Topic: Mafia XXXII: FINALE

[ShyGuy]

Stratos was definitely MVP this game. Khush tried to be too smart by implicating his own Godfather. Maxi let everything slip early. Rabicle didn't stand a chance.

[BeautifulShy]

Yeah after I was outed I basically played like a townie with my PMs.

[BeautifulShy]

I think after Khush was gone it was easier for the townies.There wasn't someone being loud and deceptive.

[NWR_pap64]

You know what's great? In my first Mafia game I was killed off on the first day. But in my second game I win!

[Mop it up]

Well isn't that lipstick in the eye. I have no idea how Stratos knew who I was, it didn't seem like anyone suspected me of anything. Then again, I was pretty clueless about what was going on, so maybe I just didn't notice something. In fact, I still don't know what's going on.

So, yeah, for the love of all that is good and clean, can somebody kindly explain what in the world just went on here this past week?

As the Purple Birdo would say, "If I had something down there, you could all SUCK IT!"

Anyways, good job hosting DrewMG.

I don't think the roles were unbalanced, I think the problem is, word got around who the Mafia was too quickly. As soon as everyone knows who the Mafia is, it is over for them. I'm still not sure exactly how this happened or who did it, but what I am sure of is that it happened through PMs. It sounds like Maxi gave away a lot, I'm not sure if this happened before or after he was out of the game though because he was being a poor sport about it.

I think it is boring to just say "vote [name]", so I tried to get into character and make a comment or two. However, since most other people were just saying "vote [name]", there wasn't anything to go on really.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised at how much of this game is took place via PMs. I think it would be better if everyone tried to stick with posting in the daily thread, it would make things more interesting. It would have more suspense and surprise too because then everyone wouldn't be trying to find out roles through PMs or be giving out what their role or somebody else's role is. We'd all find out at the same time.

Just a first-timer's impression of this game.

It's been fun people, hope to see you all next game... because confusion is fun. For now, I can go back to my lovely regular author icon.

[Khushrenada]

Khush while that was a good plan as far as I know at that point the bomber wasn't known at that point. You could have blown up your entire team with a vote like that.

I knew enough safe votes that we would have been fine. By the time I died, I and the mafia knew all the townie roles and we had the bomber down to 4 suspects and yes, Stratos was one of those suspects but he was the one I suspected least at that point. Le sigh.

The reason I wanted Decoyman dead was because Maxi was blabbing his head off and telling people who the mafia were. That post by Vudu was what we were hoping to avoid getting out. I had no idea how incriminating it was or if it named members of the mafia. Maxi just tole me he had told some people who the mafia were. Vudu was going to be hit as well since he had received that message. But when Dasmos wasn't interested in going along with the plan I came up with, we didn't want to leave the Bros. alive for fear Maxi would blab again the next day. Looking back at Day 3, my plan probably would have worked.


I wouldn't say the game was terribly unbalanced. But for a role as crucial as the mole, I would have made sure that it went to a more veteran player. For instance, when I host, if a new player comes up as godfather, I'll choose a different name. It could be that the player is a veteran on other boards and has played the game many times but I don't know that and the Godfather is an important role in the game since he decides the mafia hits. Once a player has had a couple games, then I say he's fair game. You can't hold people back forever. Thatguy did the same thing with his T-Rex role in his mafia game. I'm not saying Maxi is a bad player but he's still learning and that was the most crucial role of the mafia. Considering what happened, it's clear Maxi wasn't sure how to handle it. He was exposed by the end of day 1. Oh well. Chalk it up to a learning experience and another step in game advancement.


At least Kashogi Stogi won another game. I told him I'd do my best to help him out.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Khush,

I assumed it was discouraged for a host to take any sort of an active role in who was assigned which roles.  I went with random.org (and mentioned that I did so several times) to make sure everyone knew that it was, in fact, completely random.

