Topic: XboxOne ~News/Rumor/Speculation~ Biggest Console Released This Gen!!

[broodwars]

Publishers would love to get a cut of used sales, but the problem is figuring out a way to do it. Microsoft is apparently going the route of having your games tied to your Xbox Live account and making you have to sell it for full price if you want to sell it.

Which logically means that you have to buy it at full price as well. I don't think the market's going to take well to a system where the publishers/Microsoft alone get to determine how much a game is worth indefinitely.  Many people don't buy a game at launch for the full price, and this will pretty much ensure that they never buy the game.

As for today's reveal, it basically ensured that I will not buy an Xbox One, thus making me interested in the PS4 again.  No backwards compatibility, a mandatory once-every-24 hour "check-in"/"call home" policy, price controls on Second-hand software, mandatory Kinect, the absurd amount of focus on TV integration, their general smug douche-iness on stage today, and their general lack of interesting software just completely turned me off the system.  Looks like this next generation is Sony's to lose...surprisingly.

[Adrock]

I still don't understand the point of that. You can only sell your copy, which is now used, for the same price as a brand new game? Why the crap would I buy it off you? I would just go to a store and buy a sealed copy.

[nickmitch]

If you haven't played it, it's new to you!

[magicpixie]

This feels like Microsoft's Steambox.  Retail discs will basically be used as an alternative to digital delivery, with the same DRM schemes seen on Steam and Origin, but with the supposed added feature of being able to trade/sell games once you're done with them(I think in Europe Steam is supposed to implement used sales soon).  Hopefully, this means that their pricing schemes will be more flexible, like Steam et al., but I am doubtful since Microsoft probably still has to answer to major retailers who will be selling their consoles along with the retail disc.

There was mention of the old TV model dying, and I agree, it is dying.  However, it's dying is akin to what happened to the music industry when Napster came along.  It is akin to what is happening in the cable industry as they see subscriber numbers drop and they scramble to hold their remaining subscribers hostage with bandwidth caps and bundle deals.  It is akin to the current console market where publishers, retailers, and the console manufacturers have too much at stake to just loosen their grip on the industry.  Instead of seeing where others have succeeded and seeking to duplicate their success, they seek to leverage their position of power in the industry to reassert their dominance over consumers and competitors(see EA with Origin, and Ubisoft with UPlay).

Publishers would love to get a cut of used sales, but the problem is figuring out a way to do it. Microsoft is apparently going the route of having your games tied to your Xbox Live account and making you have to sell it for full price if you want to sell it.

I wonder if they'll amend this to sell it for the "market" value(market being whatever Microsoft are selling it for on their own service).  The interview I saw that confirmed that only mentioned "new" games, and I interpret new to mean "not bargain bin".

I still don't understand the point of that. You can only sell your copy, which is now used, for the same price as a brand new game? Why the crap would I buy it off you? I would just go to a store and buy a sealed copy.

If the retail copy is just a data delivery device(you don't need to download the game digitally, but you do need to install it on your HDD), you are really only purchasing the license to play the game.  It just so happens to come with the convenience of saving you the bandwidth cost of downloading the full game digitally(which is what I assume is what Microsoft and their conspirators really want).  Selling you my copy digitally does essentially the same thing, at the same time, removing my right to play the game.  It essentially removes the concept of "used" from the gaming equation.

[Soren]

Publishers would love to get a cut of used sales, but the problem is figuring out a way to do it. Microsoft is apparently going the route of having your games tied to your Xbox Live account and making you have to sell it for full price if you want to sell it.

Sell it full price? No way you're getting full price for a game you sell. More likely is Microsoft setting up a trade-in system similar to Gamestop. Sell it close after launch, get more money. The more you wait to sell it the less money they'll give you. They in turn get to set whatever price they like. It's not like they'll be competing with any other retailer for used games.

[shingi_70]

Publishers would love to get a cut of used sales, but the problem is figuring out a way to do it. Microsoft is apparently going the route of having your games tied to your Xbox Live account and making you have to sell it for full price if you want to sell it.

Which logically means that you have to buy it at full price as well. I don't think the market's going to take well to a system where the publishers/Microsoft alone get to determine how much a game is worth indefinitely.  Many people don't buy a game at launch for the full price, and this will pretty much ensure that they never buy the game.

