Topic: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1

[Adrock]

How old is that quote? Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's not a game designer. "What do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" What the? Seriously? It's called creativity. It's not about how powerful the hardware is; it's how one uses the hardware to create a compelling experience.

[tendoboy1984]

How old is that quote? Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's not a game designer. "What do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" What the? Seriously? It's called creativity. It's not about how powerful the hardware is; it's how one uses the hardware to create a compelling experience.

Ken Kutaragi wasn't a game designer either (neither is anyone at Microsoft). Ken Kutaragi created the PlayStation to push video game technology forward, and Sony wanted to get back at Nintendo for cutting them out of the SNES CD deal.

[oohhboy]

It's from 2009.

The hardware might have changed, but the mentality behind it remains the same. PSV is literally just PSP2 and is on track for failure unless there is a massive turn around on a scale greater than the 3DS. They still have no idea how lucky they got with PS1 and PS2.

Neither Ken Kutaragi or Sony created the Playstation. Nintendo did. The technology even back in the day was limited. Sony had a product fell on their lap and they sold it. It was nothing to do with pushing technology.

[broodwars]

The Vita is a really odd culmination of concepts.  Having spent some time over the last few days playing my new one, it's really head-scratching the sheer number of "gimmies" that Sony still hasn't dealt with with that system.  For instance, we're now close to 2 months since launch, and seemingly the vast majority of PSP/PS1 digital games (certainly most of mine) still have to be downloaded on a PS3 and transferred over to a Vita.  Despite being able to play these titles, the Vita can't download them on its own.  To give you an idea of how ridiculous this can get, I can't even download my Angry Birds Mini to my Vita, which you would think might have been a priority for Sony given that...oh I don't know...it's probably easily the most popular Mini on the Playstation Store?!  It's not like it's a 3rd party issue, either, as I can't download my 1st party Sony PSP titles like Resistance Retribution either.

There are all sorts of weird interface issues as well, such as the odd way that the system does patches and DLC installs: you download patches by tapping an icon on each game's Live Area to check for updates, and if you download one you have to tap that "update" button again to install the patches.  With DLC, though, you have to actually launch the game to install any downloaded DLC, and nothing on the Vita tells you that you need to do that.  There's also no sorting option on the home screen to allow you to easily place your icons.  You have to drag, drop, and swap all the icons into the places you want, which I can see being an incredible annoyance with all the PSP games I have.

The Vita is an amazing handheld with a better software lineup right now than I think a lot of people are willing to give it credit for.  Despite its outer appearance and similarities in software and marketing approach, I don't think calling it a "PSP 2" is altogether fair as the huge emphasis on touch interface and online, as well as the completely new OS, almost make the device a totally different experience (it's probably more akin to an iPad than the PSP in that way).  Still, yeah I really have to wonder if Sony quite knew where they were going with this device because there's so much about it that they haven't really followed through on yet.

[Chozo Ghost]

Ken Kutaragi left (or fled or whatever) Sony soon after the PS3 launched. The PS4 will be Sony's first console without Kutaragi and his input, but we can already see from the Vita that whoever is now pulling the strings over at Sony seems to have the same mentality that power is more important than affordability.

That quote from Kaz Hirai from 2009 (which was only 3 years ago) is consistent with what we are seeing from the Vita, so it seems not at all unlikely that the PS4 will be a similarly powerful and expensive piece of hardware which will struggle to see adoption by both consumers and developers alike until price drops take effect.

[Chozo Ghost]

There are all sorts of weird interface issues as well, such as the odd way that the system does patches and DLC installs: you download patches by tapping an icon on each game's Live Area to check for updates, and if you download one you have to tap that "update" button again to install the patches.  With DLC, though, you have to actually launch the game to install any downloaded DLC, and nothing on the Vita tells you that you need to do that.  There's also no sorting option on the home screen to allow you to easily place your icons.  You have to drag, drop, and swap all the icons into the places you want, which I can see being an incredible annoyance with all the PSP games I have.

This is kinda funny, considering only a day ago you said:

From a sheer hardware standpoint, I'm really liking the Vita.  The OS feels pretty user-friendly, and a lot of the obnoxious bugs reported at launch seem to have been fixed.  For instance, the issue where it want you to download a firmware update before you could link your PSN account has been fixed.  Like the PSP, the Vita also came with a handy startup guide, so figuring out how to get started was easy.  The device's online functionality also seems waaay faster than the PS3's, perplexingly.  It downloads updates much faster, and it seems to transfer data much faster as well.

