Topic: Wii to feature same online structure as the DS

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Game Specific Friend *Codes* Confirmed

Well...this is where all hopes of Nintendo having decent online get flushed down the toilet.

Oh boy...

Let the bitch fest for the ages commence!

[Pittbboi]

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Let the bitch fest for the ages commence!

Why call it a bitch fest? Friend Codes are UNIVERSALLY hated. And the best thing that even the most dedicated Nintendo Fanboi can say about them is "Well, they're not THAT bad..."

Gamers hate them. Developers hate them. And what's worse is that Nintendo KNOWS this, and is basically giving all of us a big "f*ck you" and going ahead with friend codes.

It may be a "bitch fest" but Nintendo has it comin'.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi

Quote
Let the bitch fest for the ages commence!

Why call it a bitch fest? Friend Codes are UNIVERSALLY hated. And the best thing that even the most dedicated Nintendo Fanboi can say about them is "Well, they're not THAT bad..."

Gamers hate them. Developers hate them. And what's worse is that Nintendo KNOWS this, and is basically giving all of us a big "f*ck you" and going ahead with friend codes.

It may be a "bitch fest" but Nintendo has it comin'.

I didn't mean that in a bad way. I'm just recognizing that this will be a major bitch and complaint fest till either Nintendo destroys friend codes all together or offer an alternative.

I am honestly indifferent about the issue. On one hand, I agree that the system is tedious and should just offer online gaming without hoops to jump through. On the other, the system was implemented on the DS and it is still selling, and most importantly, the online games are still selling.

So I am neither "OMFG NINTENDO SUCKS!" nor "STOP BITCHING ABOUT THIS!". Just "Meh"...

[nitsu niflheim]

I'm not a online games kind of person, but this is just stoopid.  Sorry but having to take all these extra steps for each game is just pisspoor planning and design.  

So I guess the Wii system friend code is just for sending messages back and forth because obviously it's not going to be for online games if each game will have their own codes and rosters.

Oh Nintendo, when you want to be stupid, you really go all out for it.

[Smash_Brother]

I agree: these codes are ridiculous and unneeded, especially when T and M rated games are rated that way to keep children from playing them and therefore should serve as a means of vindicating Nintendo from liability if a kid gets lured by a pedophile.

It's going to be a royal pain in the ass to type and retype every friend code for EVERY person I want to play online with, hence why this system sucks. The Wii tries to be the system for everyone and yet it relegates its online experience to being one for children.

I at least hope that M rated games online won't need codes. There's no way in hell a kid should be playing that game in the first place.

[NWR_pap64]

After reading through the Nintendo rep statement I started to wonder; Could this be an un-official statement?

Yeah, it comes from a Nintendo rep, but from the sounds of things the people e-mail Nintendo through their Online help service feature. As well all know, they tend to be automatic and vague responses. So who's to say that this is a help representative guessing that the Wii will use the system as the DS?

If anything, Nintendo would confirm this sort of thing through a major press release of official announcement, not through their help service.

I'm not holding my breath, though, since the answer IS the type of thing Nintendo would do. But its weird that they confirm this through the help service. Plus, they didn't contact someone in the higher ups for the answers.

[Kairon]

With the Wii outselling both the XBox 360 and PS3 despite having ZERO ONLINE GAMES right now, the market effect of this may be questionable...

But I'm also of the opinion that the friend code system is very prohibitive, and I actually don't expect a lot of people to use it under its current implementation. It's a double lock system, and nongamers don't have the patience to deal with complex interfaces and multiple steps in order to get to gameplay. Friend codes are NOT non-gamer friendly, they're NOT pick up and play.

They have appeal to parents and non-gamers who don't know what they're getting into, so friend codes are useful as a selling point to the mass-market . PS3 and XBox 360's unhindered online environment (swearing in X360's FPS games, porn in home) versus Nintendo's 100% safe online environment? No self-respecting non-researching gamer-fearing non-gamer would choose a PS3 or X360!!!.

But I'm pretty confident that like my Animal Crossing experience, there'll just be too many hoops to jump through for casual gamers, nongamers, and even some hardcores to just not bother once they find out how the system really works.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

You bring up a good point there, Kairon.

For a system that Nintendo wants to be as user friendly as possible, they sure love to implement tedious online features!

