Topic: Zelda Wii U: The Future of Grooseland in the hands of Aonuma

[BlackNMild2k1]

Let this be the thread to discuss everything about Zelda Wii U. I may or may not update the OP with important facts as time passes, maybe some pretty pics and videos.




But what do we know so far?



Iwata wants the next Zelda out in the next 3 years
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/zelda-skyward-sword/8/3

Iwata
You've been making 2D Legend of Zelda games for a long time. On the basis of that experience, you attempted your first 3D Legend of Zelda this time for a home console. With the know-how that has built up over the years and expert staff members—and Aonuma-san and Miyamoto-san as well—it was the best environment for developing a 3D game, and I think you must have experienced the same thing that Miyamoto-san did back then.

Fujibayashi
Yes. I really was blessed.

Aonuma
I'm quite jealous. I can't experience that anymore.

Iwata
Your struggle night and day continues but now faced with an even higher hurdle. (laughs)

Aonuma
I really don't know what to do! (laughs) For the next one, if we will build on the methods we established this time, we might end up getting into a rut.

Fujibayashi
That's difficult. I'm thinking about the next game, too, and I feel like the hurdle is really high.

Aonuma
But there is a lot left that we didn't do this time.

Iwata
You have limited time and people, so there's bound to be something left over. But five years is a long time. (laughs) Can't you do it in three years next time?

Aonuma
Sorry! You're right! (laughs wryly)

Fujibayashi
Sorry, I'll think of something that can happen in three years!

and that Aonuma is suggesting that there will be Full Voice Acting in the next Zelda Adventure (except for Link) and that he plans on fully evolving the series into something he can truly call his own.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/12/02/eiji-aonuma-and-koji-kondo-on-voice-acting-and-zelda-39-s-future.aspx

"The most important thing about the Zelda series is that the player becomes Link. One of the challenges with full voice is that if we’re trying to convey the player’s emotion through Link, but you hear Link talking in somebody else’s voice, that creates a disconnect between you and the role that you’re taking on."

Aonuma jumped in at this point and clarified, "...if you create a game where everybody else in the game speaks but Link doesn’t, it emphasizes the fact that he is silent and draws even more attention to it." Interestingly, though, Aonuma was not completely opposed to the possibility of voice acting snaking its way into the series:

"Of course, this was the first time we went with fully orchestrated songs in the game, and we’ve seen what that can do to help bring the world alive and make the game that much more fun. We’re continually looking at ways that we can evolve the series. We’re not confident that we can find the right balance with full voice, so we’ll see."

Aonuma also joked, "Everyone would be speaking Hylian, so even if you heard them speak, you wouldn’t understand them."

At the end of the interview, I asked Aonuma to provide his general vision for the future of the Zelda series moving forward from Skyward Sword. His answer surprised me:

"I started working on the series not at the beginning but part-way through its history. I think because of that, early on I was more looking objectively at the series and how we could change small, individual elements within it, rather than looking at how the series should evolve. As time has passed – particularly in the last few years – I’ve started to think a lot more about how I can take the series and really make it my own Zelda and evolve it further. As Mr. Miyamoto has allowed me to take the reins on the Zelda series, ultimately that’s what I need to do. Perhaps some people will think it’s a little bit late for me to start thinking about that, but as time goes by, that’s becoming more of a theme in how I’m approaching the series."

So now that some of you have played and beaten the new Zelda (I have yet to open mine) what do you want to see in the next Zelda for Wii U?

[lolmonade]

So now that some of you have played and beaten the new Zelda (I have yet to open mine) what do you want to see in the next Zelda for Wii U?

As someone who is overall very satisfied with Skyward Sword, my biggest request is having more varied environments.  If you're going to have me do several fetch quests, make sure I'm exploring new parts of the world each time. 
 
It hasn't been a game breaker for me, but comparing how many different places you explore in OoT to Skyward Sword is kind of depressing given the span of time and consoles between the two.

[UncleBob]

I was so tempted to edit the title to read "Zelda Wii U: The Future of Grooseland in the hands of Aonuma"

[Adrock]

A few things I'd like to see

1. Nintendo admitting that Link no longer conveys the player's emotion because the game keeps telling players how to feel. That means Link is a character of his own. He should probably speak now. There absolutely is a disconnect between Link and the player but that's okay. Nintendo even defaults his name as Link. I don't need to be Link. However, I can relate to his adventure by watching him react to the world. It's just pooly executed when Nintendo insists that these are my emotions when they clearly are not.

