Author Topic: I Just Saw StarWars...  (Read 15860 times)

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Offline Nile Boogie

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I Just Saw StarWars...
« on: May 18, 2005, 11:04:15 PM »
Stand, rejoice, laugh, cringe and maybe cry (I almost did) for StarWars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith does not live up to the hype. It crushes the hype with a swift and concise blow of the force. "This is the one." The one you have been waiting on since you heard of StarWars. Since you heard of movies in general. I wont go into details or spoilers, as if you don't know what's going to happen and that is precisely  what makes this movie work. You know the future and you see the road ahead, yet you're helpless to change the events of what going on right in front of you. It like watching two cars heading for an accident as you sit in on the side of the road yelling at them to watch out but they can't here you. Tragically awesome! I don't know if this is my favorite StarWars but dear me oh my it's better than at the minimum 4 of them. It's so much to take in. So much story. So much action. So much pain. It's so damn good. Acting is great deal better than any SW movie prequel or original, Maybe not so much the acting  as it is the events that surround them that brings out the best in the actors. ****ing great is this movie!!! Go see it. Forget about everything you wanted to see this week and didn't. Go see it.  It puts the entire saga into context and makes the last two films (which I must admit I liked) a whole helluva lot better by contrast. StarWars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith is love, pain, power sacrifice and a masterpiece of story telling.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 07:47:07 PM »
it was pretty cool...somke scenes didnt seem right..but those were scenes that were probably hard to convey. some stuff was dowright fantastic. Some stuff was uninteresting. I liked it the content was great..the editing was bad....anyhow it wasn't a crappy star wars movie it was one of the better ones.

in fact i had a very good time that night.

I had picked up Kamex X and a friend and dropped them off around 8. Then i left and went to the bar where my brother worked and we left at 10 to get in line. When i got there Kamek wasn't anywhere to be seen(the line was moved up).
Anyways at about 11 i ended up inside the theater. While waiting for the movie to come on they ushered the crowd into like six different screens.  My brother and his friends and i couldnt find Kamek..so we just went into the closest screen and found pretty good seats.

I brought my Ds.

two rows down from me was a kid named Jorge and he had a ds. I really damn well wanted to play. I didnt bring any games.(cus i only have spiderman and the metroid demo(which kamek was borrowing)). anyways i downloded mario ds off of jorge and we played multiplayer for a while. I really sucked..(actully i think mario ds's controls are ass). He beat me every time. anyways after i got tired of losing we pictochated. Im a good artist so i wowed them with my skills. I drew star wars crap(while waiting in line i drew some vader-pademe action).

but jorge was about 12 and his mom was sitting right there..so i kept it pretty clean i nthe theater. Nonetheless i had fun chatting. Eventually i had to go to theb athroom becausei  drank way too much soda and i handed the ds to my brother(who was trying to talk up his psp) and anyways within a few mins...jorge didnt want to pictochat anymore. My brother must have done something.

Kamek said he had a cool experience on his screen with the ds..i wished me jorge and kamek and the 5 other dsers were all in the same screen.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2005, 12:32:28 AM »
Five things about this movie:

The dialogue is terrible.  Who would say youngling?  Who would say midiclorian?  Some scenes read like monologues.

The acting is good, I am tempted to say great, but I need to see the movie again before I say something like that.  Its just that they did really well with the lines they were given.

The fall of Anakin is very believable.

The camera work is great.

The special effects get too much of the spot light as usual with this new trilogy.  The best scenes are the ones with just music and the actors expressing their emotion physically rather than through Lucas' stiff dialogue.  Too many scenes of the movie focused on digitized images.  The backgrounds have so much going on in them that you can hardly pay attention to the actors.  This trilogy has proven one thing.  Real actors on real sets or on location with real cameras is the right way to go.  When everything is in the computer it has no soul.  This story is made by the actors and the camera because those are the only real things in this trilogy.  It must have been very difficult to put on one's best performance in front of a blue screen.  
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Offline BrianSLA

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 10:36:16 PM »
Yeah I saw it too. Actually I work in the motion picture industry and I saw it six weeks ago and saw it again on opening day. I so wanted to post here and spill the beans but I am not able to ( or I lose my cool paying job ). Anyway I liked it a lot. It was a zillion times better than the last two bad movies. It was a good movie. It isn't the best Star Wars movie, that is still The Empire Strikes Back. The good: The action scenes, the battles, the lightsaber battles, etc. The bad: the script and non-action scenes. George Lucas should have provided the basic storyline of the trilogy, gotten a great screen writer and a great director and this trilogy could have been as classic as the first trilogy. I do recommend Revenge of the Sith.  

Offline ThePerm

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2005, 11:19:33 PM »
dude i was wondering where you were brian
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Offline oohhboy

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2005, 05:26:27 AM »
Christian Hayden butchered every scene he was in. The guy is the worse actor in Hollywood. Everyone else was up to snuff given what they had to work with, including Yoda whos dialoage has been greatly improved. I hope I never have to see the guy on any screen ever again.

Although the Movie doesn't match up to the originals, as a movie, it does stand up by itself. I went in with very low expectations and came out statisfed. But it fails to redem George for 1 and 2.

As epic as some of the battles were, none of them felt personal. No intensity. Just a bunch of idiots yet again running at each other shooting a point blank range. The light saber battles didn't quite feel right. Instead of long graceful moves, we get a sort of sissy fight with heaps of short blows.

The CGI was unconvincing most of the time. At points, just plain bad.

The movie moved maybe a bit too fast to cover the remaining histories and to cover plot holes. Even then it still comes out to 142 Minutes.

John Williams is also back in gear along with most of the movie.

