Topic: XboxOne ~News/Rumor/Speculation~ Biggest Console Released This Gen!!

[Chozo Ghost]

It was bad enough that the Xbox forced you to pay in order to play online, but at least you had the option of playing your games offline. Now you can't even do that? Even if the Xbox 420 somehow ended up being the only console in existence I would still refuse to have anything to do with it if that is the requirement. I would just live off the thousands and thousands of retro games already in existence.

[Enner]

Hmm, maybe Microsoft is settling for Xbox Live Gold subscriptions and marketplace purchases for the Xbox 3. As for the audience that don't hook up their Xbox to the internet, perhaps Microsoft expects to sell Xbox 360s and Kinects very far in to the future?

Requiring an internet connection will be a ballsy and divisive move for a home console. If one company is going for it, Microsoft has the highest chances of pulling it off.

[Ian Sane]

One thing to note about PC games like Diablo III is that it is game-by-game.  It isn't like EVERY game or program on a PC requires you to be online at all times.  Some do, some don't and if it bothers you you can just avoid the software that requires it and otherwise still enjoy your PC.  A console would affect everything.  If a PC required it for every program it probably wouldn't sell worth a ****.  It's not even about one's intentions to go online.  Everyone knows that internet connections can be finicky and conk out for seemingly no reason at random times.  So you lose all your progress because your ISP sucks?  Even the suckers that buy this will quickly turn on it once that happens a few times.

Plus let's not forget that Diablo III is not out yet.  We don't know if this will affect its sales or not or if the whole concept will go over like a lead balloon.  We're just assuming that because it's Blizzard it will be fine but we don't know yet.

[Chozo Ghost]

We don't know if this will affect its sales or not or if the whole concept will go over like a lead balloon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGdHRupe7Zc

[Ceric]

Diablo III could require procuring a first born and giving them to Blizzard as payment and it would still sell decently.  The Diablo series, in General, Blizzard has had a real bad time with Pirating.  As far as DRM is going what they are doing really isn't that bad.  It stinks you can't play Offline.  I will admit that, but its better then half baked DRM solutions. 

I do wonder how long Internet can keep its current status and not become a service like Electricity and Phone.

[tendoboy1984]

Diablo III could require procuring a first born and giving them to Blizzard as payment and it would still sell decently.  The Diablo series, in General, Blizzard has had a real bad time with Pirating.  As far as DRM is going what they are doing really isn't that bad.  It stinks you can't play Offline.  I will admit that, but its better then half baked DRM solutions. 

I do wonder how long Internet can keep its current status and not become a service like Electricity and Phone.

Internet access is already a service. You pay to acquire a modem / router that you use to connect to the Internet.

[tendoboy1984]

I just wanna remind you guys that I had it written on a napkin (by the same person that fed me RE6 on Wii U) that X720 aka "Durango" isn't coming till 2014, and PS3 is supposed to be 2013.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg721397;topicseen#msg721397
so take that how you will, but I would suggest a spoonful of sugar salt.

So Microsoft is going to ride the 360 wave as long as they can? Good for them.


As for Sony, they should do a "wait and see" approach with the PS4, since they still haven't completely recovered financially from the PS3's disastrous launch (which was 6 years ago).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I just wanna remind you guys that I had it written on a napkin (by the same person that fed me RE6 on Wii U) that X720 aka "Durango" isn't coming till 2014, and PS3 is supposed to be 2013.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg721397;topicseen#msg721397
so take that how you will, but I would suggest a spoonful of sugar salt.

So Microsoft is going to ride the 360 wave as long as they can? Good for them.


As for Sony, they should do a "wait and see" approach with the PS4, since they still haven't completely recovered financially from the PS3's disastrous launch (which was 6 years ago).

Sony seems to be confident that PS3 will ship by Xmas 2013 and ahead of Xbox720
http://ht.ly/a1pXW  <--VG24/7
and I've heard atleast one rumor (independent of the napkin) about why Xbox might not make 2013....

Maybe Sony heard the same thing....?

[Louieturkey]

We're talking about Microsoft right? The only company to not have a wireless card come standard? Also, the company that asked you to pay $100 if you wanted to buy one.

They're also the company with a giant 'Ghostbusters' brick attached to their console, to trap the ghosts of all RROD machines just before they ascend to the heavens.

We're talking about that Microsoft right?

Remember that M$ rushed the 360 to market to be first for the new generation.  The sacrifices they made cost them a lot with the RROD and no wireless.   This time around, they probably will be last and RROD will probably not happen (at least not in the numbers we saw before the slim was released).

[Louieturkey]

Plus let's not forget that Diablo III is not out yet.  We don't know if this will affect its sales or not or if the whole concept will go over like a lead balloon.  We're just assuming that because it's Blizzard it will be fine but we don't know yet.

It doesn't seem to have held back Starcraft II sales and that also requires an always-on internet connection.

