Topic: XboxOne ~News/Rumor/Speculation~ Biggest Console Released This Gen!!

[TJ Spyke]

You expect Windows Phone to go from 6th place (behind even Symbian) to 3rd place in only a year?

There are only a few hundred metro apps, and none can be considered tablet apps. It's not possible to compare Android tablet apps to Windows 8 since not Windows 8 tablets exist yet. I would not be confident in Windows 8-based tablets selling a lot, especially Microsoft's Surface tablet (which apparently will start at $499)/

[shingi_70]

I'm talking about #3 in OSs that matter.

Meego is dead.
Webos is dead.
Symbain is all but dead(nokia has stopped symbain development)
BB10 is reboot and will have zero marketshare.

So yes. Because symbain make have had better marketshare but its irrelvance almost killed nokia last year. RIM is on verge of death as well and there have been reports that in america and europe there have been months recently where no blackberrydevice been sold.


No one cares if like symbian and rim where most of your marketshare comes from outdated crao that only salees in low end markets.

[shingi_70]

How aren't the comparable.They are apps that are made for the metro part of windows 8 which was made for tablets.The fact they also run on regular computers doesn't change that. It may tip the scales a bit, but it isn't like android doesn't run on other devices as well.

Also a quality product is worth the money put in it. Current projects are the low end surfaceto be $299 for 32gb and $499 for 64gb. The high end surface is goin into the $800+ market.

All hands on with windows 8 tablets have been prasing the build quality, somthing that could be said for non nexus 7 android tablets. Enterprise already is having alot of intrest in them.

The hybrid model is going to be enticing for a lot of people. Those and the surface pro will be the best on the mark for student and productivty.


But who knows wouldn't be the first time where a superior product failed to capture the mark place for various reason.

[TJ Spyke]

If they are beating Window Phone, then they matter. You can't pick who you are competing with (otherwise you have stuff like Sony saying they are #2 or even #1). The facts are that Windows Phone is a distant 6th. Right now WP is insignificant as it only has a 3.5% market share worldwide. Even when you only count the US, Windows Phone is just 3.6% (BlackBerry is 9.6%). So you are trying to slam RIM when as of August 2012, it is still selling three times as many phones as Windows Phone. I know you are high on Microsoft, but I think you need more realistic expectations.

They aren't compariable because you are trying to only count Android apps that are designed specifically for tablets, but you want to count all Windows 8 apps or even metro apps. Regular Android apps run on Android tablets, so the fair comparison is to use them. In that case, Android wins 600K to 1.6K

[shingi_70]

Guess that the plus and cons of having just one OS instead of seperate ones.


Though not sure even android can be cut into phone and tablet apps considereding their really isn't any. Push to show the difference post ice cream sandwhich.

Regardless I think the windows 8 market is going to move pretty quickly. They have recived the same apps as android ina shorter amount of time. It took forever for a tablet optimized version of netlfix for android while windows 8 is going to be launching with one


I think android is going to contuine to clean house inthe 7 inch space though.

There are still a few apps on android I use that don't have windows versions but they have mobile web apps.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Windows Phone Awakes
Answering It, Who Is There?
Fate or Doom? Decide!
 
/haiku
 

[Spak-Spang]

I would be happy if Windows phone was able to eat into the Android market share...that way having 3 more equal phone operating systems will be better for competition.

[Adrock]

I fiddled around with WebOS way back and I'm extremely sad that HP failed so entirely in capitalizing on such a great operating system. I hoped that if a larger company swooped in to buy Palm, WebOS could make some noise in the mobile space, but HP seriously dropped the ball. In hindsight, it probably would have been better if RIM got their hands on WebOS. Instead, they scooped up QNX who has spent the last 2 and a half years making Blackberry 10 and so desperately want it to be WebOS if the Blackberry Tablet OS is anything to go by. It's probably too late to make a dent in the mobile market, but it should look pretty, since RIM bought an entire company (The Astonishing Tribe) to design the user interface. As for me, I'll probably just stick with iOS.

