Topic: Defecting to the Enemy Camp

[Halbred]

Hey, Yoshi's Island is an excellent game (one of the SNES' best), but it's not a Mario game proper IMO.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Hey, Yoshi's Island is an excellent game (one of the SNES' best), but it's not a Mario game proper IMO.

Oh boy, another lame argument to start all over again.

Anyway, I've almost bought an enemy crab of my own a few times, but the price is a sticking point for me.  I can afford it, but it's not really worth it to me right now.  I need a price cut, a few more games I want to get the Greatest Hits pricing, or Blu-ray movies to drop in price enough to be competitive with DVDs.

[vudu]

I didn't know it was up to you to decide what is and isn't a proper Mario game.  Is this why you don't count Majora's Mark as a second Zelda game on N64?  Is Mega Man Legends a proper Mega Man game?  Does Metroid Prime Hunters count as a Metroid game?  Are Umbrella Chronicles, Circle of the Moon and Four Swords part of their respective series?

[Halbred]

Hmmm...

Zach's Almighty Verdicts

Majora's Mask shall not be considered a "new" Zelda game, as it uses the exact same engine as Ocarina of Time, was released just over a year later, and isn't so much a sequel as an Alice in Wonderland sidestory.

Mega Man Legends is to be considered the first game in a new franchise, and thus not a true Mega Man game. We do not consider Mega Man X to be a part of the Mega Man proper lineage, nor do we give such heed to Mega Man Zero, Mega Man ZX, Mega Man Battle Network...etc.

Metroid Prime Hunters shall be considered a sidestory to the main Metroid Prime canon, not an MP game proper. Also, the Quake gameplay differentiates it from the main games to a great degree.

Umbrella Chronicles shall be considered the first game in a new RE franchise. Its railgun shooter gameplay differentiates itself from the main series. Additionally, it serves as a "summary" of the RE story from RE0 to RE3.

Four Swords is a bizarre sidestory to the proper Zelda timeline. There is virtually no crossover (except for Ganon's unexplained occurance in the GC game), and no mention of Vaati or the Four Sword is made in the main gameline. Thus, Four Swords represents its own series.

Circle of the Moon is not considered canonical by Igarashi, but its gameplay formula is so similar to the seminal PS1 classic, Symphony of the Night, that its place within the Castlevania series proper cannot be ignored. There are currently FIVE Castlevania series:

1) NES/SNES/Genesis sidescrollers featuring linear level design.
2) N64 forays into the 3D realm. Their pedegree is not seen in the recent PS2 Castlevania games.
3) PS1/DS sidescrollers featuring what's come to be known as a "Metroid-vania" level design and a focus on magic, branching plot paths, etc.
4) PS2 forays into the 3D realm. Neither one succeeded.
5) The upcoming Wii fighting game.

I have spoken.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

No one listened.

[Ian Sane]

I assume anyone who doesn't consider Majora's Mask a "real" Zelda game has either never played it or got crushed by the moon in their first three day cycle and haven't played it since.  It's a 3D console Zelda game made by EAD with the same general gameplay of all the other 3D console Zeldas.  But it uses the same engine!!  Yeah and TONS of sequels do that so what's your point?

[Halbred]

Don't make me give a decree again. ;-)

[GoldenPhoenix]

Don't make me give a decree again. ;-)

I agree with you on Majora's Mask it is more of a goofy side quest that doesn't really have much to do with the series.

[NWR_Lindy]

Man, I'll have to start issuing decrees.  It's apparently much more effective than my usual exaggerated points (and just as dramatic).

[Stogi]

Don't make me give a decree again. ;-)

I agree with you on Majora's Mask it is more of a goofy side quest that doesn't really have much to do with the series.

*Crys*

Where's the love? If MM came out before OOT, I think we would love it all the more.

[NWR_insanolord]

I agree that Yoshi's Island isn't a Mario game (it's a Yoshi game), but I think it's stupid to not consider Majora's Mask a Zelda game. Lots of people complained that Twilight Princess adhered too closely to the formula, but you're saying that the one Zelda that really shook things up doesn't count as a Zelda because it's too different.

[DAaaMan64]

So I guess Link's Awakening is not a Zelda then?  Being only a dream must suck.

[Halbred]

Of course it's a Zelda game. In fact, it's a sequel to Link to the Past. But it's on a different platform, so it can't be counted as an SNES game.

[S-U-P-E-R]

You know, I bought all three consoles and all three of them delivered something at least a bit different from what I expected. That said, sticking to any loyalty oath to a game company is nuts. Especially with the way things change in this biz, it's nuts. I can understand taking a company's great track record into account when you decide to buy something on day one, but I think it's a really good idea to be a jaded, skeptical internet troll when making your system and software buying decisions.

I guess Halbred doesn't have a 360. Look into it, you might be (pleasantly) surprised as I was with the software and functionality. I play it most out of all of the available platforms, and I don't mean Halo.

What makes you think PS3 will have the best version of World Tour?  Many people consider the Wii version of GH3 to be the best, and that's before they redid the graphics engine and enabled DLC, both of which will be in World Tour.

lol, what? What the hell?

[Rize]

I didn't defect to the enemy camp, but Nintendo picked up camp and moved half way across the country and I was too uninterested to follow them.  And meanwhile MS and Sony are right next door and I already know the territory so what do you expect?  At least a good portion of the DS faction of Nintendo's camp hasn't gone anywhere.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Don't make me give a decree again. ;-)

I agree with you on Majora's Mask it is more of a goofy side quest that doesn't really have much to do with the series.