[Ceric]

Diablo III could require procuring a first born and giving them to Blizzard as payment and it would still sell decently.  The Diablo series, in General, Blizzard has had a real bad time with Pirating.  As far as DRM is going what they are doing really isn't that bad.  It stinks you can't play Offline.  I will admit that, but its better then half baked DRM solutions. 

I do wonder how long Internet can keep its current status and not become a service like Electricity and Phone.

Internet access is already a service. You pay to acquire a modem / router that you use to connect to the Internet.

Bolded for emphasis.  Internet is not treated like Electricity and Phones which is regulated and governmentally funded for the benefit of the citizenship.

[SixthAngel]

We shouldn't be comparing pc game sales to console game sales when it comes to always on internet.  Everyone's pc is already connected to the internet and requires no extra work or wires for the game.  It is rare to find a pc not connected to the internet 99% of the time.  Not only that but most of pc sales seem to come from DD right now.

Consoles on the other hand are often times not connected to the internet at all.  73% of 360 users connected to the internet 76% of ps3s and 54% of Wiis.  (source) This is just connected to the internet at some point, not continually connected or actually pay for xbox live, a number that would be much lower.

That is a sizable amount of the current market who would not be buying your always connected console.  In the future the percent will probably go up but it is going to be sizable portion of the current audience that the next box would get rid of in an attempt to double down and wring more money from a smaller user base by destroying their ability to buy used.
It would basically be the opposite of Nintendo's strategy.  Focus on smaller dedicated market and get them to spend more money.
 

They're also the company with a giant 'Ghostbusters' brick attached to their console, to trap the ghosts of all RROD machines just before they ascend to the heavens.
 

Love the description.

[TJ Spyke]

Plus let's not forget that Diablo III is not out yet.  We don't know if this will affect its sales or not or if the whole concept will go over like a lead balloon.  We're just assuming that because it's Blizzard it will be fine but we don't know yet.

It doesn't seem to have held back Starcraft II sales and that also requires an always-on internet connection.

The difference is that Diablo is single-player only, there is not multiplayer in it. So the constant Internet connection is ridiculous.

[NWR_insanolord]

Plus let's not forget that Diablo III is not out yet.  We don't know if this will affect its sales or not or if the whole concept will go over like a lead balloon.  We're just assuming that because it's Blizzard it will be fine but we don't know yet.

It doesn't seem to have held back Starcraft II sales and that also requires an always-on internet connection.

The difference is that Diablo is single-player only, there is not multiplayer in it. So the constant Internet connection is ridiculous.

What are you talking about? Of course Diablo III has multiplayer; they cut the competitive multiplayer, but it still does co-op, which is a pretty big emphasis of it. It's still stupid to require always-on Internet even when playing single player, but Diablo III is no worse than any other game doing it.

[ShyGuy]

So I guess the rumore is the next Xbox will have 16 cored. I'm guessing 4 cores with 4 threads each in reality. Maybe next gen devs will actually get better at mult-ithreaded games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

16Core Xbox720 = $999 US DOLLARS (MS's NeoGeo)

4 core with 4 threads seems way more believable and achievable at a price we won't all laugh at.

[Chozo Ghost]

I looked at what a 16 core CPU is going for on Amazon and found this http://www.amazon.com/Amd-Opteron-sixteen-core-Model-6272/dp/B00671DLCU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1333815085&sr=8-4

$539.99, but the price would probably drop a lot between now and 1-2 years from now when the 420 launches. Plus Microsoft wouldn't have to pay the middle man like consumers such as us have to, and they could buy it in bulk also. Maybe with all things considered they might be able to get the chip for $100 a unit or something by then? Then if the rest of the console is made up of a total of $200 worth of stuff then a $300 price tag might be do able. They would probably sell it at a loss anyway, so...

But I'm just talking out of my ass. I really have no knowledge of how this is going to go down.

[BlackNMild2k1]

$100 on just the CPU and you expect the rest of the console to only cost $200 more?

even if we cut out the middle man and do a customization of the chip down to just what is needed for MS's needs and factor in mass production for a bulk order, that chip would still likely cost them $300+.

Then take the other rumor of a GPU in the HD7000 class which will run you atleast $200 (we'ere pulling off the shelf price here) shrunken down to a customized chip...... maybe $100 a chip

then we take the other rumor of Dual GPU's... $200 for both

You are not gonna get 16cores and dual GPU's and then skimp on RAM, so 8GB ram minimum...
system RAM ($75?), audio, Bluray drive($50?), HDD($100?), controller($15?),

edit: I forgot to add in Kinect 2.0
better cameras and 2-4 person tracking down to the fingertips. ($200?)

and that is just taking a very broad overview of what might need to be considered.
we are talking a really, really expensive console here.

But if they are willing to eat the cost of all that, I might be willing to buy it.