2. Steampunk Hyule.

3. Stop giving me both the slingshot and bow. They do the same thing and the bow is cooler.

4. Stop trying to be a Zelda game and just be a Zelda game. Nintendo doesn't have to feel obligated to adhere to 25 years of tradition just to get the fundamentals right.

5. Fetch quests stopped being fun... Wait, they were never fun. Knock it off. No need to pad the game if 20 hours tells a complete story and is the best 20 hours of Zelda ever created. Quality over quantity. Nintendo practically invented that phrase.

6. Thanks for the origin story. Now, reboot the series so things can make sense. Even if it's a one-off.

[Caterkiller]

I am almost done with SS and I am taking my time in doing every little thing possible because I am loving the heck out of it. The brighter atmosphere, cheery music, character/enemy designs, upgrade system, and whole world is a dungeon set up really appeal to me. I remember fighting Kis in older games and if I didn't have a projectile I would have a heck of a time hitting them. Now I can just swing up on a whim and it works 100% of the time unless I am lying down and trying to play. Switching items on the fly while the game is going can not leave the series, though with a tablet that can also work. And unlike most I love going back to certain places 2,3, or even 4 times. It's a feeling in Metroid that I adored. Even if it's unnecessary I love the upgrade system and finding all the little trinkets to make the weapons better, I spent hours alone searching for different items before I resumed my quest.

As for taking the series forward, I would love to see this art style get a major boost in power. But even if it went realistic like the E3 demo last year just please give me some bright environments. I love the dark realistic places too but there has to be a balance with bright blue sky's, ray's of sun lighting up the grass, and just outrageous tones that pop all around.

I don't know how I feel about buttons again for certain weapons. I found the wiimote to work like a charm and don't want to go back if it can be helped. Still that tablet could make for interesting puzzles I suppose. What I really wish is multiplayer with a 2nd player playing as some kind of... owl/fairy/who knows who can interact with the environment somewhat like the tingle tuner, but has a real means to fight and be a part of the game. 

With the bits of singing in this game it seems like Nintendo is just ever inching toward voice acting. Kind of like how Retro did with the Prime series before it was just full blown. These characters need to talk and if it's weird that Link doesn't all he needs is another inevitable wise cracking side kick to do the talking for him. Isn't that how Jak and Daxter worked?

I think flight should be included in the next game. Be it dragon, giant owl, or pegesus. But with a way to interact with what ever over world their is so there doesn't have to be such a disconnect. Of course that brings up issues of where you can or can not go at first but that could easily be figured out some how.

[lolmonade]

I was so tempted to edit the title to read "Zelda Wii U: The Future of Grooseland in the hands of Aonuma"

I would applaud you so many times for this comment if I had the capability.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was so tempted to edit the title to read "Zelda Wii U: The Future of Grooseland in the hands of Aonuma"

There. I did it for you.

[nickmitch]

It might be time to make radical changes to the franchises. I think nothing would say "new era of Zelda" better than voice acting. New graphical styles can make a statement, but the story telling will evolve more naturally with voice acting, especially if the obligatory intro was narrated.

I agree with Adrock about the bow/slingshot redundancy. It worked in OoT since you could only use one depending on how old you were, but that doesn't work anymore.

[Ceric]

The only solution is mental game projection.  The game tells your mind what the characters are saying but, provides its own voice.  It would be like reading without text.  Just straight to the brain.

Next option.  Voice sampling and extropolation.  After some quick voice captures the game will break down the core components of you speech patterns and simulate that coming from Link.  Making you feel engrossed in the game like never before.

[lolmonade]

It might be time to make radical changes to the franchises. I think nothing would say "new era of Zelda" better than voice acting. New graphical styles can make a statement, but the story telling will evolve more naturally with voice acting, especially if the obligatory intro was narrated.

I sincerely hope they don't go with full-on voice acting.  Reading through the Skyward Sword thread, there were people griping about the minimal sounds they already make.  Does anyone think they'll really do any better with a full script to speak?

