS?)that they were working on since way back before the release of the Wii
Inside Nintendo's ES Open-Source Operating System

[...]an open-source operating system from Nintendo, titled ES[...]was made public on August 30, 2006.
[...]
ES "runs natively on x86 (and qemu of course), kernel is written in C++, uses an ECMAScript interpreter for all of the userland, uses Cairo for graphics, and even has a port of [programming language] Squeak."

The OS is a 'research system,' meaning that there is no specific application for it at present, and is being used for experimentation. However, a story commenter on Gamedev.net theorizes: that it could be the framework for something like Microsoft's XNA, and is certainly expandable to platforms other than PC with a little work.

The commenter, 'ravyne2001' postulates: "Officially, it's simply a "research operating system." Something Nintendo is toying with and which may or may not lead to an eventual release in much the same way that Nintendo has always been in constant hardware development..."

"The working theory" he continues, "seems to be that this OS might be the early stages of something similar to Microsoft's XNA -- basically a sandbox environment which offers hardware acceleration and a userland based on some form of VM execution, ECMAscript in this instance. Although the current build is against X86, it could be ported over to PPC to run on the Wii, for instance."

For now, the operating system is laid bare to the public, which OSNews commentors seem to think is designed with broad adoption and simplicity in mind.

We know the next Wii needs a central OS to avoid the incompatible short sighted mess that is the current IOS we use now (older games can't use SDHC cards because it wasn't programmed for them, can't use WiiSpeak in multiplayer games because they weren't programmed for it, can't use whatever control scheme I want since it wasn't programmed for it, etc. etc.).

But the lead programmer for this ES Operating system left Nintendo for Google Japan....
http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/shiki-okasaka/7/876/5b3

Shiki Okasaka’s Experience

    *
      Software Engineer
      Google Japan Inc.

      (Public Company; 10,001 or more employees; GOOG; Internet industry)

      January 2008 — Present (2 years 4 months)
   
    *
      Group Manager
      Nintendo Co., Ltd.

      (Entertainment industry)

      August 1998 — December 2007 (9 years 5 months)

      Designed and developed the operating system for GameCube

But he is still working on the ES Operating system which just so happens to be under copyright by Nintendo & Google.
http://code.google.com/p/es-operating-system/

We are creating a new pure component operating system named ES. This  project was started by Shiki Okasaka and Kyu Ueno at Nintendo largely  affected by Rob Pike's "Systems Software Research is Irrelevant" talk in  2000. Since 2008, this project has been hosted in Google Code under the  copyright of both Google and Nintendo in hope we can reach more people  worldwide.

But what does all this mean? Is this something that Nintendo is hoping to make standard and use in the next home console?

Google just recently came out with their own browser and have an Operating System that soon to follow, could this code research have some overlap?

Is it possible that for the next generation Nintendo & Google team up to provide the software tools & enironment needed to build games and online infrastructure for future Nintendo systems?

"We propose an extensible component operating system architecture in  which an operating system kernel uses reflection to process C++ pure  virtual function based system calls and upcalls to provide a unified  programming environment for application, server, and kernel development.  We found that we could even develop file subsystems and a TCP/IP  protocol stack on an existing operating system based on this  architecture."

What does everyone think of a NintenGoogle team-up?

They do have common rivals in Apple & MS
and if the OS is any good, you can count on Sony licensing it* just to stick it to MS... and make things harder for Apple.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Great googly-moogly.

[Caliban]

I like. Nintendo and Google to rule the world... next, the universe.

[ShyGuy]

Hm. What if the 3DS and the Wii 2 both ran the same OS?

[BlackNMild2k1]

That would be pretty sweet and show that Nintendo is thinking beyond what they are currently working on now and looking toward what they could be working on 2-3 years from now (especially if they get some sort of market dominance next time around like they did this time around).

[Mop it up]

I like the channel setup that the current Wii has, I hope they incorporate that into their next system. It'd be nice if you could switch channels without exiting out of them, so you could pause the game you're playing and check other channels without having to return to the menu and reload the game and all that.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Hm. What if the 3DS and the Wii 2 both ran the same OS?

Will Connectivity make a comeback?

[Mop it up]

Couldn't the current Wii do that? It can download demos to the DS... now we just need someone brave enough to make a game that communicates with a DS in some way.

[Adrock]

This makes sense for Nintendo. Teaming with Google gives them a powerful partner with 2 open source operating systems. I guess it's certainly possible that Nintendo adopted Chrome or Android or even merged their own ES operating system with one of the two though it'd probably make more sense to base their own variation on Android rather than Chrome. Assuming one of these is the case, I wonder if Nintendo plans on making a portable and home console version to unify 3DS/Wii2. Also, would an Android variation give Nintendo access to Google's Android Market? Wouldn't that be something? I highly doubt Nintendo would license out their own games/apps but adopting Google's Android Market into their own shop would be pretty neato.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Couldn't the current Wii do that? It can download demos to the DS... now we just need someone brave enough to make a game that communicates with a DS in some way.