As for today's reveal, it basically ensured that I will not buy an Xbox One, thus making me interested in the PS4 again.  No backwards compatibility, a mandatory once-every-24 hour "check-in"/"call home" policy, price controls on Second-hand software, mandatory Kinect, the absurd amount of focus on TV integration, their general smug douche-iness on stage today, and their general lack of interesting software just completely turned the system.  Looks like this next generation is Sony's to lose...surprisingly.

With Gamers you mean. You'd be suprised about postive buzz or apathy to news coming from mainstream media and users. The thing will be a probable success either way and at this point I doubt we see anyone dominate like we've seen this gen.


Porbably will have all three at some point becuase well games are fun.

[alegoicoe]

Welcome to the New "New Generation" where everything its the same, just slightly better

[TJ Spyke]

Publishers would love to get a cut of used sales, but the problem is figuring out a way to do it. Microsoft is apparently going the route of having your games tied to your Xbox Live account and making you have to sell it for full price if you want to sell it.

Sell it full price? No way you're getting full price for a game you sell. More likely is Microsoft setting up a trade-in system similar to Gamestop. Sell it close after launch, get more money. The more you wait to sell it the less money they'll give you. They in turn get to set whatever price they like. It's not like they'll be competing with any other retailer for used games.

Phil Harrison plainly said that if you sell a game to someone, they will have to pay the same price you did. So if you paid $50 for a game, the person you sell it to will have to pay $50 as well (or whatever the new cost of the game is when you sell it).

[Mannypon]

I usually have all major consoles every generation but this time I think I'll just stick to my WiiU and eventually a PS4.  Since I've come to building myself a decent PC this past year, I'll be using that for any multi-p western releases, specifically all the western styled rpgs I like.  Given most of Xbox's releases are western type games, I don't see a need for the system anymore.  The PS4 will only serve its purpose for the occasional Sony exclusive and sports games if EA and 2k end up half assing their sports lineups on the WiiU. 

Speaking of EA, I do have to make mention of their "sizzle" real.  I was definitely not impressed.  It all looked CG and like ass IMO.  It can be argued that they could've all been using the ingame engines, but even still, they were all not much of an improvement from what we get now on the PS3 and X360.  Madden still used what seemed to be the same slim looking character models with the same usual animations.  NBA Live looked as plasticy as ever.  Fifa looked good and so did the MMA game but again, I could've been told they were on PS3 and never been the wiser. 

[magicpixie]

It will be interesting to see if any kind of marketplace for trading games is in the works.  Selling games back to Microsoft would be worst-case scenario, I think.  You aren't selling any physical copies back to them, you are returning your license.  There is no physical product that they would have to turn around and resell.  It's like goldsinks in MMOs.  By selling back to Microsoft, you are removing your copy of the game from the marketplace, and MS can sell another license at full price.  You've effectively rented your game.  If, however, you can trade games, things become much more interesting.  How do people place value on certain games becomes a very interesting topic.  Can MS offer a more compelling reason to sell them your license?  Or would you be better served trading among the general public(assuming this is even an option)?

Gawd, all this talk about licenses and digital rights is really weird.  It's like, in one fell swoop, MS has managed to bring the issue of digital ownership to the forefront of the tech debate.  It really should have been there a long time ago.

Again, I wasn't planning on buying a One at launch anyway.  This reveal did nothing to change my mind.  At this point, it will take some truly killer "app"(in light of this reveal, that seems like such a poor choice of words) to get me on board.  I expect a large amount of games worth buying will be multiplatform, for which I have my PC(and, yes, these DRM schemes already exist there without the option to sell).

[Soren]

Phil Harrison plainly said that if you sell a game to someone, they will have to pay the same price you did. So if you paid $50 for a game, the person you sell it to will have to pay $50 as well (or whatever the new cost of the game is when you sell it).

Right. What I was trying to say though is that you won't get $50 for selling that game. You'll get 30, or 20 or whatever price Microsoft says.

[magicpixie]

Phil Harrison plainly said that if you sell a game to someone, they will have to pay the same price you did. So if you paid $50 for a game, the person you sell it to will have to pay $50 as well (or whatever the new cost of the game is when you sell it).

Right. What I was trying to say though is that you won't get $50 for selling that game. You'll get 30, or 20 or whatever price Microsoft says.

I took that as person-to-person sale.  Regardless, the person buying a used game is paying "full" price.

EDIT: Wow, it looks like even Microsoft don't know WTF this console is going to do:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play

More weasel words?

