Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread

[Ian Sane]

Two systems that can swap games sounds more doable, more cost effective, and solves more problems. It'll still be a pain in the ass for developers, having to develop a game that works on both hardware systems. Still, this allows Nintendo to widen its support for both systems at once, and keep costs down while matching the market.

Isn't this pretty much the same routine that the PS4 and Vita have?  The Vita gets a lot of PS4 ports and that probably played a part in it's weak sales in the West since it doesn't seem like that essential of a purchase.  The 3DS is worth owning even if you don't care at all about portability because it has great games you can't get anywhere else.  If Nintendo makes the lineup of their two systems identical then their handheld loses all appeal aside from portability so the sales will be worse than the 3DS since it will lose those that just bought it for the games.  It goes from an essential videogame system to just a way to play games on the go and that's a big reason why non-Nintendo handhelds have struggled.  To focus development on one lineup of games, some sort of hybrid makes more sense.

Wait...what? Do you know how the Vita/PS4 Link works? You have to be within an internet/router connection for it to work. It is connecting to your PS4 and sending the game via an IP to your Vita. Having two systems swap games, like I propose, is a completely different method (and a much better one).

Furthermore, having one game you swap and having two games, one of which is a port, is also completely different than what I'm talking about.

No, it's not exactly the same as the PS4/Vita.  It's a better idea for sure.  But my point is that today the 3DS isn't just a portable way to play Wii U games while the PSP and PS Vita have struggled because they come across as that for the PS3 and PS4.  In that case it involves having two different versions of the game which isn't really what people want.

But there are 3DS owners who don't give a damn about portability and basically play it exclusively at home.  They bought it for its exclusives.  Most of those people also own at least one console since they prefer the home experience.  If they could JUST buy a console and get all those games to play at home they would never bother with a handheld.  The Vita has been hurt by that since so many of it's games are multiplatform with the PS4.  The appeal is more to get the handheld experience as opposed to buying the system simply for it's library whether you care about portability or not.

If Nintendo has two systems with the same games for both with crossplay, that is a better option than the PS4/Vita combo, but it also makes the handheld an unnecessary purchase for those that bought Nintendo handhelds solely to access its library.  The handheld will almost certainly sell less than the 3DS for this reason.  Instead of being strong videogame systems in their own right, Nintendo handhelds will become a compromised console experience solely for those that feel the need to play games on the go.  And if you're down with compromised games on the go, hey, you've got a phone in your pocket already that can do that.  So it ends up being for those that want to play games on the go but want something with more meat than a mobile game.  Hardcore gaming enthusiasts will stick with the console since it will have the superior experience and casual players that just want a distraction on the bus will stick with their phones.  This group of customers that want something in-between is probably not that big.

I think a successful handheld these days has to either be very distinct from the consoles or part of some greater whole like these docking station ideas.

[MagicCow64]

@IanSane

Like I said, I'm with you on the general lack of appeal of playing 3D console games on the go. But at this point, what's a mobile console going to do? You can't put the processing genie back in the bottle. You could put out a super-cheap touch dealie that's meant to play 2D games/Fruit Ninja type junk, but what would be the point? Like you said, phones already do that. I'd say that Nintendo is probably pessimistic enough about the general dedicated device market that they're willing to forgo revenue streams from selling two different devices with mostly discreet game libraries (and double dipping), and thus the single device has to do both home and console duty.

Buuut, there's a new rumor percolating that some dude on a Brazilian forum leaked the NX concept a while ago, and that it's radically modular. Screens, controller parts, additional processing units, whathaveyou, allowing you to build from a basic touch unit up to a current gen console depending on your proclivities and budget. Extreme skepticism is warranted, but going whole hog in this direction would be quite a curveball, and would fill in some of the missing pieces we all seem to be detecting about the Eurogamer leak.

[Stogi]

Two systems that can swap games sounds more doable, more cost effective, and solves more problems. It'll still be a pain in the ass for developers, having to develop a game that works on both hardware systems. Still, this allows Nintendo to widen its support for both systems at once, and keep costs down while matching the market.

Isn't this pretty much the same routine that the PS4 and Vita have?  The Vita gets a lot of PS4 ports and that probably played a part in it's weak sales in the West since it doesn't seem like that essential of a purchase.  The 3DS is worth owning even if you don't care at all about portability because it has great games you can't get anywhere else.  If Nintendo makes the lineup of their two systems identical then their handheld loses all appeal aside from portability so the sales will be worse than the 3DS since it will lose those that just bought it for the games.  It goes from an essential videogame system to just a way to play games on the go and that's a big reason why non-Nintendo handhelds have struggled.  To focus development on one lineup of games, some sort of hybrid makes more sense.

