Author Topic: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass  (Read 45250 times)

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Offline Maverick

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2007, 01:50:09 PM »
Zelda direct sequels never mean much more than that it's the same Link immediately after the events of the previous game.  I wasn't expecting Wind Waker 2.0, just the Wind Waker Link in a new adventure.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2007, 02:39:08 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Maverick
Zelda direct sequels never mean much more than that it's the same Link immediately after the events of the previous game.  I wasn't expecting Wind Waker 2.0, just the Wind Waker Link in a new adventure.


Thats what I expected too the only thing thats very similar to WW is the same Link and Tetra is Tetra which is really Zelda and Golden if you look at my post carefully this game pushed the system GRAPHICALLY and IMPLEMENTATION control and mechanics wise and other seemingly random DS mechanics that probably we never could of thought of such as controlling a block via the touch screen, stamping a symbol from the top screen to the bottom by closing the screen, intuitive combat without any major hick ups with the game not understanding your stylus gestures.

The game has a lot of things similar or remotely similar to Wind Waker and other zelda game that keeps it traditional and yet new refreshing implementation.  
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Offline Urkel

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2007, 02:50:04 PM »
I strongly disagree with this review.

Remember when the DS was first revealed, and everybody brainstormed all the crazy possibilities you could do with the system? This is it. This is the game that finally does it. Nintendo took all those innovative ideas and made an entire game out of it.

I didn't like all the Wind Waker comparisons because the purpose of this game is the reinvent the Zelda experience, so it's no surprise if the game doesn't always adhere to what some would consider to be a "Zelda game".

I'm also suprised by all the Temple of the Ocean King hate. I mean, for a game that some believe is "too casual", that's easily the most "hardcore" dungeon in the game. It has the most open ended design of any of the dungeons in the game, and the whole purpose of the time limit is to get you to think about not only how to get through, but to get you to think about the best possible solution.

There were also a couple of factual innaccuracies:

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Why Nintendo would make the horrifying decision to make players dredge through the whole freaking dungeon multiple times is beyond me.


If this was true I could understand hating it, but there's a checkpoint that allows you to skip nearly half the dungeon. On top of that nearly every floor has some shortcuts that can be accessed with whatever new item you got since the last time you were there.

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If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die


If by "die" you mean "lose 30 seconds or so".
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2007, 02:52:37 PM »
I finally broke away from the game long enough to bring it online.

Damn, this is some fun stuff.
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Offline Mario

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2007, 03:03:10 PM »
It's like i'm reading a review of a 2007 game in 2004

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2007, 04:30:09 PM »

Offline DAaaMan64

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2007, 05:28:52 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Urkel
Quote

If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die


If by "die" you mean "lose 30 seconds or so".


And if by "usually" you mean "I usually run towards at the guard."  Then yes.  

Yes I do find this part annoying when I have to do it a couple of times.  but whatever that something this annoying in all the zelda games.  Even if it is different for each player.  I personally hated the water temple in OOT.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2007, 05:43:54 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
[inflammatory]This is the score NSMB should've got![/inflammatory]
You haven't even played the game.

EDIT: And GP, for the hate on Canvas Curse, you've just gone into freefall on my respect list
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Offline Michael8983

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2007, 06:04:48 PM »
Well, as of this moment, NWR's review has the distinction of being the harshest review of the game and well below the average score of 90% (9/10) which is only slightly below the average score of Majora's Mask (92%).

As for Canvas Curse. I actually think it's one of the best Kirby games.
It perfectly blended a new and solid control method with classic Kirby level design and gameplay.
Even if you removed Kirby and all the recognizable enemy sprites and sound effects, anyone who plays Kirby games would recognize the level design in an instant. This makes it a true Kirby game IMO.  

Offline IceCold

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2007, 06:13:17 PM »
Thank you.

CC is still in my Top 3 DS games.
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Offline Armak88

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2007, 06:52:56 PM »
I have to say, I'm a "zelda vet" and I like this game a lot so far. I'm only past the second temple, but i've done a fair bit of exploring on the high seas and seem to be easily distracted by the online multiplayer. A lot of the negative things in this review were things that I discovered and corrected in the first 15 minutes of gameplay. I hold the stylus in my right hand, so hold the DS in my left, index finger on the L button and thumb on the d-pad. If I'm walking left, I move my hand below the screen or above the screen depending on whether i'm running left and up or left and down. The Item switching and manipulation problem is a quick fix with a little help from my left hand. I need to use the boomerang? hold L and draw your path. Want to switch items? press right (i think?) on the d-pad and the list of items will apear at the bottom of the screen, from there its a quick tap and hold L and you're switched and have the item drawn. Really these solutions are fairly simple, but now that you don't have to spend time staring at the back of your hand and fiddling with items, you can enjoy the game, it's actually quite charming.