I would give it a 7/10. Minius one for Have Hayden. Go watch it with lowered expectations and you will come out ok.
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Offline ABlueflameA

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 09:51:57 AM »
Actually, its Hayden Christianson, not the other way around.

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Offline King of Twitch

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 01:10:21 PM »
I got to see it at the midnight showing, had a blast.

Yea the fight scenes were over the top, especially the twirl jumping. Saber duels were long and too up-close. Jedi died too easily. Too many extra characters in the prequels that waste screen time detract from the premise of the sequels: to tell the back story of the originals. C-3PO and R2 get even less time in the movie, on the other hand, we see more of Yoda.  Weird animal species and locales that aren't explained. The emporer kept repeating 'we'll save Padme' about 3 times instead of showing it; any impact the dialogue scenes could've had is negated by being surrounded by action scenes. He didn't really try to explain the back story, he wanted to tell some new stories with a few of the original characters that sorta led up to the originals. Still there's a lot to take in. B- for me.
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Offline Robotor

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 01:16:15 PM »
I thought its was awesome.  Despite some of the serious scenes being laughable(partly because of my friend leaning over and saying "Count Doodoo" when they mentioned Dooku), it was pretty well acted.  Knowing what was going to happen was the wierdest sensation ever.  Grievous is my new favorite droid(cyborg?), and I was practically crying when he lost(HOW?!?).  The CGI never really got annoying, and I thought the lightsaber duels were pretty good.

All in All a good film, and one of the better star wars films.  Nothing beats the original trilogy though.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 05:03:57 PM »
i thout grevious was going to be way cooler...he was like a dork...oh well
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 08:06:10 PM »
SPOILERS COMIN LIKE WHUT

Quote

The one you have been waiting on since you heard of StarWars.
What? It still didn't feel like it belonged with the original trilogy, no matter how many links they made with it. And what was the deal with Obi-Wan going to Tattooine to learn the skill of immortality from Qui-Gonn at the very end? Last I recall Qui-Gonn was dead. I donot understand that part

Quote

It's so much to take in. So much story. So much action.
Too much action. No major surprises. The only part of the story I was really curious about was how the Jedi were slaughtered and the Empire formed (and that was wrapped up in a neat little package when they finished the movie in front of the first Death Star.

Quote

Maybe not so much the acting as it is the events that surround them that brings out the best in the actors.
lol blue screen lol

Quote

The fall of Anakin is very believable.
I like the twist at the end about Padme dying because she had nothing to live for once Anakin turned completely, not because of childbirth. Its funny how dreams can be misinterpreted.

The best part of the film was the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan - it showed how twisted Anakin had become, and just how reluctant Obi-Wan was to kill him, no matter how hard Anakin fought. Great stuff. Awful ending - oh wait, there wasn't an ending at all  

Offline Mario

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 08:38:37 PM »
I saw it, didn't like it, but at least I stayed awake during the whole movie unlike the previous one. It just... makes no sense, the fighting/action scenes are ridiculously stupid (I COULD KILL YOU RIGHT NOW! BUT I WONT! I'LL FIGHT SOME MORE AND MAYBE DIE, THEN KILL YOU! Then i'll fly through a million lasers/bullets flying around the place, and not get hit by any of them while everyone around me does!), and everything else was just boring.  

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2005, 08:56:01 PM »
Quote

I COULD KILL YOU RIGHT NOW! BUT I WONT! I'LL FIGHT SOME MORE AND MAYBE DIE, THEN KILL YOU!  Then i'll fly through a million lasers/bullets flying around the place, and not get hit by any of them while everyone around me does!

Wait....doesn't that happen in everything?

I have not seen the movie, and I probably won't for a while (crowded theatres piss me off).  Despite most people are saying, I think the movie will suck.  So there.  Even from what I've seen in the commercials convinces me that this will not feel right.  When grouped with the first two it might, but it's like 4, 5, and 6 are from a whole different series.  They just don't fit.  
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2005, 09:59:58 PM »
Quote

When grouped with the first two it might, but it's like 4, 5, and 6 are from a whole different series. They just don't fit.


That was how I felt. Yeah, it fits in with TPM and AotC in terms of story, but the fact they had forced so many connections to 4,5 and 6 (right down to the Chewbacca appearance) left it feeling like it was trying to be something totally different. They really didn't need to show Luke being delivered to Tatooine, did they? The fact that the movie was a lot longer than the 120 mins that Lucas originally wanted each prequel to run for confirms it.

Oh yeah, the movie required more Death March music (you know, the Darth Vader theme). I only heard it once at the very end, and it wasn't when Anakin was put into the suit. Oh well.

Offline nemo_83

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2005, 10:41:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Shift Key
SPOILERS COMIN LIKE WHUT

Quote

The one you have been waiting on since you heard of StarWars.
What? It still didn't feel like it belonged with the original trilogy, no matter how many links they made with it. And what was the deal with Obi-Wan going to Tattooine to learn the skill of immortality from Qui-Gonn at the very end? Last I recall Qui-Gonn was dead. I donot understand that part

Quote

It's so much to take in. So much story. So much action.
Too much action. No major surprises. The only part of the story I was really curious about was how the Jedi were slaughtered and the Empire formed (and that was wrapped up in a neat little package when they finished the movie in front of the first Death Star.

Quote

Maybe not so much the acting as it is the events that surround them that brings out the best in the actors.
lol blue screen lol

Quote

The fall of Anakin is very believable.
I like the twist at the end about Padme dying because she had nothing to live for once Anakin turned completely, not because of childbirth. Its funny how dreams can be misinterpreted.

The best part of the film was the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan - it showed how twisted Anakin had become, and just how reluctant Obi-Wan was to kill him, no matter how hard Anakin fought. Great stuff. Awful ending - oh wait, there wasn't an ending at all


Actually Palpatine drained her life force to keep Anakin alive and that is how she dies.  Oh it just gets more tragic the more you learn.  Padme is the only one besides Luke through the whole series who believes in Anakin.  They both insist that there is still good in him.

