Topic: EA CEO Frustrated by Low Wii Sales

[vudu]

So where was their Boom Blox advertising blitz?

Spielberg lost a lot of money last year.  It wasn't in the budget.

[NWR_Neal]

The good old days for me were when Nintendo made awesome games and couldn't market themselves out of a paper during the GameCube era.

[BlackNMild2k1]

EA of all people know that you have to spend money to make money, so they should also know that if you don't spend money advertising your game, then people won't spend money buying it.
It's not like Dead Space was such a massive hit that if I see it on the shelf I automatically know what it is and might buy it for the title alone(It's not a Madden or TW). Dead Space meant enough to EA to make a movie about it and they even advertised this movie for it's direct to DVD release.
EA spent all it's time and money on convincing the enthusiast market that the game was not just an on-rails shooter (it is a first person guided shooter) and forgot to spend time and money on actually selling the game.

Nobodies fault but their own.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Did you see the boxart as well?  What kind of **** is that?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

It's the beginning of the end for Activision.

I think it's the James Bond license curse.  Whoever acquires it will Rise & Fall within a generation's timeframe.

EA must be on the tail end of its curse.

[Jonnyboy117]

I don't know what you're all talking about with Extraction not being advertised. I saw tons of ads for it on Hulu as well as banners on gaming sites. I don't have cable TV, so I can't speak to that, but the fact is that EA certainly did advertise this game. Maybe not as much as they should have, or as much as you would like, but they had a marketing budget and they spent it. That's more than you can say for many other third-party Wii games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You are likely hitting the same market when advertising on a gaming sites and on Hulu.
There were 0 (zero) TV ads for this game and I didn't see a single ad on Hulu BTW. SO if htey had a marketing budget, then they wasted it cause it didn't go very far and it certainly hasn't produced much as far as awareness.

[Arbok]

Wait, Dead Space Extraction is already out?

[NWR_Neal]

You are likely hitting the same market when advertising on a gaming sites and on Hulu.
There were 0 (zero) TV ads for this game and I didn't see a single ad on Hulu BTW. SO if htey had a marketing budget, then they wasted it cause it didn't go very far and it certainly hasn't produced much as far as awareness.

Possible Marketing Logic: Our demographic is probably the people who go on Hulu and frequent gaming sites.

I don't think they really wasted it. I just think their plan didn't work as well as they hoped.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't know what you're all talking about with Extraction not being advertised. I saw tons of ads for it on Hulu as well as banners on gaming sites. I don't have cable TV, so I can't speak to that, but the fact is that EA certainly did advertise this game. Maybe not as much as they should have, or as much as you would like, but they had a marketing budget and they spent it. That's more than you can say for many other third-party Wii games.

The thing is that if even those following the game were caught off guard when it was released shows the marketing was terrible. Especially since those gamers are NOT the casual crowd.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You didn't know?  The ads are plastered all over HuTube.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You are likely hitting the same market when advertising on a gaming sites and on Hulu.
There were 0 (zero) TV ads for this game and I didn't see a single ad on Hulu BTW. SO if htey had a marketing budget, then they wasted it cause it didn't go very far and it certainly hasn't produced much as far as awareness.

Possible Marketing Logic: Our demographic is probably the people who go on Hulu and frequent gaming sites.

I don't think they really wasted it. I just think their plan didn't work as well as they hoped.

Part of the problem is they made a "casualized" horror game yet still attempted to market it to the seasoned in-the-know gamers -- I thought they were trying to reach out to horror-loving casuals in the first place?  what gives?

The EA I used to know last generation would plaster their ads on Spike TV, History, Court TV, USA, WB, Comedy Central, and the major national networks.  I even remember the short little commercial for Criterion's "Black."  What are they doing now?  Putting banners on IGN cuz IGN comprises 3/4 of the internet?  Are they for real?

[King of Twitch]

"I don’t think any of the Western companies are likely to participate much at all on the Wii platform in Japan, so the addressable market we see is just a little bit below 40 million but that is still an important opportunity."