Wait...what? Do you know how the Vita/PS4 Link works? You have to be within an internet/router connection for it to work. It is connecting to your PS4 and sending the game via an IP to your Vita. Having two systems swap games, like I propose, is a completely different method (and a much better one).

Furthermore, having one game you swap and having two games, one of which is a port, is also completely different than what I'm talking about.

No, it's not exactly the same as the PS4/Vita.  It's a better idea for sure.  But my point is that today the 3DS isn't just a portable way to play Wii U games while the PSP and PS Vita have struggled because they come across as that for the PS3 and PS4.  In that case it involves having two different versions of the game which isn't really what people want.

But there are 3DS owners who don't give a damn about portability and basically play it exclusively at home.  They bought it for its exclusives.  Most of those people also own at least one console since they prefer the home experience.  If they could JUST buy a console and get all those games to play at home they would never bother with a handheld.  The Vita has been hurt by that since so many of it's games are multiplatform with the PS4.  The appeal is more to get the handheld experience as opposed to buying the system simply for it's library whether you care about portability or not.

If Nintendo has two systems with the same games for both with crossplay, that is a better option than the PS4/Vita combo, but it also makes the handheld an unnecessary purchase for those that bought Nintendo handhelds solely to access its library.  The handheld will almost certainly sell less than the 3DS for this reason.  Instead of being strong videogame systems in their own right, Nintendo handhelds will become a compromised console experience solely for those that feel the need to play games on the go.  And if you're down with compromised games on the go, hey, you've got a phone in your pocket already that can do that.  So it ends up being for those that want to play games on the go but want something with more meat than a mobile game.  Hardcore gaming enthusiasts will stick with the console since it will have the superior experience and casual players that just want a distraction on the bus will stick with their phones.  This group of customers that want something in-between is probably not that big.

I think a successful handheld these days has to either be very distinct from the consoles or part of some greater whole like these docking station ideas.

but aren't you the one that complains of software droughts and a lack of third-party software? Who cares about hardware sales, software sales will more than cover the loss.

[ShyGuy]

NX is going to be surprisingly cheap

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-nx-the-pros-and-cons-of-a-transforming-portable/0170297

Early online speculation about pricing for the NX expects it to be cheaper than current consoles, but from what we’ve heard it’s going to be cheaper than even the vast majority expect. This is a machine that is targeting the mass market, and Nintendo certainly plans for it to have a mass market price.

[Parallax Scroll]

Buuut, there's a new rumor percolating that some dude on a Brazilian forum leaked the NX concept a while ago, and that it's radically modular. Screens, controller parts, additional processing units, whathaveyou, allowing you to build from a basic touch unit up to a current gen console depending on your proclivities and budget. Extreme skepticism is warranted, but going whole hog in this direction would be quite a curveball, and would fill in some of the missing pieces we all seem to be detecting about the Eurogamer leak.

That Brazilian leak is totally fake.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1254576

[Soren]

NX is going to be surprisingly cheap

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-nx-the-pros-and-cons-of-a-transforming-portable/0170297

Early online speculation about pricing for the NX expects it to be cheaper than current consoles, but from what we’ve heard it’s going to be cheaper than even the vast majority expect. This is a machine that is targeting the mass market, and Nintendo certainly plans for it to have a mass market price.

If it launches at $199 I will flip.

That Brazilian leak is totally fake.

Common sense.

[ShyGuy]

Latest: Direct Feed Gaming says that NX will use the new Tegra chip

https://twitter.com/DirectFeedGames/status/759072574777196544

Details about the chip: http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/29/why-the-nintendo-nx-wont-use-the-nvidia-corporatio.aspx

[Parallax Scroll]

Sounds more likely NX is going to have the next Tegra chip (X2 aka 'Parker)' which is based on Pascal architecture and is on 16nm.  The current NX dev-kits have Tegra X1, based on Maxwell architecture, and need active cooling. Developers can at least get used to working on Tegra hardware until the final NX hardware is ready with Pascal-based Tegra X2.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1254960

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=211844472&postcount=9636



https://twitter.com/directfeedgames/status/759072574777196544



Edit: beaten by ShyGuy.

[Soren]

If it is X2 then it's better, but now we really need a Tegra X2 siren to go along with the NX siren.

