Topic: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU (& 3DS)

[Oblivion]

Oh, but the skin tight outfit isn't a fucking problem? Oh my lordy, you guys are god damn hypocrites. Where the **** were you guys when she was "objectified" with her skin tight jumpsuit?

Or ****, when you got rewarded pictures of her in a bikini in the first three games?

But holy ****, add heels and all of a sudden OBJECTIFICATION! SEXISM! FEMALE EMPOWERMENT!

Oh shut the **** up. Samus was never about female empowerment. She didn't even have characteriszation until Other M, and we all know how that went. This is no different.


Oh, and don't blame this on Japanese culture. Don't make me laugh. We are just as bad here in the western world, but here we has sexualization but try to hide that and make people feel bad for liking sex. At least in japan they like sex and they are proud of it.

[Soren]

...I am not upset about her bust appearing to have grown from last time...that is just an annoyance that gamers have to deal with. 

No. Just no.


It's not just "an annoyance we have to deal with", it's unnecessary character design. It's problematic and it needs to stop.

[Spak-Spang]

You know what...the skin tight outfit actually DOES bother me...thank you very much.  EXCEPT that it actually makes since if you are piloting a mechanical suit.  You are wearing extremely heavy mechanical armor. 

I always assumed that the skin tight suit was designed with Nero-connections to the suit.  That the suit is literally designed for the armor.

It actually makes since.  However, come on.  The heels are STUPID.  Who would go into combat and fight with heels?  Who would wear heels inside a mechanical suit?  Who would design mechanical rocket books which only women would wear, because they are designed to be attractive and raise the height of the woman wearing them?

The outfit of Zero Suit Samus, and even the name is subject to debate.  However, several decades and history of science fiction has shown a need for some sort of muscle and nero-connections to the mechanical suit...which usually equates to skintight (suba like) suits for both men and women. 

So I can excuse the outfit...even though it is not my favorite. 

[Spak-Spang]

...I am not upset about her bust appearing to have grown from last time...that is just an annoyance that gamers have to deal with. 

No. Just no.


It's not just "an annoyance we have to deal with", it's unnecessary character design. It's problematic and it needs to stop.

It is changing in the Western game design some.  But we really do need a change.  Brawl's design was pretty good.  It was a form fitting suit, but I didn't feel like it was designed to be sexy.  I do not feel that is true about Samus' design in this game. 

But seriously, US comics, Japanese comics and games, and such need to grow up.  Let's start treating female characters with respect.  It doesn't mean you can't make them attractive, or that they might wear attractive clothing...but we can think about their personalities and try to design realistic clothing for their task.

[Oblivion]

You, sir, are fucking brainwashed.

To think that a skintight outfit is objectifying her less than heels is pure and simple craziness. I'm out. It's obvious that I can't hope to win against such

Actually, **** it, I will argue some more. Today my speech professor showed us some current country music videos for reasons that aren't relevant to this story. In every single one, about six of them, featured scantily clad women posing around a man or just in the middle of the shot directly looking at the camera, and by extension, the audience. You can find the same in most music. Western or otherwise.

You will find the same for Hollywood, too. That's American by the way. Not Japanese nor games.

Same for television. Take a look at any episode of GoT.

You are brainwashed to think that Japanese culture and games are so morally fucked up. That women are so objectified and demeaned in their culture, when it is just as bad, if not worse in American and other western countries.

If you want to call attention to this issue, fine, but don't fucking single out Japan as being the culprit when the rest of the world is just as bad.

[Spak-Spang]

Brainwashed?

"You know what...the skin tight outfit actually DOES bother me...thank you very much.  EXCEPT that it actually makes since if you are piloting a mechanical suit.  You are wearing extremely heavy mechanical armor. "

Did you not read this part.

"The outfit of Zero Suit Samus, and even the name is subject to debate.  However, several decades and history of science fiction has shown a need for some sort of muscle and nero-connections to the mechanical suit...which usually equates to skintight (suba like) suits for both men and women. "

Or this part.

Basically, it does bother me.  I hate any over sexualizing female characters.  (My original post stated I accept that it is going to happen...but not because I like it...but because the world is stupid.)