[Chozo Ghost]

BnM, the one factor you are forgetting is this is going to launch 1-2 years from now. We can't go by current prices for all these components. By the time the system launches the cost of all these components will have dropped substantially. 16 core processors are cutting edge expensive stuff right now because they are new, but a year or two from now the market will have 32 core or maybe even 64 core processors and 16 core processors might be at where 8 or 4 core processors are today.

A search for an 8 core processor on Amazon shows one at $189.99. 1-2 years from now this is probably where the 16 core cpus will be, and then factor in the customization, cutting out of the middle man, and bulk purchasing of the units, and MS should be able to cut that in half. So $100 or less per unit on a 16 core processor is I think doable, but the thing you have to keep in mind is this has to be 1-2 years into the future. It can't be pulled off right now at current market prices obviously.

[BlackNMild2k1]

ok
$100 for the cpu,
$100 for the gpu,
$100 for the HDD & BRD
$100 for Kinect 2.0
$100 for RAM
$99 for misc other stuff
--------------------------------
$599 US DOLLARS

oh, plus packaging, RRoD Ins. , marketing, retailer cut, shipping & R&D
...where is the profit margin on this product?

[Chozo Ghost]

Wasn't there talk about the X420 being digital download only? I don't know if that's true or not, but that would knock off the BRD and its associated cost. Kinect 2.0 could be sold separately from the system just like Kinect 1 was. They could also do like the Wii U is doing and rip out the HDD in favor for some onboard flash and/or an SD card slot. By the time the thing launches they should be able to offer 32gb or 64gb of on board flash for a minimal cost.

Realistically, I think MS will repeat what they've done with the 360 and offer multiple SKUs. The basic low end 420 Arcade unit would come without Kinect 2.0, BRD, or HDD, but you can be able to purchase all of those as separate add ons if you desire. The low end Arcade SKU might run $299 or so. Then there would be the 420 Elite model which has all of that stuff integrated by default and that might run $499 or something. There could also be an intermediate model which offers some but not all of those things.

[Ceric]

Kinect 2.0 will be with every version.  It be like a WiiU sold without the uMote.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wasn't there talk about the X420 being digital download only? I don't know if that's true or not, but that would knock off the BRD and its associated cost. Kinect 2.0 could be sold separately from the system just like Kinect 1 was. They could also do like the Wii U is doing and rip out the HDD in favor for some onboard flash and/or an SD card slot. By the time the thing launches they should be able to offer 32gb or 64gb of on board flash for a minimal cost.

Realistically, I think MS will repeat what they've done with the 360 and offer multiple SKUs. The basic low end 420 Arcade unit would come without Kinect 2.0, BRD, or HDD, but you can be able to purchase all of those as separate add ons if you desire. The low end Arcade SKU might run $299 or so. Then there would be the 420 Elite model which has all of that stuff integrated by default and that might run $499 or something. There could also be an intermediate model which offers some but not all of those things.

Tell me why in the world would they sell a disc dive-less version and not include a massive HDD?

And all the rumors say that Kinect 2.0 is integral to the design and will be included out of the box.
So if you are gonna have a dream scenarios, then they should both have Kinect in the box and either a BRD and/or HDD.

[Shorty McNostril]

It doesn't matter if it is a really expensive system.  They will just mark it up and recover a bit of the loss in Australia.  Everywhere else will get it for a reasonable price.

[Chozo Ghost]

Tell me why in the world would they sell a disc dive-less version and not include a massive HDD?

As I said, it would include on board flash storage. And if that's not enough (which for non-casuals it most certainly isn't), then the option exists to buy a separate (probably proprietary) HDD addon at additional cost. In the end consumers are still paying a huge amount on the console, but by breaking it up and getting people to pay for things in installments MS would be able to fool people into thing the TCO (total cost of ownership) of the 420 is less than it really is.

And its no different that what Nintendo is doing with the HDD less Wii U, except Microsoft might actually offer more than the mere pittance of 8gb that Nintendo is offering. Let's say its 32gb or maybe 64gb of onboard flash. 2 years from now the price of that should be reasonable and therefore do able.

Let's not forget the original low end 360 SKU was HDD less, and required 256mb Memory cards, which were useless for anything except save information. Now their low end 360 offers 4gb onboard flash, which is still far from sufficient for any serious gamer, but again that's what the add on proprietary HDD is for.

And all the rumors say that Kinect 2.0 is integral to the design and will be included out of the box.
So if you are gonna have a dream scenarios, then they should both have Kinect in the box and either a BRD and/or HDD.

The thing about Kinect is its for casuals and it also requires a significant amount of living room space to set it up. Most hardcore gamers have zero interest in it. They like having their xboxes to play Halo or COD. Although, I suppose if and when Kinect compatible versions hit the market they may start caring about it. But right now Kinect seems to appeal mostly to kids and soccer moms, and not the hardcore crowd.