These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.

[Enner]

These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.

Polar opposite is pushing it. It reads more that broodwars has now encountered first-hand the OS foibles that have kin on the Playstation 3 and the Playstation Portable.

[broodwars]

These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.

It's the difference between first impressions from a few hours of experimenting and a dozen or so hours of playing games on it.  I still really like that OS, actually.  When everything is in its proper place, it's extremely fast and easy to get to the things you need, do what you need to do, and get out again.  Being icon and App-based, it's also more user-friendly than the XMB system was, though I could have used some text on some of the helper buttons and some functions really need to be consolidated (such as there being separate Apps for your Friends List, your Trophies, Party Chat, and Text Messages).  And there's something to be said for the satisfaction of closing programs by "flicking" them closed as if you were pulling a Post-It Note off.

My basic problem with the OS is a lack of in-OS explanation for certain key functions and the irritation of arranging the icons.  It's still a good OS, though.  If you like navigating an Android or iPhone OS, it'll probably be very familiar to you.  Sony really just needs to tighten it up, and it'll be fine.

The PS Store issues, though, with much if not most PSP and PS1 software requiring a PS3 to download to the Vita is ridiculous.  I have a PS3 so it doesn't prevent me from redownloading my old PSP games, but it's an annoying extra step.  I'm actually starting to wonder if the whole reason Sony still hasn't fixed this problem is that they like the idea of forcing users to own a PS3 to get the full usage of their old PSP/PS1 titles.  I remember PS1 functionality was one of the very first things Sony said they would patch in firmware.  4 months after the Japanese launch, though, it still hasn't happened.

It's stuff like that Sony really needs to fix right now because they're irritating the very people who actually ARE paying them money right now to play their Vita, and it's really indicative of the lack of focus Sony is exhibiting with this device.

[tendoboy1984]

The PS Store issues, though, with much if not most PSP and PS1 software requiring a PS3 to download to the Vita is ridiculous.

You need a PS3 to download PSP & PS1 games on the Vita? So the millions of people who don't have PS3's are left out?

That would be like Nintendo requiring us to have a DSi to download DSiWare on the 3DS.

[broodwars]

You need a PS3 to download PSP & PS1 games on the Vita? So the millions of people who don't have PS3's are left out?

Yep, though apparently PS1 games aren't transferable at all at the moment. Many PSP games require a PS3 to install on a Vita (such as Valkyria Chronicles 2 and its DLC, which I just transferred over but aren't in the store or downloadable on Vita), though looking at the grand unofficial list fewer than I thought.  When you go to your download list, these games show up as "Can't be downloaded to a Vita" where the "download" button is usually located when viewed on a Vita.  And they don't appear in the Vita version of the PS Store at all as games that can be purchased.  To play these games, you HAVE to download them first to your PS3, leave them on the XMB in "bubble" form, hook your Vita up to your PS3 through its USB power cable, and then use the Vita to transfer the files through its content management program.

Oh yeah, and while you're transferring these files, the Vita is not drawing power from the PS3 so you could conceivably run out of battery power doing this.  I've only transferred a few files at a time and I keep my Vita hooked up to its charger at nearly all times so I haven't run into that problem yet, but it's truly a brilliant situation Sony's created here.

EDIT:  OK, it seems I need to make a major correction here, and it actually makes the situation worse.  Starting tomorrow, I'm going on vacation with my family for a week, so I thought while I was still up and not doing much that I would transfer my Resistance Retribution PSP game over to my Vita instead of Dissidia 012.  After all, I'd already transferred my original save for the game over yesterday.  I thought Dissidia was one of the locked games as well, but apparently you can download that from the store.  Apparently, that's not going to happen, because Resistance (one of the games you can't download to the Vita) also can't be transferred through the content manager at the moment.  I don't know if the PS1 games can, as I don't have any in "bubble" form at the moment.  So apparently, if you can't download them to your Vita natively, it doesn't look like you can transfer them either.

Reading up on the issue, it does look like there are games that you can only transfer to your Vita through a PS3, but my "locked" games do not seem to be on the extended list as compatible games.  If Sony has any sense, they're making those remaining "locked" games work on Vita, especially the 1st party stuff like Resistance.

So despite Sony's assurances that "all your old PSP digital software will be playable from Day 1 on Vita", that is not the case at all.  You can't even work around the Vita's stubborn download refusals.  Oh joy.  Damn, I really wanted to play Resistance Retribution on vacation now that I can play it with the right analog stick as the camera... 