There were too many secondary characters and the movie is edited to the point where I can see how most people not familiar with The Clone Wars would not understand.  Like how Anakin had to face the trials in a cave other than the one on Degabog.  Inside those caves lives the dark side of the force and at the same time it is a mirror drawing out what you bring in.  I believe they should have started this series with Anakin being found in Phantom menace with Hayden in his teens so that we stayed with the same actor.  The nine year old boy story in Phantom Menace left fans asking who the hell was the hero in that film?  What the hell was that movie about?  Well now we know, but still I think George should have shifted the time frame of the events in these movies.  As I said, he should have started later in time when Anakin was older and led the first movie into the beginning of the Clone Wars.  The second film should have been The Clone Wars, so we could see the character darken and we could find out about the pregnancy at the end of it rather than the beginning of RotS.  This would mirror how in ESB Luke finds out who his father really is.  Then once we got to RotS most of the movie would focus on Anakin as Vader rather than waiting till almost the end before he goes dark.  Plus it could open the chances of a second ending for the movie after he goes into the helmet just when you think it is over.  Mace with a new hand and lightsaber fights Vader after a scene showing Vader constructing his red lightsaber, and this time we see how dark Vader can really be.

The thing about Qui Gon is that he retained his conciousness in the force in the real world, but was unable to recover his body because he didn't know how to become one with the force when he died.  There is a netherworld, but Qui Gon, Ben, Yoda, and Anakin are able to retain their spirit forms in the real world.  Ben, Yoda, and Anakin all fade away when they die.  Luke burned the suit at the end of RotJ, Anakin's body was not in it.  Also this is forever, they are eternal in this world and the next.  Here is the thing though.  This opens the door for Sidious to return in spirit form after RotJ and to eventually enter a clone of himself.  I would not be surprised to see Luke be the one to pull the switch to bring the ugly raisin back to life to learn the dark force powers.

Anakin was likely created by Darth Plageus the Wise.  Perhaps Sidious knew where Anakin was too.  The son of suns.  Tattoine.  So he used the force to see ahead of time to plan the Naboo incident which he knew would lead to the discovery of Anakin by the Jedi.  He played everyone like a harp.  He used one war to hide a secret war of his own.  

And I am going to violate the law of the planet.  I am going to talk about politics now.  This movie is obviously about Cheny, Bush, Delay, and generally the politicians in Washington, but most of the negativity is aimed at the Republicans.  Did you guys like the political symbolism?  I mean it's more thought provoking than most of the other summer movies that will come out this year.  Fantastic Four?  Why didn't they just skip the FF and just do one big movie with the Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Doom, and Galactus.  
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Offline ruby_onix

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2005, 02:29:11 AM »
I thought this third movie was far better than the previous two, but it still had some big flaws.

I'll just spoiler everything from here on out.

I thought the fighting in this one wasn't that great. It didn't have the "martial arts" of the Darth Maul fight in Episode 1, nor did it have the "heart" present in any of the original three movies.

I liked how General Grevious (sp) kicked a lot of butt in the Clone Wars (which I never saw in it's entirety, stupid format, but from what I saw, it was clearly better than Episodes 1 and 2), but he was only half the cyborg here, because Samuel L Jackson already whooped his ass in the two seconds that they saw each other at the end of the Clone Wars. I don't think Ep3 would have been as good of a movie without the Clone Wars.

I REALLY didn't like how Anakin turned. The Emperor was toying with him nicely, he was coming along, but it wasn't nearly far enough. Then all of a sudden there's a fight, the Emperor's trying to bribe him, Anakin reacts without thinking and whacks Samuel L Jackson, but instead of dealing with it somehow, or trying to cover it up or something... *light switch flips* "Okay, I am evil now. Where are your babies for me to eat? Bribe? What bribe? Make with the babies already!"

I liked how Lucas threw out that "midichlorian" BS from the first movie, suggesting that the Emperor's former master had engineered Anakin. I didn't like how Lucas threw out the "ghosts" of the original three movies, by having Yoda explain that it was a secret new Jedi technique invented by Qui-Gon. Also, Anakin somehow knows this trick, despite Obi-Wan and Darth Vader never meeting again, until the day Vader kills Obi-Wan.

I didn't like Obi-Wan's new Jar-Jar-mobile (R). Or George Lucas's big "look at the sexy new Jar-Jar-mobile (R) I have created" money shot that they gave it. And then they give Grevious a badass new Star Wars motorcycle (which really kicks a stupid podracer's butt), but wait though, don't you just love how my great new Jar-Jar-mobile (R) is every bit as good as that Star Wars motorcycle? He's so cute, and funny, look at the way he runs!

Also, too darned much of the movie looked like it was using some cheap double picture effects. But, considering that probably at least 80% of the movie was made in front of a green-screen, I guess it could've been much, much worse than it was.

The Wookies were cool, but were still a let-down. They could've done so much more with them. In fact, the whole "Wookie planet" scenes seemed like big "void" areas of the movie to me. They were so empty and hollow. The deliberate name-dropping for Chewbacca, as well as every other "big" name-dropping in these latest movies, was a crime. Also, the entire presence of R2D2 and C3PO in the new movies was a crime, although R2D2's role in this one was his best one yet. And nobody in this movie should've been calling R2D2 "Artoo" the way Luke and the others did. These three movies should've just used two new droids that were "the same, but different".

Padme's "Oh dear! I seem to have lost the will to live." *croaks* ending seemed like a low point, even for these three new Star Wars movies. I did like how Anakin got the vision of her death, and all he could see was the "Padme dying" part, not the "without Anakin at her side" part, which was made just as clear.