The rumor mill is starting to line up in a way. The idea that Nvidia promised the moon for a contract with Nintendo after losing out on the other consoles, and then Nintendo in a way passing the savings on to consumers, hence the "substantially cheaper" rumors seems to be gaining strength.

EDIT: This latest batch of rumors somehow also feels like it's addressing a certain portion of internet forum dwellers, so it deserves a big grain of salt as well.

[Enner]

Chips! A Tegra X2 would be an industry leading chip if the NX were to use it.

Hey, maybe the NX-AMD camp will get some rumors later on.

[Parallax Scroll]

Chips! A Tegra X2 would be an industry leading chip if the NX were to use it.

Yep.

Industry leading in terms of architecture (Pascal), industry leading in terms of manufacturing process (16nm FinFET). Obviously that never meant industry leading in terms of raw performance in a home console, but definitely in the handheld / mobile space.

[Oedo]

These rumours are almost lining up too nicely. Maybe the leak from a few days ago indeed had some truth to it (it makes sense in theory, but I'm still kinda having a hard time totally buying into it for some reason) so people are more willing to talk now as a result, but it feels more like all of these people coming out of the woodwork are just hitching their wagon to Eurogamer's information from a few days ago and the conjecture that followed it. Regardless, it would obviously be neat if the NX used a new, possibly more powerful chip than the one that's supposedly in dev kits right now and I do believe that launching at least one NX form factor below the price point of current gen consoles will be a priority for Nintendo.

[KeyBilly]

If things go as they usually do, the NX won't use a stock chip.  So, regardless of the architecture, we won't really know the general range of how many flops it can flop until people like the Digital Foundry do a deep dive on it.  Pascal should be better for power consumption and cooling regardless, so hopefully that rumor is true.  For a console of any sort to have an architecture so new would be very unusual.

[MagicCow64]

Buuut, there's a new rumor percolating that some dude on a Brazilian forum leaked the NX concept a while ago, and that it's radically modular. Screens, controller parts, additional processing units, whathaveyou, allowing you to build from a basic touch unit up to a current gen console depending on your proclivities and budget. Extreme skepticism is warranted, but going whole hog in this direction would be quite a curveball, and would fill in some of the missing pieces we all seem to be detecting about the Eurogamer leak.

That Brazilian leak is totally fake.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1254576

Looks like that thread is locked, but it wasn't proven fake. There's just nothing else to do with it for now and people are rightfully very skeptical. It's definitely a long-shot, but interesting to keep in mind heading toward the reveal. As I recall somebody posted assets from Breath of the Wild on Gamefaqs awhile ahead of E3 and was laughed off.

[BranDonk Kong]

There's no need to prove that thing fake, it's a Raspberry Pi with a touch screen and an LCD. The Tegra X1 would die in a matter of seconds if you ran it without a heat sink. Here's a link to the device in the screenshot - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/7-7-Inch-TFT-Touch-Screen-LCD-Display-for-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-or-B-HDMI/1491443_32217991621.html


Digital Foundry has completley confirmed that the NX has a Tegra X1 in the dev kits, but leave open the possibility of moving up to the X2. Sounds to me like it's the X2 in the final system. Sure it's not going to be as powerful as the PS4 or Xbone - but it will be a pretty damn impressive handheld console, and it will be much more powerful than the Wii U (the X1 already is).

[Shaymin]

Can someone explain this like I'm five?
http://pastebin.com/0hpCSbsR

[BranDonk Kong]

Sure, that guy is just pulling stuff out of his ass.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Can someone explain this like I'm five?
http://pastebin.com/0hpCSbsR

I'll take a shot at that....

"Tegra uses too much much power to be used as a portable machine with the max specs everyone is speculating. Trying to pack the power of Xb1 into a portable would wield the results of a Sega Nomad/GameGear in todays gaming space. To even entertain the idea would be like bumping the X1 -> to X2, like the GC -> to Wii, performance gains at a huge compromise."

[Enner]

Can someone explain this like I'm five?
http://pastebin.com/0hpCSbsR

The Tegra, as this anonymous engineer knows it and Nvidia, is a battery eater and will always be so.

These rumours are almost lining up too nicely. Maybe the leak from a few days ago indeed had some truth to it (it makes sense in theory, but I'm still kinda having a hard time totally buying into it for some reason) so people are more willing to talk now as a result, but it feels more like all of these people coming out of the woodwork are just hitching their wagon to Eurogamer's information from a few days ago and the conjecture that followed it.