[tendoboy1984]

You need a PS3 to download PSP & PS1 games on the Vita? So the millions of people who don't have PS3's are left out?

Yep, though apparently PS1 games aren't transferable at all at the moment. Many PSP games require a PS3 to install on a Vita (such as Valkyria Chronicles 2 and its DLC, which I just transferred over but aren't in the store or downloadable on Vita), though looking at the grand unofficial list fewer than I thought.  When you go to your download list, these games show up as "Can't be downloaded to a Vita" where the "download" button is usually located when viewed on a Vita.  And they don't appear in the Vita version of the PS Store at all as games that can be purchased.  To play these games, you HAVE to download them first to your PS3, leave them on the XMB in "bubble" form, hook your Vita up to your PS3 through its USB power cable, and then use the Vita to transfer the files through its content management program.

Oh yeah, and while you're transferring these files, the Vita is not drawing power from the PS3 so you could conceivably run out of battery power doing this.  I've only transferred a few files at a time and I keep my Vita hooked up to its charger at nearly all times so I haven't run into that problem yet, but it's truly a brilliant situation Sony's created here.

EDIT:  OK, it seems I need to make a major correction here, and it actually makes the situation worse.  Starting tomorrow, I'm going on vacation with my family for a week, so I thought while I was still up and not doing much that I would transfer my Resistance Retribution PSP game over to my Vita instead of Dissidia 012.  After all, I'd already transferred my original save for the game over yesterday.  I thought Dissidia was one of the locked games as well, but apparently you can download that from the store.  Apparently, that's not going to happen, because Resistance (one of the games you can't download to the Vita) also can't be transferred through the content manager at the moment.  I don't know if the PS1 games can, as I don't have any in "bubble" form at the moment.  So apparently, if you can't download them to your Vita natively, it doesn't look like you can transfer them either.

Reading up on the issue, it does look like there are games that you can only transfer to your Vita through a PS3, but my "locked" games do not seem to be on the extended list as compatible games.  If Sony has any sense, they're making those remaining "locked" games work on Vita, especially the 1st party stuff like Resistance.

So despite Sony's assurances that "all your old PSP digital software will be playable from Day 1 on Vita", that is not the case at all.  You can't even work around the Vita's stubborn download refusals.  Oh joy.  Damn, I really wanted to play Resistance Retribution on vacation now that I can play it with the right analog stick as the camera... 

Good God, it's like Sony hasn't learned anything from their past mistakes. Wow. So, hypothetically speaking, if I have PS1 games installed on my PS3, I can't transfer them to the Vita unless they're in "bubble" form (meaning I'd have to redownload them again)?


Uncharted is about the only exclusive game that's making me keep my PS3. If Uncharted was a multiplatform game (the IP not owned by Sony), I'd sell my PS3 immediately and buy an Xbox 360 instead.

[Chozo Ghost]

There's no reason you can't own a PS3 and a 360. I admit there is a lot of over lap between the two and if you don't have a lot of money to throw around it probably makes more sense to just own one or the other, but there are some exclusives you will end up missing out on by only having one.

[Fatty The Hutt]

There's no reason you can't own a PS3 and a 360. ...
there are some exclusives you will end up missing out on by only having one.

Naw, reaaly?
Yer blowin' my mind here, choz

[tendoboy1984]

Ken Kutaragi left (or fled or whatever) Sony soon after the PS3 launched. The PS4 will be Sony's first console without Kutaragi and his input, but we can already see from the Vita that whoever is now pulling the strings over at Sony seems to have the same mentality that power is more important than affordability.

That quote from Kaz Hirai from 2009 (which was only 3 years ago) is consistent with what we are seeing from the Vita, so it seems not at all unlikely that the PS4 will be a similarly powerful and expensive piece of hardware which will struggle to see adoption by both consumers and developers alike until price drops take effect.

The board of directors actually "promoted" Kutaragi after the PS3 launched, essentially taking him away from his position of overseeing PlayStation hardware development.

[tendoboy1984]

There's no reason you can't own a PS3 and a 360. I admit there is a lot of over lap between the two and if you don't have a lot of money to throw around it probably makes more sense to just own one or the other, but there are some exclusives you will end up missing out on by only having one.

Money, my dear friend. I already have a hard enough time keeping up with the Wii, 3DS and PS3.


Plus I don't really have the time or patience to handle 3 different consoles and all the games I have.

[Louieturkey]

Uncharted is about the only exclusive game that's making me keep my PS3. If Uncharted was a multiplatform game (the IP not owned by Sony), I'd sell my PS3 immediately and buy an Xbox 360 instead.