[Pittbboi]

Pap: I'm not surprised at the way this news was released. I doubt Nintendo wanted to unveil this at a press release, it would overshadow anything else they had to say.

This way, it only sneaks out onto the internet, and fanboys have a small bit of leverage with which to speculate Nintendo out of deep sh*t.

Kairon: But by appealing to the non-gamers (who, if they REALLY did their research, would know that Xbox360 and PS3's online systems were infinitely more compelling), Nintendo is once again casting away the opinions of the gamer. Basically, the only people the Friend Code system could possibly appeal to are the people of Stepford:

"OMG--Swearing in a video game?? Oh dear, I can't have that! I'm writing to my congressman!"

"Well, you know, you can just block those particular players, and turn on parental settings, and there were adequate warnings before and after you bought the game..."

"Oh--well still! Nobody's thinking of the children!!"

"...But, isn't that the point of pare--"

"NOBODY'S THINKING OF THE CHILDREN!"

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Pap: I'm not surprised at the way this news was released. I doubt Nintendo wanted to unveil this at a press release, it would overshadow anything else they had to say.

Yeah, you're right. The Wii WAS revealed a month before E3 since they knew people would bitch about it like crazy and would overshadow the games.

But still, if they wanted to unveil it BEFORE the E3 show, they could've just made a quick press release alongside Gamespy.

[Smash_Brother]

The real reason this is a hinderance is because developers won't like it, either.

If Nintendo continues to spurn online gaming, there may come a time where online and offline gaming become synonymous with 360 and Wii respectively and it's my firm belief that Nintendo should do whatever they can to avoid a situation like that (as with what happened last gen with M games).

The PS2 won because it was the system for everything, including some online gaming. The Wii would do well to not have anything on its roster which just cried out "No, we don't do that."

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Kairon: But by appealing to the non-gamers (who, if they REALLY did their research, would know that Xbox360 and PS3's online systems were infinitely more compelling), Nintendo is once again casting away the opinions of the gamer.

That's not a problem for me, proud owner of Cooking Mama and soon-to-be-owner of Godfather. I don't see non-gamers as anathema to everything I cherish and hold dear.

BUT, the BIGGER problem is that Nintendo is FAILING to give non-gamers what they SHOULD BE GETTING IN A CASUAL ONLINE EXPERIENCE, so EVEN IN THAT REGARDS they are failing at this online thing. Online casual games have INFINITELY SMOOTHER connectivity, matchmaking, friendsmaking and chatting options. The only one Nintendo is appealing to here is the person who compares features on the box and doesn't play the game, because I believe that friend codes are MUCH too difficult for most people to deal with... Nintendo's online play future will be consisted of a small minority who put up with friend codes and a relative who simply match-make with strangers and NEVER TALK TO EACH OTHER... and this will be a small audience overall.

This system is BAD for NONGAMERS AND GAMERS ALIKE.

*ahem*

Indeed.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The real reason this is a hinderance is because developers won't like it, either.

If Nintendo continues to spurn online gaming, there may come a time where online and offline gaming become synonymous with 360 and Wii respectively and it's my firm belief that Nintendo should do whatever they can to avoid a situation like that (as with what happened last gen with M games).

The PS2 won because it was the system for everything, including some online gaming. The Wii would do well to not have anything on its roster which just cried out "No, we don't do that."

Yeah, developers not liking the system concerns me the most. Square already mentioned that some of their online ideas wouldn't work because of friend codes.

Wasn't it mentioned that in order to bypass the friend code system is for the third party to supply their own online system? Like a Nintendo game requires the code, while the third party one works without it.

[Smash_Brother]

That would be great.

If 3rd parties just accepted responsibility for their actions online then Nintendo would have no reason to use friend codes with their software.

[Adrock]

This sucks, but not at all surprising.

Personally, I see this as primarily a gamer's issue. Online gaming isn't really meant for nongamers, at least not yet. Certainly, it's not helping things along. Nintendo is still trying to keep those people coming back so getting them to game online seems long-term to me. And I think more than a minority of Wii owners will go online with albeit begrudgingly so. Friend codes suck but how many Super Smash Bros. Brawl players with broadband internet will be able to resist to urge to play online? My guess is not many. People won't stop using friend codes because the system is unnecessarily clumsy, but they sure as hell won't stop complaining about it until Nintendo realizes that NO ONE besides Nintendo thinks friend codes are a good idea.