IF they decide to do ANY voice acting, I hope it's constrained to cut scenes, and they continue making Link a mute.

[Kytim89]

Being on a superior HD console, Nintendo needs to push the graphics of the next console Zelda game to its limits. It must exceed modern HD games like Uncharted and GTA in terms of scale and presentation. The last few Zelda games have been critisized for having weak graphics, and Skyward Sword looks like a cross between an N64 and Dreamcast title, so the next Zelda must not leave it self open for graphical ridicule.
 
The best example would be an Atlantis style Zora city that Link must swin inot the depths of the ocean to reach. Once Link arrives in the city you can look up above a tranparent ceiling and see the ocean and faint signs of sunlight casting down onto the city.
 
 
Zelda Wii U must also retain the motion control system of Skyward sword, but only on the conditon that Nintwendo remedy some of the issues associated with Skyward Sword.
 
A return to the Twilight Princess graphical stlye would be very welcomed. Also, the spookiness must Majora's Mask would make a good addition to the next console Zelda, or perhaps a haunted manion dungeon.
 
A strong sense of cataclycism like what happened in Majora's Mask.

[Stogi]

I would like Zelda to the explore the time travel mechanic again much like the episode of South Park where Cartman "explores" the time travel mechanic.

Yes, I want him to kill talking gophers while looking for a Wii.

[the asylum]

Steampunk Zelda is so overdue its gone from the elephant in the room to the bona fide safari in the room. People keep going on about the same old same old, this is the shot in the arm that the series needs

[ThePerm]

Yeah, one thing I agree with Kytim on. Zelda used to be at the forefront graphically in games, it hasn't been that way for a long time now. Its still a pretty series, but yeah. You know what I miss fur shaded grass, that **** was great in Star Fox Adventure.

[TJ Spyke]

Steampunk Zelda is so overdue its gone from the elephant in the room to the bona fide safari in the room. People keep going on about the same old same old, this is the shot in the arm that the series needs

Steampunk Zelda would be the jumping the shark moment for the series IMO.

[Chozo Ghost]

Steampunk Zelda is so overdue its gone from the elephant in the room to the bona fide safari in the room. People keep going on about the same old same old, this is the shot in the arm that the series needs

Steampunk Zelda would be the jumping the shark moment for the series IMO.

Zelda has already jumped the shark with cell shaded graphics in Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks. All that's left now is for the series to do a 360 and a couple barrel rolls over the shark.

[BlackNMild2k1]

How is cell shading jumping the shark?

Wind Waker was a good game (except for the water portions) that wouldn't have had as much charm as it did had it chosen a more OoT appearance.

[Chozo Ghost]

How is cell shading jumping the shark?

Wind Waker was a good game (except for the water portions) that wouldn't have had as much charm as it did had it chosen a more OoT appearance.

It was a great game. But because of the new graphic style a lot of people weren't able to take it seriously anymore. Then you also have the introduction of Tingle and things like that... the series has changed a lot since the first game when link was like a medieval crusader and even has a cross on his shield. Now its like a cartoon fairy land with unicorns and rainbows. And I think for a lot of people the cell shading in Wind Waker was the turning point. Not for me, because I still recognized it as a great game and I enjoyed it, but I'm just saying there are a lot of people out there who feel that way and that's what they would say.

[Adrock]

Steampunk Zelda would be the jumping the shark moment for the series IMO.

Really? Steampunk? That is jumping the shark... That and not the talking boat, talking bird hat, robots or magic railroad tracks? Right. Whatever you say.

[ThePerm]

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/571731

[BlackNMild2k1]

I saw this elsewhere and thought I would share it

This is showing off how conservative the first Zelda reveal usually is in comparison to the product we actually recieve.

On N64:


On GC:


and then at E3 2011 we saw this:

^click pic for full 1080p version

What will we get when the time comes?

[Shorty McNostril]

I personally don't understand how people can prefer the cell shaded Zelda look over that^.  I am certainly not saying that Skyward Sword looks bad, but I look at that Twilight Princess screenshot and drool.  It still looks awesome. 

Damn I hope they don't pull a windwaker and let the whole world down after seeing that E3 clip.