However, high heels have often been used in adult industry, and glamour industry and its sole purpose is to make women look more beautiful by making them appear taller.  And you know what...there is a place for women to wear high heels, because THEY want to feel beautiful.  I have no problem with that. 

However, it kinda bothers me that they artists never taken into consideration practicality when designing women's outfits in games.  High heels would never be used by any real female hero in the field.  Be it Buffy, Super Girl, Wonder Woman, or Samus. 

Now, the Zero-Suit, the name is annoying and stupid, but I understand where it came from.  Samus is usually wearing a mechanical suit.  And going back to again to why her outfit could be debated as acceptable is that she was/is wearing a body suit arguably designed to link her into her armor.  There is actual purpose to her design in clothing...potentially.  Give me an argument why her boots MUST be rocket boots?  There is none. 

Yes, women are objectified in the west...but it is less.  You know why?  Because we had a several Woman's rights movements fight for equal rights and treatment, and the west still has problems, but it is better.  Yes, you can point to movies and music videos which are really the lowest common denominator to point to supporting this.

I actually live in Korea.  I know how at least Korea treats women, and when I visited Japan and talked to my Korean, Japanese, and foreign friends who have been to Korea...I have seen several signs that Japan has an unhealthy track record with how they treat women in their media.

But, you know what, if your argument to me is...I shouldn't be selectively upset but upset by all incidents...then I would agree with you...and I still find Samus' rocket shoes stupid. 

But brainwashed?  Seriously...that is your attack on me because I have a different opinion?  Which is actually NOT different. 

[Spak-Spang]

Yes,  America has a HUGE problem of using sex to target men.  It is like advertising for idiots.

Are demographic is 18-30 year old males...what do we do.  Sex, Violence, and if you can fit in some story go for it.

It is everywhere, I listed (even in my original post) American examples.  So again I don't know why are you so upset with me.

[ShyGuy]

This is big talk coming from somebody who has that scantily cald raptor as his avatar, posing all sexy like.

[Spak-Spang]

It's OK my Raptor is wearing rubber gloves.  (Though that is one aspect of the design I am not happy with.)

[Adrock]

Gloves and yet no pants.

[Spak-Spang]

To be fair...no shirt either...it is wearing a backpack. 

[pokepal148]

I like Video Games.

[ShyGuy]

I like Video Games.

Who likes video games? Arguing about video games is the new hotness.

[azeke]

I like Video Games.

Duuuuuude.

[Spak-Spang]

Getting back on subject.  I kinda like the look of Greninja. 

The tongue as a scarf is clever...though I was hoping for some more interesting animations and attacks with the tongue. 

I would have loved for it to be treated more like a "whip" Spinning around and lashing out with it.  It could have been really interesting.  Not as special moves as just regular attacks.  Or at least as one regular attack. 

[Caterkiller]

What? Caterkiller hasn't come in to comment about Ridley!? FOR SHAME CATERKILLER!

I didn't say much on Ridley as Adrok pointed out and I'm sorry but yeah I am disappointed a bit. My hope isn't entirely diminished though. A few things really stick out to me and keep my delusions in order.

1 - For the second time Sakurai has yet to call Ridley by name. In the Japanese Miiverse he is referred to as "the trauma of Samus" and in english "An enemy from Samus's past..." Fast forward 8 months and he mentions other boss characters will make an appearance and proceeds to show Ridley's shadow. A big part of me is asking why is he being so cryptic with the way he is handling Ridley?

As far as I can remember, even with Melee, Sakurai has hinted at Secret characters but nothing like this. Sakurai likes to be vague and likes to troll as seen with his Miiverse posts. So I wouldn't put it past him to really mess with the fans expectations.

2 - Having one role in the game doesn't equate to a characters only role. ROB started as just another generic Goomba in our major subspace reveal with Brawl. Ultimately he was to be a secret character that was pushed right in our faces. Giga Bowser was once a boss and then became playable, even if just under special circumstances. Despite not even being the same person, Toon Link in the Spirit Tracks stage is replaced by Alfonzo when Toon Link is selected. To an even lesser extent, Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong in 75 Meters.