I kind of like the timed temple, makes you think. I admit that i haven't been too far in the game yet so i guess that might change, but it sounds to me like the same as when people cried about MM only giving you three days to beat the game

PS. I love the multiplayer, and I throw down the gauntlet to anyone on this forum haha!
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Offline Dasmos

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2007, 07:55:08 PM »
lol, lots of opinions being thrown around as fact here.

Personally I don't listen to reviews, but this one was a real beauty and by beauty I mean stinker. What a horrible review, I'm not talking about score I haven't played the game. It was just a large fluffed-out comparison. Take the game for its own merits not its shortcomings when compared to other console games.

The only review I can remember that was more pointless was Deg's review of Chibi Robo DS: "It's just like the first one. *Rambles on about pointless character details and things for rest of review*
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2007, 08:24:43 PM »
Time to go over this review piece by piece...

Quote

Originally posted by: NewsBot
It's like Wind Waker without all the stuff that made Wind Waker so awesome.
 <a href=/reviewArt.cfm?artid=14526>http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/reviewArt.cfm?artid=14526[/url]

 There are two kinds of Zelda fans in the world. There are those who appreciate the series for the exploration aspect. These people enjoy overturning the overworld, searching for Heart Pieces, secret holes, mini-games, and interesting characters. I include myself in this category, and we tend to think that Wind Waker is the greatest Zelda story ever told. And then there are the dungeon-crawlers, who find overworld shenanigans a tireless chore to the real meat and potatoes of the game: dungeons. These people seem to like Twilight Princess the best (yeah, I’m using modern examples). Personally, I couldn’t stand Twilight Princess for reasons I won’t go into here. Wind Waker, however, is in my Top 3. It’s my favorite video game in recent years. I still tool around with my original save file to this day, searching for that ever-out-of-reach final Heart Piece. Anyway, when I heard that Nintendo was crafting a sequel to Wind Waker on the DS, I was overjoyed. I was bouncing off the walls when my NWR colleagues recruited me to review the game. I received the game two days ago, and have been furiously playing it ever since. And I’ve got something to tell both the explorers and dungeon-crawlers among you: this ain’t the Zelda you know and love.


Seems fair to me. Sets the tone of which type of Zelda fan you are so you can offer a better perspective. I'm a Zelda DUNGEON fan, BTW.

Quote

Unfortunately, the stylus control takes some serious getting-used-to for Zelda veterans. Any kind of D-pad control scheme (even one for left handers using the ABXY buttons) is absent, and while Nintendo’s goal was to make the process more streamlined and intuitive, I never forgot that I was holding a stylus, dragging and tapping it on the screen like a monkey to make Link move. Using items is a chore, for example, because you must first tap "Items," then tap the item you want, then tap the item window, the use the item. God forbid you should have to switch items in the middle of a fight. Furthermore, because I can’t draw a straight line to save my life (with a tiny stylus, anyway), my ship and boomerang routes often look more like desperate squiggles than methodic attempts. I certainly appreciate what Nintendo is trying to do, but in practice the control scheme is a little awkward.  I must praise the amount of experimentation in Phantom Hourglass, though. You’ll be "stamping" your map by closing your DS, yelling at a shopkeeper, blowing out candles, and using the top screen to see what your enemy sees. It’s a shame that none of these unique applications are used more than once or twice, but there’s always something new to try, and Phantom Hourglass goes out of its way to demonstrate the unique gameplay possibilities afforded by the DS.


So the controls are different enough to be unsettling but the DS gimmick features are at least amusing.    