Nintendo is a coward.

[BlackNMild2k1]

This makes sense for Nintendo. Teaming with Google gives them a powerful partner with 2 open source operating systems. I guess it's certainly possible that Nintendo adopted Chrome or Android or even merged their own ES operating system with one of the two though it'd probably make more sense to base their own variation on Android rather than Chrome. Assuming one of these is the case, I wonder if Nintendo plans on making a portable and home console version to unify 3DS/Wii2. Also, would an Android variation give Nintendo access to Google's Android Market? Wouldn't that be something? I highly doubt Nintendo would license out their own games/apps but adopting Google's Android Market into their own shop would be pretty neato.

I'm sure they would have to be tweaked to work with the Nintendo system (done that way on purpose) so that they can be sold at a slightly different price so that Nintendo can get their cut for software that works on their system.

If they do use the ES OS and the ES is in someway part of the building blocks of Chrome or Android (which could be possible), then there would be a lot of possibilities opening up since the native code should be similar and lots of things will be easy to adapt/convert.

3DS with customized Android apps and built in Chrome 3DS browser(complete with compatible add-ons)

code that is readable by the Wii & 3DS so that games are truly compatible and connectivity can really be achieved.

Wii2 using the techspertise of Google to manage their Chrome Wii OS, built in browser & search. with the ability so sync your saves from your 3DS onto your Wii2 and truly use your 3DS as an extension of your Wii2.

I don't really want to start a HYPE train over it(yet), but it could be a really really smart move by Nintendo to get Google in their corner. It would be a very powerful ally with very deep pockets to help fight back the competition while giving us, the consumer, everything they wanted and all the things we never knew we wanted until they gave it to us.

[Ian Sane]

I think Nintendo can develop a decent OS for the Wii2 and 3DS on their own.  Al they have to do is actually THINK of how people and third parties will want to use it.  Nintendo's tunnel vision results in them making very short-sighting stupid mistakes that any idiot could avoid.  It's very odd that such a successful company flubs such easy stuff so routinely.  Design it for everybody, not just Nintendo.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They were developing this one on their own, and then their lead programmer moved to Google and continued making it on Google's dime and resources. Google plans for future while Nintendo focuses on the now, so combine the 2 and you get a system that does everything it needs to do now while still being secure yet expandable beyond just todays applications.

It's a perfect fit. NinGoogdo

[Adrock]

I think Nintendo can develop a decent OS for the Wii2 and 3DS on their own.  Al they have to do is actually THINK of how people and third parties will want to use it.  Nintendo's tunnel vision results in them making very short-sighting stupid mistakes that any idiot could avoid.  It's very odd that such a successful company flubs such easy stuff so routinely.  Design it for everybody, not just Nintendo.

Yes, anyone can develop an OS on their own. A lot of good that did Palm, right? The question, then, is why? Android and Chrome already exist. Nintendo would be wise to use that to their advantage (i.e. people already develop for Android) and build their own specific version of the OS rather than start from scratch.

I don't see how this could possibly be bad for Nintendo so long as they keep all the rights to their IPs and still control the hardware and licensing side of things. A partnership with Google gives Nintendo so many options and resources.

I'm sure they would have to be tweaked to work with the Nintendo system (done that way on purpose) so that they can be sold at a slightly different price so that Nintendo can get their cut for software that works on their system.

Not sure it'd need to be. Nintendo could very easily negotiate a cut of every app downloaded onto Nintendo hardware, as well as keeping 1st party software off of the general Android Market. A lot of variables here. Google is involved in everything nowadays. For example, they opened WiFi hotspots in like 40 some airports last year, if I remember correctly. That would be super valuable for the 3DS.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The reason why I say it would need to be tweaked to run on Nintendo Hardware is because Nintendo will make their hardware technically incompatible is some way necessary that the software needs to be tweaked to run on it. That is to make sure that not just any Android app will work on the system (needs to pass through Nintendo first), Nintendo can make sure they are getting their cut, and to ensure that software designed for Nintendo hardware will not be compatible with other android products. All they would want to benefit from is the large developer pool and friendly/familiar development environment that a Google OS/Browser would bring to the table.

and since Nintendo are the creators of ES, and Google has since adopted it, I would assume that ES might be the trojan horse in the the Chrome/Android community(at least I hope) that opens up millions to Nintendo software development.

Nintendo doesn't try to make money off of development kits, so making sure that everyone is already familiar with your programming environment and allowing them to basically work with what they got would be a big boon to the independent development houses.

