Topic: Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars

[NWR_insanolord]

I'm making a dedicated topic for this game because it's not getting nearly as much buzz as it deserves.


Unlike the other games in the Ghost Recon series, which have been first-person shooters, Shadow Wars is a tactical RPG, along the lines of something like Fire Emblem. The development is being led by Julian Gollop, who worked on the game X-COM: UFO Defense, which featured similar gameplay and which IGN called the greatest PC game of all time.


Looking at the list of launch games for the 3DS, Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars seems to offer what is easily the deepest game at launch, and the deepest original 3DS title for quite some time. This game has real potential to be looked back on as the "hidden gem" of the 3DS launch, but I think people are ignoring it because of the Tom Clancy name on the box. That's a mistake.


If you want to know more about the gameplay, check out this developer interview.

[Razorkid]

I'm not sleeping on this title. I'm definitely picking it up probably in a month once I get through my initial cadre of launch titles.

[NWR_insanolord]

I had my doubts about this game because of Ubisoft's review embargo, but I am now definitely picking it up day one because of a tweet by our esteemed director Neal Ronaghan.

"Played about 30 minutes of Ghost Recon 3DS. I think this might be the 3DS launch's hidden gem."

[Mannypon]

Nice, glad to see some feedback on this game getting out.  Here's the link I posted in another thread which seems to be a review.  Its as close to a review I've found so far besides the score of 81 this game got on ONM.  Wish someone who has the issue would summerize the review for us. 
 
http://www.ifastfwd.info/videogames/blog/game-updates/tom-clancys-ghost-recon-shadow-wars-3ds-review-multiplayer-gamer-column-on-game-people

[NeoStar9X]

I like SRPGs but I have issues with buying a DS game being passed off as a 3DS game. Then there is the whole Ubisoft factor. Word isn't good on almost all of their 3DS game offerings. Everything they have out is a rushed, poorly rushed at that, ports of games. Ghost Recon seems to be doing okay it seems in the eyes of those that have had a chance to play it but still. Perhaps because it started original as DS game is a big factor in it's favor.

[oohhboy]

It seems like they have the gameplay fundamentals down. It doesn't look half bad.

My only concern is that A: Ubisoft B: Tom Clancy. I am sure they could make an even better game without Tom Clancy baggage, but without it, I doubt it would have been made in the first place.

That said, I am far more interested in this game than anything else in the launch line up as I am a bit of a sucker SRPGs and turn based tactical games like Advanced Wars.

[NWR_Neal]

Guys, this is basically Fire Emblem/Advance Wars in the Ghost Recon world. That means it lacks a layer of Nintendo goodness, but the groundwork is solid. This is a good game.

And yes, it is a DS upped to 3DS, but the 3D effect looks kind of cool (images overlayed on other images) and the graphics just look awful in screens (like most Ubisoft DS games). It runs well in motion.

[Razorkid]

Dammit Neal! "furiously trying to figure out how to afford Ghost Recon day one"

[bosshogx]

Hey!  I haven't been on these boards in a long time, but the 3DS has brought me back.  In the meantime, I've gotten a job working for Ubisoft as a college rep.  The long and short is that I get free copies of Ubisoft games that I can use as prizes for tournaments.  I should be receiving copies of each of the 3DS titles with Ghost Recon being the most exciting.  As a huge Fire Emblem/Advance Wars junkie, expect a full review once I get into the game. 

[Razorkid]

Nice! The more impressions, the better

[Mannypon]

Hey everyone, I've got the game and am about 13 percent through at the moment.  Shoot any questions my way if your interested.  This a hell of a game though and I'd sudjest anyone who has a love for srpgs to not think twice about buying this game.  I'd go so far as to say its THE best game currently available for the 3ds.  Its by far the deapests too.

[oohhboy]

How big are the playing fields relative to the characters? Are there doors and if there are, are they handled well? Difficulty? Fog of War? Expected replay value? Nags?

[pandaradox]

I suppose I'm curious if it handles more like Xcom with the passive attacking if someone crosses a line of sight?  I'm teetering on this game as well because of the associations, but I may just crumble and get it.  Cheers to making launch purchases to possibly regret.