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The much-lauded (or laughed-at) Wind Waker aesthetic is in full effect for Phantom Hourglass, albeit in a low-res sort of way. The game really is in 3D, though, and it’s good-looking 3D. Characters are just as expressive as they are in Wind Waker, and the primary colors and simplistic texturing are still there. Looks aside, however, Phantom Hourglass is an entirely different game. This is both good and bad. I was worried, frankly, that Nintendo would somehow bring Ganon back into the game, even though he’d been stabbed in the head and turned to stone by Link just before the beginning of this game. And if not Ganon, we’d get Vaati, that awkward fill-in villain whose ties to the greater series continuity have always been in question. Instead, we get a brand new storyline featuring a brand new antagonist, which is a huge plus. Sadly, though, after the game’s opening sequence, there are no plotline or character ties to Wind Waker. Phantom Hourglass lacks the mythos of Wind Waker, and it can’t decide whether it wants to be an entirely separate game or not.


Troubling. I too would have preferred more continuity for the game. Personally, I spent the entirety of TP looking for references to OoT and I got excited every time I found one. Shame there wasn't more to tie this back to WW.

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Phantom Hourglass’s gameplay flow also mimics that of Twilight Princess more so than Wind Waker. This DS game is basically a dungeon crawler, and trips to other islands exist only so you can learn about where the next dungeon is. Sure, there are some token "new islands" to discover, but their contents are rarely very exciting. I greatly enjoyed the freedom offered by Wind Waker. If I wanted to, I could forego the main quest for days and explore instead, completing my map of the Great Sea, finding neat stuff on interesting islands…you get the idea. Phantom Hourglass, however, does not meet that need. Instead, island-hopping is a practical matter. The weather conditions never change, the sea never swells, and you’ll rarely see another ship anywhere. I’m sure this is due to hardware limitations, but I really miss that aspect of Wind Waker.


Exploration got the axe, but you already warned us that this is the reason you enjoy Zelda games so this one would naturally lose points in that regard. If it's nothing but dungeons, then it has my interest piqued.

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Even Twilight Princess fans, though, will be groaning in agony about the Temple of the Sea King, a horrendous chore of a dungeon which I’ll have to use some apt comparisons to illustrate. Remember how, in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, you were often asked to travel to Dark Aether? It had an acidic atmosphere that constantly drained your health, and to survive, you had to travel between safe zones, where your health would slowly go back up. But Dark Aether was never fun (until much later in the game). Well, imagine a Zelda dungeon like that, with typical dungeon puzzles. Now add invincible guards who wander the halls and have a Metal Gear Solid-like vision cone. If you’re seen by a guard, you usually die (unless you can get to a safe zone). Also, and this is the kicker, there’s a timer. Yes, a timer. When that timer runs out, your health begins to plummet. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you’ll have to traverse this dungeon several different times. In fact, each time you complete an overworld dungeon, you will have to go back to the Temple of the Ocean King and start from the very beginning, with all the puzzles reset, and a little bit more time in the hourglass (this gets a tad less severe later in the game), and go farther into the dungeon. After every overworld boss, you gain access to a new basement level, the theory being that you’ll eventually confront the game’s final boss.  The fact that you don’t get to start from where you left off is mind-boggling. Why Nintendo would make the horrifying decision to make players dredge through the whole freaking dungeon multiple times is beyond me. Is artificially lengthening the game their goal? Why not just put more islands on the map, or resort to that tired old light/dark world mechanic? I should mention here that Nintendo stripped a lot of Zelda mainstays from the game, including Heart Pieces, the dungeon compass, and wallet upgrades. These are all welcome changes (except the Heart Pieces), but the Temple of the Ocean King is beyond ridiculous.


Ouch, sounds like they threw in a god-awful time sink. Thanks for the warning.

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I guess I should mention the two-player Wi-Fi game. No, it’s not Four Swords. Instead, it’s a mini-game that mimics the Temple of the Ocean King! Need I go on? One player is Link, who tries to collect Force Gems and sneak past the other player, who is a Phantom (one of the giant invincible guards). The multiplayer does have the advantage of being single-card downloadable, but other DS games have much stronger Wi-Fi outings, chief among them Metroid Prime: Hunters and Mario Kart DS. By comparison to those meaty offerings, the multiplayer component of Phantom Hourglass seems like a tagged-on feature.


It looked rather basic from the videos I'd seen of it. Shame to hear it's lacking.