So EA and other third panty-waisters have basically no idea what 20% of the market wants and don't know how to find out? Way to raise the bar.

[broodwars]

Sorry, EA, but most of the fault for your losses lies with you.  You neither put forth the effort to develop interesting and high-quality games on Wii, nor did you put together any competent effort to support them with advertising.  You've spent a good deal of the last few years not giving Nintendo gamers the games they want to buy: you bragged that Spielburg (master of emotion in film) was working on a major title, and then you revealed it was a physics party game (Boom Blox).  You also decided that on a platform where Resident Evil 4 was a major seller to create a rail shooter out of your RE4-type game, and then you never gave anyone a good reason to buy it.  Experimental games are great, but you have to convince gamers that the experiment resulted in a quality game.  Nintendo gamers in particular are used to 3rd party companies producing lousy games at minimal effort, and EA never gave them a reason to think they were any different.

That said, I do think he has a point that Nintendo has essentially abandoned the Wii to 3rd parties these past few years, and Nintendo games are what drive platform sales on Nintendo platforms.  It certainly didn't help drive interest in the platform that in Nintendo's absence 3rd parties have almost completely dropped the ball themselves (with notable exceptions, particularly this year).  Thing is, it's  hard to sympathize with EA when Nintendo gave 3rd parties these past few years the sales environment they've wanted for years: a 3rd party-centric one where Nintendo was not openly competing with them.  Nintendo gave them the opportunity to shine and distinguish themselves with Wii gamers, and they failed.

[JLowther]

On the subject of Extraction, has anyone here actually PLAYED it? It seems to have had good reviews (http://wii.ign.com/articles/102/1028144p1.html) and I've also seen it advertised plenty. But if no one here has actually even played it, why are they acting as though they have the right to call it a good or bad game?

I think this whole thread is indicative of exactly what EA's problem on the Wii is, though I think the CEO either didn't say it or is barking up the wrong tree.

The blame doesn't fall on Nintendo. Nintendo's lack of 1st party titles is probably being done to avoid smothering 3rd party releases. And let me say this: all of my dealings with Nintendo and its representatives have been absolutely wonderful. They've been nothing but the most polite, helpful and accommodating group of people I've dealt with (though up to their ears in work, but that's not something to get upset about).

The problem is that Nintendo fans (myself included) are the most xenophobic gamers on the planet. We REALLY are. We know what we want before it's offered. Dead Space: Extraction, from everything I've read, sounds like a story-driven prequel to the original game that explains the events leading up to the first game, and it sounds like it may very well be superior in storytelling to the original, given the original was just a lone guy on a ship.

I've been a Nintendo fan since the N64. I too have spent most of my gaming life only keeping an eye out for the next Mario, Zelda or SSB game. It wasn't until the GC that I started looking to 3rd party releases and seeing what they had to offer and I found some real gems as a result.

The point is, the attitude of "We don't want a lightgun spinoff!" is both elitist and unwarranted. It's unwarranted because RE:UC showed that players on the Wii buy lightgun spinoffs (though HOTD went on to debunk that notion) and it's elitist because who cares if it's a lightgun game, a FPS or a dating sim? The reviewers are giving it a clean bill of health, it was well-advertised. In the old days, that's all it took to get a good word of mouth going and more sales would result.

The real truth of the matter is that, even if EA released a full-blown Dead Space game on the Wii tomorrow, we'd STILL turn our noses up at it because it's "Not the kind of game we want.", "It's generic", and we'd find reasons to nitpick it, blaming its lack of sales on anything but a xenophobic fanbase. It's not just Dead Space, either. There have been plenty of 3rd party games on the Wii that deserved better sales than they got, and beating the same dead horse excuses just isn't going to cut it anymore.

[GoldenPhoenix]

EA's Wii output has been quite good, Boom Blox 1 and 2 were both fantastic and unique games. Tiger Woods 10 is the best version. Also they've done a good job with many of the ports such as Godfather, and Medal of Honor. Dead Space Extraction is a high quality game by most accounts. Smarty Pants is probably the best trivia game out there.