[Mannypon]

Let me see if I can answer these to the best of my knowledge.
The battlefields are within the typical range of srpgs such as FF Tactics and the like.  I don't believe they are any bigger but I'm early in the game so I don't know if I'll run into larger stages later on.  One differnce though is that stages are usually littered with cover such as houses, walls, fences, trees and bushes all which provide varied amounts of cover.  Fences can be crossed but with a hit on movement as does water terain. 
 
There are no doors on buildings, your character just basically goes right through the object and is then inside.  I think this is a result of this game starting off as a DS game.  If this game were built around the 3ds I believe we would've recieved more elaborate designs for buildings and cover along with more realistic animations when interacting with them. 
 
The difficulty has been just right IMO so far but I do have to make mention that I'm playing on the medium setting for my first run through.  You do get right in the thick of things early on though.  There are no baby step missions where they are insultingly easy.  In the few I've played, the mission objectives have changed midway through the stage.  They have also been instances where secondary objectives have been added midway through a mission.  This has happened a lot so far which I enjoy as the conditions changing keep the stage fresh IMO. 
 
I haven't seen any fog of war as of yet.
 
Replay value will probably come in the different difficulty settings.  I'm not exactly sure if mission objectives change with each setting though.  Also, there so far only seems to be an easy, medium, and difficult setting if I remember correctly.
 
Only nags I have so far is that it is clear the game was made with DS in mind.  Its not so much a big deal to me but when you think of what really could've been done had the developers been given time to take advantage of the 3DS's proccessing power, it makes you think of all the lost potential. 
 
As for Pandaradox's question, I've never really played Xcom given I hear it doesn't run well on new OSs so I'm not sure what you mean by passive attacking.  There is line of sight in the game which result in return fire.  Support/return fire is that if certain squad members have the enemy in thier sites and your attacked, they'll return fire along with you.  So lets say you have a cluster of 3 characters with you and you get attacked by an enemy within your party's line of site, all 3 of you will ruturn fire.  This varies per class though as some can't return fire, others can at 100 percent damane and others at 50. 
 
One other thing that I'll make mention is that each character has their own special move which can be pulled off after a certain amount of kills and attacks.  Some might be suppress fire which will negate the enemy's next turn.  Others are rapid fire which does extra damage.  There are also group skills called command moves which are for example, an air strike on enemy convoys. 
 
As for the individual characters, they all level up in what seem to be health and equipement.  They all usually cary 2 weapons and each can be improved through leveling up.  The medic has a pistol and med kit as the secondary.  Recons have a assualt rifle and drones that are deployable.  Main character has assualt rifle and a missle launcher.  Others have grenades as their secondary.  As you can imagine, each weapon type has its benefits and disadvantages. 
 
There's probably more to the game that I can't remember at the moment but again, if you enjoy SRPGs, don't hesitate on this game.  You won't regret it.

[oohhboy]

I will have to keep this game in mind when I get a 3DS. I am skipping the launch though as there is nothing I want then and the near future besides this and I am not buying something just to play one game.

[Mannypon]

A quick update on one of my previous answers.  The size of the fields are larger than your typical srpg.  As you get further along in the game the stages do open up a bit.  I currently got hosed.  I was playing one stage for an hour straight, without saving mind you, and ended up getting one of my members killed which results in a game over here.  The enemy turned aggressive on me real quick and had me retreating.  I misjudged the movement range on my recon unit and he got left behind in an attempt to retrieve my drone I had set up.  I should've just left the drone to buy me some time to retreat and reset in a better position.
 
One thing that seperates this game from your typical fantasy SRPGS is that given that all weapons are ranged, you have to approach battles much different.  You can't really send anyone anywhere alone as that can be very risky.  The ratio I have going so far is 2 units per 1 enemy at the least.  If I engage in any skirmish, I need at least 2 units to make sure I keep the upper hand.  This leads to traveling around the stage in clusters but that can be a problem if the enemy has area affecting weapons.  Its a delicate balance you have to reach in this game lol.