I think it's completely in the realm of possibility that even if Ridley is a boss he could still be playable. What was shadowed in the Direct was undoubtedly Other M Ridley. The boney tail, the spikes coming out of the shoulders, and the wing fingers extending past the skin are all from the cloned Other M Ridley. The Smash Bros brawl version of Ridley who was modeled after his Super Metroid/Zero Mission look could be the playable character. Oh and I bring up Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong in 75 meters because it still helps my case, they are different characters just like Other M Ridley and classic Ridley that stole the baby Metroid.

3 - Was anyone else even slightly puzzled at the choppiness of the shadow's animation? Aside from Giga Bowser, every boss that has come before has a very smooth transition from being idle to moving again. This Ridley shadow moved like someone was controlling him with an analog stick. Look back at any Brawl boss or master hand, the fluidity is there, even with yellow devil. After having 2 full on boss battles in Brawl I can't imagine this Ridley's movement pattern to be lacking fluidity even if the game is still under development.

With that being said it also came to mind that, what if that's Ridley's gimmick? He is really clumsy on the ground and weak but in the air he is a beast? Opposite of Little Mac? What if like Peach, Ridley has a hovering mechanic that just lets him float at a certain altitude and attack from there? That could be his unique gimmick and I do have some suspicion that was what we were seeing do to the choppy/sudden animation.

It's also come to my attention that during that portion of the direct Ridley's shadow did grab Pikachu. Seeing the shadow of Pikachu's tail and Ridley's body made me realize the wings are huge but his body isn't so big that he couldn't be playable.

4 - "Other bosses will make an appearance." In the context it just screams Ridley is a boss on Pyrosphere and nothing more. Once again though I think about the Brawl Dojo update, "There's a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar." Does anyone else remember this and the wars and panic it started? Holy crap! Here is the link. http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/lucas.html

Other bosses will make an appearance huh? What does that mean exactly? I consider Metaknight and Ganondorf as bosses too and they will certainly make appearances.

I think those are all for my major points. Look I know I'm reaching especially with my last point but if Sakurai wasn't such a playful guy who toys with our expectations I would take everything at face value but until the game comes out with no playable Ridley I will always have hope.

I'm not saying Ridley is in, I only ever claimed that like 2 weeks ago, fufufu, but I think there is still a possibility. Though I'll shut up about it for now. Well for most of the time. For a week. I won't.

One thing that really stuck out to me during this Direct is how much Sakurai has decided to remove random elements from the characters themselves. He has acknowledged the people who like to play competitively and it's showing in more ways than just the For Glory mode.

1 - Random tripping gone! Nuff said!
2 - Olimar plucks Pikmin in a set order.
3 - King Dedede - Only throws Gordos now. They were insanely powerful in Brawl and that random bit of luck caused me a lot of games at home with my Dedede maining brother.
4 - No forced switches or changes mid match. None period. I think this is a great move despite losing a bit of uniqueness from the characters affected.
5- Diddy Kong's jet barrels no longer fly separately when they are knocked off.

These changes I think are all absolutely fantastic and it makes me really wonder about Luigi's torpedo, Peach's turnips, and Game & Watch's hammer. I'd rather all(or maybe the majority) of the unpredictable aspects of the game come from items and stage hazards and not the characters themselves and so far that's what is happening.

[pokepal148]

The gordo change is interesting because as a person who used dedede as a secondary character I know that thrown waddle dees/doos cannot be reflected but gordos can, I wonder if the gordo will inherit that attribute from it's brethren,

My biggest concern however is with dedede's final smash being changed, mainly because I feel that his was relatively well balanced compared to most of them which were either usless/stupid, generic one blast triforce slash type deal, or super sonic with a few unique ones in the mix.

[Luigi Dude]

My biggest concern however is with dedede's final smash being changed, mainly because I feel that his was relatively well balanced compared to most of them which were either usless/stupid, generic one blast triforce slash type deal, or super sonic with a few unique ones in the mix.

If his Final Smash is changed it'll probably involve him turning into Masked Dedede from Super Star Ultra where he'll gain his new hammer that fires missiles and the ability to do a movable hammer spin attack.

