Author Topic: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG  (Read 39696 times)

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Offline Halbred

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2010, 02:23:03 PM »
Yeah, the shark boss did require some grinding. Luckily, his dungeon is crawling with high XP baddies, so it's not a big deal. He might be toughest boss in the game, not counting a certain Monster Town secret boss. Even Smithy isn't a big deal if you've got the Lazy Shell on Peach.
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Offline Jet Pilot

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2010, 06:59:05 PM »
Dang. Jet Pilot bringin' the h8t.

Just giving my honest opinion.  It's good to hear various opinions in discussions such as these.  I don't like the game, but I still find it interesting to read why others find it so enjoyable.

Offline Stratos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 04:38:23 AM »
I think it is a nice balance to hear strongly opposing opinions on matters, especially on games that are typically assumed to be universally liked.

Hearing people say they don't like or view less fondly titles like Super Mario World, Mario RPG or A Link To The Past helps me look at games in a different light or see things that I was missing before.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 04:40:42 AM »
This is easily one of my favorite games of all time, I remember when it first came out how the interactive battle system grabbed me (and still does). It is a perfect blend of RPG and action based combat. The game is funny and has some great enemy art designs as well.

What I enjoyed most was a good integration of secrets, including the special armor. Not only that but this game is what help propel Bowser to more then just the villain at the end of the series, it imbued him with a personality which has impacted every Mario game since then. It provided a unique twist in that the villain had to fight with the heroes to gain back what was his.

In addition to that I love all the cameos, such as Samus and even 8 bit Mario. Really I don't see how you can NOT like this game, it has so much charm and personality along with it providing a unique blend of RPG and action elements.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2010, 04:56:08 PM »
I forgot how much I loved Booster. He fits the tone so perfectly: a goofy villain that's hard to take seriously, but he still makes life troublesome. Plus, his tower was fantastic. Not only did it have so many fun toys to mess around with (8-bit Mario FTW!), but the design change to vertical rather than horizontal levels was a nice way of mixing things up. The isometric perspective worked against me when trying to land on that stupid seesaw, though. :-/ Again, mixing platforming with this view was a mistake.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2010, 05:28:10 PM »
I forgot how much I loved Booster. He fits the tone so perfectly: a goofy villain that's hard to take seriously, but he still makes life troublesome. Plus, his tower was fantastic. Not only did it have so many fun toys to mess around with (8-bit Mario FTW!), but the design change to vertical rather than horizontal levels was a nice way of mixing things up. The isometric perspective worked against me when trying to land on that stupid seesaw, though. :-/ Again, mixing platforming with this view was a mistake.

It was a nuisance at best, I managed without much trouble to navigate the isometric perspective.
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Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »
One thing that's really amazing is how quickly you reach the 999 coin maximum-it's really easy, particularly compared to the M&L games. That's probably why they introduced the alternative Frog Coin system.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2010, 02:17:32 AM »
(Booster is basically a sexed-up Wario)
That's what always confused me. Why didn't they use Wario here? I don't buy the excuse that they didn't want Wario to be "sexed-up", since they've pretty much done that to Wario over the years anyway. (Heck, Wario would use the phrase "hubba-hubba ding dong" all the time at his E3 apperances.)
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2010, 12:34:49 PM »
This is one of my favorite games ever. The way that the story is presented, the music, and characters make it so endearing. The battle system is really great with the timing playing such a big part, almost as if it's a rhythm game. More games should have that system, though a good one to check out is Eternal Sonata which has a Blocking system that is similar.
I really wish that the characters (especially Geno) would make an appearance in another game. I would love to see them in the next Smash Brothers Game.
 All in all, this is a great game, and I'm stoked that it's the RetroActive this time around.

Offline Halbred

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2010, 12:52:42 PM »
I'm really getting into it. Last night I added Geno to my party. I really, really like talking with NPC's. They almost all have something interesting to say, and the localization is great. I'd forgotten how much fun the battle system is--I especially like how most of Mario's weapons have different "sweet spots," timing-wise. However, it's hard to ignore the fact that, even if you're not grinding, if you ARE good at the timing, most battles are easily won.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »
Well I am at Bowser's Keep. I will tackle it after I finish the sidequests. I am missing the fertilizer item. I don't recall where it is at the moment. Does anybody know where it is? I need it for the Lazy Shell. I have the Seed already.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2010, 01:50:01 PM »
Well I am at Bowser's Keep. I will tackle it after I finish the sidequests. I am missing the fertilizer item. I don't recall where it is at the moment. Does anybody know where it is? I need it for the Lazy Shell. I have the Seed already.