One thing I really didn't like about this entire new trilogy, is how Lucas has entirely tossed out the Star Wars books written in the 80's/90's/whenever, even though they used to be considered entirely "canon", and had actually written Episodes 7-9 (which are better than Episodes 1-3). But, considering that Lucas tossed the original three movies out of the canon, I shouldn't be surprised. I was under the impression that Darth Vader had personally hunted the Jedi, one by one, until their presumed extinction. And that his cyborg body was the result of the accumulation of battle-scar after battle-scar, until he was more machine than man. Not just that he was horribly burned, and had four common-in-the-Star-Wars-universe mechanical limbs installed (which BTW, was creepy enough for me). And that all he ever did to prove he was a badass was eat a couple babies (which was also creepy enough).

The subject of clone wars in general didn't live up to the mystery they offered in the books and the original Star Wars movie. FYI, the books suggested that scientists had learned that clones have just as much force-strength as the originals, so they made a cloned army of disposable Jedi, but it turned out that when someone appeared to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, doing things that weren't what they were destined to do, the force surrounding these people became confused, and the presence of confused force drove the clones insane, particularly in the most powerful Jedi-clones.

Oh yeah and, Yoda's "I lost. So I'm going into exile. Bye now." ending just seemed like a lame way to put him into the right place at the right time for the next movies. The books suggested that Yoda was living on Dagobah because it was awash in the Dark Side of the force, released after a powerful Sith Lord was defeated there long ago (in the cave where Luke had his vision). Vader could sense the powerful Light Side force of the Jedi, and that's how he hunted them, so the only way for Yoda to hide his light from Vader was to become obscured in a fog of darkness.

Hmm... let's see. I didn't like how every member of the entire clone army seemed to be "in on" the Emperor's plot to wipe out the Jedi, and yet the Jedi were utterly oblivious to it. Also, any Jedi can apparently be taken down by about five of those cannon-fodder clone troopers. That was just lame.

The Emperor's transformation into monkey-face was lame. They should've just let people keep assuming that time eventually did that do him.

Also, why were they constructing the Death Star at the end of the movie? What, did it take the Empire twenty years to build the first Death Star, when it took only them six months to build the second one? They should've had them looking at a 90% complete Star Destroyer, or something like that.
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Offline Arbok

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2005, 09:14:50 AM »
"I didn't like Obi-Wan's new Jar-Jar-mobile (R). Or George Lucas's big "look at the sexy new Jar-Jar-mobile (R) I have created" money shot that they gave it. And then they give Grevious a badass new Star Wars motorcycle (which really kicks a stupid podracer's butt), but wait though, don't you just love how my great new Jar-Jar-mobile (R) is every bit as good as that Star Wars motorcycle? He's so cute, and funny, look at the way he runs!"

Was I the only one who loved that guy? I thought the special effects were very good, and I didn't see anything wrong with the creature what so ever...
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Offline BrianSLA

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2005, 03:27:42 PM »
>>  dude i was wondering where you were brian <<

Hey Perm, I've been around but I haven't had much to say. Late last year I got an Alienware top of the line PC so I am more PC gamer now ... AND I gotta say these forums are a lot deader than they were a year ago and alot of the old names are nowhere to be seen.  I also don't post much because the job keeps me super busy. I worked on Star Wars & will be working on War of the Worlds, Mr & Mrs Smith, Fantastic Four and others, so I won't have time. I will have a very nice full wallet though.  

Offline ruby_onix

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2005, 09:03:20 PM »
Quote

Was I the only one who loved that guy?

Nah, you're not alone. I'm pretty sure that George Lucas liked him too.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2005, 02:28:34 PM »
"Also, why were they constructing the Death Star at the end of the movie? What, did it take the Empire twenty years to build the first Death Star, when it took only them six months to build the second one? They should've had them looking at a 90% complete Star Destroyer, or something like that."

I brought that up with my friend after seeing the film and his response was "well obviously Death Star technology has greatly improved over the years."

Overall I liked the movie.  It's nowhere near the same league as the original trilogy though.  It's best qualities seems to be that it's not as terrible as Episode II.  It's a competent movie but "not sucking" is still way below Star Wars expectations.

The Good:
- Anakin's heel turn is quite believable.  In Episode II he was an out-of-character brat.  In this he really comes across as Darth Vader.  I really feel that the character in this film matches Vader in Return of the Jedi particularly at the end when he kills the Emperor.  He's deep down a good guy with good intentions who's loyal to the Jedi order that gets corrupted by the Dark Side.  His redemption in Return of Jedi is a more powerful moment because of this film (though it's ruined by the edited ending).

- I love how Anakin make a big mistake by misinterpreting a vision, just like Luke does in Empire Strikes Back.  That parrallel is perfect.  Both jump to conclusions and bad sh!t happens to them as a result.  Both also don't accomplish what they set out to do.

- There's no dead space in the story.  Everything is important to the plot and the pacing is great.

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The Bad:
- It still has bad acting, bad direction, bad writing, and too much computer animation.

- Padme dying of a broken heart is f*cking lame.

- There's a huge inconsistency in that in Return of the Jedi Luke asks Leia if you she remembers her real mother because he never knew his.  She remembers stuff but in this film she only knows her mother as well as Luke does.  That's just unacceptable and it's the biggest problem with these prequels.  I, a casual Star Wars fan, should not have a better knowledge of the Star Wars continuity than George Lucas.

- There is a lot of neat stuff that was only referenced in this movie.  Why the f*ck is Episode II full of sh!tty Anakin/Padme romanitic crap while the Clone Wars are related to a cartoon series (which I haven't seen)?  Dooku and Grievous should be dying in Episode II.  This film should have been all about Anakin's turn with all the other looses ends being tied up first.  This is really a problem with the other two prequels which have too few essential plot points and a lot of fluff.