Now could EA be doing better, sure. But saying they didn't put an effort in developing games is silly, just because you may not like the genre doesn't mean effort wasn't put into it. Heck even EA Sports Active had quite a bit of effort put into it.

[NWR_Neal]

The EA I used to know last generation would plaster their ads on Spike TV, History, Court TV, USA, WB, Comedy Central, and the major national networks.  I even remember the short little commercial for Criterion's "Black."  What are they doing now?  Putting banners on IGN cuz IGN comprises 3/4 of the internet?  Are they for real?

The EA you used to know wasn't operating in a recession and laying off people.

The more we discuss this, the more I think that's why they can't throw as much money at advertising.

As far as the Facebook game purchase...well I've got nothing for that except for the fact that Facebook games are a potential (if not already) gold mine.


Also, House of the Dead: Overkill sold well in Sega's eyes.

[Ian Sane]

Dead Space Extraction comes across a dumbed-down Dead Space.  And yet it is targetted at the core gamers that would prefer the REAL Dead Space.  They could have had TV ads on every primetime network TV show and it wouldn't make a difference.

Dumbed-down Wii versions and spin-offs have become associated with casual focused shovelware.  Wanted core gamers to buy Extraction?  Sorry, the day you announced that it was an on-rails shooter (of all genres to pick; you couldn't possibly pick something that would piss off Wii owners more) it was DOOMED.  It could have got perfect tens but Wii spin-offs = horseshit.  Call it unfair but that's the trend and so that assumption is going to made every time.  That's why Madden All Play doesn't sell.  The name change suggests a dumbed down spinoff so the target market immediately rejects it.

I'd say the Wii third party situation is so dire that nothing short of a grand gesture can repair things.  Third parties treated the Wii so poorly initially that there's no trust between the third party and the core gamer consumer.  The negative stigma is too thick.  The Wii is the casual console for third party shovelware.  That's the image.

So releasing a decent game or the odd great game here and there isn't enough anymore.  It's an uphill battle to get the core gamer to care (especially now that the other consoles are affordable) so it has to come across as a major shift.  It has to be games that cannot be ignored.  It has to be mulitplatform games being released on all three consoles simultaneously.  No late Wii port, no compromised Wii port.  It has to be REAL entries in popular franchise, not spin-offs.  It can't just be "hey we don't suck so much anymore."  It was to be "the Wii is our FOCUS and our BEST GAMES are going to be made for it!"  The PS360 has to be seen as the second choice instead of the first.

For that to happen I think we need the Wii 2.  We need a fresh start with hardware comparable to the other consoles and an image that's more neutral and doesn't come across as specifically casual focused.

[broodwars]

Dead Space Extraction comes across a dumbed-down Dead Space.  And yet it is targetted at the core gamers that would prefer the REAL Dead Space.  They could have had TV ads on every primetime network TV show and it wouldn't make a difference.

Dumbed-down Wii versions and spin-offs have become associated with casual focused shovelware.  Wanted core gamers to buy Extraction?  Sorry, the day you announced that it was an on-rails shooter (of all genres to pick; you couldn't possibly pick something that would piss off Wii owners more) it was DOOMED.  It could have got perfect tens but Wii spin-offs = horse****.  Call it unfair but that's the trend and so that assumption is going to made every time.  That's why Madden All Play doesn't sell.  The name change suggests a dumbed down spinoff so the target market immediately rejects it.

I'd say the Wii third party situation is so dire that nothing short of a grand gesture can repair things.  Third parties treated the Wii so poorly initially that there's no trust between the third party and the core gamer consumer.  The negative stigma is too thick.  The Wii is the casual console for third party shovelware.  That's the image.

So releasing a decent game or the odd great game here and there isn't enough anymore.  It's an uphill battle to get the core gamer to care (especially now that the other consoles are affordable) so it has to come across as a major shift.  It has to be games that cannot be ignored.  It has to be mulitplatform games being released on all three consoles simultaneously.  No late Wii port, no compromised Wii port.  It has to be REAL entries in popular franchise, not spin-offs.  It can't just be "hey we don't suck so much anymore."  It was to be "the Wii is our FOCUS and our BEST GAMES are going to be made for it!"  The PS360 has to be seen as the second choice instead of the first.

