Topic: Nintendo DS Interview

[idiot]

The screens will most likely face eachother, I envision it like a combination of the controls-on-the-side GBA and the clamshell SP.

My strikingly terrible mock-up: http://www.planetidiot.com/temp/newgbds.png

I don't know how I feel about this system if it isn't GBA compatible.

At least there should be room for stereo speakers and a headphone jack.

[chlupe]

I like your mock-up, Idiot -- and you should change your user name I don't wanna call someone an idiot heh.

[Retroyoshi]

hmm...  Another mockup:
NDS Design

[idiot]

I actually hope the physical borders of the screens are almost touching, so they almost seem like one screen.  That would allow for single screen type games to span both a little more nicely.

I hope developers rise to the challenge of coming up with innovative uses for the dual screens.  I could see a Metal Gear Solid type game working well on this system, with a first person and over-head view going on simultaneously.  Or a classic-style Mario game where you switch between Mario & Luigi above and under ground while the computer controls the other one.  

Developers could also use the screens as primary/secondary displays.  If you were playing Street Fighter, you could have your screen scroll away from your opponent, and look up to see where they are off screen.  Or you could have a game where the player drops a camera on the ground, and see activity in that area while you play elsewhere.  There are a lot of possibilities, but I remain skeptical about whether they will be realized and brought to life.

Something VERY cool would be to include a second set of controls and let the unit hinge away so two people facing eachother could play multiplayer, but I doubt that's the case.

[Ian Sane]

Idiot's mockup is pretty cool.  The ergonomics don't look too great but the horizontal design with the clam shell second screen seems pretty ideal.  The second mockup that Retroyoshi posted seems to use the second screen as a button interface.  That's a neat idea (I assume it's for custom controls for each game) but I don't think that's what Nintendo is doing.

I recently thought of a great game idea for this dual screen design.  It's a 2D overhead view dungeon crawler (hell make it a Zelda game) with parallel worlds like in A Link to the Past.  Each world appears in one of the screens and dungeons require you to teleport between the two worlds to solve puzzles.  You control the character in only one of the screens at a time while the other shows the equivalent point in the other world.

[PaLaDiN]

Ian Sane, did you just rip off my idea from the other thread, you shameless plagiarist?

And Bloodworth, yeah, I immediately thought the same thing.

[Ian Sane]

"Ian Sane, did you just rip off my idea from the other thread, you shameless plagiarist?"

Did I?  I thought your idea was to have the inventory on the other screen permanently.  If I did rip off your idea it was unintentional.

Edit: Further research has revealed that in fact our ideas are exactly the same.  I guess I either stole it sub-consciously or it's a coincedence.

[mylasher]

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Billy: Will the unit be backwards compatible with the Game Boy Advance or the Game Boy?

Beth: We haven’t announced anything about that, yet."

--------------------

Uh, PSP plays PS1 games, right?

I may be living in a fantasy world, but what if DS could play our old N64, SNES, NES, GB and/or VB* games?  It does have two processors and two screens...maybe one processor is 2D and the other is 3D?

( *Yes, I still have my Virtual Boy. )

[PaLaDiN]

Hehe... It's probably just an indication of how cool that idea is.

Come to think of it, now that I have it in mind I'm gonna be disappointed if Nintendo lets it slip by.

[jasonditz]

While we're coming up with inappropriate names, what if we call it the "Nintendo Tallboy"?

[Ian Sane]

"Uh, PSP plays PS1 games, right?"

Nope.  It uses it's own unique medium.  PS1 discs won't even fit in it.

The problem with making the DS support all those formats is that it would make the system huge to accomadate the various non compatible cartridge slots.  The GBA can play old Gameboy games because the cartridge inputs are identical thus requiring only one slot.

I'm beginning to think that this will play GBA games but it will be more like the GBC than the GBA.  The GBA is a completely new format but the GBC was more like an upgrade.  Some games were GBC only but a lot of them could also be played on the old GB.  Maybe the DS will be more like that where most games are playable on the GBA as well but special dual screen games work on the DS only and some GBA games are enhanced on the DS.  Therefore it's not really regarded as a total replacement because a lot of games released will still work on the old GBA.