- Everything is too accelerated.  Anakin turns heel and wipes out the entire Jedi order in, what, two hours or so?  Again this has to do with what Lucas didn't show before and had to squeeze into this film.

What I would like to see is someone else, with TALENT, take the general storyline of these films and make their own interpretation of Star Wars Episodes I-III.  I would like to see someone who can direct and write, who knows exactly what needs to happen by the end of Episode III (I imagine Lucas just made it up as he went along), and who knows what worked and what didn't with these films take a shot at it.

Here's what I would do if I made a remake:

- Less CG.  I would make the film match the look of the original trilogy.  Animation would be a last resort with models and puppets getting priority.

- No Jar Jar.  He's a useless character and he sucks.

- Darth Maul and Count Dooku would be the same character.  It makes no sense to have a really cool Sith Lord get barely introduced and then killed in Episode I when there's a perfect role for him in the other movies.  Darth Maul would be the big secondary villian of all three movies (or maybe just the first two depending on how I break up Ep III) until Anakin kills him at the request of Palpatine.

- Anakin would be a teenager when he meets Obi-Wan.  The pod race still happens but the events of Eps I and II are laregely bridged together.  Most of Ep I is unessential so I would eliminate it.  The attempt on Padme's life in Ep II and the trade dispute in Ep I would be combined.  The first half has them rescuing the Queen and meeting Anakin.  The second half is them investigation Jango Fett and having the big ass battle which introduces the clone army.  Palpatine would already be the Chancellor.

- No Qui-Gon.  Obi-Wan's character would act as both roles.  Obi-Wan is useless in Ep I anyway.  Obi-Wan would also have been directly trained by Yoda to be consistent with the original trilogy.  Jedi are not trained a children.  It's like a priesthood.  You join as an adult and get trained one-on-one.  There's no issue with Anaking being trained.  He wants to be a Jedi so Obi-Wan teaches him.

- No midiclorians.  Being a great Jedi requires dedication not good genetics.  No prophecy either since it really makes no sense and Anakin being concieved by the Force is stupid.  I probably wouldn't have his mother either since saving his girl seems like a good enough incentive to turn to the Dark Side.  Since Anakin's mom is out of the picture Owen Lars is Obi-Wan's brother (he'll change his name from Kenobi to hide from the Empire when he has Luke).  He'll help them out on Tatooine in Ep I and then get Luke in the end of Ep III.

- Episode II is largely based around Obi-Wan training Anakin and the Clone Wars.  Anakin and Padme fall in love in a less obvious and irritating way.

- Episode III is largely the same though it won't be as accelerated.  The rescue of the Chancellor will likely occur at the end of Ep II.

- No damn inconsistencies.

Offline Arbok

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2005, 02:34:36 PM »
 
Quote

Jedi are not trained a children. It's like a priesthood. You join as an adult and get trained one-on-one. There's no issue with Anaking being trained. He wants to be a Jedi so Obi-Wan teaches him.


"No, he is too old! Too old to complete the training..." Jedi are trained as children, recall when Yoda doesn't want to train Luke in Empire Strikes Back as he deems him too old?
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Offline ruby_onix

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2005, 03:42:59 PM »
Quote

"No, he is too old! Too old to complete the training..." Jedi are trained as children, recall when Yoda doesn't want to train Luke in Empire Strikes Back as he deems him too old?

I got the impression that Yoda was making up excuses, trying to ditch Luke, but then Obi-Wan kept butting in with stuff like "Was I any different when you trained me?"
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2005, 03:54:00 PM »
INCONSISTENCY

Saw the movie last night.  I'm afraid I'm not inclined to go into a long discussion about it, since I already did so with my friends and all of you have already done a swell job, but I'll point out a few things.

1. Great attention to detail.  Lucas has always been good at including a lot of extra stuff that make the Star Wars universe seem complete, even if he is a terrible writer.

2. In that vein of thought, Lucas is great at creating a world that is not only plausible, engaging, and interesting, but massive in its sense of scope.  He gives tons of details to the parts that involve the story, but he also includes the suggestion of a lot more.  It's why people can do so much extra stuff about this world (Clone Wars cartoon, all the books, comics, games, etc).  It's very complete and excellently done in that sense, even Episodes 1-3.  Lucas and his crew are great at that.

3. Terrible acting, but I suspect that may have had a lot more to do with the writing than the actors.  As a writer, listening to what they were saying, I could tell that the way they were written screwed that over pretty badly.  Padme's heartbreak line especially.  It hurt to listen to that.

Quote

Weird animal species and locales that aren't explained.


That's kinda the point.  He'd have to make the movie five hours long if he had to explain everything.  Leaving things unexplained is what gives a world a sense of completeness, because realistically, you're not going to know everything about that world.

I didn't like how all the droids made noises.  Why?  Also, there's no noise in space, but that's a problem originating in the first three movies.

I thought Grievous was pretty rad.  Not bad to the bone vicious or anything, but a really cool character design and an interesting new idea for a villain.  He didn't use the art of the Jedi, he just tried to imitate it with science, pulled out some lightsabers and twirled them.  He was a coward, as they say in the movie.  I like that every villain isn't "Holy crap omnipotent Sith lord" like it easily could have been.

Way too much CGI, but it was impressive stuff.  I mean, you may have been able to tell from time to time, but it's some of the most impressive stuff we've seen yet.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2005, 04:06:45 PM »
"'No, he is too old! Too old to complete the training...' Jedi are trained as children, recall when Yoda doesn't want to train Luke in Empire Strikes Back as he deems him too old?"

