Topic: [SPOILERS HERE BEWARE] The Ending of Skyward Sword

[leahsdad]

I wanted to start a thread about the ending of Skyward Sword, one with tons of spoilers.  Tons.  Everything can be a spoiler.  Even your punctuation.

Was I the only one who was somewhat let down by the fight with Demise?  It was good, and fun, and difficult, but the last fight with Ghirahim was just so much better, IMO.  The bit with knocking off bits of his sword, going down each platform, knocking him off, it was all so much fun and seemed to be this great coda to the combat that we got introduced to during our first fight with him way back in the beginning of the game.  If the game just ended there, I would have been happy.

But with Demise, I feel like the game let me be a whole lot more sloppy.  Granted, I had 4 Heart Potions, ++, but if you asked me exactly how that fight went down, I'd be hard pressed to explain it.  There was lightning.  Uh, I did a few skyward strikes with lightning.   Something else, a little waggly, can't remember.  And I just beat this game 2 weeks ago.

[TrueNerd]

I do agree that the fight with Ghirahim was the better of the two fights, on a gameplay level and a narrative level. The two kind of fuel each other. Demise also just seemed like a Todd McFarlane creation that didn't really fit with the aesthetic of the game (or the series) at all. I mean I get what they were going for with him and I'm glad that they didn't pull Ganon out at the last second, but I don't think Demise was entirely successful.

[Luigi Dude]

Yeah I agree, the final boss fight is the only part of the game I was actually disappointed with.  Every other boss fight in the game was quite creative with it's combat and how you fought the bosses.  But then you get to Demise and suddenly the fight turns into something from the previous 3D Zelda's where all your doing is just dodging his attack and stabbing when he's open.  Not to mention the second stage of the boss fight is basically the same damn thing as the first except Demise gains a lighting attack.  Every other boss fight in the game has a completely different second stage that changes the fight up where the boss changes their attack moves but Demise doesn't even though he's the final boss.

Plus the most dissapointed fact is the director of Swyward Sword, Fujibayashi, was the director of the Oracle games and Minish Cap and those games all had great final boss fights.  Minish Cap in particular had an epic three form final boss fight where each form being completely different and requiring a different strategy for each one.  I was hoping Skyward Sword would have something similar only to end up getting something that was just beyond lame compared to what Fujibayashi has done in his previous games.

[Evan_B]

Well, Demise seemed like a lesson in stamina, requiring 22 hits before moving into his final phase. His attacks are wide and very nasty if you don't know how to perfect block. The final phase is pretty wacked out, too- Demise's Skyward Strikes are really hard to avoid if you don't know how to approach it. I mean, personally, I would have preferred Ghirahim's final duel to be a part of the final battle, with no opportunity to heal up before fighting Demise, but that might have been too much. Demise was suitably epic, though.

[Kytim89]

Ghirahim wasn't really defeated at the end was he? I would have prefered Nintendo take the Mass Effect alternate ending thing and have the option of defeating Demise without actually fighting him and then have Ghirahim take up his mantle as the Lord of Darkness, absorb his power and become the most difficult boss in Zelda history.
 
After collecting the Hero's verses, or whatever, I was so burned out on the Sky Keep dungeon. I am no good at spider puzzles, so finding the Triforces was kind of a pain. IHere is what Sky Keep should have been:
 

• Courage: Link must swim through water to reach a drowning friend despit his oxygen meter depleting and then must run through fire to save another friend despite his health dropping to zero.
• Wisdom: The player must solve a brain busting puzzle to gain the Triforce of Wisdom.
• Power: The player must defeat a powerful mini-boss.

[Evan_B]

Ghirahim wasn't really defeated at the end was he? I would have prefered Nintendo take the Mass Effect alternate ending thing and have the option of defeating Demise without actually fighting him and then have Ghirahim take up his mantle as the Lord of Darkness, absorb his power and become the most difficult boss in Zelda history.
 