[NWR_insanolord]

Stop calling the Chrome OS an OS. There's a reason it has the same name as Google's web browser, and that is because Chrome OS is a glorified web browser. In addition to being an awful excuse for an OS, it's especially awful for what Nintendo would want to do with it.

As for Android, I don't think Nintendo would cede that much power over their hardware to a third party. As much as I'd love an opportunity to try out Android, I really can't see Nintendo doing that.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I like the GameCube OS.  I think it boots faster than a DS.  I'm probably wrong.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Stop calling the Chrome OS an OS. There's a reason it has the same name as Google's web browser, and that is because Chrome OS is a glorified web browser. In addition to being an awful excuse for an OS, it's especially awful for what Nintendo would want to do with it.

As for Android, I don't think Nintendo would cede that much power over their hardware to a third party. As much as I'd love an opportunity to try out Android, I really can't see Nintendo doing that.

I didn't even know Chrome OS was released, I thought it was still a work in progress. Besides, i don't think I ever referred to a Chrome OS.... maybe a Google OS, but I the only OS I think I mentioned was a Wii2 OS made from the ES OS, but I'm too lazy to go back and look.

As for Android, I never meant a straight up licensing of Android. I was talking about ES OS being the base or share some sort of code with Android and Nintendo being able to take advantage of that familiarity to gain support for their future hardware.

[NWR_insanolord]

I know you weren't talking about Chrome, but Adrock was referring to it like it was an actual operating system, talking about it in the same breath as Android.

And if you're not going to license Android, what's the point of using it at all? Nintendo's never had a problem with the technical side of it. They're perfectly capable of coding the OS themselves; it's not like using the base of Android would let them do something they couldn't have done on their own. The area in which Nintendo could have trouble is in the conceptual sense, figuring out what features to include and how they should be implemented. Starting from the base of Android wouldn't help them in that regard anymore than spending time using Android and other operating systems and observing how they work.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was going with the speculation that the base of Android could be the ES OS that Nintendo is already co-copyrighted on. and that is why they could be similar, or similar enough to have some interoperability.

[Adrock]

I know you weren't talking about Chrome, but Adrock was referring to it like it was an actual operating system, talking about it in the same breath as Android.

Alright, relax.... I admit I don't know much about Chrome outside of a very basic understanding of cloud computing. Every news piece I've read, and I read a lot of them when I supposed to be working, refers to it as an operating system. No need to jump down my throat. You're acting like I killed your dog and called your mother a whore....

In my defense, I did say it'd make more sense to work off of Android than Chrome and most of my suggestions refer specifically to using Android. I still think that it's a good idea. There's nothing inherently wrong with Nintendo developing their own OS as they're certainly capable of doing so. However, I still think there are more advantages to using Android.

The area in which Nintendo could have trouble is in the conceptual sense, figuring out what features to include and how they should be implemented. Starting from the base of Android wouldn't help them in that regard anymore than spending time using Android and other operating systems and observing how they work.

Isn't that something Google could help Nintendo with?

[Chozo Ghost]

Sony's tunnel vision results in them making very short-sighting stupid mistakes that any idiot could avoid.

I went ahead and fixed that for you, Ian.

I know you couldn't really be talking about Nintendo, because after all they are the most successful video gaming company of this generation with the highest market share.

[Adrock]

Well, just because you're successful, doesn't mean you can't or don't make mistakes. Nintendo made a bunch of really boneheaded mistakes this generation. I don't think a list really needs to be compiled.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo's tunnel vision results in them making very short-sighting stupid mistakes that any idiot could avoid.

I went ahead and fixed that for you, Ian.

I know you couldn't really be talking about Nintendo, because after all they are the most successful video gaming company of this generation with the highest market share.

No. He had it right the first time.
Successful or not, Nintendo has made lots of short sighted stupid oversights that could have been avoided and it wouldn't have lessened the success they have right now, but possibly increase it.

Things like Wii Speak are stupid since Nintendo didn't leave enough memory to expand upon what was already in the box, old games can't access new features like SDHC since Nintendo has some sort of retarded IOC firmware that isn't BC with older software (something a more centralized OS would fix), 720p output.... The Xbox did it and the Wii is more powerful than the xbox, 512MB internal storage... even in 2006 1GB SD cards were like $5 for the average consumer.... Someone ordering on Nintendo's volume could probably have gotten them for $1 a piece or upgraded to 2GB internal.  The amount of stuff people would have room to download without Nintendo having to go back and reprogram SD support would have been worth the pennies per unit cost. Not allowing loading from the SD card to save internal memory space. Friend codes over user log-in. Not enough RAM, would 128MB really have cost too much(would probably fix the WiiSpeak quality issue)? And I'm sure the list could  go on, and on, and on.

I know there are lots of reasons that some of these things didn't happen, but some of them were easily predictable (especially if you have insight into the company's future plans) and very easily avoidable.