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It’s obvious that Nintendo has tailored Phantom Hourglass to a more casual, less Zelda-familiar audience. From the touch screen controls to the lack of connection with Wind Waker and the strip-mining of traditional Zelda items, you need not be a Zelda vet to enjoy Phantom Hourglass. At the same time, though, it becomes difficult to fully enjoy Phantom Hourglass if you are a Zelda vet. The lack of even an option for D-pad control tells me that Nintendo did not have their Zelda fan base in mind when they were creating Phantom Hourglass. And that’s okay, I guess. It’s still a decent game, but it’s also a game apart from the rest of the series. It just feels different, and I think it demonstrates that Nintendo is reluctant to sail into the murky waters beyond Wind Waker. The end of that game left a lot of possibilities open, but the path taken by Phantom Hourglass is, in all honesty, lame. Try not to think of Phantom Hourglass as a direct sequel to Wind Waker, and perhaps instead as a sort of pseudo-sequel, like Majora’s Mask was to Ocarina of Time. Then you might enjoy it more. Me? I am just sad to see so many great characters and gameplay mechanics left at the docks while Nintendo sailed into more casual waters.


This is indeed a shame to hear, but I fear this is the direction Nintendo has decided to take and that unfortunately includes some of its flagship franchises.

I thought this review was just fine: it gave me a good idea of whether or not I'd enjoy this game and what to expect. I honestly don't understand why people are complaining about it.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2007, 08:24:56 PM »
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The only review I can remember that was more pointless was Deg's review of Chibi Robo DS: "It's just like the first one.
Wasn't that Custom Robo?
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Offline Michael8983

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2007, 09:20:04 PM »
I think the timed dungeon and the new controls will grow on people over time.
I mean a lot of people didn't take to Majora's Mask right away with its time limit and non-traditional storyline. Then there was the Wind Waker thing that needs no explanation. Also the Wii-mote controls in Twilight Princess. All three of these Zelda games featured deviations that were unsettling at first but MOST people eventually got used to them.
There are still a few people that think Majora's Mask was an unnessesary spin-off, hate cel-shaded Link, and prefer the Gamecube version of TP. But these people are the minority as far as I can tell.

The problem with writing reviews for newly released games is that you're pressured to finish them as fast as possible to get your review out in a respectable amount of time. That can taint the experience, especially with a unique title like this. The reviewer may blast through the title so fast, not giving himself time to become comfortable with the controls and enjoy the experience. Allowing moderately frustrating moments to become intolerable. Not giving the proper time to allow whatever pre-judgments he made on the game to fade.

 

Offline Svevan

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2007, 09:24:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Michael8983
I think the timed dungeon and the new controls will grow on people over time.
I mean a lot of people didn't take to Majora's Mask right away with its time limit and non-traditional storyline. Then there was the Wind Waker thing that needs no explanation. Also the Wii-mote controls in Twilight Princess. All three of these Zelda games featured deviations that were unsettling at first but MOST people eventually got used to them.
There are still a few people that think Majora's Mask was an unnessesary spin-off, hate cel-shaded Link, and prefer the Gamecube version of TP. But these people are the minority as far as I can tell.

The problem with writing reviews for newly released games is that you're pressured to finish them as fast as possible to get your review out in a respectable amount of time. That can taint the experience, especially with a unique title like this. The reviewer may blast through the title so fast, not giving himself time to become comfortable with the controls and enjoy the experience. Allowing moderately frustrating moments to become intolerable. Not giving the proper time to allow whatever pre-judgments he made on the game to fade.

This could happen, but most of our reviews go out after a week of playing, even reviews of new games or pre-release reviews (there have been exceptions for short games or Jonny w/ Metroid). Some of our forum members can blast through a game faster than we can with a deadline. Fast playing time is never so fast we don't take necessary time to learn things.

Where I agree with you, Michael, is in the very nature of on-the-day reviews; I almost never form an opinion about a game until its over, and then it takes some time. Same too with movies; if I think a movie is great, I try to watch it twice before proclaiming it as such. I think the brain needs more time processing after the fact, and writing a review (and going through our strict editing process) can sometimes provide that necessary time.
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Offline ShanD

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2007, 12:29:28 AM »
How to change items in the heat of battle!