It's in the cloud town. After you beat the boss for that area, try walking at the edges of the town (I can't remember the exact location). There's an invisible walkway that will take you to a small platform. You'll find it there.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2010, 03:27:42 PM »
Thank you for your help. So I got past the first part of Bowsers Keep. I just have 1 area to go till I face Smithy. I am at level 22 and I am going to finish up the side quests.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2010, 02:59:54 AM »
So I just put in an hour or so in an old save file about two-thirds of the way through the game. Some quick thoughts:
1) The translation definitely holds up. It isn't as quirky as the Mario & Luigi series, but it's at least as good, if not better than, the Paper Mario series that succeeded this game. The story also introduces friendly monsters (Bowser and his troops / ex-troops), which later Mario RPG games definitely ran with.

2) The graphics don't hold up nearly as well. In fact, I'd almost call the game ugly, even using a tube TV. Maybe it's the isometric angle used, but everything seems mushy, even things like character faces. The pre-rendered graphics aren't causing any serious gameplay problems for me, perhaps because I've played the game several times, but the defense / attack timing still comes off as odd. I learned the timing with Mario, Peach, and Bowser way back when through trial and error, but I still have trouble with Mallow and Geno.

3) The special attacks are pretty useless. I'm finding myself avoiding all of my special moves, save for Princess Toadstool's healing powers. (Is it odd that I want to call her Peach now? This game taught me that she tastes "peachy"....)
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Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2010, 10:04:13 AM »
3) The special attacks are pretty useless. I'm finding myself avoiding all of my special moves, save for Princess Toadstool's healing powers. (Is it odd that I want to call her Peach now? This game taught me that she tastes "peachy"....)

Better than like chicken (a line used in another Square RPG). ;) I agree that the special attacks are mostly useless, with the exception of Mallow's thunderbolt and Mario's flame attacks, and of course Peach's healing moves. Speaking of Peach, while she does have the typical female RPG character healing moves, she does not have the typical ranged weapons you see-she gets in there and takes it to the enemies, sometimes with her (almost) bare hands. Aside from the Mario 3 cartoon, this may be the best Princess.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »
Once Bowser and Peach step in, Mallow and Geno are basically worthless. I found it interesting that Mallow leveled up one time while he wasn't in my party, suggesting that all the characters get experience from fights. I'm really blowing through the game...I beat Bowyer and Punchinello in like a half hour.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 10:10:11 PM »
I wouldn't say Geno and Mallow is worthless. Mallow can help with certain Bosses. Geno's Geno Boost move can help boost attack and defenses and speed up boss battles quicker. I think the thing that holds Bowser back is his speed and Special defense. Geno in my opinion is better. As far as healing goes Toadstool has everybody beat. It doesn't hurt to have a extra healer though in Mallow.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2010, 10:58:39 PM »
Toadstool heals the entire party. Mallow heals one dude.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2010, 11:10:03 PM »
Looks like I'm the only person here who found Bowser completely useless, mainly due to his weak special attacks.  I used Geno (who has very powerful specials and some helpful Buffs) instead of him, along with Mario and Princess Toadstool.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2010, 12:22:39 AM »
Toadstool heals the entire party. Mallow heals one dude.
Yeah I know that. I was just saying that it can help if one of the 2 healers attack with magic than the other can heal.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2010, 01:18:58 AM »
Mallow is slightly more durable than Peach, but I also prefer Toadstool because her specials were far more useful overall. She goes through FP quickly, but a team built around Mario and Bowser will tear through enemies with just their standard attacks, so that's never been an issue for me. I suppose a team that has Peach and Mallow/Geno would probably have to keep a close eye on their FP, though.

Offline dococtorok

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2010, 02:26:46 AM »
I finished this game as a rental back when it was first released, and loved it.  Replaying it on VC, I'm struck by how little from this game was incorporated into later games in the Mario series.  Mario 2 took place in a completely different world, yet the Mushroom Kingdom these days has plenty of Shyguys and the like in its lineup.  But the only influence that Mario RPG had on later Mario games seems limited to the Paper Mario/Mario and Luigi saga alone.   Likely because of the bad blood that developed between Nintendo and Square.
 
