Topic: PSP vs. DS ... Final Verdict (G4)

[Ian Sane]

Today on the local news they were talking about the PSP.  Initally I was afraid it was going to be the usual mainstream media routine with all sort of factual errors but it was all accurate.  Plus they actually mentioned that the PSP already has competition from "Nintendo's new portable the DS", the N-Gage, and cell phones with game playing abilities.  Then later on the radio today I heard the DJ say the PSP plays CDs.  *Sigh*

The PSP has a buzz going.  A lot of people who don't follow games know it launches today.  It reminds of the PS2 launch in that sense.  The DS didn't have a buzz going at launch.  The Gamecube didn't.  The PS2 and Xbox did.  I think that's Nintendo's biggest hurdle.  Everyone knows about the PLAYSTATION Portable.  The DS doesn't have that (particularly since it has no GAMEBOY in the title).  People shouldn't have to rely on watching TV at the right time to catch ads or following game news to know about a system.  They should just KNOW.  Sony has always been very good at people just knowing about the Playstation brand.

I glanced at GameRankings and the PSP now has enough reviews that games are showing up in the rankings.  The DS currently has two games with an average of over 80%.  The PSP has FIVE, two of which have over 90%, and the thing just launched.  The DS has been out for several months and doesn't even have one game with over 90%.  Sure reviews aren't fact but looking at that the PSP after being released for only one day has over twice the amount of "good" games the DS has and the PSP games are better.  You can bring up bias all you want but reviews can affect purchases.  If these were launching on the same day I could justify that difference and I can deal with the PSP having a higher scoring game than the entire DS library.  But it's inexcusable for Nintendo to have that sort of head start and still not be on par with the PSP's launch.  The PS2 didn't have a good launch but I imagine at this point it had more than only two games with over 80%.  The Cube had more games with over 80% at this point and it's launch was considered disappointing.

[RickPowers]

I think you've nailed it, Ian.  We _know_ that the DS is a great device, with tremendous potential.  However, if asked, we can't really _prove_ that, because the software isn't there yet, the wireless isn't fully there yet ... it's like the DS was only half launched.  The PSP has come out of the gate strong, the software quality is there to back it up, and everything that the PSP is exciting of is there, ready to be shown off.  All the stuff we're really excited about with the DS doesn't exist yet.  Both systems have additional future potential, but using the launch of each as a snapshot, I have to say that the PSP is coming out of the gate in a stronger position than the DS.

That's all I've been trying to say all this time, and poorly, I suppose.  Nintendo makes devices with a lot of potential, but rarely capitalizes on them (see the unused expansion ports on their home consoles).  I just want to see the DS live up to its potential, that's all, and first and foremost, that means getting some impressive games into the channel!

Something else I've noticed about the PSP ... there are two metal contacts underneath the 5V charging port, contacts that aren't used when you're using the included charger.  People are speculating that a Dock could be a future option, I wonder ...

[Pale]

Admittedly I don't follow the PSP much, hence all the questions here... But whats the story on a possible web browser/email/instant messaging system in it?  Obviously it doesn't have a touch screen so some of these things would be tough.  Regardless, I think that is where the DS can really set itself apart...  Make it a gaming and internet handheld and people would eat it up.  They better annouce it soon though or it won't have a chance.  

[RickPowers]

"But whats the story on a possible web browser/email/instant messaging system in it?"

Funny you mention that.  Sony accidentally posted a firmware update to it's Japanese site a while back (I say accidentally because it apparently fried a few PSP units).  A few industrious individuals managed to download and tear apart the firmware upgrade, and there were some very interesting things in it.  "But most excitingly, the full contents of the update include web browsing software, e-mail, word processing, voice communication, scheduling, a text-to-speech application, a program that'd let you download and organise music with Sony's own SonicStage software, and three mysterious titles which could be new online games."

That's not to say any of those things will ever be available in the future, but there is certainly the possibility.  There is a keyboard addon for the PSP that hangs off of two holes in the bottom of the unit, and folds up over the top of the screen, so those sorts of capabilities are certainly possible.  I don't know how much of this would have to run off of a Memory Stick, how much would have to be a purchased option (which the firmware just makes possible, not actually supplying the software), and how much could actually be included in the firmware itself.  Then again, the DS could do those things too, Nintendo just needs to realize that there is a market for it, and make it happen.

Like I said, both devices have a lot of future potential.  Then again, we've heard that before from both camps.  I've got a PS2 hard drive that has got to be the most disappointing $100 I've ever spent.  

[Savior]

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It reminds of the PS2 launch in that sense

As a Nintendo fan i admire Sony for this. Its partially due to the Midnight sales, and due to the Sony hype machine, but on CNN ive seen them talk about the PSP too many times today. Something i dont recall about the DS or the Gamecube.


Im hoping with the Revolution Nintendo has a Massive Midnight Sales program to get the Hype Machine Rolling along. Nintendo could learn alot from Sony.  

[Pale]

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Originally posted by: RickPowers
Like I said, both devices have a lot of future potential.  Then again, we've heard that before from both camps.  I've got a PS2 hard drive that has got to be the most disappointing $100 I've ever spent.  

