Topic: The presidents in a war of words.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think it is quite unfair to compare something like Zelda: WW with RE4, they have two drastically different graphical schemes. Zelda is more expansive with more on the screen, while RE4 is more condensed in comparison. It is like comparing something like Fight Night Round 2 with RE4, if you took the detail of the models FNR2 beats RE4 easily, but that is only because the game is more condensed and thus can use more detailed graphical models. Personally I am more impressed with Zelda: TP than RE4 since it appears Zelda is going to do alot more with the graphics than RE4 did since Zelda has always been about exploration.

[slacker]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I think it is quite unfair to compare something like Zelda: WW with RE4, they have two drastically different graphical schemes. Zelda is more expansive with more on the screen, while RE4 is more condensed in comparison. It is like comparing something like Fight Night Round 2 with RE4, if you took the detail of the models FNR2 beats RE4 easily, but that is only because the game is more condensed and thus can use more detailed graphical models. Personally I am more impressed with Zelda: TP than RE4 since it appears Zelda is going to do alot more with the graphics than RE4 did since Zelda has always been about exploration.

I definitely agree that its unfair to compare Zelda: WW to RE4 due the the diverging graphical style.  One is intentionally aiming to look like a cartoon of sort and the other is aiming for more of a realistic look.  My point was that the casual gamers look at the two games and in his/her mind think RE4 requires a lot of horse power.  Its perception.  We can take a poll and have uninformed casual gamers make the call.  My bet is that the majority will prefer RE4's graphics over Zelda: WW.  Its one of the reason the new Zelda is the way it is.  

[jasonditz]

The only thng is, how many people simultaneously really care which requires more horse power and are ignorant enough of the process to jump to those kinds of conclusions?  

[SgtShiversBen]

I don't mean to post the whole article, but the website doesn't seem to load for me anymore  Sorry if it's breaking the rules, but this really pisses me off:

Impress PC Watch: The PlayStation 3 has some extremely high specifications, but it doesn't come with a HDD. Why?

Ken Kutaragi: We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default, because no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough. The next step is definitely network drives. With the Cell server, they can be accessed from anywhere, via network. Whether it's your own house, your friend's house, you can access the [network hard drive] anywhere. That's the kind of world we're imagining. But there are still some issues if the machine doesn't come with a HDD. So this time, we've added a 2.5 inch HDD bay so that users can equip HDDs such as 80GB and 120GB, even though that's still not enough [capacity]. Although a network drive would allow for terabytes of storage, there's still the necessity to run an operating system offline. A hard drive for running an OS will be required for [the PS3] to be recognized as a computer.

IPCW: Do you mean to say that you'll run an OS on the PS3 to use it as a computer?

KK: I believe its wrong that, while we've been calling PlayStations "computers," Nintendo, which is in our same business, keeps telling the world their consoles are "toys." So even though we're making something that has the capability to be recognized as a supercomputer and requires paperwork when exporting or importing, the government sees it as a "toy." The PlayStation 2 has something as great as the Emotion Engine, and it can even run Linux, but it's still considered a gaming machine. I thought that the situation would become better since Microsoft appeared [in the gaming industry] from the IT field. But they won't say it either, since they want to protect their business. They see problems if the Xbox could run Windows, so they keep calling the Xbox a "game machine." It is really a pain in the neck. This time, we're positioning the PS3 as a "supercomputer." But people won't recognize it as a computer unless we call it a computer, so we're going to run an OS on it. In fact, the Cell can run multiple OSes. In order to run the OSes, we need a HDD. So in order to declare that the PS3 is a computer, I think we'll have [the PS3's HDD] pre-installed with Linux as a bonus.

IPCW: So Linux can be run on the Cell.

KK: Linux is legacy, but it will be a start. In the case of the Cell, operation systems are applications. The kernel will be running on the Cell, and multiple OSes will be running on top of that as applications. Of course the PS3 can run Linux. If Linux can run, so can Lindows. Other PC Operating Systems can run too, such as Windows and Tiger (Max OS X 10.4), if the publishers want to do so. Maybe a new OS might come out.

