Author Topic: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS  (Read 30932 times)

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2007, 10:02:53 AM »
Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Metroid Hunters...
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2007, 11:25:34 AM »
"90% of online games are only useful for the first month or so after launch. After that, everyone has moved on to playing different games."

I'd say that depends on the game.  Games that are strictly about having an online community (MMORPGs) are very much like this but games that pretty much just offer the same experience as playing with your buddies at home only with a wider group of players has staying power because at the very least you can get people you know to play with you.  My brother plays several older PC games online with his friends even after the initial "scene" is over.

Online SSB would never die for example (at least until the next SSB came out).  Even if the huge glut of people that played it when it was new are gone I guarantee you you could find someone on this board that would play with you.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2007, 11:46:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"90% of online games are only useful for the first month or so after launch. After that, everyone has moved on to playing different games."

I'd say that depends on the game.  Games that are strictly about having an online community (MMORPGs) are very much like this but games that pretty much just offer the same experience as playing with your buddies at home only with a wider group of players has staying power because at the very least you can get people you know to play with you.  My brother plays several older PC games online with his friends even after the initial "scene" is over.


?!?!?!?!??!?!

It's the other way around I'd think. There are exceptions, but generally it'd be the other way around.

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Offline Adrock

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2007, 12:50:10 PM »
Quote

ryancoke wrote:
I think the many owners of Clubhouse games on DS would disagree with you. That's one of the most popular online games and based on the amount of DS games coming to Wii, I wouldn't doubt CHG is on the way as well.

I wasn't implying that nongamers don't play online games at all or aren't interested. Friend codes suck for everyone. I'd bet though that the system universally pisses off gamers more. And if Nintendo can't please gamers who have been playing for years, how can they hope to bring nongamers into the online gaming scene with a totally unintuitive structure? I think most of us can agree that friend codes are needlessly difficult to deal with and alienate gamers and nongamers alike which is the exact opposite result Nintendo was going for.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2007, 01:11:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Metroid Hunters...


Nobody at NWR plays those game anymore.


Offline 31 Flavas

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2007, 02:54:38 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I agree: these codes are ridiculous and unneeded, especially when T and M rated games are rated that way to keep children from playing them and therefore should serve as a means of vindicating Nintendo from liability if a kid gets lured by a pedophile.
Rationally, yes. I totally agree with you. But the reality is parents and courts and juries just don't operate that way. So pardon me if I don't mind that Nintendo covers their ass. Not that its going to help, some bible thumping lawyer will just sue them anyway.

(and the following goes to everyone that's going to bitch in this hate orgy of a thread)

You want to help the situation? you want to prevent something like Friend Codes from ever happening ever again?

Then knock some fuçking sense into parents and the idiots running this country. Hold them responsible for their contemptible and asinine behavior.

I mean it's a bit out of whack when XBL already has been used and abused by criminals, but Nintendo is the one that gets nailed in the news for Pictochat of all things...
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Offline Plugabugz

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2007, 01:12:00 AM »
Do you want to stop your child playing online games? Block the wii's MAC ID from the router. Solved.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2007, 07:16:10 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Metroid Hunters...


Nobody at NWR plays those game anymore.


Yeah, funny thing is it's THOSE [successful, Nintendo-published] games that Nintendo has used to convince themselves Friend Codes are STILL good ideas.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2007, 06:15:38 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
90% of online games are only useful for the first month or so after launch. After that, everyone has moved on to playing different games.


You honestly think that SSBB is only going to be good online for a month?
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Offline Strell

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2007, 06:38:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Plugabugz
Do you want to stop your child playing online games? Block the wii's MAC ID from the router. Solved.


True, but walk down the street and ask people what a MAC ID is at random.

See how long you go before someone threatens to punch you.
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Offline MANTI5

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2007, 07:11:53 AM »
2 hours

Also this: parental responsibility

Offline Adrock

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2007, 08:49:09 AM »
Quote

Strell wrote:
True, but walk down the street and ask people what a MAC ID is at random.

Nintendo could have included instructions on how to block the Wii's MAC ID. They could've printed them on one of those peel-off plastic stickers (like the ones put on store windows) and stuck it on the top of the console itself so no one with eyes and motor functions could possibly miss it and if they did, at least Nintendo did everything they possibly could in that situation to make sure said instructions weren't ignored.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2007, 09:51:45 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: 31 Flavas Then knock some fuçking sense into parents and the idiots running this country. Hold them responsible for their contemptible and asinine behavior.


You just asked us to eliminate every stupid parent in the world, and as much fun as it would be to do just such a thing, it's impossible.

Bad parents are tragically the constant. All Nintendo can really do is cover their ass using the rules in place.