After collecting the Hero's verses, or whatever, I was so burned out on the Sky Keep dungeon. I am no good at spider puzzles, so finding the Triforces was kind of a pain. IHere is what Sky Keep should have been:
 

• Courage: Link must swim through water to reach a drowning friend despit his oxygen meter depleting and then must run through fire to save another friend despite his health dropping to zero.
• Wisdom: The player must solve a brain busting puzzle to gain the Triforce of Wisdom.
• Power: The player must defeat a powerful mini-boss.

But... Sky Keep was awesome. AWESOME, I SAY.

[Kytim89]

Ghirahim wasn't really defeated at the end was he? I would have prefered Nintendo take the Mass Effect alternate ending thing and have the option of defeating Demise without actually fighting him and then have Ghirahim take up his mantle as the Lord of Darkness, absorb his power and become the most difficult boss in Zelda history.
 
After collecting the Hero's verses, or whatever, I was so burned out on the Sky Keep dungeon. I am no good at spider puzzles, so finding the Triforces was kind of a pain. IHere is what Sky Keep should have been:
 

• Courage: Link must swim through water to reach a drowning friend despit his oxygen meter depleting and then must run through fire to save another friend despite his health dropping to zero.
• Wisdom: The player must solve a brain busting puzzle to gain the Triforce of Wisdom.
• Power: The player must defeat a powerful mini-boss.

But... Sky Keep was awesome. AWESOME, I SAY.

They made you revisit past dungeons for like the third or fourth time.

[Evan_B]

Ghirahim wasn't really defeated at the end was he? I would have prefered Nintendo take the Mass Effect alternate ending thing and have the option of defeating Demise without actually fighting him and then have Ghirahim take up his mantle as the Lord of Darkness, absorb his power and become the most difficult boss in Zelda history.
 
After collecting the Hero's verses, or whatever, I was so burned out on the Sky Keep dungeon. I am no good at spider puzzles, so finding the Triforces was kind of a pain. IHere is what Sky Keep should have been:
 

• Courage: Link must swim through water to reach a drowning friend despit his oxygen meter depleting and then must run through fire to save another friend despite his health dropping to zero.
• Wisdom: The player must solve a brain busting puzzle to gain the Triforce of Wisdom.
• Power: The player must defeat a powerful mini-boss.

But... Sky Keep was awesome. AWESOME, I SAY.

They made you revisit past dungeons for like the third or fourth time.

They made you revisit dungeon THEMES. Each room was unique from the original dungeons and had puzzles that used each item.

[nickmitch]

I thought the boss battle with Demise needed to be better. I had some Heart Potion ++s  and a fairy, and while I used one fairy (mostly out of laziness) and one serving of potion, I probably only needed one of those. When I was explicitly told that I couldn't use the skyward strike, I kept it out of my mind for the bulk of the second phase. I actually did it by accident while literally scratching my trying to figure out what to do. In any event, it just lacked epicness (epicity?). There wasn't a ton of build up. You just kind of fought, won and saved the day. No desperation, no nothing. It seemed like Giraheim served a guy whose ass he could've kicked himself.

And Kytim is out of his mind. That dungeon was awesome. The way you got from one room to another was a puzzle in itself. How cool was that?

[Kytim89]

I thought the boss battle with Demise needed to be better. I had some Heart Potion ++s  and a fairy, and while I used one fairy (mostly out of laziness) and one serving of potion, I probably only needed one of those. When I was explicitly told that I couldn't use the skyward strike, I kept it out of my mind for the bulk of the second phase. I actually did it by accident while literally scratching my trying to figure out what to do. In any event, it just lacked epicness (epicity?). There wasn't a ton of build up. You just kind of fought, won and saved the day. No desperation, no nothing. It seemed like Giraheim served a guy whose ass he could've kicked himself.

And Kytim is out of his mind. That dungeon was awesome. The way you got from one room to another was a puzzle in itself. How cool was that?