When I first saw that film though I didn't jump to the conclusion that Jedi are trained as children.  I figured Yoda was just making excuses.  The fact that he says Luke is reckless and Obi-Wan says he was too is inconsistent.  If Obi-Wan was a kid how could he be reckless like Luke?  Obviously one would assume that Obi-Wan was trained in a manner similar to Luke.

It's like how when Obi-Wan says that when he met Anakin he was already a great pilot.  That's true though I don't think anyone came to the conclusion that Anakin was a kid at the time.  Or how Obi-Wan is technically trained by Yoda but it was as a child.  Those are two things that technically aren't inconsistent but are not at all what anyone except George Lucas expected.  It's by sheer fluke that they aren't inconsistent.  So to tie in with the original trilogy better I would use what I figured the past was when I saw the first films instead of what Lucas came up which barely makes sense.

Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2005, 02:13:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MJRx9000
...Weird animal species and locales that aren't explained...


Was the Rancor explained? Was Bossk the bounty hunter explained? Was IG-88 explained? Was Dantooine explained? Was the Wompa explained? Were the Mon Calamari explained? Was the tentacle thing in the trash compactor explained? Was the space worm explained? Was the Salacious Crumb explained?

You get my drift.

As for the Death Star. It was a bit premature. But remember, there are about four years in between Ep. 4 and Ep. 6. Not to mention, they already knew how to construct it, therefore construction would have gone faster. And they never actually finished it.

And the prophecy kinda had to be there. He had to use the major parts from some of the books, lest the fans kill him.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2005, 02:18:17 PM »
Quote

Was the tentacle thing in the trash compactor explained?


ARRRG I CAN'T FIGURE THIS ONE OUT AT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2005, 03:46:14 PM »
also upon inspection of the looking at the deathstar..that could have been when luke was a kid..theres no time reference on that scene.
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Offline blackfootsteps

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2005, 03:54:20 PM »
I thought Ep III was way better than I expected.

Exceptions
1. The light-switch turn of Anakin to the dark side.
2. Vader's cliched "Noooooooo!" upon hearing of Padme's fate. I shudder.
3. General Grievous was useless, I believe that Darth Maul should have been the main evil focus until Anakin became Sidious' apprentice. Obviously this would have affected Dooku aswell.
4. C-3PO, Chewbacca were token appearances.
5. etc

Speaking on the 'mystery' of the universe discussion, I like not knowing, eg about Boba Fett. Finding out about his back story reduces some of the mystique.

I loved the spirit netherealm story. It comes full circle with Obi-Wan's "If you strike me down Darth" line in Ep IV

 
“I waited all day. you waited all day.. but you left before sunset.. and I just wanted to tell you the moment was beautiful. Just wanted to dance to bad music drive bad cars.. watch bad TV.. should have stayed for the sunset...if not for me.â€

Offline nemo_83

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2005, 06:35:49 PM »
The second death star was begun before the fist one was destroyed.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2005, 08:01:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo

...Was the tentacle thing in the trash compactor explained?...


DIANOGA! That's what the thing is called.

And it's "Wampa" not "Wompa". My mistake.

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Offline King of Twitch

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2005, 08:13:45 PM »
...Was the tentacle thing in the trash compactor explained?...

NO

There werea few scenes that weren't necessary, like the Wookies fighting that didn't have a bearing on the plot is what I meant.
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Offline Nile Boogie

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2005, 08:19:24 PM »
The Death Star Thing:

First they foreshadow this in episode 2 but more importantly in episode 4 Vader clearly says, "They'll be no one to stop us this time."  This was in the first 5mins of the movie so one has to assume that something happened to set the empire back in some way, shape or form before the events of A New Hope. Also the opening crawl speaks of a Rebel victory against the Galactic Empire. So can we equate this to maybe the Rebels placed the completion of said Death Star back by a few. Besides, the Empire was fresh (at the end of sith) and there was still a Galactic Senate until Ep.4 so it was probably not as easy to build such a thing or so quickly.  
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Offline oohhboy

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2005, 03:29:11 AM »
I thought the quote "No one will stop us this time" was in reference to the trouble that Vadar had to go through in his efforts to chase down the death star plans. Not to the fact that some one sabotaged the Death Star. Besides, how the hell can you sabotage anything that big.

Ep 4-6 Took about 5 Years and it has always been assumed that construction of the second death star started right after the first one was destroyed. I mean what would you do with two Death Stars. Also remember that the second Death Star wasn't completed. It was only about half built but operational. It was also a "Mark II" Death Star as the first one couldn't target Starships therefore had normal anti-starship Turbo Lasers to kill those, which as a side effect could hit fighters for thier lives.

The time between Ep 3-4 should have only have been 10 years at most, not 20.

The Emporer kept the Senate to maintain control of the Galaxy. Also with the war he had cloned troops on every planet in control of key installations.

But it has to be said the the prequals just don't work right and the originals, uncut are better movies anyway you cut it.
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2005, 11:27:09 AM »
I can't believe I'm about to get into a discussion about Star Wars.

I liked the movie, in fact I liked all of the new movies, but I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan.  I also noticed the consistency issues with the Death Star and with Vader basically taking out the entire Jedi in one night...but in the latter case, although Lucas unfortunately implied that Obi Wan and Yoda were the only ones left, he left it open-ended enough.  They wouldn't have gone to the trouble of reversing the message coming from the Jedi headquarters if there wasn't a chance that some were left, and it's unecessary for the movie to show Darth Vader hunting down each remaining Jedi.

I agree that Anakin's "turning" seemed a little abrupt, but I didn't find it totally unbelievable.  Perhaps it could have been more believable if he had actually gotten into a full-blown fight with Mace Windu and done the killing himself, but I can't think of a better moment in the movie for it to happen, and there wasn't a lot of time to keep on developing his turn to the Dark Side.