So I take it you don't play FF anymore?  Log back on.. I'm on the Titan server!

[Noble~Feather]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
blah blah blah... The PSP has a buzz going.  A lot of people who don't follow games know it launches today.  It reminds of the PS2 launch in that sense.  The DS didn't have a buzz going at launch.  The Gamecube didn't.  The PS2 and Xbox did.  I think that's Nintendo's biggest hurdle.  Everyone knows about the PLAYSTATION Portable.  The DS doesn't have that... blah blah blah...

Uh, sorry dude, but people did know when the DS was out. Otherwise it wouldn't have sold so well on the very first day. I went to go buy a DS in the afternoon on the first day. But I was out of luck. Every single store in my town was sold out of DS's.

That, sir, is "buzz".

[Bloodworth]

Yeah, I remember quite a few stories in the news about the DS.  Unfortunately, the press completely negated Nintendo's more adult-oriented marketing because most of the stories were about parents that couldn't find a DS for their kids.

[huskyla24]

PSP was still available at my Target this evening around 9pm. Also, a buddy of mine at EB games said they didn't sell out. They were actually slower than they thought. He even said some people cancelled there pre-orders cause the price and heard bad things. DS was a sell out when it came out. You could not find it till mid-january. Not sure this will be the case with the PSP.

[KDR_11k]

Rick: The PSP uses a Li-Ion battery, they have no memory effect and in fact it can damage the battery if you let it run completely dry. So charge it often. Not too often, of course, that'll hurt the battery but never store it away at full or empty charge, either. And remember these things discharge 15%/month, if they fall below zero any further discharge damages the capacity of the battery.


EDIT: After reading this (towards the bottom of the page) I'm convinced that we'll see Ian complain about the PSP as well. All in all GSI says the dpad of the PSP isn't so hot for fighting games and considering how much Ian complained about the Cube's dpad...
Why did none of the PSP coverage mention that and you have to look at the review of a niche game to find out? If the DS had such a problem we'd have heard it repeated ten times by now!

[Ian Sane]

"GSI says the dpad of the PSP isn't so hot for fighting games and considering how much Ian complained about the Cube's dpad"

Actually I'm pretty sure I complained about the d-pad early on when the PSP was first shown.  I HATE Sony's method of using a split d-pad.  It's blister city.  I've complained plenty about PSP hardware problems in the past like the stupid square button thing but the game lineup is better and that's what matters.  In terms of just hardware I think the DS is great except for the lack of an analog stick though that's only a problem because of ports designed for the N64 and shouldn't affect DS exclusive titles.

I don't really like the PSP I'm just annoyed that so far Sony has done a better job than Nintendo despite Nintendo's head start and YEARS of portable experience.  Don't think of it as "boy the PSP kicks ass", think of it as "man I can't believe the DS has been so lame so far".

[KDR_11k]

The PSP's d-pad is apparently worse than the PS2's, mostly because it's less responsible.

Also, the PSP's library is larger because these titles can be made cheaply from existing PS2 games. DS games have to go through the fll dev cycle so you'll see less multiplatform games for it and the games take a bit longer to develop (well, not exactly, DS games are easier to make from scratch but the PSP games could have been meant for the PS2 before the PSP SDK came out). Since there's a very low chance that any games meant for the DS get redirected (e.g. moved to the PS2) as there's no comparable system out there there are tons of games yet to come that will come no matter how the next few months play out. if the PSP fails expectations, its games move to the PS2 but if the DS fails then where should those games go? The only options are the circular filing cabinet or the market.

Another point is that while the DS makes a huge step towards better FPS controls for consoles, the PSP is a step backwards as it can't do dual-analog and would have to use a GE-style layout but with less buttons. I think that's a point where the DS has an immediate advantage and might appeal to people who usually play only PC FPSs.

[Mario]

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I don't really like the PSP I'm just annoyed that so far Sony has done a better job than Nintendo despite Nintendo's head start and YEARS of portable experience.

Yeah right.. except the Nintendo DS launch was way more successful than the PSP launch (in Japan, and i'm hearing reports around the internet that the PSP launch wasn't so spectacular numbers wise in the US too), the Nintendo DS has two games worth buying the system for (Super Mario 64 DS, Wario Ware Touched), the PSP has nothing worth $300.

DS isn't lame, you are.

[boggy b]

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Originally posted by: Mario

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I don't really like the PSP I'm just annoyed that so far Sony has done a better job than Nintendo despite Nintendo's head start and YEARS of portable experience.

Yeah right.. except the Nintendo DS launch was way more successful than the PSP launch (in Japan, and i'm hearing reports around the internet that the PSP launch wasn't so spectacular numbers wise in the US too), the Nintendo DS has two games worth buying the system for (Super Mario 64 DS, Wario Ware Touched), the PSP has nothing worth $300.

DS isn't lame, you are.

Super Mario 64 DS worth buying a system for? Yeah, I suppose if you ignore the horrific controls, tiny screen and fact that you've basically played the game in a much much better form 8 years ago.