Right D-pad or A button
Tap item in bottom ribbon of the screen
Hold L or R
Use item!!
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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2007, 05:02:31 AM »
I want to comment on the 'time sink' dungeon.
I played through it what is technically your third time last night.  Afterwards, my cartridge got eject through stupidity and I had to go back and do it again.  However, because of the short cuts offered by items, I was able to only lose 4 minutes from the amount I had.  This is what this dungeon is designed for.  Keep doing it faster with new items and use the map!  You can take any notes, including shortcuts you THINK will be useful in the future.
So from the experience, I agree the hate towards it is like the hate of doing a dungeon in '3 days' in Majora's Mask.  If you failed, you had to do again, but now you get a map, in game, to make it faster.
In conclusion, Phantom Hourglass is Wind Waker's Majora.   Now where's my TP's Majora?
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Offline wandering

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2007, 05:08:14 AM »
Quote

In conclusion, Phantom Hourglass is Wind Waker's Majora.   Now where's my TP's Majora?

Since TP is a glorified remake of OOT, Majora is TP's Majora.
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Offline Maverick

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2007, 05:35:49 AM »
Aren't ALL main-quest Zelda games basically remakes of the original NES Zelda?  I mean, they're sequels and have different story-lines for the most part, with different game mechanics and plot devices (light-world/dark world, time travel, wind waking, transforming into a wolf...), but they're basically the re-telling of Link destroying Ganon and saving the Princess.  Even if they are different Links and Zeldas on the timeline, it's still basically the same game again and again.  Somehow they all still manage to be excellent, however.

I just don't think it's fair to pick on TP for that.    
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Offline theJKA

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2007, 07:27:54 PM »
To base the value of gameplay on one dungeon and the fact that you don't like dungeon crawling. the review was written with your dislike in mind, as you can't stop talking about it. Reviews should be about how much the average gamer would enjoy it, not your personal preferences. And as a sequel to Wind Waker, the game should stand on its own merits rather than be judged as such, as there are a variety of factors to consider (different system, less power and memory, control scheme etc). Overall this review was not very fair, biased, and not to the standards of NWR's reviews.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2007, 09:00:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: theJKA
To base the value of gameplay on one dungeon and the fact that you don't like dungeon crawling. the review was written with your dislike in mind, as you can't stop talking about it. Reviews should be about how much the average gamer would enjoy it, not your personal preferences. And as a sequel to Wind Waker, the game should stand on its own merits rather than be judged as such, as there are a variety of factors to consider (different system, less power and memory, control scheme etc). Overall this review was not very fair, biased, and not to the standards of NWR's reviews.


I love dungeon crawling, and I hated the one dungeon too, so take that! Also it is stupid to do a review on whether the average gamer will enjoy it, because that is how you get Game informer Paper Mario reviews!
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Offline Bloodworth

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2007, 09:39:43 PM »
I just got through with the third dungeon (not counting Ocean King) and I'm having a blast.

The controls are phenomenal (with the exception of rolling into trees). Drawing on maps is brilliant, and its done in a variety of ways. I am getting plenty distracted by exploring the ocean, finding ship parts, playing mini-games etc. Pulling up treasure off the ocean floor is somehow less tedious even though it's not nearly as easy to do.

The only complaint I can really agree with right now is that I don't like having to repeat floors in the main temple, but I don't have much of a problem with the phantom gameplay. They're easy enough to avoid and I haven't gotten close to running out of time.

I felt the first two dungeons were kind of light, but the third one had me scratching my head a lot, and it really doesn't feel dumbed-down or casual. Oh and the boss fight there once and for all debunks the myth that the DS can't do 3D on both screens.

To heart pieces, I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I've actually died like five times, and I only died once in all of Twilight Princess. Not sure I ever died in Wind Waker.

What I really don't understand are the complaints about a lack of memorable characters- Jolene and her "Mermaid" sister, Oshus, Linebeck, The Wayfarer's family, the hero that's dressed like Link and rides the Prince of Red Lions -I really don't see how these characters are less memorable than those in Wind Waker except for the fact that the animation and amount of vocalization is limited by the technology.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2007, 09:51:45 PM »
I was planning to save Phantom Hourglass for my vacation in two weeks (plane ride = lots of time).  With all the hubbub, though, I'm tempted to buy the game now just to see who I agree with....
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Nintendo World Report

"Only CHEATERS mess up!" -Waluigi

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RE: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2007, 10:04:43 PM »
One bad thing about being content and complacent and not needing to play a game as soon as it comes out is that I miss out on a lot of the furor about the game... I can't wait for my copy to arrive in the mail so that I can discover the truth about this game.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.