[nickmitch]

I'm not convinced this is a trend. The N64 screens were early and the game just looked better when they were done. On the GC, Nintendo showed us THAT then changed their minds and made WW. If they hadn't done that, the game would've probably looked like those screens. Besides, TP came out at the end of the GC's life and that demo was from the other side of that era. Then the E3 2011 was a tech demo to show of the graphics. Nintendo could still go for an entirely new art direction. Lastly,  SS is left out of this.

You could make a better case for conservatism by juxtaposing the GC demo next to the product we actually got because that's the game people wanted and cell shading was something we all had to warm up to.

[Chozo Ghost]

Hopefully the next Zelda game will be able to output to 3D for those who have 3D capable televisions.

[Ceric]

Hopefully the next Zelda game will be able to output to 3D for those who have 3D capable televisions.

That be cool.

You know looking at the 1080p screen I just realized that the Spider's hair doesn't look as good as the hair tech for those type of things that the Mog used in FF:CC on GC and the Queen Bee in Galaxy uses.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The next console Zelda to also use motion controls?

Nintendo: Zelda series keeping motion controls
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-12-nintendo-zelda-series-keeping-motion-controls

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword's motion control scheme is here to stay, series boss Eiji Aonuma has said.

Despite initial misgivings about requiring players to use the Wii Remote's MotionPlus attachment, Aonuma now believes buttons are a thing of the past for the Zelda series.

"I honestly think we cannot go back to button controls now", Aonuma revealed in a new ONM interview (via Kotaku). "So I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."

Nintendo demonstrated a Zelda "experience" for the Wii U during its unveiling at E3 this year.

The Wii U's tablet controller was used as a touch-screen inventory.

Will players be asked to use a Wii Remote Plus and tablet controller together? Or will the inevitable Wii U incarnation include better usage of the tablet, too?

Zelda games for handheld systems will presumably keep the series' classic button controls. After this year's re-release of Ocarina of Time, the next 3DS Zelda game will be all-new, Aonuma recently said.

I've only played a little of the current game, but there are some things that should be using more pointer than motion, like menu/speech selection and anything that requires pointing at something. Motion can help out when your not pointing at the screen, but the pointer should still be used in some cases.

I also hope they put a gyro & accelerometer in the nunchuck since they seem to have no plan to upgrade the wiimote itself. we could atleast get a nunchuck+ going into the next gen to compliment the M+ which will both come secondary to the uMote.

[Kytim89]

What I would like for Nintendo to do is bring back the Vitality sensor and integrate biometics into the motion control of the next Zelda game. I imagine that the player's heartbeat could influence how Link's sword registers hits and how the enenmies react to Link's sword swings. Swinging the Wiimote does get tiring, so I assume that the more you play the game the more the sensor will alter the game.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Miyamoto suggest that Retro could be a good fit for .....(wait for it)....... Zelda!?
Kytim has been put on temporary spontaneous joyplosion watch

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/miyamoto-interview-transcript/all/1

Wired.com: It’s come out since Mario Kart 7 came out, there have been some articles about how Retro Studios was very deeply involved in the making of this game, and it’s considered a landmark for the series because you had this collaboration between EAD and Retro. And I’m curious as to whether you think that this would be an interesting model for more games, like a Mario platformer or a Zelda game, to have a Western team and a Japanese team working in close concert to produce a game like that.

Miyamoto: First of all, let me talk a little bit more in detail about how we collaborated with Retro Studios this time. Of course, they were taking care of the game designing aspect. Specifically, they were taking care of the design of the courses and the artwork about that. But when it comes to the gameplay and the control mechanism itself, that’s being taken care of by EAD once again.

People often say that videogames made by Western developers are somehow different in terms of taste for the players, in comparison with Japanese games. I think that means that the Western developers and Japanese developers, they are good at different fields. And that resulted in a different taste in [their games]. Mario Kart, I believe, was good in order to express that kind of different taste because we have many kinds of different courses for the Mario karts to run and race around. So for each of the different courses, we could identify: Retro is supposed to take care of this course, and EAD is going to do that, and such and such. Then, we were able to join forces in order to realize a variety of different courses, a variety of different tastes. I think that’s one reason how it worked out well between a Japanese development team and a Western development team.