[Razorkid]

Man, excellent impressions! This game sounds fantastic and I'm just sorry I didn't have to money to pick this one up at launch.

[pandaradox]

Thanks, Manny.  In Xcom, if someone was moving and happened to cross an enemy's line of sight, the enemy would automatically attack once, possible hitting and stopping the character from moving more.  The return fire aspect is really interesting and I like the idea of group tactics.  You're definitely selling me on this game now. 

[KDR_11k]

I only played Incubation but that had a similar thing where a unit could go into guard mode if it had 2 AP left at the end of its turn (so it was a tradeoff between doing a lot in one turn or possibly getting some extra attacks).

[Mannypon]

Hey, since we're bring up older games lol, can anyone recomend any pc games similar to Xcom.  I remember seeing someone play it back in the day and thought it was good but I've heard it doesn't run on newer OSs.  If you can, mention if these recomendations are compatible with new versions of Windows. 

[chaingunsofdoom]

This game is easily in the top 2 for the launch titles (along with SSF4).

I've never really played many turn-based strategy games and I love this one. Sure there's no voice, but there are some animated parts every once in a while. The 3D is decent, and since it is top-down, you get a good sense of depth.

The play mechanics are solid. I don't feel the computer cheated at all so far, and when you get stuck at certain points, even if you try something different, the computer AI works differently.

The characters get some kinds of personality via the story/text bubbles, and you get to control 6 Ghosts (eventually.... along with non-Ghosts as well).

I'm on Chapter 3 now. The difficulty even on Beginner is ramping-up. There were some *very* hairy maps in Chapter 2. When you get out of the open areas and into caves and bases, you do experience some 'fog-of-war' type stuff... you have no idea what's through a door.

Once you finish a campaign mission, it will usually open-up a Skirmish map, or a co-op map, or another map (sorry forgot the name). For completing the Campaign missions, you will receive between 4-8 stars to distribute to your squad for upgrades.

You may think, 'oh, I get to buy 10 upgrades for every Ghost that's cool', but then when you get a 10th upgrade, another row opens-up and you realize there are probably 25 upgrades to get (I think?)! Besides more health, I've gotten better guns already, and add-ons like Armor.

It says there are 35 maps and 20 skirmish maps total (I have 7), so I am probably less than half-way through so far.

As for difficulty levels, I believe the only difference is the HPs and damage are upped, but someone who's farther along can confirm/deny this.

[NeoStar9X]

Well the impressions from various players have won me over. Though I'm pretty much getting it for  free due to Amazon.com credits. Here's hoping I don't regret even using that. My copy should be here sometime toward the end of the week.

[Mannypon]

Glad to see your taking the plunge lol, and for free too.   Nice lol.  If your into srpgs, I don't think you'll regret it. 
 
Reading Chain's post made me realize that there is fog of war lol.  I was thinking of fog of war as being a fog cover areas of the stage or a just having sections grayed/blacked out.  This game handles it by just revealing characters on the fly the closer you get or whenever you open doors. 
 
I feel as if I'm far into the game but I really don't have any way of checking given the game doesn't really show you what stage or chapter your on unless your just starting it.  I'll have to keep an eye out on the beginning of the next stage.  I can't really speak on the different difficulty settings and what they do as I've been playing on the medium setting exclusivly. 
 
The game can get tough at times, but not the cheap tough, which is good lol.  There have been a few missions where I barely got out of them.  1 in particular had me 1 player turn away from losing the whole stage.  I wasn't sure I was going to make it and given how long the stage was, losing would've sucked *ss lol. 
 