IPCW: Does that mean that we can expect applications that take advantage of the Cell, aside from games?

KK: As an example, HD video editing software is basically the same as the non-linear editing system used in broadcasting stations. What we're trying to do on the PS3 is that level of software. Non-linear editing systems are incredible, but if it was done on the Cell, it would be even more incredible....The difference will be obvious. I think other PC applications like photo-retouching software will also be able to be done on the PS3. The user interface will also get interesting. In the case of the PC, users will have to wait for years between XP's UI to Longhorn's. But the PS3's UI will evolve much faster. For example, if we had an interface where we could control applications using gestures and words using the Eye Toy, it would be like Minority Report. Of course, that kind of an evolution will also reflect on games. This will be the first form that [the Cell] will be spread. It can connect a keyboard, and it has all the necessary interfaces. It can run media, and it can run on a network. It's got such an all-around purpose, and it's open. It will become completely open if we equip it with Linux, and programmers will be able to do anything with it. It's the same thing with the graphics since it's got the shaders.

Sony is REALLY effin full of themselves aren't they?

Edit:  This is from PC Watch as you can tell.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

``Nintendo, which is in our same business, keeps telling the world their consoles are "toys." "

-- You're the one calling them "toys," you arse.


``the government sees it as a "toy." "

-- You haven't done anything to make the PS2 seem more than a neat Christmas gift for kids (ages 3-80).  Arse.


``and it can even run Linux, but it's still considered a gaming machine. "

-- And people buy it for what else...?  Oh, I see, thanks, arse.


``The PlayStation 2 has something as great as the Emotion Engine, "

-- AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH whatever, arse.

[KnowsNothing]

Yeah, Ken has gone from WTF to HAY >=O to .  The guy is really an idiot, I don't think I need to say any more.  I honestly think that the PS3 will flop (comparitivley to their previous gens it'll be a disaster), it'll probably be pretty even all around the console market.  Not even the PS name will help it all that much, since Sony's pretty clear on their "**** the gamers" stance.

And what the hell, a 120 GB HDD isn't enough?  I cannot think of a reason why this is not enough, unless you download the actual games, which would be incredibly stupid since the games would be huge and would take forever to download.  Same with the network drive, wouldn't it take a broadband connection to realistically use such a thing?  

[Famicom]

You know, the PS3 reel had me excited to see some games that you don't (or haven't, yet) get on a Nintendo console, so I was kinda wanting to get one. Kutaragi's comments though have pretty much drove my opinion the opposite direction. There's waaay too much BS sprouting forth about this thing, and I'm thinking I don't want to be apart of this.

Looks like once again Ninty's console will be my one and only, unless the 360 can actually prove it's next-gen worthy over the next year.

[jasonditz]

Yeah, I'd look for a port of Tiger for the Ps3 real soon. What a moron.

[Grant10k]

Quote
I believe its wrong that, while we've been calling PlayStations "computers," Nintendo, which is in our same business, keeps telling the world their consoles are "toys."

I used to hate sony, now I LOATH them.
THEY are the ones who released the eye TOY

Quote
Of course, that kind of an evolution will also reflect on games. This will be the first form that [the Cell] will be spread. It can connect a keyboard, and it has all the necessary interfaces. It can run media, and it can run on a network. It's got such an all-around purpose, and it's open. It will become completely open if we equip it with Linux, and programmers will be able to do anything with it. It's the same thing with the graphics since it's got the shaders.

Congradulations, you've created a PC. Better tell the Sony Vaio engineers about this, I hear they are doing something similar. To bad Sony, I've already got a PS3 apparently, I call it a modded Xbox.  

[Robotor]

Wow 120 gig harddrives arent enough?

PS3 needs to go on a diet, eating up so many gigs.

[KDR_11k]

So they've let Kenny out of the straightjacket again?