That said, I was more or less happy with the way it turned out.  Not to say I wouldn't have made some adjustments to have an "ideal" game, but for a completely random selection it didn't turn out too bad.

It was a great learning experience for me as well. 

[BeautifulShy]

Khush to be clear I didn't name the names of the mafia.I just said that every mafia member but one voted for Vudu. It was kind of vague and it was damning at the same time.The townies had to figure out who I was talking about on their own.

[decoyman]

Yeah, Maxi didn't name names. In fact, I don't like knowing things by just being told, so if I'd even seen a hint of names, I actually would've just deleted the PM, preferring to figure things out myself.

Maybe that's a silly rule I make for myself, but... yeah anyways.

Honestly, I'm disappointed that the only reason I was offed was because you thought I had been told the mafia names. Much lamer than my theory that you thought I was the bomber or something, and wanted to use me to take out two others.

[Spak-Spang]

But honestly, he did the job of the mole well.  He didn't go for the Hammer Bros win, but he did his job.

Just like the Bomber this game didn't go for the win, but for a side.  People play different ways.

[Khushrenada]

Well, at the time, I didn't know what Maxi had said and so just to be safe, I wanted those he talked to eliminatated.

All in all, it was a bit of a frustrating game in that there were steps I knew should have been taken that weren't and I even recommended them. Our plans kept get frustrated and so many mistakes were made that we just could not catch a break. I'll go into more detail of what I felt should have been our game plan.

[Spak-Spang]

What is funny is I was suspicious of Maxi for being mafia and called him out early day one.  He didn't even try to say he was the good Hammer Bros or anything.  He just wanted me dead.  He did tell me if Khush was Mafia we need to eliminate him because he was dangerous.

Now, I believed Khush was the bomber, and I wanted an explosion, but I was hoping to lure the mafia into the vote as well.  So I didn't announce anything.

When Maxi told me Khush was potential mafia I decided he must be mafia trying to get rid of a townie, or trying to get a larger boom himself. 

[vudu]

Great game, I don't think it was unbalanced... the main thing that unbalances games is when people don't play their roles to win. Nothing against you, Stratos, you made a lot of townies very happy. But from a game planning and execution standpoint, it can make for some lopsided games.

This.  When people don't play to win the game balance can get pretty fucked up.  (In hindsight, I realized I mishandled the T-Rex role in Calvin & Hobbes mafia.)

[Khushrenada]

Here was my advice to GP when she asked if I had any suggestions. I kept all the pompuous stuff in it as well because it's fun to be pompous once in awhile:

Always. All you have to do is ask. Just call me Kronsteen. Actually, call me Sun Tzu. For this game, I'd like to apply some Sun-Tzu Art of War.

First off, in case you are wondering, I have been spreading the word that I am Bob-omb and people are buying it. The people who voted for me tonight were never told this lie. Those who have heard it, have believed it. They have helped spread the lie by making me look bad and I have followed their advice to get voted out. The mafia did a very foolish thing by almost all voting with me for Vudu. Nearly everyone is exposed. That is hard to come back from. Worse, Vudu could be Bob-omb. He's one of the few choices left.

Second, I believe I taught this to you before but allow me to re-iterate. This game is a logic puzzle. It is a race to solve it first. The one who does that holds the key to victory and can plot numerous strategies. "No nation has ever benefitted from a protracted war" - Sun Tzu. This is true in mafia. The longer the game goes on, the worse the mafia's chances.

We just need to keep solving identities. The best way to do so is to kill the people we don't know the identities of. That way, by the vote and by our hits, we get to the good roles faster. You'll notice that Peach's role is not listed. That's because I know who it is. And when I get you assurance that you will not hit Peach, I will reveal it to you and you alone. I gave a promise that Peach would not be harmed and truthfully, as long as no mafia member starts a bandwagon against Peach, we are safe from her power.

That means there are only 5 roles to discover out of 15 names.

You'll notice I have RAB's name as the traitor. I really don't know who the traitor is yet, but he just seemed like a good choice for now.

