Topic: Xenon specs leaked again and confirmed.

[KDR_11k]

Article

While you might have read that leaked specsheet a while ago already (maybe slightly different), now the sheet has been confirmed as being mostly correct. The Xenon is claimed to sport a triple core PPC chip at 3.5 GHz (not known whether each core is clocked like that or that's all three added together) and 256MB of RAM. Microsoft stated they will up the RAM should Sony offer more than 256MB in the PS3(apparently they're going for numbers, not power). The graphics card is a 500MHz ATI and has direct access to the CPU's L2 cache. Microsoft is still going with the unified memory approach.
They claim a real maximum of 500M triangles per second and claim that it can be reached with certain shader programming.

I don't care that much, the most powerful machine still doesn't mean anything.

[manunited4eva22]

Access to the L2 cache?  Wow, cache coherency is going to go down the drain, stupid idea.

[Bill Aurion]

"Microsoft stated they will up the RAM should Sony offer more than 256MB in the PS3(apparently they're going for numbers, not power)"

That hurts my head... >_<

[Ian Sane]

What's the deal with this line?

"Interestingly, the outline acknowledges that developing games which take advantage of the system will be 'a daunting task,' going on to explain that 'writing multithreaded games is not trivial.'"

So MS is admitting that the Xenon will be hard to program for as if it's a good thing?  Maybe they think that's why the PS2 stayed on top.

[Koopa Troopa]

Yikes...

[mouse_clicker]

I wonder why Microsoft is confirming the specs so early- If Sony or nintendo want to pull what Microsoft did this generation they just have to make their specs higher than MS's, since they have more time to do so. Being secrective may have bitten Nintendo in the ass before, but this is one area where it's good not to go blabbering.

[manunited4eva22]

The thing that makes me mad about what microsoft is doing is the shared memory, and now shared cache.  There are very few ways to do something that stupid, espeically sharing cache, because it just never has worked and is very, very hard to pull off.

The reason cache is fast is because it is so close to the CPU, and well guess what if the L2 cache is going to have to support another lane to the gpu, it would probably be slower than tha video card memory, that is of course is they do decide to go with something that can meet the GPU this time.

sfad, if these are the specs then I am very dissipointed.  Gee, a stripped down r420 core, and 3x 3.5ghz powerpc970 cores. Sorry, I am just incredibly underwhelmed.  That is pretty much guarenteed to be asynchronous cores, just going to be a complete pain in the ass to work on.  Oh well, Microsoft is playing with a loaded shotgun and seems intent on shooting their foot.

[Metaphysical Spirit]

And plus, How much is this going to be?

[Bill Aurion]

I guess that depends on whether they are going with an HD or not this time around...(which was a stupid idea in the first place)

[odifiend]

It is rumored that the Revolution has a hard dirve...

[BlackNMild2k1]

It is rumored that MS is to have an addon hardrive that will mostlikey be sold as a LIVE/backwards compatibility bundle, to keep cost down and make a little more profit.  

It is also said that they will have it so the the Xenon will be able to hook up to your PC and use your already existing Harddrive.

[Metaphysical Spirit]

Sounds to me like an early jump start to have copied and pirated games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well,  you gotta remember that MS is a PC oriented company thrying to get a foothold in the livingroom.  If they can pull your computer into the living room or you back to the computer then they will be one step closer to their ultimate goal........

[Darc Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Article

While you might have read that leaked specsheet a while ago already (maybe slightly different), now the sheet has been confirmed as being mostly correct. The Xenon is claimed to sport a triple core PPC chip at 3.5 GHz (not known whether each core is clocked like that or that's all three added together) and 256MB of RAM. Microsoft stated they will up the RAM should Sony offer more than 256MB in the PS3(apparently they're going for numbers, not power). The graphics card is a 500MHz ATI and has direct access to the CPU's L2 cache. Microsoft is still going with the unified memory approach.
They claim a real maximum of 500M triangles per second and claim that it can be reached with certain shader programming.

I don't care that much, the most powerful machine still doesn't mean anything.

Yeah I already read this article. As I've said in another thread MS is really killing themselves. The X-box finally has momentum and seems to actually be more popular than PS2 at the moment. All MS is doing is killing of X-box when it is actually doing well. Shoving an inferior system out the door, and pissing of the customers that just got the X-box. Don't they realize that Nintendo has same partners? Despite there anti technology ramblings, Nintendo will have superior hardware. Sony will definately trump MS this time around. So it seems PS3 and Revolution will be battling for the strongest hardware.

Whats up with the Xenon CPU? It doesn't seem to be G5 based. It just says Power PC based. Even the G5 hasn't hit 3Ghz yet. I'm curious as to how they could launch next year with a G5 based chip at such a high clock rate. I won't even start on the lack of RAM. MS isn't gonna get by with that amount of ram. To top things off, their GPU looks quite unimpressive. Well enough of my babbling. If this holds true, its gonna be a Sony and Nintendo battle.

Darc Requiem

[Metaphysical Spirit]

So I think I'm confused here. Are they using multiple processors to reach a goal of 3.5 GHz? I also agree with Darc Requiem on the RAM. To me, RAM is a HUGE part of a computer/system and how technology is going, you will need a lot of it. Though RAM is expensive, then again what kind of RAM are they using? I Use Rambus Memory (RDRAM) and thats mad expensive for me to upgrade it, so Im still at 512 unfortantly. I also wonder how it will connect to your PC, hopefully USB or some high technology that both a Mac and PC user can use. They still have another year and technology can improve quickly. I'm sure there is still room for improvements to come, still I have my doubts about  the system.  