I think the ESRB ratings should constitute this kind of protection. If the game is rated M, why have friend codes with it? Children shouldn't be playing the game to start with, just as children shouldn't be looking at porn or smoking cigarettes.

If a kid steals cigarettes from one of their parents and smokes them, it's not Marlboro's fault, it's the parent's. If it's ILLEGAL for children to have M rated games, then how can Nintendo or a 3rd party legally be blamed for what a child does with them?
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Offline MANTI5

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2007, 01:08:55 PM »
They can't any more. If you read the link I posted the internet child protection act was recently ruled unconstitutional.

Offline Strell

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2007, 02:24:03 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Quote

Strell wrote:
True, but walk down the street and ask people what a MAC ID is at random.

Nintendo could have included instructions on how to block the Wii's MAC ID. They could've printed them on one of those peel-off plastic stickers (like the ones put on store windows) and stuck it on the top of the console itself so no one with eyes and motor functions could possibly miss it and if they did, at least Nintendo did everything they possibly could in that situation to make sure said instructions weren't ignored.


Dude, you have way too much faith in humanity in general.

This is the same public who - when a child buys a used memory stick from Gamestop for his PSP that has porn on it - that screams bloody murder at Sony for being totally negligent.

Then they try to sue Sony for millions in "mental damages."

It's also the same public that likes to think things like "Instructions?  F that!  I'm a MAN, baby!  Don't need those!"

I mean, damn.  Go into Gamestop - ask the clerks there if THEY know what a MAC ID is.  Then look at all the used games - how do all these f*ckers lose the instructions AND THE INSERT for games where ALL OF THAT IS KEPT IN A PLASTIC DVD CASE?

People are idiots, pure and simple.  And they don't like taking even the slightest amount of time to learn anything new, let alone trying to set any functions on a system that they consider completely foreign to them.

I mean I see gamers annoyed at all of Nintendo's incessant warning messages for damn near everything - epilepsy, profanity during online games, using the Wiimote strap, etc etc etc.  And yet still there are hundreds - if not thousands - of idiots who STILL don't follow those warnings, and then get pissy when something undesirable happens.

If Nintendo wanted the online crap fixed, they have a few options, and unfortunately FCs are one of them.  Granted there's a dozen things wrong with them that I can point out, but to act like "well if you block the MAC ID then there's no problem" is the answer is to assume WAY too much about the general public.

31 Flavas is right on the money.  It's just that something that he's asking - to educate the public - will never happen.  Will never happen.

WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

The only way it might happen is if the current computer/gaming generation grows up and somehow manages to spread a slight amount of techie knowledge and know-how into the majority of people.  But the people who know these things - like me and others generally found in forums - are in the minority.

I must find a way to use "burninate" more in my daily speech.

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Offline Smoke39

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2007, 03:37:39 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
90% of online games are only useful for the first month or so after launch. After that, everyone has moved on to playing different games.


You honestly think that SSBB is only going to be good online for a month?

90% =/= 100%.  Assuming it's executed well, SSBB could very well be in that 10%.
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Offline Adrock

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2007, 04:57:23 PM »
I'm fully aware that the world is full of stupid people.

Look, I'm not saying that the MAC ID is the perfect solution. BUT, it is one possible solution. It's there, it exists and Nintendo should flat-out tell people about it.

The main problem with the friend code system is that the Wii number makes it pointless. I already added people I trust, so why do I need to do it again? I don't need to validate that I know so-and-so more than once. The way I see it, friend codes only protect buyers of used consoles (since friend codes are created when a specific copy of a game is inserted into a specific console) which is ultimately beyond Nintendo's control. It's not really Nintendo's problem. People might try to make it their problem. If some jackass wants to sue Nintendo for emotion distress, murder, rape, domestic violence, whatever... because friend codes weren't safe enough or some other BS reason, that jackass will sue Nintendo. Simple as that. Nothing will stop the lawsuits from happening. No one wants to take responsibility for their own stupidity so they try to displace the blame.

Friend codes aren't idiot proof. I'm not convinced they are really that much safer, at least not enough to warrant the inconvenience. I'd bet that most parents don't know who their kids are exchanging friend codes with. They only get bent out of shape when sh*t goes down. Unfortunately, friend codes won't stop morons from taking the blame off themselves and pointing their fingers at Nintendo.

Quote

Strell wrote:
I mean, damn. Go into Gamestop - ask the clerks there if THEY know what a MAC ID is. Then look at all the used games - how do all these f*ckers lose the instructions AND THE INSERT for games where ALL OF THAT IS KEPT IN A PLASTIC DVD CASE?