[nickmitch]

In case you missed it: 128 new Smash Bros (Wii U) screens

[Caterkiller]

In case you missed it: 128 new Smash Bros (Wii U) screens

Who can possibly complain about a pick of the day when we've been given over 300 extra picks in like 2 weeks time?

So anyone want to comment on my Ridley delusions?

[Luigi Dude]

So anyone want to comment on my Ridley delusions?

You're not delusional, you're post pretty much says it all.  Sakurai knows Ridley is heavily requested by fans and could be doing his best to troll everyone right now.  Considering how much time has passed since the Pyrosphere was first shown and he hasn't shown Ridley as a stage hazard yet, as well as what happened in the Direct, it does point more to Ridley being playable.  The more he prolongs our suffering, the more Ridley's chances only increase.

I mean, come on.  Sakurai pretty much knows what the Smash Bros fans are like and what's being talked about in the message boards.  It's like how when the Palutena picture which people still don't know if it's real or not was first revealed, and the next day we get a picture of the 3DS Kid Icarus stage.  Then the next week we get several Pit pictures and the Wii U Kid Icarus stage is finally revealed which in it's first picture of the stage shows a giant statue of Palutena.

Dude knows how to troll and since Ridley is such a heavily requested character, what better way to hype up his eventual reveal then by messing with fans for months on end.

[Adrock]

There's a new roster leak that I'm pretty confident is completely false. The only additional newcomer listed is Chrom. Ganondorf, Wario, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, Metaknight, Captain Falcon, and Falco are listed as returning veterans, meaning ROB, Wolf, Lucas, Ike, and Snake will have gotten cut.

Here's the supposed leaked character select screen:

I suppose this could be an incomplete character select screen, but I'm still calling shenanigans. If you're even moderately skilled at Photoshop, these aren't hard to fake.

Anyway...

My friend wants to get better at Super Smash Bros. in preparation for the new games. We've been playing Brawl lately, but I suggested we go back to Melee since the new games seem to be un-Brawl-ing Super Smash Bros. The problem is if he gets attached to a character in Brawl that isn't in Melee, he's kind of starting from scratch when the new installments release anyway. Then, I remembered that Project M reinserted Mewtwo and Roy into Brawl's lineup. I gave it some thought, read up on it, and watched some videos then decided to give it a shot.

First, I really like that you don't have to hack your console to play the mod. A copy of the game is required and you go through the stage builder to load it.

Second, I'm surprised by how much was actually changed. Besides adding Mewtwo and Roy, I thought Project M was just a rebalancing of the characters. The speed in Project M was faster than Brawl but possibly slower than Melee though it's been a while since I played Melee. They added or completely changed certain moves. For example, Samus can change from fire to ice with the side-taunt. Snake is even more broken by giving him a knife and tranquilizer (which makes sense and should have been part of his moveset to begin with). They also changed his up-tilt to an uppercut instead of the split-kick, but I didn't understand what the purpose of that was.

Other changes included removing all stage hazards and auto-scrolling stages (sometimes replaced by a non-scrolling variation) which isn't surprising given the type of players who are modding the game. That's kind of a bummer because I liked some of the stage hazards. It would be nice in the new games to toggle off or adjust the frequency of them without going into full-blown For Glory mode.

Additionally, some older stages are brought back (e.g. Hyrule Castle from the original) while completely new stages were created like Skyloft (not at all like the one in the new games) and Dracula's Castle from Castlevania (for some reason).

I'm brining this up because Project M does many things right (even though it's tailored specifically for no-nonsense-tourney-players) that I'd love to see in the new games. Additionally, they totally get the costumes right (though not all character get alternates). Some examples: Mr. L, Dry Bones Bowser, Boxing Donkey Kong, Shadow Queen Peach, Pajamas Ness (though I would have preferred Robot Ness), and Hero's New Clothes Toon Link. It looks like we're going to get at least one for a few characters in the new games.

[Ceric]

I be surprised if parts of Project M did not make it into the new Smash.  I really doubt people involved with the project are going to miss that opportunity.

[Oblivion]

You don't need to hack your system to play Project M.

[Adrock]

You don't need to hack your system to play Project M.

No one said that. In fact:

First, I really like that you don't have to hack your console to play the mod. A copy of the game is required and you go through the stage builder to load it.