*Crys*

Where's the love? If MM came out before OOT, I think we would love it all the more.

I wouldn't because I hate timers in games and I especially hate "story elements" that force you to replay the same thing over and over again. For a 1 year development it was a great accomplishment but far from the fine tuned design and numerous dungeons found in other Zelda's. It was a spin-off, nothing more, nothing less.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Shows how much you understand.

The game still took as much time, if not longer, to beat as Ocarina, despite the inclusion many gamers had experience with the gameplay style after playing Ocarina.  The 4 main dungeons were the largest in the series, and were preceded by mini-dungeons, together, amounting to the work of 2 regular dungeons (aside from Ocarina Water Temple 1st-try).  On top of that, the gameplay was significantly more varied going beyond the normal 20-30 hrs of Fairy Boy Running in Tights and Poking Things.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Shows how much you understand.

The game still took as much time, if not longer, to beat as Ocarina, despite the inclusion many gamers had experience with the gameplay style after playing Ocarina.  The 4 main dungeons were the largest in the series, and were preceded by mini-dungeons, together, amounting to the work of 2 regular dungeons (aside from Ocarina Water Temple 1st-try).  On top of that, the gameplay was significantly more varied going beyond the normal 20-30 hrs of Fairy Boy Running in Tights and Poking Things.

I don't believe I said anything about its length. Pokemon Mystery dungeon is about as long as Ocarina of Time too, but that doesn't mean it is a good thing. More varied than other Zeldas? Talk about a ludicrous statement. Different, yes but more varied? Uhhh, I don't think so. Then again this is coming from the guy who thought Killer7 was wondrous in gameplay design (talk about lack of variety!).

One thing I love about the Zelda series is being able to explore without any pressure, Majora's Mask made this very difficult and stressful because of the end of times timer. Not only that but I love varied dungeons and consider the boss fights in Zelda to be some of my favorites and none of the bosses impressed me much in Majora's Mask.

[Ian Sane]

I wouldn't because I hate timers in games and I especially hate "story elements" that force you to replay the same thing over and over again. For a 1 year development it was a great accomplishment but far from the fine tuned design and numerous dungeons found in other Zelda's. It was a spin-off, nothing more, nothing less.

You got crushed by the moon, didn't you? 

[GoldenPhoenix]

I wouldn't because I hate timers in games and I especially hate "story elements" that force you to replay the same thing over and over again. For a 1 year development it was a great accomplishment but far from the fine tuned design and numerous dungeons found in other Zelda's. It was a spin-off, nothing more, nothing less.

You got crushed by the moon, didn't you? 

Actually I found that vastly more entertaining than replaying the same segments over and over again. I got past the final dungeon in the game and basically quit it and never picked it up again. The eels were far more scary than the moon. My fear of the moon only went as far as "Oh no I have to play the same crap over again, what fun. Better warp back to the beginning or let it crash into me", while the eels almost gave me a heart attack.

[Flames_of_chaos]

God of War 3 is a huge question mark, I don't even think Jaffe the creator of the GoW1 and 2 even has anything to do with it. Regardless I am not too enthralled with PS3's exclusive lineup of games this fall, beyond LBP there is nothing I find remotely interesting (Sadly I don't think Afrika will make it over here so I may have to import it!) unlike the 360 and yes the Wii.

I agree that the PS3 doesn't have a great library compared to Wii and 360 but there are a lot of gems, I recommend you try Pixel Junk: Eden it's pure gaming bliss one of the best download-able games this generation.

[NWR_Lindy]

At least a good portion of the DS faction of Nintendo's camp hasn't gone anywhere.

The DS is awesome.  I actually appreciate it more now that the Wii looks like it's going to have about two games a year that interest me.

[GoldenPhoenix]

God of War 3 is a huge question mark, I don't even think Jaffe the creator of the GoW1 and 2 even has anything to do with it. Regardless I am not too enthralled with PS3's exclusive lineup of games this fall, beyond LBP there is nothing I find remotely interesting (Sadly I don't think Afrika will make it over here so I may have to import it!) unlike the 360 and yes the Wii.

I agree that the PS3 doesn't have a great library compared to Wii and 360 but there are a lot of gems, I recommend you try Pixel Junk: Eden it's pure gaming bliss one of the best download-able games this generation.

Actually I have downloaded one of those and the games are fun. I also like Echochrome even if it plays with my head.

[NWR_insanolord]

At least a good portion of the DS faction of Nintendo's camp hasn't gone anywhere.

The DS is awesome.  I actually appreciate it more now that the Wii looks like it's going to have about two games a year that interest me.

Two years ago, when the DS was at the same point in its life as the Wii is now, the DS was in the same position gameswise as the Wii is now. It had a good bunch of first-party stuff but only a few big third party games, and there was nothing coming from Nintendo for the rest of the year. Don't assume that the Wii won't follow the same path the DS has.

[NWR_Lindy]

No way man.  Check out the 2006 DS lineup, starting off with the games released during the year:

Big Brain Academy
New Super Mario Bros.
Star Fox Command
Metroid Prime: Hunters
Tetris DS

They then followed those games up with this holiday lineup:

Children of Mana
Elite Beat Agents
Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
Nintendogs
Yoshi's Island DS

So that was the DS' third Christmas.  The Wii has been great in 2008 so far, but it looks like its totally dried up for the 2nd half of the year.  Animal Crossing and Wii Music = me no care.