I don't know if you're referring to the Gamestop clerks or the previous owners of the games, but when I used to trade games to Gamestop, I'd take out the instructions and inserts so Gamestop couldn't sell them as new games. My games were in perfect condition and I knew for a fact that Gamestop not only opens their new games, but sells used games as new. Then again, we all know Gamestop is an asinine company.  

Offline Kairon

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2007, 05:26:30 PM »
There HAS to be a better way to protect the children of stupid parents.

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Offline Strell

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2007, 07:04:08 PM »
I was talking about everyone who trades games into Gamestop - there's a goddamn epidemic in that store, and I can't understand it.  And I'm willing to bet only a small fraction of gamers actually trade stuff in but remove the inserts before doing so.  The overall majority are from stupid people who can't keep their sh*t together.

The problem with your assumption that "Nintendo could tell people" is two fold.  The first is that Nintendo does tell people.  They have instruction manuals, they have ESRB warnings on their games (physically and before the game boots), they have official stuff on nintendowifi.com.  So they are already doing this.

The second problem is that it doesn't matter if Nintendo does that - no one listens anyway.  People could easily learn that there's no way a molester could derive a child's information (address, etc) from Pictochat seemingly out of nowhere, but they don't want to listen to that.  No one wants the responsibility.  It is that pure and simple.

Nintendo is seeing the world pretty much regress into retardedness at the hands of idiots by the day, and their lawyers know that there's a lot of money at stake and a lot of asses on the line, and unfortunately they are doing these actions to the best of their ability.  And even then they sit back and think "That's not enough, we've got to do more."  And so they do more but STILL that's not enough.  For outrageous hyperbolic examples, please keep reading.

You know what, Kairon?  There is a solution.  The solution would be to have the Wii boot up everytime and determine who was using it and what they were using it for.  So somehow it would have to have an automatic way of determining the user and what they ought to be allowed to see.

However, for that to work, the parents have to go in - or whoever the legal guardian is, or lack of one if the user is over 18 - and modify all the settings to say "Alright when my 12 year old son is playing, he can play Call of Duty, but my 5 year old can't."

Obviously, however, this will never happen because it would be impossible for the Wii to make that judgement, and then it still relies on the parents.

So then, the obvious extension?  Somehow test the user right then and there as to their age.  Leisure Suit Larry - an adventure game on the PC from Sierra that was playfully adult in nature, maybe about as bad as a Playboy - used to do this by quizzing the users on a variety of information it was assumed only adults would know.  Like it might ask who Richard Nixon was and such, and was designed to keep a kid from getting access to the game.  But even this has pitfalls - the Internet would allow us to share information.

So what's the next step?  Maybe take the test further - maybe it forces the family who owns the Wii to gather around on the first boot up, and it quizzes all of them on their technical know-how on general Internet use, online gaming, what Nintendo is liable for, etc etc etc.  It gets ages and what they can be exposed to.  It rates them on if they are total dumbasses or reasonably intelligent people.  Then IT - the Wii itself - makes all the decisions on what can be done.  Guess what - you turn it on and you're the father?  Well, you already proved yourself an idiot when you said an IP address was 4 digits long, so now the Wii already cut off anyone under the age of 18 from all online activity.

I mean sh*t.  Let's say the father is halfway intelligent and he knows about parental codes, so he locks them out.  How easy do you think it is to crack his password?  I remember reading a story on the net and the guy said the following: "My parents had a lock on the Playboy channel when I was younger.  My brother and I took 3 minutes to crack it.  What was the password?  4444.  I was surprised it wasn't 0000 or 1234, actually."

So even when the parents KNOW about it, THEY DO IT IN SUCH A HALF ASS WAY, that it doesn't even MATTER.  So it's got to be even MORE secure!  Maybe the Wii shuts itself off after 5 minutes of gaming PERIOD!  No questions asked!

Now, clearly, the above solutions I have proposed is pure nonsense and could never be done.  So can ANYTHING be done?  Well you could be like Apple and simplify everything, but this pisses off the PC types who want to get in immediately.  Or you could do the Vista thing and just ask an endless barrage of questions, but this is horribly annoying.  

So none of the above works.  None of it.  So the only option is to do two things - 1) make the information available and easy to access, and 2) allow control to be present in the form of restrictions.  Nintendo, unfortunately, has chosen to rely more heavily on the second as a way to save its own ass by doing things like FCs, even though they've satisfied the first about as exhaustively as they can (not to mention the endless amount of information on the 'net any damn fool could look up).