[shingi_70]

Don't remind me of webos. I remember being so. Excited when HP picked it upand were going to double down on it.


Rim and QNX has a good chance of even bexoming the thrid platform instead of windows phone. The delay didn't help but the leaks of the software and hardware have been reall good. Hopefully they learned from the mistakes of the playbook (not having calander and email, as well as the SDK not teleasing until six months after launch).

Sad to say but BB10 is rims only hope.

[BlackNMild2k1]

What do you mean Microsoft has yet to see the light at the end of tunnel of the TV race.

Who said anything about a TV race?

& MS has yet to even see the light at the other end of the tunnel when it comes to being profitable on the Xbox brand.

Not only that but the 360 has been a profitable system since 2010 and that's not counting all of the kinects sold as well as the $4.8 billion that xbox live estimates to make per quarter.

MS only recently started making profits on the Xbox, but they are so far in the hole, that they have a long way to go to actually being profitable on their Xbox venture.

see example below

And don't use the bullshit excuse that Microsoft is using unfair bussiness pratices about using money from one market to fuel another. If tthat were the case Sony,apple, and google would have been hit as well right? That's how business goes. If the other guy cant compete he is obviously playing out of his league. (Like oyua for example)

Well, I'm almost positive that there was a good reason for MS splitting up their divisions a few years back so that each division has to manage their own profit and losses and can't siphon off of their most profitable division forever. I'm sure there was also a good reason that MS pre-spent $1.1Billion in RRoD repair cost just prior to this restructuring so that it would be absorbed by the new division splits so that there wouldn't be yet another red mark on the Xbox division's "profit" margin.

& Xbox Live seems to be the only thing actually making money for MS in their Xbox Division and that's mostly because people are paying to be advertised to, making MS money twice.

& I also don't remember Sony, Google or Apple  purposely losing billions of dollars to buy it's way into a market with no plan of making any actual profits for the next 5-8 years (thanks to the profits from it's other sector absorbing any and all loses). Sony & Apple have been charging a Premium on everything they sell for decades now, and Google doesn't really "sell" anything.

MS has gotten in trouble on numerous occasion, in numerous markets for "unfair business practices" that you claim are bullshit, so I don't see how it's a stretch to point out how they were dancing the line once again.

[Kairon]

I'm sure there are unfair business practices to debate, but simply being willing to invest big and not see profit for 10 years doesn't strike me as one of them. Also, it doesn't matter that XBox is technically in the red over its lifetime, what matters is whether it makes sense to carry that business into fiscal year 2013, 2014, and onwards regardless of what fiscal year 2005 was.

I think that MS sees XBox the same way Google sees Android. I think Google got into the mobile phone market because they felt they had to become active to protect their search engine business from an iOS/smartphone-driven internet that bypassed their search page. In much the same way, Microsoft probably sees XBox as an early line of defense against Living Room computing that threatens to send PCs, and MS' OS business, the way of the dodo.

Basically, it might not matter if Android and XBox themselves aren't profitable as long as they protect the actual profitable industries that the companies REALLY care about.

[shingi_70]

You dorealize there is no xbox divsion right. Its the entertaiment divsionwhich includes

Xbox
Windows phone
Zune
Kin

The xbox itself has been profitable for a time now. Problem there are other not so profitable products lumped in whichcasues a whole. Not that it really matters to microsoft is the long run.



By TV race I'm talking about the changing langscape of the gaming market. Some people here may not like this but going forward a game console just won't be a game console. This gen will be the last one where you can sell a game console without any non gaming features or an enstentive ecosystem without expecting it to sale. Look at Microsofts E3 confrence, or Nintendos E3 launch event. Games are no longer the main and sole purpose why these boxes are going to be sold.


Of course microsoft sees the xbox as their trojan horse into the living room. This has arubly been the first time microsoft has actully been the fist on the ball. The eariler OG xbox interviews with gates and allard have pretty much alluded to that.