No games worth buying a PSP for? I'll draw your attention to this little quote then:

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Origninally posted by: Tycho@PA
Lumines belongs with every PSP purchase, but if you read gaming news at all you've seen the nearly universal worship. Today's comic is an exaggeration, of course - anyone who has played Lumines will tell you that it renders you incapable of speech.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/
Add to that WipeOut Pure, Ridge Racers, Untold Legends, THUG2 Remix, Twisted Metal etc. etc. and as a system it's ALREADY got a very very strong launch. (Don't believe me? Compare scores on GameRankings.com.)

[darknight06]

"The PSP's d-pad is apparently worse than the PS2's, mostly because it's less responsible."

I've actually had to TRY doing a dragon punch on this thing as opposed to even the original GBA where it came out without a hitch.  That thing felt stiff as heck and did not respond to diagonals well at all during a couple of VS matches.  Even if they let you use the analog nub for this game, it would still be crap.  That would make the L button nearly inaccessible.

[Mario]

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Super Mario 64 DS worth buying a system for? Yeah, I suppose if you ignore the horrific controls, tiny screen and fact that you've basically played the game in a much much better form 8 years ago.

Yeah, the main game is a bit worse than it was on N64, but i've actually spent more time with the mini games than the main game.

Yes, Lumines is good, and if I had a PSP, i'd buy that first, but it's not worth $300 in my eyes, i'd buy it if it was on PS2 though.

[boggy b]

A 'bit' worse? That's a bit of an understatement. If Mario 64 were only a 'bit' better than 64DS, it would be remembered as the worst Mario game ever made. The minigames are worth paying $150 for? Not likely.

[Artimus]

Mario 64 for the DS is a fantastic game. It's superior to SMB2 and Super Mario Sunshine. The tiny screen doesn't affect gameplay at all. If there had been no Mario 64 originally it would've been a killer ap. It's better than a lot of the PS2 to Gamecube ports we see! (in the porting category)

[The Omen]

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1. It'll kill the ds if this is true. People will stop buying and developers will stop producing.

What would Nintendo care?  If the DS holds the fort until the next GB is released, it will have done its job.  And then the new GB will be backwards compatible with the DS.

I for one have always believed that Nintendo didn't trust Sony were really going to enter the market, and when they finally believed , they had to rush a system out to compete against it.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new GB in early 2006

[Savior]

Also, the PSP's library is larger because these titles can be made cheaply from existing PS2 games


DS games can be made cheaply from N64 Games... see Mario, Ridge Racer, Rayman

[Deguello]

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If Mario 64 were only a 'bit' better than 64DS, it would be remembered as the worst Mario game ever made.

Could you please, for the English-proficient, explain exactly what is meant by this?

[Chode2234]

Whoa. wait a minute everyone!!  Step outside of the "Nintendo is great but doomed to fail" mentality and actually look around at what people are saying about the DS.  Sure there is buzz, but just take a look at slashdot's article and the comments about how the US launch is "lukewarm."

http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/03/26/2313238.shtml?tid=212&tid=207

I think a lot of people are in the same boat I am in.  I am interested in both, discouaged by the huge price of the PSP, but see no compelling reason to own both.  Either company will have to show me a reason to get it, and I mean a real reason and not "its 1996 all over again."  The first one to do that will get my money.  I usually bitch about ports, but I would kill for a goldeneye DS release (I wouldn't even want to use the stylus) a couple new maps etc.  They would sell like hotcakes.

But at the end of the day the PSP isn't all its cracked up to be, and people are weary of Sony and the UMD lock in, etc.  

[allcaps]

In my opinion, these two systems are obviously targeted at different segments of the market, but neither of them are going directly at the crowd that once owned (or still owns) GBAs. Whereas the GBA appealed to gamers looking to satisfy an old school, 2D fix, these systems are going in entirely different directions.

The DS seems aimed at people looking for something different from their games, and perhaps with them, those who typically haven't paid attention to games. The stylus, for these people, makes games more accessible.

The PSP is employing Sony's strategy from the original Playstation of making portable gaming cool for the twenty something crowd, and the Playstation 2's strategy (that never really panned out) of media convergence.

As it stands now, I like the PSP's features and library a lot more. I got one launch day and have been enjoying Lumines and Wipeout Pure since. The price they are asking is pretty high, but with its media capabilities and terrific launch titles (one of the best launches I've seen in terms of across the board quality) I really think its worth it.

Hopefully the DS won't be just a hold over until a new Game Boy is released to battle it out with the PSP. I think this would really alienate the average consumer (a la the 32X/ Saturn fiasco). I'd really like to see Nintendo innovate and make the DS something special.  

[KDR_11k]

Deg: I think he wanted to say he thinks 64DS is a game on par with E.T. or Dangerous Vaults (and if you still don't get it...).

How does SM64DS stack up if you never had an N64?

[Bloodworth]

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I for one have always believed that Nintendo didn't trust Sony were really going to enter the market, and when they finally believed , they had to rush a system out to compete against it.

I do think that the DS was rushed out to beat Sony to market, but Nintendo was already working on DS before Sony first announced PSP two years ago.  If it weren't for the PSP, I think Nintendo may have waited until this summer or fall, and perhaps Mario 64 DS would have never been more than an E3 demo.