[vudu]

if a game released for the ds is also able to be played on the gba, then the addition of a second screen would seem more of a gimmick than anything else.  

ie, if the second screen isn't crutial to gameplay, why would you purchase a second system so you could play the game?  and if it is crutial, how would you be able to play the game on gba?

[idiot]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Uh, PSP plays PS1 games, right?"

I'm beginning to think that this will play GBA games but it will be more like the GBC than the GBA.  The GBA is a completely new format but the GBC was more like an upgrade.  Some games were GBC only but a lot of them could also be played on the old GB.  Maybe the DS will be more like that where most games are playable on the GBA as well but special dual screen games work on the DS only and some GBA games are enhanced on the DS.  Therefore it's not really regarded as a total replacement because a lot of games released will still work on the old GBA.

But they seem to be pushing this as a third system, not an upgrade.  I have a bad feeling someone high up will say "we don't want this to be a gameboy with two screens, it's a new and different system," and axe backward compatibility.  It's a cool idea by itself, but if that's all there is, it's just a neat gimmick, like the virtual boy.  If so, I'll happily buy one in the bargin bin for $30.

They need to look at it from a consumer perspective: Why would I want another portable?  Well, if it could link up to the current Game Boys for multiplayer, offered new and unique content and a major graphics improvement comparible to (or preferably exceeding) the PSP, then yeah, I *might* buy it.  The might hinges on that new and unique content.  What makes it must-have?  I don't have a couple hundred dollars to throw around.

But when I take a trip now, I take my GP32.  I can do a lot more with it than with a game machine (music, videos, emulation, etc).  These days I only play GBA games on the Gamecube.  

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: kingvudu
if a game released for the ds is also able to be played on the gba, then the addition of a second screen would seem more of a gimmick than anything else.

Do you see something wrong with this?  The DS hardware is going to be superior to that of the GBA's, so if you could play a developed game on the GBA, then the company didn't use the DS development kit in the first place...

[vudu]

i was arguing the same thing, only without the technology perspective.

nintendo is talking about the unique gameplay that can be had with the ds.  so if ds games were playable on a gba (minus the second screen) the unique additions must not be essential to gameplay.  you could definitely do this if the second screen merely functioned as a map or something similar, but if it's meant to change the way games are played, it's going to be impossible for ds games to be played on the gba.

[Bill Aurion]

Woah, wait a second...Where was it said that the GBA may be able to play DS games?  That would undermine the point of getting the DS in the first place...Why shell out the cash to get a new system when you can play that system's games on your current one?

If anything, the DS may be able to play GBA games, but nothing more...

[jasonditz]

That wouldn't make sense at any rate. The DS has two processors... the code produced for it would be wholly incompatible with the GBA.

[Ian Sane]

"if a game released for the ds is also able to be played on the gba, then the addition of a second screen would seem more of a gimmick than anything else."

I said SOME DS games would be playable on the GBA not all.  The truly innovative ones would require the second screen but the simpler ones that use the second screen for a map or a rear-view in a racing game would work on the GBA in a scaled down mode.  If you want to play the real game you still need the DS.  It's like how Link's Awakening DX and Pokemon Gold are playable on an old Gameboy but if you're playing like that you're not playing as it was meant to be played.

The idea is that a console that plays only two screen games likely isn't going to take off without the inclusion of one screen games.  If the DS has one screen games it replaces the GBA because third parties can make better one screen games on the DS hardware.  If the DS is backwards compatible it replaces the GBA for obvious reasons.  My suggestion/speculation is a stop-gap approach where Nintendo is to some extent able to keep the two portables alive and promoted as serperate products.

One thing I've been thinking about is the size of this thing.  Is it being designed as a portable that you can carry around everywhere or is it more like the Virtual Boy in that it has it's own screen but is meant for home use?

[RealmRPGer]

Reading that article made me think of something: Since the PSP will use optical disks, it will be a lot like a CD Player...and what are portable CD players known for? Skipping. This means that the PSP will either have even WORSE loading times and BAD streaming sound/music, or will use up EXTRA battery power to stop that from happening. Ouch.