My personal pet peeves were:
- Darth Vader's "NOOOOOO!"  something about the scene was off...I think it was his body language.  But I have to say, I liked how James Earl Jones delivered the other lines from that scene.  It really felt like there was still a hint of the young, emotional, and naive Anakin left.
- Yoda saying he was going into exile...just leave that line out, it was explained well enough when they were deciding what to do with the babies.
- The Chewbacca name-dropping, again, just leave it out.  People would have more fun guessing, and less whining too.

Oh, and one little thing from Episode II that came back to haunt Episode III.  Why on earth did the Jedi decide to use the clone army anyway?  I guess after using it reliably for a few years one might start to get comfortable with it, but Obi-Wan seemed freaked out by them in Episode II and there were plenty of reasons not to trust the clones.

Enough negativity!  I still really liked it.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2005, 10:15:58 PM »
Yeah, one thing that weirded me out was the end of the movie, when suddenly Death Star and all those Imperial Death Star guys.  It's like, coming out of nowhere.

And I still like General Grievous a lot, even if he wasn't "necessary".  It makes sense for someone like that to lead the army.  I mean Hell, I don't think Darth Maul could even talk.  He was a puppet, and I thought that was a cool idea.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2005, 03:38:25 AM »
I believe that Darth Maul had one line in Ep. 1. Something equivalent to "Yes master."
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Offline Dasmos

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2005, 03:42:49 AM »
Yeah i just saw this..........wel two nights ago. I found the transition from Anakin to Vader far too swift.....Who just swears allegiance to evil that quickly. I also found the droids incredibly annoying (especially R2)...

Also while drinking a can of Schweppes Lermonade and noticed this

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

Pretty Mad in my opinion...
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Offline Bloodworth

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2005, 04:43:07 PM »
My main problems have already been stated, but I'll voice them again here.  The biggest issue I have is the inconsistency with Padme's death in childbirth.  Leia remembered her mother, and Vader remarked that "your mother did well to hide her from me".  Both lines reference Padme living a few years after the children were born.

The whole development of Anakin throughout these films really bothers me.  We saw very little of him as a hero.  He was a conceited disrespectful brat in Episode II, and there are a whole slew of things I could get into with that film.  In this one though, we see him wavering between the dark and light, but his final turn doesn't really make sense.  He actually seems to realize that the Emperor is wrong, but then just kind of shrugs and goes along with it.

The "kill them all" command from Palpatine also seems to contradict dialogue in the originals that indicate Vader betrayed and hunted down the Jedi personally, plus it turned every nameless Jedi into mindless cannon fodder.  I'm sure Lucas feels he left enough wiggle room to say that Vader hunted down the rest of the survivors between three and four though.

So yeah, I've enjoyed these films okay, but I can't help shake the urge to rewrite them and say "this is how it really happened".
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2005, 05:10:11 PM »
hmm....well the pacing fo the three didnt really work out..i can imagine a much cooler version of what happened..and mybe someday someone iwll remake star wars completely.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2005, 08:20:09 PM »
"I've enjoyed these films okay, but I can't help shake the urge to rewrite them and say 'this is how it really happened'."

Everyone does.  Pretty much anyone I've talked to has their own ideas of what they would do.

"your mother did well to hide her from me"

Actually I think it's "Obi-Wan did well to hide her from me".  The Leia thing is still inconsistent though.

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2005, 02:19:43 PM »
I actually don't think Anikin turned dark abruptly: he tried to uphold the Jedi values but wound up disobeying the top Jedi and indirectly KILLING HIM.  He knew he wasn't trusted before--obviously he would be in trouble.  He decides it is his fate to join the Emperor, so he just shrugs and accepts it.
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Offline jasonditz

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2005, 04:21:44 PM »
It was a decent movie if you're a fan of the series, but its not very well "self-contained". There's no real ending to the movie, it just kind of cuts out when they run out of decent stuff that fits in the storyline.

Its like that old Kids in the Hall sketch... no beginning, no ending, its all middle.


Offline Robotor

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2005, 10:22:22 PM »
Maybe Leia has a really good memory because of her force influence?  Or maybe Leia has a bad memory, and is combining photos with her actual childbirth and making her own memories ofher mother.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2005, 09:12:21 AM »
I think Leia is remembering Organa, her adopted mother.


Have you guys gone back and watched the old movies since watching Sith?  There are a lot of things that really tie in.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2005, 09:31:47 AM »
"I think Leia is remembering Organa, her adopted mother."

I think George Lucas is just an idiot.  If we have to say "maybe" or "I think" to make a plot consistent then that means the writer f*cked up.  The guy edited the original films to make them "fit" better with the prequels.  Why would he have to do that?  He's made the prequels with full knowledge of what happens in the later films.  Anyone with half a brain would have made the prequels consistent and thus would not have to edit the originals.

In Return of the Jedi Leia remembers her real mother.  That's how it was obviously intended at the time and that's how it is.  If the Revenge of the Sith isn't consistent with that then it's because Lucas is a hack.  In my opinion the original unaltered trilogy is the real Star Wars and if the prequels contradict anything it's because the prequels are WRONG.

Offline jasonditz

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2005, 05:31:44 PM »
What about (between 1 and 2) Anakin going from small, precocious child to angst-ridden teen while Padme barely aged at all by comparison. Nevermind that as a small child he was able to lust after her to begin with, if they'd insisted on an older actress for Padme in the last two movies, some 30-something, maybe they wouldn't have felt the need to focus on their mooning little love affair on Naboo in the second movie. Or if they did, it would've taken on a much creepier and by extension less insipid vibe.