[Smash_Brother]

I need to look up the reasons why pedophiles luring children over XBL didn't explode into a media frenzy. I know it has happened once or twice.

[Blue Plant]

Is this a(nother) case of NCL getting it's way over NOA?  I just can't imagine after all the noise made over the annoyance of friend codes on the DS that NOA would, without fuss, agree to bring that over to the Wii.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
That would be great.

If 3rd parties just accepted responsibility for their actions online then Nintendo would have no reason to use friend codes with their software.

I think that's how it was handled on the PS2. The console never had an online system and that's how Sony made online gaming free; they allowed the third parties to do their own thing (ie, if the third parties want to charge for their services its THEIR call, not Sony's).

And Bluplant, remember that this is Nintendo we are talking about. They tend to follow their own thing ROYALLY. If that were the case, the Wii would've been changed back to the Revolution because of the crap fest that happened last year.

[Adrock]

I bet NOA tried, but it's not their call. I don't expect Reggie to admit that the friend code system sucks even if he believes it. He's going to have to bend over and take it in the ol' brown eye from NCL like the rest of Nintendo of America does.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

YUP, THIS IS ALL PERRIN'S FAULT

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
YUP, THIS IS ALL PERRIN'S FAULT

Seconded.

[ryancoke]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Online gaming isn't really meant for nongamers, at least not yet.

I think the many owners of Clubhouse games on DS would disagree with you. That's one of the most popular online games and based on the amount of DS games coming to Wii, I wouldn't doubt CHG is on the way as well.  

[Ian Sane]

I think the whole thing is Nintendo over-compensating for non-gamers.  They feel that to truly be for everyone they need an environment that is safe for kids but the end result is so user-unfriendly that it will probably turn off non-gamers.  So you get something that nobody likes.  Hardcore gamers would be the only ones willing to put in the effort required for this method but are not ignorant of the better setup that MS has.  The system requires the ignorance of a casual gamer combined with the know-how of a hardcore gamer.  You have to be smart enough to use the setup but not smart enough to notice how sh!tty it is.

This sort of "we'll do it stupidly just because" stuff is always going to limit Nintendo.  Even if they regain the top spot they'll always be one bone-headed decision away from flushing it all away.  They need to get much better at not screwing up obvious stuff or they'll have to fluke out and get by on being less bad than the competition.  The company that picked cartridges over CDs has never really learned their lesson.  If they want to hang on to being market leader this time they HAVE to consistently spot the screw ups from a mile away.

They should never put themselves in a situation if they can avoid it where in a cross-console comparison they show up last in any categories.  Someone has to be last but if it happens it should be out of your control.  Last gen the Cube was frequently last in many categories and it often stuff Nintendo was in complete control of.  In some cases the competition had shown their hand first and Nintendo merely had to react to it (ie: you shouldn't have the smallest memory cards when Sony has already released their memory cards a year before and thus given you a minimum amount of storage you have to match).  Nintendo is setting themselves up to be last in the "online setup" category entirely because of a setup they chose and have complete control over.  It isn't like Nintendo released a good online setup and then the competition released better ones later.  Nintendo is choosing to rank lower in the "online setup" comparison to the Xbox 360 (and they even have free online which can help balance out a lack of features).  That sort of thing should never happen.  They should only be losing out due to stuff beyond their control.  That's the difference between being a f*ck-up and just being unlucky.

[Kairon]

Well, you don't need friend codes to play a game where you don't need to communicate with your fellow players at all.

Friend codes hurts these games and sub-genres:

-co-operative or team-based FPS games (Call of Duty III)
-cooperative or team-based RTS games (BWii)
-MMORPGS
-online cooperative actiopn games (i.e. Gauntlet, or similar titles)
-MMO Animal Crossings or Harvest Moon games
-video-exchanging music games (like Singstar)
and more

Any game where you need to communicate with other players, interact with them, develop relationships with them, is hindered by friend codes.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[ShyGuy]

90% of online games are only useful for the first month or so after launch. After that, everyone has moved on to playing different games.