I think the odd juxtaposition of Mario and Square-style RPG is why I prefer it over the later Mario role-playing games. It's similar to Kingdom Hearts in that way (or the novel "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"). The two styles don't necessarily work seamlessly in this game, in fact they're quite dissonant (the Mushroom Kingdom seems nothing like any depiction of it we've seen before or since).  But I enjoy the dichotomy - it is really a strange lovechild, and there is no other Mario game like it.   
 
I'm only a couple of hours in on this playthrough so I'm interested to find out if Geno really is as great of a character as I'm told he's supposed to be.  Mallow is kind of a Jar-Jar-esque tool, don't you think?
 
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2010, 03:22:58 PM »
In regards to Booster...back when the game first came out, I had just always assumed that Booster was some sort of weird alternate-version of Wario;  it does seem odd, as others have mentioned, that they used an entirely new character.   I would normally agree with the argument that Nintendo wouldn't like having Wario "sexed-up" at the time (since Nintendo was almost infamous for their censorship back in the 90s), then I remembered that the game has a couple of minor instances of suggestive humor regarding Peach.   I remembered finding the Princess Toadstool's ? ? ? item near the fireplace at the castle.   Given that the original item in Japan was called Peach's XXX, I find it odd that NOA chose to leave it in at all, given how protective they have traditionally been over their characters!

As a side note, given Miyamoto's reference to Princess Peach as a "glutton" last year, he doesn't seem to hold her morality or ethics in very high regard!  Perhaps Peach is the Marie Antoinette of the Mushroom Kingdom.  (A Mario RPG based on the French Revolution would be awesome, come to think of it! :P)

Anyway, Count me in among those who love this game unreservedly.   Yes, some of the game mechanics are dated, and yes, the graphics don't really look all that pretty anymore, but this game still has a lot of charm.   The music is top-notch, the characters are memorable, and the settings are very diverse and sort of have that story book, fantasy property that is both true to the Mario universe and is fun to play around in.  One of my greatest complaints about some of the later Mario RPGs was that some of the towns weren't very visually interesting...I hated the bland towns and NPCs in Super Paper Mario.    Anyway, that's not the case here.  Each town and game area has a very unique feel.

I think the writing is very impressive considering that most translations for RPGs or other text-heavy games really had a mixed bag of results throughout the 90s.  This is hands-down one of the better writing and translation efforts for the time.   Looking back now, some of the goofy, offbeat, slapstick humor that was so present in sections of Final Fantasy V and VI are very pervasive in this game as well; fortunately, it never reaches the over-the-top melodrama silliness of a typical Final Fantasy plot.

Just a few more quick observations:
- The parade at the end of the game is awesome, especially when it transitions to nighttime.  The music and the lights against the background of Peach's castle remind me of the light parades at Disney World.  See video at 8:35 or so...
-  I think that part of what makes Geno so popular is that his fate in the end of the game is bittersweet, especially for a Mario game.  He accomplished his task, and he has to leave his new friends.
- Maybe I'm in the minority, but I never disliked Mallow.  Early on in the game, he serves well as the character that delivers exposition to the player, since Mario doesn't talk during the game.
- I love Mario as a mime; it cracks me up when he acts out past events in the game.  I love that they've kept variations of that element of the other Mario RPG series.
- I Still love the Axem Rangers joke.  As someone who was annoyed with the Power Rangers phenomenon in the 90s, I thought this was a nice parody.
- No Luigi makes me a sad panda.  I wish that he could have been at least a temporary party member, an NPC or a supporting character with a bigger role.
- Always loved Super Mario 2/USA.  I wish that Wart could have made a cameo in the game, especially since the Shyguys and Snifits came to the party in Booster's Tower.
- I always thought that Valentina's in-game sprite was TERRIBLE.  I never could exactly tell what she was supposed to actually be!  I always wondered if she was actually some sort of weird, well-endowed mutant bird lady.  A look at the Mario Wiki shows that she was just wearing a parrot on her head.  Weird.  http://www.mariowiki.com/Valentina
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 04:12:50 PM by Sundoulos »
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2010, 10:54:02 PM »
I finally booted up SMRPG only to find that my save file was gone; I must have last played it before my Wii had to be repaired and the memory wiped. I'm not thrilled about starting over again, but I wasn't too far last time (the mole town).

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2010, 10:59:33 PM »
My first RPG was I believe Crystalis on the NES. Didn't really play RPGs in the SNES era.
The first major RPG that I played was Pokemon Blue. I didn't even play this game or Chrono Trigger till this gen on the VC and DS respectivly.
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