I have a feeling you'll enjoy The Last of Us when it releases.

[Ymeegod]

TOKYO, May 10 (Xinhua) -- Sony Corp. reported Thursday the biggest-ever group net loss of 456.66 billion yen (about 5.72 billion U.S. dollars) in 2011 fiscal year and vowed to return to the black in the current fiscal year.
 
The Japanese electronics and entertainment company suffered the biggest loss in its 66-year history in 2011 fiscal year, larger than the loss of 259.59 billion yen (about 3.25 billion U.S. dollars) in the previous year and the fourth straight year of red ink.
 
Sony said it expects to return to the black by strengthening its core electronics business and enhancing restructuring such as personnel and cost cuts in the current fiscal year.
 
Sony changed new president and CEO since April aiming to save the company's TV business from the more-than-expected lose.
 
Last year's flooding in Thailand and earthquake and tsunami in Japan led the Japanese electronics giant into a slump.
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So that's an net loss of 9 billion dollars for the last two years?

[Ceric]

Seriously... How can sony survive losing that much every year.

[nickmitch]

Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.

[Chozo Ghost]

Its Karma.

[TJ Spyke]

Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.

Losing $5.7 billion is just bad. No positive way to spin that.

Not in the press release, but the PlayStation division lost $2.8 billion (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-05-10-sony-playstation-division-suffers-full-year-USD2-8bn-loss?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=us-daily). Specific numbers:
*Sony's Consumer Products and Services division (PlayStation division) lost ¥229.8 billion ($2.8 billion), the previous year it made a profit of ¥10.8 billion ($135.2 million)
*Sales were down from $48.06 billion to $38.2 billion
*PlayStation 3 sales dropped from 14.3 million to 13.9 million (software sales increased from 147.9 million to 156.6 million)
*PlayStation Portable sales dropped from 8 million to 6.8 million (software sales dropped from 46.6 million to 32.2 million)
*PlayStation 2 sales dropped from 6.4 million to 4.1 million (software sales dropped from 16.4 million to 7.9 million)

[Spak-Spang]

So the question is what direction does Sony go?  Obviously, they said they want a strength their core products, and they are definitely keeping with video games, but has Sony been in the black with video games?  I honestly don't know.  I know the PS2 did very well...but it also sold at a lose at first. 

It doesn't really matter.  I hope Sony the best of luck...but I wouldn't mind it if they dropped out of the console market and let another new comer take that 3rd spot.  MS is pretty good and aren't crazy arrogant yet.  Nintendo has been knocked down long ago...but are slowly healing.  I would love to see a newcomer with a different approach to games enter the market and see how they can shape things up.

[nickmitch]

Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.

Losing $5.7 billion is just bad. No positive way to spin that.

What I was saying is that while they have negative cash flows (which is bad), it's not as high as $5.7billion. I was answering Ceric's question. That's how companies can lose so much and stick around. It's all about cash flows.

[Chozo Ghost]

MS is pretty good and aren't crazy arrogant yet.

Microsoft entered the video game market crazy arrogant. Remember this is the company that had illegally monopolized the computer industry for years. They entered the video game industry hoping to do to everyone's living rooms what they had already done to everyone's computer.... you might even go as far as to say crazy arrogance is the reason they even got involved in video games in the first place.

[broodwars]

Personally, I like the triumvirate we have right now.  Microsoft pushes online, multiplayer, and media integration advances; Sony seems to have the best variety of experiences, has this tendency to pick up these weird little art projects, and they're the standard-bearer for pushing the technical boundary of console gaming; and Nintendo pushes a lot of more "classic"/"retro" experiences, interface advances, and odd hardware gimmicks.  In their own weird way, the 3 complement each other well.  It'd be a pity to lose any one of them.

IMO, I think Sony needs to start gutting some of their electronic divisions since I believe those have been the heaviest anchors on their finances for the last few years.  With the way the economy has been, people just really aren't buying expensive televisions anymore (especially for 3D, a fad I'm glad seems to be slowly dying out again in relevance).  Meanwhile, they've invested a lot of money into Vita that's not paying them any dividends at the moment because there isn't a steady flow of games and necessary components of the experience (i.e. the memory cards) are way too expensive.  Those who have Vitas have little to play on them, and those who don't don't see a reason to buy them yet (especially because of all the costs).  Hirai has been on record saying he wants to refocus the company on its gaming division, which I think is the right call but they need to cut the dead weight if they want to make any headway.