[manunited4eva22]

Your using RIMMs *cringes*

DDR ram is not as expensive as your RDRAM, just because people are actually supplying it, but there are a lot of variables in how much the ram will cost.

G5 is PowerPC based, or technically its Power based, and PowerPC is Power based, but oh well, same difference.  Will this core be similar to G5?  Yes, probablly so, except it probably won't have the altivac.  I doubt they are just adding up the cores to 3.5ghz, and I doubt that is the actual number, probably just what they are wanting to get to.  Honestly though, if they were just 1.16ghz, that would be a very slow computer, in fact,  3 cores at that speed would be just about useless.  3.5ghz, is their goal, though I doubt they will achieve it.

Ram type, My bet is on DDR2-800, possibly some XDR (yellowstone, ya the same thing on PS3) form.  They may go with GDDR3 1600, but thats still up in the air, but I am doubting they will.

FSB on these processors I would expect to be 1ghz, with a total theoretical bandwith of 8gb/s.  DDR-2 in dual channel can pump 12.8gb/s (again theoretical).

GDDR3 can pump 25.6gb/s in dual channel, 51.2gb/s in 256bit arrays.  That is up to what is promised by XDR, and is currently planned on being used in this generation of video cards.  However, this is going to be expensive, and a 256bit setup will require atleast a 6layer PCB, so this is going to make for an expensive motherboard if this is what they choose.

There are a lot of options available to the makers, but I would expect this system to rival a high end system today, just because of the what is known of the gpu, and when it arrives a mid range system.  

[Syl]

Something that I'm figuring shall happen.
Microsoft releases first, without backwards compability.  
Sony and Nintendo are going to be within a week of eachother roughly a year later, Nintendo's machine is going to be more affordable, probably on par/better than microsofts, but Sony is going to be ahead in the technology realm...however, its going to cost a fuckload.

Either way, I think nintendo has a damn good chance next generation to be ontop if they play things right, but i'll try to reserve judgements till next E3, thats going to be one amazingly important E3 for all of them.

Its obvious who the clear winner of the next gen consoles are though.
ATI and IBM.

[Burning Excalibur]

Nintendo only stands a good chance if they keep their damn mouths shut, unlike MS and Sony who are comparing specs before they can even bring them out. Meanwhile, Nintendo IS playing it smart, seeing the competition destroy itself, making empty promises to each other.

[couchmonkey]

I agree that Microsoft is being stupid to release this information so soon, but I think we're all beginning to make too much out of specs.  Having the "weakest" system hasn't had too much of an impact on Sony at all.  That's not to say that Microsoft will be okay after giving it's specs away, especially since one of Xbox's biggest selling points was power, but it doesn't mean certain doom either.  We could all be eating our words in a couple of years when Sony and Nintendo launch in a market where Microsoft has already sold a few million consoles and gained a lot of momentum!

[Darc Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I agree that Microsoft is being stupid to release this information so soon, but I think we're all beginning to make too much out of specs.  Having the "weakest" system hasn't had too much of an impact on Sony at all.  That's not to say that Microsoft will be okay after giving it's specs away, especially since one of Xbox's biggest selling points was power, but it doesn't mean certain doom either.  We could all be eating our words in a couple of years when Sony and Nintendo launch in a market where Microsoft has already sold a few million consoles and gained a lot of momentum!

Well I really don't think its gonna happen. I mean honestly, developers have a choice. They can either divert millions from PS2/XB/GC development for the launch of Xenon or they can continue to reap the benefits of the current generation and wait for Sony and Nintendo to launch. While backwards compatibility isn't a big deal for PS2 now. It got PS2 over the hump for the first year and half. MS is not gonna have that luxury. MS is not gonna have the bottomless bank account to buy 3rd party support this time. MS expects the Xenon to make a profit, so they will have much more restrictive budget similar to what PS3 and Revolution will have. You won't see them spend money like water.

MS is approaching the next generation as if they are the market leader and as if they set the tone. Sony sets the tone, Sony could get away with a 2005 launch. Neither MS nor Nintendo could get away with an early launch. Microsoft's best chance IMO is to launch at the same time with Sony and Nintendo. MS has a good deal of momentum right now. The X-box has a chance to continue to build this momentum which would lead to a really good launch for them. I mean lets be honest here, if things continue the way they are now. MS will pass Nintendo in worldwide sales. Unless MS is dumb enough to launch in 2005. I hope MS is that stupid. It will only benefit Nintendo. Now if Sony can do something really stupid like did with the PS2 launch.....

Darc Requiem

[manunited4eva22]

Microsoft won't have a bottomless bank account?  Are you insane?

[odifiend]

Well they will, but it won't all be for the xenon

[Darc Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Well they will, but it won't all be for the xenon

Thanks Odifiend. I should have clarified. MS isn't gonna give the Xenon the blank check that the original X-box received.

Darc Requiem

[couchmonkey]

I do think launching so early is a mistake for Microsoft, but I don't think that lower specs are going to be the one thing that kills the Xenon.   I think something like a shortage of third party games as you suggested, Darc Requiem, will have a bigger impact.

I still think the system has a chance of taking Microsoft further than the Xbox, too, but I admit that it's a big gamble.  Maybe Microsoft figures it has to gamble if it wants to become a major, profitable player in the industry.

[manunited4eva22]

Clarification or not, they will give it more than it will ever need.  They don't expect it to make a profit until very late in it's life, they still have not reached number one, and they won't back off until they do.