Well, this is what corroboration is, isn't? Everyone who has kept their eyes and ears on the rumor watch has heard snippets throughout the year. Most of them just never had enough they thought to go to press with. Now that Eurogamer has stepped first, this helps others more confidently share what they have heard.

Of course, this will invite bad actors as well, but that's part of what is supposed to make this all fun!
(Never burn your source.)

[Adrock]

Nintendo releasing a handheld that's potentially two to three times more powerful than its current console with decent battery life and no heat sink (the entire point of going with Pascal) is pretty neat-o stuff. Should these rumors prove true and Nintendo/Nvidia actually pull this off, color me impressed.

I'm still trying to reconcile how Iwata could say "we are not saying that we are planning to integrate our platforms into one. What we are saying is that we would like to integrate software development methods, operating systems, and built-in software and software assets for each platform so that we can use them across different machines" then launch the exact opposite of that four years later. The best I could come up with was: a lot can change in a few years. Nvidia reportedly offered Nintendo an extremely lucrative deal (to the point where Nvidia only really gets to use NX to pitch its technology to other companies which may have been enough for the company). Maybe Nintendo management and internal hardware research and development teams saw Nvidia's offer and collectively decided, "Well, **** AMD. Let's do this instead."

[Soren]

Agreed. To a point I'm still not buying the idea of a hybrid, but I imagine Nvidia had to come with a pretty sweet offer.  Nintendo of course being a company used to turning down deals for "unprecedented partnerships".

[Oedo]

Can someone explain this like I'm five?
http://pastebin.com/0hpCSbsR

The Tegra, as this anonymous engineer knows it and Nvidia, is a battery eater and will always be so.

These rumours are almost lining up too nicely. Maybe the leak from a few days ago indeed had some truth to it (it makes sense in theory, but I'm still kinda having a hard time totally buying into it for some reason) so people are more willing to talk now as a result, but it feels more like all of these people coming out of the woodwork are just hitching their wagon to Eurogamer's information from a few days ago and the conjecture that followed it.

Well, this is what corroboration is, isn't? Everyone who has kept their eyes and ears on the rumor watch has heard snippets throughout the year. Most of them just never had enough they thought to go to press with. Now that Eurogamer has stepped first, this helps others more confidently share what they have heard.

Of course, this will invite bad actors as well, but that's part of what is supposed to make this all fun!
(Never burn your source.)

The speculation, rumours, and theories leading up to a console reveal are fun, for sure (if I didn't think so I wouldn't browse this thread as much as I do). The idea of someone riding the coattails of a person who appears to have done real, honest work does not feel very fun though. In the case of this Direct-Feed Gaming person, I'm not sure how Eurogamer's information changed anything for them. If it was about protecting their source, which would be understandable, they're in the same position they were in a week ago. Eurogamer didn't confirm anything when it came to a chip from Nvidia using this Pascal architecture: Eurogamer/Digital Foundry very clearly stated that part of their information was speculation. If this person is really confident that this chip will in the NX, it wouldn't make sense for this to be a case of Eurogamer filling in some blanks for them either. So what exactly changed? The rumoured information itself seems like a possibility given Eurogamer and Digital Foundry's reasoning from a few days ago, but the circumstances surrounding some of these corroborations seems questionable.

I should add that if we're talking about corroboration in the sense that people have come out and said that they're hearing the same things Eurogamer did, I'm more inclined to believe that. Regardless of how accurate or inaccurate Eurogamer's information is in the end, I do believe that they got it from sources they deemed trustworthy, so I can see how others would hear similar things from their sources. The stuff I'm skeptical about is some of this new information.

[ThePerm]

I can't wait until rumorville is over.

The Tegra rumors sounds like a bad idea. So they're probably true(half sarcastic). There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Wii U except that it was under powered.  If they had powered it a little higher they could have had a 7 year console instead of a 4 year console.

Instead of doing something new and wacky, I'd rather they just improve the Wii U. That being said a Hybrid console is in line of an improvement of the Wii U console. It's not a huge improvement, and I doubt it's future proof. I just hate the idea that again the technology and marketing driven companies will pass over Nintendo again. I was really annoyed by EA programmers publicly ranting about how they hate to program for WiiU. Oh you hate challenges? Then shut the **** up and stop being a programmer.

[ShyGuy]

This is another article talking about Tegra battery life:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3097641/hardware/nvidias-next-generation-tegra-mobile-chip-is-on-its-way.html

[MysticGohan]

I still believe it'll be amd based. Eurogamer thought the 3DS would have Nvidia inside.

They have been wrong, could just be a place holder.