I didn;t like it. I would have prefered trials instead.

[Lithium]

Yeah I agree that the Girahim fight was leaps and bounds better than Demise. I dont remember even getting hit on the Demise fight. It was a great set-piece but as a boss fight it fell short.

[nickmitch]

I really thought quick blocking his rapid succession sword swinging would yield some sort of result, but it got me nothing. Mastering that actually took most of my hearts.

[leahsdad]

I thought the boss battle with Demise needed to be better. I had some Heart Potion ++s  and a fairy, and while I used one fairy (mostly out of laziness) and one serving of potion, I probably only needed one of those. When I was explicitly told that I couldn't use the skyward strike, I kept it out of my mind for the bulk of the second phase. I actually did it by accident while literally scratching my trying to figure out what to do. In any event, it just lacked epicness (epicity?). There wasn't a ton of build up. You just kind of fought, won and saved the day. No desperation, no nothing. It seemed like Giraheim served a guy whose ass he could've kicked himself.

And Kytim is out of his mind. That dungeon was awesome. The way you got from one room to another was a puzzle in itself. How cool was that?

And the buildup to the last Ghirahim fight, where you're just mowing down waves and waves and waves of those red and blue goblin guys.   Up until that point of the game, you had taken on maybe 5?  At most 6 at a time?  And you're now working your way down, taking on 20 or 30, wave after wave, smiting them like Sauron at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring?  That was not just epic.  That was me, looking up the word "epic" in the dictionary, and the definition reading "Dude, that last part of Skyward Sword.  Remember that?  THAT."

I also cannot fathom disliking the Skykeep dungeon.  The minute I realized that the rooms moved I just thought "Oh crap.   It's the Cube Movie.  In videogame form."  All that was missing was the guy who could factor prime numbers.

[Drizzt]

I thought the Demise battle was epic and extremely intense because i had no idea you could hit him with a lightning strike I found that out months later. I bashed him with my shield, guarded, dodged and slashed for what felt like forever and only ended up winning due to my invincibility potion. Skyward Sword is one the best games i've ever played and I enjoyed the ending.

[TrueNerd]

Yeah, Sky Keep is one of the best dungeons of the whole franchise, let alone of the game. I can't believe they didn't come up with that concept before this game.

[Adrock]

The entire end game made no sense. After awakening Zelda in the present, Impa should have destroyed the Gate of Time like she destroyed the other Gate of Time. Then, no more things could happen unless Ghirahim insisted on fighting Link without any hope of resurrecting Demise. That negates the entire series and timeline. Then again, write a better story. Really, the events of the game as constructed shouldn't even exist. If dropping an island onto Demise/The Imprisoned was all that needed to be done, Hylia could have done that herself ages ago.

As for the actual final boss, my main issue was that, for me, The Wind Waker set the bar so high, managing to be even cooler than Ocarina of Time's Ganondorf/Ganon final boss. That's not really Skyward Sword's fault; it's Nintendo's for not being able to come up with anything even remotely close. It's almost unfair to compare any other Zelda end game to The Wind Waker's because that was all "Holy ****, that just happened!" Nintendo could stand to move away from bosses that simply block 90% of Link's attacks but I liked it for what it was. Additionally, I wish I cared more or felt more threatened by Demise but like The Cloud of Darkness in Final Fantasy III or Necron in Final Fantasy IX, he shows up at the very end. It was still a cool boss battle but it lacked emotion. Demise was more in my way than someone I felt compelled to defeat.

[Evan_B]

The entire end game made no sense. After awakening Zelda in the present, Impa should have destroyed the Gate of Time like she destroyed the other Gate of Time. Then, no more things could happen unless Ghirahim insisted on fighting Link without any hope of resurrecting Demise. That negates the entire series and timeline. Then again, write a better story. Really, the events of the game as constructed shouldn't even exist. If dropping an island onto Demise/The Imprisoned was all that needed to be done, Hylia could have done that herself ages ago.