Thank you for better articulating what I was trying to say.  I'm rather pissed at EA for personal reasons right now related to other recent news out of the company, and seeing their CEO (who I've seen take responsibility for the failures of his company before) totally pass the buck here just irritates me.

[JLowther]

Sorry, the day you announced that it was an on-rails shooter (of all genres to pick; you couldn't possibly pick something that would piss off Wii owners more) it was DOOMED.

Except for the fact that RE:UC has sold over a million copies and RE:DC will probably do the same, sure.

Why is Extraction "dumbed down" and unworthy of purchase, yet the Wii fanbase bought RE:UC despite not getting RE5?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Also, House of the Dead: Overkill sold well in Sega's eyes."

It also likely didn't cost as much as DSE, so even better for Sega.

The spending limits brought on by the recession is also a strong argument.  EA could at least admit they're unable to operate with the same extravagance they used to afford.  But no, like BnM said, blame Nintendo for releasing good games, blame Nintendo for not releasing any games.

[smallsharkbigbite]

The real answer is everyone deserves some blame. 

Nintendo did a great job of bringing in traditionally non-gamers but didn't expand that market.  I.E. they brought in people that bought Wii Fit and basically play Wii Fit and Wii Sports.  I do blame them that they were not able to cultivate these gamers into 1-2 game a year purchasers. 

Nintendo also did a poor job collaborating with third party developers.  It was obvious from the beginning with UbiSoft coming up with serious support (although flawed) to EA coming through with serious support that developers have struggled making games that reach the Wii demographic but have tried.  Nintendo makes a licensing fee for every game sold on the Wii so they should have been ecstatic to help third parties sell on the Wii. 

Third Parties (EA in this case) did not come out with great games for the Wii for the longest time.  Like for instance if you a big Capcom fan, how could you not purchase a PS3 or Xbox360?  Your going to miss SF4, DMC4, Bionic Commando, SSF2Turbo, RE5, Soul Calibur, etc?  Even Xseed wants to port Maramasu and some of their other games due to poor Wii sales.  If you like those games you probably already moved on from the Wii.  Even They could have done a much better job of cultivating their market on the Wii to facilitate the types of games they make. 

The gaming market in general has been stupid to allow costs to increase so much and push game prices up.  Now when a couple of games fail, a studio could end up closing.  And the market in general won't spend $50/$60 on a game so much of it gets dumped at $20 because the store can't sell it.  This leads to the approach that EA is taking which is horrible for consumers and Nintendo is somewhat doing.  The plan is release fewer games and the games that you do release, make sure they are well known IPs so that you are assured of good sales. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"They could have had TV ads on every primetime network TV show and it wouldn't make a difference."

We would've seen SOME difference, especially compared to that last NPD report, if they made an attempt to appeal to the "Wii casuals."  The casuals don't know it's dumbed down, after all.

Personally I think the more effective key to success is to reach those untapped casuals and leave the rest of you non-casuals behind.  Go play Sega Genesis or something.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Sorry, the day you announced that it was an on-rails shooter (of all genres to pick; you couldn't possibly pick something that would piss off Wii owners more) it was DOOMED.

Except for the fact that RE:UC has sold over a million copies and RE:DC will probably do the same, sure.

Why is Extraction "dumbed down" and unworthy of purchase, yet the Wii fanbase bought RE:UC despite not getting RE5?

The Wii fanbase has some overlap with the RESIDENT EVIL fanbase, which is a pretty big longtime brand you might've noticed.  When REUC came out, so long ago, there was still some hunger for new RE content, especially on the exciting Wii platform of interesting gameplay possibilities.  Dead Space doesn't have that brand power worldwide, and present-day people are definitely not "hungering" for more on-rails content.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"The real answer is everyone deserves some blame."

Hay now, let's not diffuse the bomb so quickly.  If we start accepting blame rather than continue directing it, the discussion will go flaccid.