But now, let me talk about my plan. We have an enemy spy. Sun Tzu says: "Enemy spies, come to spy on us, must be sought out, bribed, won over, well accomadated. Then they can be employed as double agents."

I would suggest working hard right now to win over our spy. How can that be done? Admittedly, it might be tough, I can see the spy wanting to kill the godfather to gain try and gain control of the mafia. In this way, he can be assured that the mafia doesn't put out a hit on his brother and that the mafia doesn't send him off on a wrong kill.

We need to reason with the enemy spy on why he should be working to our benefit. Right now, his odds of being discovered are 1 in 5. Each innocent person knows they are innocent, so therefore they suspect the other 5. With each mafia death, that number dwindles and his chance of discovery increases. Therefore, it is in his best interest to see the mafia live. After all, if the mafia goes down, why should they aid the mole who ruined their chance at victory? I would spill the beans and bring them down with me.

Now, that we have appealed to the logic of the situation, let's try and carry it forward more. Mention the fact that we have common goals. The mafia and the Bros. want to see the death of Mario who can identify them and the doctor. If possible, it would be great to get a massive death with the bob-omb. Therefore, the mafia and the Bros. should be working together to make sure their hit orders don't collide with one another. The faster we kill off townies working together, the better both of our chances at living.

Now, to placate their desire for survival, inform the mafia that you will be using me for the hits. Thus, if something goes wrong, they won't be involved. Mention that you plan to send the expendable people on hits. Myself, who is already receiving many votes and could die at any time, followed by Maxi, whom many people seem to have uncovered as mafia. In this way, you may hopefully relieve some of their fears about getting discovered or targetted.

In this way, you may hopefully have the spy turn double agent and work with us on hits. You may even want to sweeten the deal by holding out the offer of detante. They tell you who their partner is so you do not accidently hit them. You will take the secret to the grave with you and this way, you can better cordinate together. It may not work. It may. But we must stress the importance of not weeding the mafia too soon. This will no doubt happen naturally as the game progress. It almost happened today.

But we don't let the Bros. know our true goal. To send them on a hit against Bob-omb, effectively getting rid of two enemies at once. Again, if we can use the Bros to help speed up the townie deaths, we must take advantage of that situation. At the same time, we don't want to lose real mafia members. I'm a real member. I'm pretty sure Maxi is also. I think you would be too. Therefore, that just leaves Mop it up, Nickmitch and RAB. At this point, I'd lean towards RAB. Not to mention, he hasn't shown up yet. That is who I would send on the hits in the meantime. Once Bob-omb and Bros are gone, Bowser would go on every hit to make sure no one is lost to Mario. In this way, the mafia is protected. It is the gold strategy.

You are going to have to play cruelly to be Godfather and kill people that you may not want to kill or think is fair. Pap64 would be one of those but he since he voted with us, I would keep him. I always like to keep the townies who vote with us and kill the troublemakers. My vote would be to hit SirSniffy, Stevey or Dasmos.

So, that was my strategy. Obviously, there were some kinks to work out. Maxi was the traiter. I was wrong about that at the time. But look at my hit suggestions on Day 1. Mario, the townie Hammer Bros and Stevey which turned out to just be a townie. If Vudu had died, we could have been rid of Luigi as well. But instead, Spak-Spang went down becuase of some poor mafia play.

[NWR_pap64]

Forgive my bluntness, but why are people saying this game was unbalanced all of a sudden? Did the game end too soon or are people just whining that they lost sooner than expected?

[vudu]

Who says the game was unbalanced?

[NWR_DrewMG]

I suggested that maybe it was, based on the fact that the game ended early.  The consensus seems to be that it wasn't unbalanced, which makes me happy to hear.

[Stratos]

Mop it up, it was your voting pattern. Plus you were really active early on and then nearly dropped off the face of the game. That made me suspicious. The way you tried to protect GP with your vote struck me as well. Of all the mafia you were the one I was most afraid I was wrong about. Same with Rabicle, you guys tried a little too hard to casually vote to save her.