120GB aren't enough. 2.5" isn't enough. Give us 3.5" and I'll slap a 500GB in there! But then again I'd rather slap it into my computer, it needs that. Both drives are full. That's 240 GB. If you're a real geek you can fill ANYTHING. Hell, roughly 100GB are just downloads.

So they're worried about having to pay duties on games machines? Well, your f#cking fault if you call it a PLAYSTATION computer ENTERTAINMENT system. If you decide to use the standard console business model. If you decide to release a new revision of your hardware that won't even run the freaking OS you're calling the reason it's a computer. You know what? A f#cking Gameboy runs Linux. ANYTHING with more than two transistors does. what do you want? That everyone calls their systems PCs? Thanks, I'll be happy to use my Personal Digital PC or PC Advance. Perhaps after playing a round of RE 4 on my PC Cube.

[ghostVi]

Preinstalling a robust and easy to use consumer OS on every HDD for PS3 is actually very cool. If the pricing is right they're going to put in your hands a workstation considerably more powerful than any desktop PC currently available. Cheaper, much cheaper. That's very very nice, I like it

If you need more space - get another HDD, I don't really want to permanently store my data on the root partition, thank you very much.

They're gonna get hurt some by having people taking the hardware and skipping the software, but in the long term it might pay-off by luring more devs on the platform by gaining popularity as a programming model. We'll have to wait and see if the idea of a multimedia supercomputer is viable.


edit: spelling

[SgtShiversBen]

But that's the thing, if they are marketing it as a computer (which they are) then it's not going to be cheap.  They have said that it won't keep the standard "toy" price which was 300$ last gen (since MS is a "toy" company).  

I actually respect Microsoft more and more now.

[Ian Sane]

When Ken speaks about the PS3 it sounds like he's trying to turn away gamers.  One of the reasons the PS2 dominated was because it appealed to everybody from casuals or hardcore gamers.  That's always been the Playstation advantage.  If it appeals to everyone then it's harder for the competition to find a seperate audience.

Sony is risking loses chunks of that audience.  Hardcore gamers aren't going to like the de-emphasis on gaming and the really casual players who buy a console just to play Madden every year don't want to pay "computer" money for the thing.  By going away from making a "toy" they're going away from made the Playstation so popular.

This is the company that beat the Saturn with the single announcement that their console was $100 cheaper.  Now they're talking about being the most expensive.  Huh?

[Spak-Spang]

See Playstation 3 IS the first attempt at an all in one set top box.  

Sony is the first with the social experiment to see if the consumer will buy a set-top computer,gaming system, DVD-player and more.  

With HD-TVs computer moniters aren't a big deal anymore.  We may finally see the beginning of moving computers completely out of the office and into the living room.

Here is the question that will be answered:  Are consumers ready for this branching?  Some will embrace every aspect of it.  Others will just be gamers, and others will just use the computer features.  As long as Sony doesn't take a lose on the system then they win no matter how it gets into the houses.  

So literally we have 3 new consoles coming out this generation.

Sony is going complete single unit multi-media entertainment system.  

Microsoft is literally going standard-fare with a few bells and whistles thrown in for onling gaming purposes.

Nintendo is pulling back to the basics and trying to find new ways to innovate the gaming experience and bring the focus around playing again.

This is the first time we actually have 3 distinctly different business models for 3 hardware console systems.  It will be interesting to see which wins.

[PaLaDiN]

Actually, MS is also going the multimedia route, they're just doing it less blatantly.

[mantidor]

"Sony is the first with the social experiment to see if the consumer will buy a set-top computer,gaming system, DVD-player and more."

wasnt the psx something like that? lets not forget how it bombed really badly.

[Spak-Spang]

Paladin:  You could argue MS is taking a more natural approach to the next step in gaming.

[couchmonkey]

Sony's plans don't really impress me.  I've always thought the "set-top box" was a sham...the idea of an everything-in-one multimedia system sounds cool, but gives up some of the advantages of component-based entertainment systems.  You can't upgrade parts individually, so you have to repay the entire cost everytime one component is broken or needs upgrading; you will probably wind up with many average components instead of good ones; and of course there will be a higher price required to get started on your home entertainment.