Also there is quite a big diffrence in google/apple/sony in the markets. I would never use sony as an example of anything good currently. The vita won't be estimated to make money until late next year and that's only if it hits its estimated target which it won't. Sony has been selling prenium for years and looks where its gotten them they are not the market leader in any field. The only thing keeping that rotting corpse floating are its imaging and finance division. Sucks to because they make some nice phones and cameras.

Google and Apple haven't entered in a market where the investments have been a crazy amount of money lost. Also they (microsoft) purposly entered the market because like I said above the losses don't really matter much in the long run. They just had one of their most protitable quaters this year.

The thing is they want to lock you into their ecosystem and make you dependent on it. Its the itunes effect for lack of a better term. Its not about making money on hardware (though that would be nice) but making money from the software purchases (xbox music/tv , xbox live, dashboard ads). So far they have been succesful as other than the roku the xbox is probably the most succesful all in one box to date. Its succeded where the apple tv and google tv has failed.

Another big thing that keeps the profit in a whole is the insistance to future proof the console in favor of the 10 year+ console life. While that digs awhole it makes sense seeing as the attach rate for televisons are ususally a new tv every ten years. Makes sense to try and synch your console with consumer buying habits.

I'm wondering if your going to see a new upgrade to the apple TV this year and whatexcatly happened to the nexus Q

[BlackNMild2k1]

You dorealize there is no xbox divsion right. Its the entertaiment divsionwhich includes

Xbox
Windows phone
Zune
Kin

The xbox itself has been profitable for a time now. Problem there are other not so profitable products lumped in whichcasues a whole. Not that it really matters to microsoft is the long run.

Yes i realize there is no Xbox Division, and im sure you know what i meant by that. But my point is that Xbox as a brand wouldn't exist right now if it weren't propped up on Windows profits, and to this day has yet to make any positive income.

I fully understand the bigger picture and MS's intent with keeping the livingroom from being locked up by Sony or even worse.... Apple (who wasn't even a consideration at the time, but obviously a threat now).

[TJ Spyke]

Actually, the Xbox brand is profitable now and has been for a couple of years.

[Fatty The Hutt]

X-Box Division
It Does Not Exist At All
Where Does Game Come From?
 
/haiku

[shingi_70]

The funniest thing about everyone being afraid of apple is there isn't any real tangible reasons to. The apple TV has been a "hobby" for years now and is a real underwhelming product for anyone who hasn't gone all into the apple ecosystem. 


Apple has everyone scared on the basis that it could pull out another ipad/ipod success. what people fail to realize is all of those products have been successful out the gate while apple TV is attached to what's arubly the most powerful hardware/software ecosystem to date.


I think a big part of it has to due with other than the Roku a device that only functions using media is as unappealing as something that only plays games. That and apple TV is probably the most un-apple product non counting ios6.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Actually, the Xbox brand is profitable now and has been for a couple of years.

care to show me where?

I provided a chart that was relevant into 2011 (FY2010) where thanks in part to Xbox Live, they started to reverse the trend.

pre-post edit:

Here is an article from beginning of 2011:
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-01-28/tech/30063548_1_xbox-live-money-pit-kinect
stating that Xbox now makes $1billion annually, but you fail to realize that they still have to make up for all the losses they've incurred up to that point, which would mean that even with a start of $1B in profit for FY 2010, that would still put project Xbox @ (negative)-$5B.

Other highlights included Kinect and Xbox sales, which helped the Entertainment and Devices business beat $1 billion in annual operating profit for the first time ever -- only two quarters into the fiscal year. Microsoft's Xbox business racked up more than $7 billion in operating losses in the early years, but if it continues to crank at the current rate, the company might finally start earning back its investment in a few years.