Also, considering the nature of how Palpatine turned him to the darkside, wouldn't hiding Luke with Vader's only surviving relatives be a questionable move? Wasn't one of the perks of the darkside the ability to keep ties with one's family? Considering all the Jedi (besides Yoda and Obi-Wan) are apparently dead by the end of the movie, surely Vader needs to do something to kill time over the next couple of decades. Maybe episode 3.5 involves Vader popping in on Uncle Owen in about 5 years and them making Luke hide in the closet?


Offline Nile Boogie

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2005, 05:00:46 AM »
StarWars is whatever George Lucas says they are. With that being said the biggest problem I have is with Anakin knowing how to give himself to the force without the teachings of Qui-Gon, Yoda or Obi-Wan. Maybe There is something I'm am missing or it's to be explained at a later date. Either or I think it's a preety big mis. The Leia remembering her mother isn't that big of a deal to me. She is just better at that part of using the force than Luke, no big deal.

With all the hype over for me and looking back on all six moives, and being of sound mind and body, I can say that StarWars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith is the best movie of the saga, followed very closely by Empire. I know I know, I'm crazy and I must have never seen the OT in the movies(which I have) to say such blasphemy. So go head on Jonny Storm me...  
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2005, 06:01:18 AM »
Yeah... You get an F in movie-watching...
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2005, 07:24:00 AM »
"I can say that StarWars Episode II: Revenge of the Sith is the best movie of the saga, followed very closely by Empire."

I'm curious as to why you feel it's the best.  I figure that the superior acting, writing, and directing in Empire and Jedi alone would disqualify any of the prequels as being considered the best.

I would consider the original trilogy to be better just because all three are exceptional movies.  Episode III is merely decent, II just plain sucks, and I is average at best.  

Offline Nile Boogie

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2005, 04:10:38 PM »
Never has any of the previous movies OT or PT dragged me in like Sith did. I felt hat movie, as much as I felt Gladiator. It was like a Greek Tragedy knowing the end just made the movie that much better. I guess I really related to Anakin in which so much was expected of him, so many people pulling him in different directions , good, evil, love and hate. The way Palpatine just played the Jedi from the gate was just awesome! Yoda was as good a Yoda there can be (fighting that is, not thinking). The Purge of the Jedi was some major tear jerking stuff. It all seemed right. But all those things alone didn't push it past Empire. It was the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader on Mustafar. When Obi-Wan said what he said about those two being like brothers and how he loved him, the pain in their faces pushed it past ESB. The acting seemed on par with Empire. The writing was just as good through my eyes. And the directing was near what I expected expected (I felt some things should have been flushed out a bit as well as the fights should have been a bit longer but perhaps the DVD will suffice).

One thing you must understand about Nile Boogie is I am not cynical by any stretch. I can enjoy stuff life movies and games just on a topical level. It's fun for me to dig deep into certain parts to find little meanings and links to undercover or unspoken looks, but I will never "overstand" movies and try to place my vision through another lens. I have music for that.


P.S. I really liked the first two, flaws and all so what else could you expect from a cat like me.
Nile Boogie is...


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Offline Shecky

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2005, 05:34:22 PM »
To many lines are forced.... primarily by Hayden Christensen (Anakin) and Natalie Portman (Padme) - although Hayden gets the crown I say.

"I miss you ..... **so** ..... **much**." by Anakin in Episode II referring to shmi .... I hated the delivery of that line... did they only do one take of that scene? was there no better delivery of that line?  Both of them aren't much better in Episode 3.

Ewan McGregor (Obi-Wan Kenobi) does a very good job though.  (another episode 2 example, is Obi-Wan in the dinner - might just be one of the most natural scenes of the movie)

The other problem is that sometime they just have to say stupid things that don't quite flow - then it doesn't matter who you are.

Offline jasonditz

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2005, 06:35:07 PM »
There's just plain no way to have Darth Vader scream "Noooo!" in an anguished manner and make it sound decent.

Offline Shecky

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2005, 08:59:36 PM »
Yes and for those things (bad lines no mater what) I can't blame the actor, they were instructed to say it.  I blame the director instead.

Offline oohhboy

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2005, 04:04:53 AM »
Ok at this point we can mostly agree that Geoge hacked the prequals.

The acting was in general of a lower quality with special mention to Hayden.

CGI was overblown and generaly unconvincing.

The dialoge was poor.
l
Plot and chronological holes and loopholes pepper the prequals as if fired from a belt-fed automatic shotgun hooked up to an ammo factory.

Ewan McGregor tried his best.

Vadar Can't scream NOOOOOOO.

!!!!Most people can actually agree with Ian Sane on a topic!!!!

Geoge Lucas is still a Hack with suggestions of "thrown out of airlock" and "into sun" being mentioned.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
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Offline jasonditz

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RE: I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2005, 08:43:15 AM »
Episode III didn't even feel like a movie, it felt like a 2 and a half hour fanservice. At least Episodes I and II (for as bad as they were) were wholly self-contained movies with well defined beginnings, middles, and ends.  

Offline Nile Boogie

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2005, 04:26:48 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
Episode III didn't even feel like a movie, it felt like a 2 and a half hour fanservice. At least Episodes I and II (for as bad as they were) were wholly self-contained movies with well defined beginnings, middles, and ends.
 

I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's the 3rd part to a 6-part saga, how can it feel self contained when you already know what has to happen. Not the second Matrix or LotR movies seemed to be stand alone films so why should Episode 3. What happens if they make Episode 0, 800 years before Episode 1 when Yoda was a padawan. Will the par still be so high.
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Offline Robotor

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RE:I Just Saw StarWars...
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2005, 09:21:19 PM »
Darth's daily tragedies

I-mockery goes behind the scences and joins Darth Vader in an average day.  It seems screaming "NOOOOOO!!!!" is completly natural.
It may be simple, but it ain't easy.