As you know, we have already collaborated with Retro for the Metroid Prime series in the past. And I think when we talk about any other franchise, Zelda might be a possible franchise for that collaboration

[broodwars]

If Retro is given a new console Zelda project, I wonder how much free reign Nintendo would give them to really experiment with the concept and create something fresh.  Sakamoto blocked them from things like doing anything in the Metroid Prime games that showed Samus Aran as a Bounty Hunter, so they were pretty tied into a formula after the first Prime game.  Still, I'd definitely be all for a qualified Western studio like Retro taking a crack at Zelda.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It was rumored that Retro was making a M+ Zelda spin-off, which I will assume was to demonstrate M+ like Link's Crossbow did for the pointer, but that supposedly got shelved a few years back.

Can only wonder what happened to the concept they were working on. I wonder if that is the next game they requested after Donkey Kong Country.

[Ian Sane]

I've been avoiding this thread because I'm not that far into Skyward Sword and don't want to risk spoilers so it's good that BlackNMild referenced the Retro rumour in another thread.

While I would prefer Retro to make something brand new, I'm sure they would make a kick-ass version of Zelda!  I'm all for it!

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was avoiding the other Zelda Thread because I just started Zelda and didn't want to be spoiled, only popping in there now to post and not so much to read.

But this thread is more about what's next for Zelda and not so much the details of Zelda SS, but i could see how there may be slight spoilers when people make suggestion on what to do differently for the Wii U Zelda that was done wrong in the Skyward Sword.

[Spak-Spang]

If Retro was retrained to the typical Zelda Formula...I think there is still plenty of room for the game to grow.  Actually, I would love for Nintendo to give Retro the WiiU Zelda game, and just say, make a traditional High Definition Zelda game and use the WiiU tablet...GO!!!

Then let the Zelda team create another Zelda game with motion controls.  The Retro game would be an awesome Holiday 2012 game, and a few years later we could get the motion controlled WiiU Zelda.

[Shorty McNostril]

Do we know who made the E3 Zelda clip?  Was it Nintendo?

[BlackNMild2k1]

If I had to take a shot in the dark.... Retro Studios maybe!?

I'm sure they had the assets as they were working on something Zelda at some point. Who's to say that the E3 demo isn't the results of what they were working on?

[Chozo Ghost]

Sakamoto blocked them from things like doing anything in the Metroid Prime games that showed Samus Aran as a Bounty Hunter

Seriously? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Samus Aran IS a bounter hunter. That's as ridiculous as blocking things which show Mario and Luigi to be plumbers.

[nickmitch]

Because plumbing has been such a mainstay of the Super Mario gameplay over the years.

Edit: took me long enough to realize that was missing from my post.

[Shorty McNostril]

If I had to take a shot in the dark.... Retro Studios maybe!?

I'm sure they had the assets as they were working on something Zelda at some point. Who's to say that the E3 demo isn't the results of what they were working on?

If that is the fruitage of their efforts then count me in.  With buttons. No motion

[Stogi]

So in the latest Game Informer, Matt Stone and Trey Parker (creators of South Park) are featured in the long article about their upcoming South Park RPG (which I had no idea existed but will do everything in my power to own) saying that they hate when games give the protagonist a voice. In fact, they go out of their way to give several examples of games that rip them out of the gameplay because "I would never say something like that." Finally concluding that one of the reasons they love Zelda is because Link never talks.

[Retro Deckades]

I finished SS today, and I really enjoyed the final boss battle. It wasn't terribly innovative (aside from its implementation of Wii Motion Plus), but it did have a few moments where I found myself thinking, "That's awesome."

After playing through SS in 48 hours I can say that, as a completionist, I would love for them to streamline the game even further. As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in including bug collecting if there is no ultimate goal for doing so. I enjoyed this aspect much more in Twilight Princess where I had to seek out hidden insects in order to receive rewards. Discovering them was a much more meaningful part of the game.

That being said, they simply MUST do away with certain characters who only buy certain things on any given night. There is absolutely NO reason that someone shouldn't be able to buy any treasure you wish to sell on any given night. On top of that, let me enter the amount of how many of each item I wish to sell you, rather than offering to buy them in increments of 1, 5, or "All of them."