The bottom line is that THERE IS NO SOLUTION RIGHT NOW unless we could somehow FORCE people to not be idiots about EVERYTHING.  If judges threw out the cases immediately and fined the person for bringing their nonsense into the courtroom to begin with, and if everyone were responsible about what the machine was being used for, and if everyone had the technical knowledge to mask out MAC IDs, and if everyone knew what could and could not be done with Pictochat, and if everyone knew what Nintendo was and was not liable for, and about a billion other things, THEN Nintendo might pony up and have no damn reason to choose this moronic system they've decided to use.

Or, Nintendo could just bite the bullet, fess up "we think it's not profitable so we're going to baby step our way into it and hopefully piss everyone off enough such that they will not want to PLAY online anymore, and then we will call it unprofitable, and thus we'll drop all drive to have it on our system, and you f*ckers can go get a rival system to do it because we feel our first party single player games are worth the price of admission alone," and THEN ALL OF THIS BULLSH*T WOULD BE OVER.

And I don't think that's going to happen either, unfortunately.

So instead I'm just going to waste more time entering FCs, knowing the world is full of idiots that ruin MY fun because they can't get their sh*t together, and HOPEFULLY be able to kick my friend's ass with a Home Run bat.

And that is about everything I have to say on the matter on FCs.  I do believe I have covered every last base I can possibly cover.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #94 on: March 24, 2007, 07:48:21 PM »
I still think either CC#s or a license number would be a good idea: the Wii wouldn't unlock its online capabilities without it.

So either A) you the parent can't control your kid well enough to keep them from stealing your wallet or B) you the parent have to notice what your kid is doing and understand that they're using the Wii to go online.
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Offline Adrock

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #95 on: March 24, 2007, 09:43:30 PM »
Stell, take a deep breath and count to ten.

Yes, Nintendo tells people with inserts and whatnot. My suggestion was to stick it right into the console itself so the consumer is forced to actually look at it at least once. Sure, most people will peel it off and ignore it, but it's still another means for Nintendo to protect itself.

And I acknowledge that people don't want to take respsonsibility for their own actions and that's the whole point. As I said before, friend codes or not, people will sue Nintendo regardless just because it's easier to point fingers than admit to being a negligent parent. The question then arises: If lawsuits are unavoidable, why willingly choose a backwards ass online structure that annoys the majority of consumers who will not sue you?

I'd be more inclined to accept friend codes as an acceptable system if it actually proved to be safer for children. If parents aren't monitoring what their children and allowing them to do whatever they damn well please, then the friend code system just got subverted at the lowest level. Are friend codes safer? I think the verdict is out on that one.

But you know, I'll deal. I'm not going to boycott friend codes and miss out on any number of sweet ass online Wii games (though in the back of my mind, I'll always think that they're limited by Nintendo's poor choices).

I like Smash_Brother's idea. I think that's pretty reasonable.

Offline Plugabugz

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #96 on: March 24, 2007, 11:20:27 PM »
I'm going to wait until we see an online confirmed game, with a confirmed release date, beyond Pokemon.

Does anybody know if Japanese Wiis received updates prior to the release of Pokemon down there? Because it would make more sense if the parental control was updated to disable online access.

Offline Nephilim

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RE:Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #97 on: March 24, 2007, 11:41:08 PM »
Problem is only a few games are popular for nds, try playing bomberman or tony hawk :/

System doesnt work for less popular games, you can be waiting in regional play for hours without anyone one
Would be much easier, were you can see lobbys and see if anyone IS online

Offline Ceric

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #98 on: March 25, 2007, 02:33:22 AM »
So Retinal scans using the Wiimote it is.

Anyway in the case of like Bomberman and Tony hawk.  You don't need a full lobby just a number of people online to come up.
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Offline zakkiel

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RE: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS
« Reply #99 on: March 25, 2007, 04:42:02 AM »
Quote

Rationally, yes. I totally agree with you. But the reality is parents and courts and juries just don't operate that way. So pardon me if I don't mind that Nintendo covers their ass. Not that its going to help, some bible thumping lawyer will just sue them anyway.

(and the following goes to everyone that's going to bitch in this hate orgy of a thread)

You want to help the situation? you want to prevent something like Friend Codes from ever happening ever again?

Then knock some fuçking sense into parents and the idiots running this country. Hold them responsible for their contemptible and asinine behavior.
If people are still going to sue Nintendo with friend codes, they'll sue if Nintendo has friend codes for each individual game. It's terrible, goddawful, irredeemable, unimaginably stupid decision, and there are no excuses to be made for it. I'm sorry. They ****ed up, and now we have to live with the clumsiest multiplayer system in console history. So yeah, there's gonna be some hate from people who maintain some level of rationality and haven't decided Nintendo is an idol that can do no wrong.
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