Personally, I like the way my electronics are organized now.  I'm also not sure HDTV will have enough penetration for this to succeed right now, and pricing could be a big issue too.

But what do I know?  I thought DVD playback would be unecessary on the PS2, and it turned out to be a pretty big selling point, supposedly, so I'm not going to make any predictions.

[BlackNMild2k1]

This is from the latest issue of Business 2.0 June 2005, which has a 4 page article on CELL. Here are a few intresting quotes from the article.

Quote
Kutaragi, known for the bold stroke and the grand vision, swung for the fences from the get-go. "We want to do something that has never been done before," he told Davari and a group of IBMers at their first meeting. "let's work together to change the world." The movie The Matrix had just come out, and Kutaragi relished itspremise of a world that is actually a giant computer simulation "Think about creating a crude version of that world," he said, "where millions of people can play in a realistically rendered virtual Tokyo or New Yourk City as if they are really living there." Creating that magical realm, Kutaragi told the team, would require a chip 1,000 times as powerful as the one in the PlayStation 2. The IBMers tried not to roll their eyes. They tended to like all that Matrix stuff, but when it came to 1,000-fold chip boosts, they thought Kutaragi was out of his mind.

We all thought he was out of his mind, but now we know

Quote
Davari tapped to lead the project was Kahle...He had designed IBM's first dual core chip, the Power4, and was just coming off a project that produced the IBM chip that powers Apple's G5 computers. "I don't want to do the normal stuff," he says with a shrug. Normal obviously want what Kutaragi had in mind. Still, one of Kahle's first moves was to talk Kutaragi down from that fantasy of a 1,000-fold power increase. Kahle figured a goal of a 100- fold boost from one chip generation to the next, having rarely if ever been achieved in the history of semiconductors, was ambitious enough.

PS4 = 1000 x the power of PS2!!!!!  O_OKutaragi was incredibly demanding and repeatedly sent Kahle back to the drawing board. At one point about a year into the project, Kutaragi made the team scrap the whole system structure and start over nearly from scratch. Another time Kutaragi decided he wanted two more cores. Why? "He just wanted to squeeze the engineering team," expains Masakazu Suzuoki, Sony's top Cell engineer, wringing his hands as if strangling a snake. "it hurt your head," Kahle recalls. Making the pain worse: The team still had to deliver the chip on the original schedule.But is Cell all its cracked up to be?  will Kutaragi see hes fantasy become reality this generation or even next?  was it all the the billions of dollars put into it?

[PaLaDiN]

"Paladin: You could argue MS is taking a more natural approach to the next step in gaming."

Sorry, I already have a PC. Your jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

[KDR_11k]

MS doesn't use mind tricks, they summon an elder demon straight into your home.

[Galford]

Everytime I hear Ken K. speak, it confirms that he is on crack.
Really though, what scares me about MS is they have learned a lot about why the XBox didn't do well in certain markets and applied it well to the XBox360.  I can't say the same about Nintendo or Sony.

Ok Sony did learn it's lesson about getting a good GPU into a console.

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo got online and backwards compatibility. The only problem left is their image (both among the public and publishers) and engineering can't fix that.

[couchmonkey]

Well, Sony didn't need to figure out why they didn't do well in certain markets, because they did well in all markets.  Maybe they could capture a little more of the Xbox market.  Enter Killzone.

I agree with KDR that Nintendo has done well by adding online and backwards compatibility, but I think public and developer relations are even more important.  MS seems to be getting really aggressive in the Xbox 360's assault on Japan, and there have been real results in terms of games.  They have two RPGs coming from Mistwalker, and support from SquareEnix - everything Nintendo should have had at the launch of the GameCube, but didn't.  Of course with Japan's gaming market on a downhill slide, Microsoft may be too late to the party, maybe traditional RPGs aren't enough anymore, but I think that Microsoft's announcements so far must be more exciting to Japan than Nintendo's.