As for the actual final boss, my main issue was that, for me, The Wind Waker set the bar so high, managing to be even cooler than Ocarina of Time's Ganondorf/Ganon final boss. That's not really Skyward Sword's fault; it's Nintendo's for not being able to come up with anything even remotely close. It's almost unfair to compare any other Zelda end game to The Wind Waker's because that was all "Holy ****, that just happened!" Nintendo could stand to move away from bosses that simply block 90% of Link's attacks but I liked it for what it was. Additionally, I wish I cared more or felt more threatened by Demise but like The Cloud of Darkness in Final Fantasy III or Necron in Final Fantasy IX, he shows up at the very end. It was still a cool boss battle but it lacked emotion. Demise was more in my way than someone I felt compelled to defeat.

I think, the main point of Skyward Sword- especially the final portion of the game, was to empower the player and make them feel as if they were holding the Master Sword. The journey down to fight Ghirahim allowed you to literally mow down a ridiculous amount of enemies. You stood toe-to-toe with the Demon King. You become that hero.

As for the story not making any sense- it was more than just dropping an island on the Sealed Grounds that killed Demise- it was using the Triforce, a device that the goddess herself could not use. I mean, Impa was probably relieved that the whole journey was done with- she wasn't thinking about the immediate danger. Everyone can get careless for a minute, especially when the perceived danger has come to a close.

When you really think about the scope of the game, there's a whole lot going on here. Time travel, obtaining the WHOLE Triforce, forging the Master Sword, and defeating the very root of evil. To me the final set piece was really epic, and a suitable ending. It was just you and Demise, who possesses the spirit of Zelda within him- he's the Demon King, and if you don't stop him- there's no goddess to fix things. The rest of the timeline- Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker... it all doesn't happen. However, when you really take note of the last sequence of the game, there's a little bit more going on. Link seals Demise in the Master Sword. That means that as long as the Master Sword exists, Demise will too- his spirit and legacy will continue on.

BUT, I digress. I just think that the ending is a little underplayed because of the presentation values.

[Adrock]

As for the story not making any sense- it was more than just dropping an island on the Sealed Grounds that killed Demise- it was using the Triforce, a device that the goddess herself could not use.

I don't know. I'm still calling shenanigans. All the Triforce did was drop a large mass of earth onto Demise. I feel like Nintendo could have handled that better. That doesn't change the fact that Link and Zelda are standing right in front of the Triforce at the very end. Why don't they use it to destroy Demise's essence from being reborn and haunting their descendants? "I wish for the destruction of Demise... Again." The end. Again, that unravels the entire series due to a single logical misstep. No other Zelda game showed that a wish could destroy evil. Skyward Sword sets the precedent and its place as the first game chronologically makes the absence of a similar subsequent wish all the more baffling. How come no one ever bothered to make the same wish? That's why it makes no sense. That's just bad writing.

I mean, Impa was probably relieved that the whole journey was done with- she wasn't thinking about the immediate danger. Everyone can get careless for a minute, especially when the perceived danger has come to a close.

Ehh, I still consider that poor writing. Centuries of planning almost undone by one woman's carelessness. That just makes Impa look like an asshole. I don't really agree that the perceived danger was anywhere close to coming to a close when the guy who was stalking Zelda and taunting Link for the entire game was at large and they were all standing next to a time travel gate.

[Evan_B]

I don't know. I'm still calling shenanigans. All the Triforce did was drop a large mass of earth onto Demise. I feel like Nintendo could have handled that better. That doesn't change the fact that Link and Zelda are standing right in front of the Triforce at the very end. Why don't they use it to destroy Demise's essence from being reborn and haunting their descendants? "I wish for the destruction of Demise... Again." The end. Again, that unravels the entire series due to a single logical misstep. No other Zelda game showed that a wish could destroy evil. Skyward Sword sets the precedent and its place as the first game chronologically makes the absence of a similar subsequent wish all the more baffling. How come no one ever bothered to make the same wish? That's why it makes no sense. That's just bad writing.