To me, I find the hardess missions so far are the stages that enphasise command flags.  Quick info on command flags for those that don't know.  Some stages have CFs scattered about that you or the enemy must capture.  Once a CF has been claimed, you earn 1 command point per turn.  After you accumilate a few, you can do command moves which are Airstrike or grant another player an extra movement.  There are some stages where the enemy starts off with all the command flags in their posession and for every 6 points they reseave, they call in reinforcements.  The key to winning these stages is to try and capture the flags as quick as possible but this is easier said than done.  These missions sometimes have you commanding only 4 units.  In order to capture multiple flags, you might have to split your unit up which goes against my whole cluster approach to combat.  2 units against waves of enemies, especially if you let them call in reinforcements, can get very difficult very fast.  There was one mission that I had managed to capture 1 flag but was being held back on my approach on the second one by a wave of soilders.  It took me I think around 10 turns or so of back and forth shootouts, hiding behind cover and waiting for the perfect moment where I can send someone to capture the flag and still be able to return to cover without getting killed and forcing a game over.  Brutal stuff but highly entertaining lol.

[Ailingforale]

Ok, so the game tells me I'm about 24% into the game.  I haven't done the skirmish mode yet, but my chars are mostly maxed out of upgrades in the main game.  I'm not braging, I'm just try'n to say where I'm coming from in the game. 
 
First off, I love it!  I can't believe how into this game I'm getting, I really am suprised.  Here's a few things I like about the game:
 
1: You can take cover behind fences and the sturdier the fence/barrier, the more damage will be reduced when the baddies are taking thier shots at you (that goes for them as well).  You can also hide in buildings for extra protection as well, but if you're a square inside the building you can't shoot out and people can't shoot you from the outside.  It's like you have to be near a window or something, crazy eh?
 
2: Figuring out the load outs to carry on each mission, ie do I need the extra health with the "not being able to move as far" thing.  It's something to rack your brains on before each mission if it's going to be a cqb match or a sniping expidition. 
 
3: 3D... I think it's been done rather well on this game.  Since I can't think of a way to "need" 3D in a game, just having it to make the holes seem hole-ier and the towers try and poke at my eyes when I scroll past them, it's just plain neat.
 
I've only been playing on hard and yeh, there's been times when I've wanted to stick the the 3D through something, it was mostly me just not thinking a few steps ahead.  The damage/hp thing is pretty even on boths sides and like someone mentioned before, it's a ratio thing.  Don't expect your heavy gunner to be able to take out 3 armed baddies all by himself.  However, since I haven't played on the easier setting, I'm also not sure if you don't get as much of a bonus for competing objectives in the game to help lvl you characters.  For all I know, playing on hard is just for frustrating me and leveling your rank... for whatever that does.
 
MAJOUR WARNING! 
 
SAVE FREQUENTLY!  I'm just saying.  This is one of the few games I've heard of having issues with freezing.  This should be fixed by doing the update from Nintendo, but from those that haven't updated yet... well update already.  I've also had an issue playing with the 3DS plugged in giving me and error and freezing when the battery is fully charged.  It did this to me a few times.  Simplest solution, play it unplugged for a bit... then feel free to plug and play.
 
Sorry for the wall of text, but I just had to get a few things out.  I feel this game is not getting enough cred for as awesome of a game this is.  I still don't even see a review on NWR, which makes me sad.

[bosshogx]

Got my free copy from Ubisoft and can concur with all the comments above me; this game is pure SRPG gold.  As a huge Advance Wars/Fire Emblem junkie, I am in heaven.  All units are ranged, but each unit has a different move and fire distance to take into account.

For example:

Assault Rifle user: Movement 5 squares, Movement+Fire 4 squares, Fire Range 5 squares, return fire @50%
MachineGun user: Movement 6 squares, Movement+Fire 2 squares, Fire Range 7 squares, return fire @100%

Movement+Fire indicates how many squares into your movement a character can move and still fire.  Using the above stats, the AR user can move further and still fire while the MG can't move as far while still getting the chance to shoot.  But the MG user will have a better chance at return fire with a range of 7 and do 100% damage as opposed to the 50% of the AR user.

This is just one of the more interesting tactics you need to keep in mind while playing.  Also, when a character uses a special attack, they can usually take another action afterwords.  Again, another thing to consider when in a pinch.

Sadly, I've had the game crash on me twice while playing.  Good to hear other people are experiencing the same problem.  Hopefully a fix is on the way.

More impressions to come!