So unless they just made > $6Billion in profit for FY 2011, then I would say that Xbox still has yet to make a profit.

and here is another article from a year later that states they are doing about the same
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-19/microsoft-profit-tops-estimates-on-xbox-demand.html
which I would estimate at 1+Billion more in profits for 2011, still leaves them in the hole about 5 or so billion, and I'm not even sure that counts the 1.1B that they had set aside for RRoD before the department shuffle (although I think it does).

pre-post edit 2:

Another article stating the "Xbox Division" and their profit/loss
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403294,00.asp

Microsoft's Xbox division reported disappointing results, recording a 16 percent drop in revenue, to $1.62 billion. The unit also reported a $229 million operating loss, versus a $210 million profit a year ago.

So how and where is the Xbox Brand profitable? They may be making money now, but they are not profitable quite yet.


So unless I'm reading all those statements wrong....

MS has yet to even see the light at the other end of the tunnel when it comes to being profitable on the Xbox brand.

[Fatty The Hutt]

On-Screen Soldier Shoots
8 Year Old Boy Screams At Me
I Muse: This Is Gold?
 
/haiku

[Kairon]

The Hutt writes haiku
Oh Relevant, witty poem!
Applaud the author!

/haiku

[shingi_70]

Bows

[TJ Spyke]

The Hutt writes haiku
Oh Relevant, witty poem!
Applaud the author!

/haiku

LOL, technically "poem" is two syllables. So line 2 has 8 syllables.

[Kairon]

The Hutt writes haiku
Oh Relevant, witty poem!
Applaud the author!

/haiku

LOL, technically "poem" is two syllables. So line 2 has 8 syllables.

ARGH KAIRON SMASH I CANT EVEN SPEAK THE ONLY LANGUAGE I KNOW CORRECTLY FRIGGIN' "POME" VS "PO-EM"!!!

[Chozo Ghost]

It should be the rule for a day that all posts must be in Haiku form

[shingi_70]

http://beefjack.com/news/ms-xbox-is-becoming-the-microsoft-brand-for-entertainment/

 MS: “Xbox is becoming THE Microsoft brand for entertainment”

News: From now on, all Microsoft entertainment and gaming experiences will carry the Xbox branding even on Windows, says senior director Leonardo Metelli, who has also been talking about how entertainment rather than gaming is now the major growth area on Xbox Live, and how Kinect will drive whole new types of advertising on their home console – including the slightly creepy “Two-Way TV”.

Leonardo Metelli, Microsoft‘s senior director of Xbox Live Entertainment and Advertising, has been talking at the ad:tech conference in London about how the Xbox brand has grown beyond just the home console bearing its name, and how the company intend to leverage the massively growing market for consuming entertainment on Xbox Live and their Kinect peripheral to create new styles of advertising experience.

Metelli set out the new non-hardware focus for the Xbox name by stating: “Xbox is becoming THE Microsoft brand for entertainment”, and highlighted just why entertainment is now as important to Xbox Live as gaming.

In 2012 “there are more hours being spent on entertainment than gaming,” Metelli said, and, while gaming figures have not dropped, usage of entertainment apps has doubled on Xbox Live year on year. There has also been a 30% increase in overall Xbox Live use year on year as well.

Metelli also revealed that Microsoft are keen to promote new advertising opportunities that make use of the distinctive features of Xbox Live and the Kinect sensor peripheral. “Branded Destination Experiences” – Kinect-enabled “microsite” advertisements on Xbox Live – are one, while Nuads, featuring gesture, voice and controller ad interactivity, will allow brands to get real-time feedback from viewers.

Perhaps the most potent – and mildly Orwellian – use for Kinect will be something Microsoft are calling “Two-Way TV”, television programming that reflects the viewer’s input, taking into account what the user is expressing and whether they are actively engaged to alter the way a programme plays out. Sesame Street and National Geographic TV are already signed up to Two-Way TV, which launches on Xbox Live this week.

[ShyGuy]

Isn't the Zune deader than a strip club on Sunday morning?