Being misled into a BFS vote that got me to want to go after the mafia. Perm being unmasked as Wario really made me feel sorry for the townies along with all their string of early losses, so I decided to fight for the townie cause.

Also kudos to the people who caught on to my cookie roleplaying on the first turn. That was my attempt to be Boshi.

I thought the game was well balanced. As with any game that involves the human mind and chance anything can happen that may be unexpected. I enjoyed your story telling DrewMG.

[Gylldas]

Woo the first time of four games i didn't get killed on day 2 and my first win to boot!!  I didn't really do too much this game other then look for clues in voting patterns.  Luckily, I fell into the townie alliance when I PM'd Stratos why he was voting for GP. 

[Mop it up]

Mop it up, it was your voting pattern. Plus you were really active early on and then nearly dropped off the face of the game.

That didn't have anything to do with my role. During the first day I just so happened to have more time to be online, while later on, not so much. I was also pressing for Vudu to be voted out in the first day because he chose Birdo. Yes, I'm petty like that. As the days went on, there were more and more people who were simply just voting, and weren't really given reasons for their votes, so there really wasn't much to say. I thought it might raise suspicion, but there wasn't really anything I could do to be more active.

My guess is, people were voting for GP because of something which was spreading through PMs, though that situation was sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" one. If I had voted for her and therefore wasn't labeled as suspicious, we weren't going to win the game anyway because the other Mafia members had still been figured out. We needed her to live so we could take out the Mario player.

I'm just happy I made it halfway through the game. That's farther than I thought I'd get.

Also kudos to the people who caught on to my cookie roleplaying on the first turn. That was my attempt to be Boshi.

I tried a little roleplay as well but it doesn't work so well when so few people are doing it.

[BeautifulShy]

Gylldas that is one of the important tools you can use when finding Mafia. In the Peanuts Mafia game when I was Mafia with Khush.He pointed out that in I believe Mafia 13 Kairon found out the Mafia based on their voting paterns.
You are learning fast Gylldas. I have a feeling you are going to be a great player down the road.
Also I loved your roleplaying this game as we as ShyGuys.

[NWR_DrewMG]

As far as roleplaying goes, it's fun and all but I'd rather see theories and accusations taking place in the main thread than roleplaying.  In other words, there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to making the games more fun to play.

BTW Khush that is some very impressing scheming.  Remind me to never play a game where we're on opposite sides again.  I already made that mistake in the Star Fox game. 

For my part, I was really hoping Khush wouldn't get voted out simply because I know for a fact that having him in the game makes the game more interesting.  The activity in the daily threads started going south once most of the usual suspects (Khush, vudu, Maxi, decoyman) were out of the game.

I kept hoping that the mafia could pull it out, but once I saw that Sniffy was investigating Rabicle after already getting Nickmitch and voting out Khush - I knew that the Mafia wasn't long for this world.

[Stratos]

Shyguy and Gylldas did some nice roleplay.

SirSniffy and ShyGuy like freaking me out by adding drama comments that cause me to PM them in a panic

Yes, Mop it up, there was a huge PM push to vote against GP. I was getting worried when Pap backed out but I kept at it and we united against our common enemy. I think I PM'd Perm 10 times telling him to log on and help vote against GP. I know he couldn't see them if he wasn't logged on but it made me feel better.

[Mop it up]

That's certainly one thing which exposed us then. I never received any such PMs about voting for GP, and people seeing me not know why people were voting for her showed that I was out of the loop. I'm sure there was more going on behind the scenes which went against me as well.

[Stratos]

I would have been out of the loop early on except Maxi started asking who I was voting for and who I thought was mafia. His constant PMing made me feel the need to PM other people and that turned into me pushing and trying to manipulate votes. I'll PM you a bunch next game so you can be in the loop as well.