EDIT: Okay, to those of you with those GBA compatibility thoughts. Look at it on the TECHNICAL side. For one, any games using the MAIN screen(ARM9) would NOT AT ALL be playable on a GBA. The GBA uses a processor comparible to the ARM7. So, if ANYTHING, the only part of a DS game taht could be played on the GBA would be the sub-screen, aka the screen "that displays the menu." THIS one point also brings up an interesting point, however. The second screen uses a processor very similar to the GBA. This processor could, in fact, actually be an exact duplicate of the GBA's, allowing back-compatibility. In fact, nowhere does it say that each processor is for a DIFFERENT screen(I don't believe so, anyway). This could mean that the second processor is SOLELY intended for GBA emulation. I doubt this, but at the same time I want it. After-all, if each screen uses a seperate processor, it would be hard to make games that use both screens as one. For reference, I'll just compare the two screens to being able to use 3D and 2D. The main screen uses 3D and the sub-screen uses 2D. The only games using both screens at once would have to be very GBA-like...But that wouldn't matter for, say, TRUE SNES ports(the current ones, remember, are modified because the screen is too small). This is why I truly hope that the ARM9 has the ability to process for both screens.

Upon finishing this post, I realize how much having technical knowledge can be both a help and a hinderance, destroying dreams...

But I am VERY glad to hear about those cartridge specs. That means we may be seeing N64 ports on the DS. Even if it's supposed to be a 2D console, that won't stop some companies from creating 3D chips(like Capcom did for the SNES). I doubt it will be solely 2D, though. That kind of space and power is TRULY overkill on a 2D system.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I'm beginning to think that this will play GBA games but it will be more like the GBC than the GBA.  The GBA is a completely new format but the GBC was more like an upgrade.  Some games were GBC only but a lot of them could also be played on the old GB.  Maybe the DS will be more like that where most games are playable on the GBA as well but special dual screen games work on the DS only and some GBA games are enhanced on the DS.  Therefore it's not really regarded as a total replacement because a lot of games released will still work on the old GBA.

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
Woah, wait a second...Where was it said that the GBA may be able to play DS games?  That would undermine the point of getting the DS in the first place...Why shell out the cash to get a new system when you can play that system's games on your current one?

 nice going, ian sane...you've started a rumor that is sure to stick with the pgc forums for quite some time.    

[GoldShadow1]

I find it amusing how Beth totally misses Billy's sarcasm here:

"Billy:  I think Nintendo should bring back the “open door policy” they’ve always had with the flow of information.
Beth:  Uh-huh, yes.  And when did we have that?  (laughs)"

[GaimeGuy]

I can't help but believe that  the DS is really the successor to the GBA.  After all,  yesterday's  interview at gamespot  revealed that it has a subprocessor identical to the GBA's.    That's pretty damn similar to how  PS1 games are  playable on the Ps2 (the Ps1 processor  is implemented inside of the Ps2),  so  I don't see any reason to have the GBA's processor in the DS other than for this reason.   Keep in mind,   Iwata said this device would take advantage of existing software,  so  it probably will be able to play GBA carts, from what's been revealed so far.   The GBA will be like the PSOne:  still getting support, but  it's games will be playable  on the newer DS hardware, as well.

The   Zelda-dungeon idea is one out of  many   new dimensions this  device opens up.   It's quite ingenious, but  at the same time, I can't help but think, "Now why didn't anyone think of this earlier?"

Yeah, we barely know anything about it, but I like what's been revealed about the DS.  A lot.

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
I find it amusing how Beth totally misses Billy's sarcasm here:

"Billy:  I think Nintendo should bring back the “open door policy” they’ve always had with the flow of information.
Beth:  Uh-huh, yes.  And when did we have that?  (laughs)"

Did it occur to you that she may have been playing along with it?  

[Stimutacs Addict]

i like the idea of one screen used for 3D and one for 2D.

Nintendo's own example (of a soccer game) would fit the 2d/3d possibilities... think about it: you see the field on the secondary (2d) screen, and you see your player in full 3d on the primary screen


that'd be sweet



now, i just hope it has more than 2 face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons

[jasonditz]

sports would be interesting, but 3d on a 3" screen might be hard to appreciate.

Seems like a better solution would be a GC/GBA link cable for that kind of view.