[ShyGuy]

I think Microsoft is still sorting some stuff out. With the reactions today, I would not be surprised to see some things change by launch this holiday season.

Same for Sony, really.

[Shorty McNostril]

With the reactions today, I would not be surprised to see some things change by launch this holiday season.

Will they though?  For some reason console number 3 seems to be the one that always goes badly.  It happened to Sony and Nintendo, looks like it's time for Microsoft to join the party.

[Ceric]

On PC you've been buying Licences well for a very long time.  Its the natural evolution when Storage Medium is no longer needed to hold things.  As soon as you have the space to keep it local than licensing is the model that happens.

[tendoboy1984]

So with mandatory hard drive installs, what does that mean to people wanting to sell or trade in their discs at GameStop?

If I burn a CD to my PC, I can still sell it at FYE.

Used game sales hurting publishers is akin to saying used car sales hurt dealers and auto companies. It's bullshit.

[Ian Sane]

The thing that's ridiculous about locking out used sales is that at this point the "threat" of used sales is diminishing.  The market is moving towards digital distribution and there are no used sales there and the only way for them to exist is if the companies involved put in the infrastructure to do it.  They've won.  Used sales will effectively no longer exist in the future and they'll get rid of them without consumer backlash as used digital sales just never really existed so they would not be taking away anything the consumer used to have.

And we already have DLC so a used sale does not necessarily mean that the publisher gets no money from the purchase because the owner of a used game can still buy new DLC.  Hell if I sell my game to Bob and he buys the DLC and then he trades the game in and Sam buys the used copy and then buys the DLC I just sold TWO DLC purchaes on one physical copy of the game.

Hell free-to-play is a model now.  A used game with DLC is very similar only instead of it being free you get one new purchase and then a chain of potential DLC customers connected to each physical copy as it travels through the used market.  How is a used game buyer any different from a free-to-play user that got the game without paying for it but now that they're enjoying the game is likely to buy DLC?  Yeah maybe the used game buyer doesn't buy anything but that risk is the same with free-to-play.  At the very least you have the ability to sell new content to someone playing a used game and until last gen this was not possible.  Used game sales are now less damaging to the industry then they were in the PS1/N64 era but NOW that they're not as damaging and they're going to become extinct within the next ten years they decide to lock them out... while the other two console makers don't?

[pokepal148]

but the industry is in a very nasty position. this whole used games thing seems like a sign of desperation...

[Fatty The Hutt]

Is Microsoft importing the same model they have used for years with, for example, their Office products? If not already pre-installed, you buy the software on a disc (or, in the old days, several floppy discs) and, once installed, you have to activate your licence for the software by entering a key or registering online. You can't then sell your used copy of Microsoft Office to someone else because the copy on the disc is registered and licensed only to you. It looks to me like it's just a standard software licencing model applied now to X-Box game software.


I get that it limits the used game market and I wholeheartedly agree that it completely sucks balls. What I am asking is if there is something particularly novel in the model that I am missing.

[Ian Sane]

I think the difference is mainly that used console game purchases has been the norm forever but used software was never really much of a thing.  Also it is conventional to install computer software, so there is the obvious problem that I could sell my physical discs to you while keeping my installation on my hard drive, effectively pirating the software.  But with a console game it was always some physical media and if I sold you my game I could no longer play it, thus there remained only one player per physical copy.  The software licensing model was created with the justification of preventing people from "sharing" copies, not so much to block used sales.

"We need to have licenses so people don't pirate our software." - Fair excuse.  Software piracy is effectively stealing so the excuse is an easy sell.

"We need to have licenses so people don't buy used copies of our games." - Lame excuse.  Used purchases have always been legal and until the videogame companies started squawking about it there was no real moral or ethical debate about it.  It comes across as greedy corporations wanting more control over the consumer and thus is a hard sell.

[ShyGuy]

In regards to used games, Major Nelson says policy decisions are still being finalized.

We are still months away from the launch of Xbox One & policy decisions are still being finalized.

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-faq-chat-major-nelson-larry-hryb-150903740.html

I think we could see Micrsoft backpedal on this due to the negative reaction

[pokepal148]

[TJ Spyke]

Well, looks like Xbox 360 headsets might not work on the Xbox One: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook

[Shaymin]

So are they selling new headsets, or is it Wii Speak with spyware?

[TJ Spyke]

The Xbox One controller has a new proprietary slot, so IGN speculates that there will be new headsets designed specifically for it and that they could be even better.