I'm quite certain using the Triforce is kinda a one-time deal. Also, Link is the one who assembled it, so wouldn't he be the only one who could use it? I think you're taking things a little too literally- though it did drop the island on the Sealed Grounds, I think that was a sort of symbolic device showing that the evil had been conquered, especially if you consider that the temple held the Triforce and that the statue of the Goddess was where you first learned of this mission. I dunno, I don't think they wrote that part as, "And then they kill Demise by dropping an island on him." The wish was what stopped him, not the island.

Ehh, I still consider that poor writing. Centuries of planning almost undone by one woman's carelessness. That just makes Impa look like an asshole. I don't really agree that the perceived danger was anywhere close to coming to a close when the guy who was stalking Zelda and taunting Link for the entire game was at large and they were all standing next to a time travel gate.

I understand, but if the game is really the time-travel mindfuck that it's supposed to be, you have to consider that Impa already knew this was going to happen and had to let things play out the way they did. And if you don't, then that supports the idea that Demise wasn't killed by the island and rather lives on in the Master Sword instead of the spike at the base of the Sealed Grounds.

[Caterkiller]

You can't argue about a Zelda story, or any video game story for that matter. Because the writers are generally crap when it comes to keeping things consistent, or crap at having characters do the rational thing.  Then you bust your buts trying to interpret something that will never ever be explained. Then when they try to explain in through interview or something, the fans go crazy cause it;s not what they were expecting.

It is dumb Link and Zelda didn't just wish him away. Doesn't matter how it's assembled or by who, as seen at the end of WW when the King of Red Lions sneaks up and touches the triforce before Gandorf. He too wished for "hope" instead of an end all deal.

I loved the boss battle, the setting, but I think you would all be doing yourselves a favor by not trying to decipher a Zelda's story too deeply. Or any game for that matter. It just pains the heart when you realize you know more about the mythos and rules of the story than the game makers do.

If only they could be as well knit as One Piece.

[Evan_B]

If only they could be as well knit as One Piece.

Bahahahahahhaha good one.

But seriously, I agree. Take the story at face value, and enjoy the game.

[Adrock]

I've long resigned myself to the fact that videogame stories, especially Zelda, are generally not very strong. However, for the purposes of discussing the ending of Skyward Sword, I felt like it was worth noting the inconsistencies. I did spend a considerable amount of time typing up my thoughts on the actual gameplay side of the final boss fight. That said, I was a bit more critcal of the story than I usually am with Zelda games because I felt the rest of the game was lacking. Not bad per se; just lacking. The story's many issues just compounded the rest of the game's flaws.

[UncleBob]

You can't wish to "destroy all evil".  Such a wish would destroy free will, which would be an evil act in-and-of itself.  Thus the person making the wish and the object granting the wish would be evil and have to be destroyed.

[Caterkiller]

If only they could be as well knit as One Piece.

Bahahahahahhaha good one.

You must only watch the anime. Either that or you've never payed attention to it all.

@Uncle Bob - I don't think they have to destroy all evil, just the spirit or soul of the Dark King, or the essence of Ganondorf, what ever.

[Mop it up]

The final fight was thematically interesting, but it was pretty easy. It did take me a bit to figure out the second part, but once I did it was cake. After it was over, I was honestly sitting there with a blank expression, and I may have even said "Is that it?" aloud, expecting another form to pop out.

The previous fight with Ghirahim was conceptually better, even if it too was easy, and even if I don't like Giraham as a villain. I got smacked more times plowing through the mob of Bokoblins than I did with the bosses.

That's kind of a problem I had with all enemies in the game, they're mostly a puzzle. When I played through Hero Mode, it was still easy, because I already knew how to defeat everything and double damage didn't matter because I seldom got hit. Still a great game though, and I don't mind it being on the easy side, but I may not find it as replayable as some of the others in the series.