Author Topic: Rate the last movie you've seen  (Read 1553735 times)

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5400 on: December 15, 2016, 10:39:36 PM »
That was the same thing lots of people said about Kubo. Reminded them of TLoZ.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5401 on: December 15, 2016, 10:48:41 PM »
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - 9/10
It's somehow a spin-off and the most direct prequel to any Star Wars movie there's ever been. Somehow they get you to care about a group of people that are all completely brand new, which sucks, because they all die. Everyone. I don't want to get too into it, the story is pretty predictable, because if you've seen any Star Wars movie, then you know what the plot is, though you may not realize that the ending literally takes place aeemingly moments before A New Hope starts. I will say though, given the small amount of screen time Darth Vader has (3 scenes...4 I guess if you count the first scene he's in) - this movie has the best version of Darth Vader in any movie. His final scene is basically the movie version of playing as Darth Vader in The Force Unleashed games - force pushing, force throwing, force raising (and then slicing in half with his lightsaber). It's a pretty short scene, but it is simply badass. There are some CGI character cameos which are a little disappointing (on a huge screen at least, they'll probably get reworked before the Blu-ray release), but if you don't pay too much attention (because you have to know that they are CGI, given that A New Hope came out 39 years ago), then they're probably pretty convincing.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 10:53:09 PM by Brandogg »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5402 on: December 15, 2016, 10:52:42 PM »
As someone who's not really a Star Wars fan, should I see this in the theater?

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5403 on: December 15, 2016, 11:10:07 PM »
I gave TFA a miss in the theatres and I don't regret it. It was so incredibly overhyped and quite frankly not that good. I am going to place Rogue One in the same box and not see it in the theatre.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5404 on: December 15, 2016, 11:49:17 PM »
I echo Brandogg's thoughts on Rogue One.  The movie starts off as feeling like it's entirely it's own thing and then slowly becomes the direct prequel you know it is by the end.  Some of the callbacks to A New Hope felt a little off.  One character at the very end just felt like she was on a separate movie reel or something.  Another cameo felt kind of unnecessary.   Lastly, I think this one is probably the funniest Star Wars movie, to me at least.  It felt like there were more jokes, but maybe it's just me.

9/10
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5405 on: December 16, 2016, 12:00:17 AM »
It's not like any other Star Wars movie, other than sharing the base material - hell, there's not even any crawling text nor the Star Wars theme song. Even the title screen just says "Rogue One." This is a war movie set in the Star Wars Galaxy. I don't know that this one needs to be seen in the theater, other than to get the experience with the audience laughing and cheering, and clapping in several scenes. It's very familiar but very, very different at the same time. I'm telling you though, it's worth the price of admission just to see Darth Vader absolutely kick some rebel alliance ass on the big screen, in my opinion.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5406 on: December 16, 2016, 06:10:47 AM »
Rogue One 6.8/10 I don't know if people watched the same movie, but this movie really lacked character development and narrative. These people do not talk to each other. They merely grunt to each other. There is nothing establishing motive or direction. If it was there, it must have been cut out. I can't find myself to enjoy the characters or sympathies with them. The trailers did a better job than the actual movie at this. It kind of reminds me of a B horror movie. You never even really get peoples names. The only new names you get out of the movie is Jin and Geilen Urso. Then there was that appalling Zombie Peter Cushing. I'm a big fan of him outside of star wars. I did not expect him being in the movie. They do a pretty good job, but it still has the uncanny valley. The voice isn't right either.

The movie does pick up though. About the time Darth Vader shows up the editing, pace, music,and everything picks up. The last half of the movie is really good. The color also returns to the movie too. I really didn't care for any of the settings before the beach scene. The Beach scene was the second best part.  The movie ends with a sacrificial blast. I feel like I've seen this before, but not sure where. The closest things that come to mind are Seeking a Friend at the End of the World, or Watchmen.  The end scene with Darth Vader being belligerent was pretty cool.

This movie would get an 8 if they had just introduced the characters better, and gave them clear motivation. It was like watching episode 3 of some show where you missed all the character development. That first half was just a mess. Tell a story! Don't just meander from scene to scene. The director did the same thing with Godzilla.

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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5407 on: December 16, 2016, 06:26:23 AM »
SPECTRE

A disappointment. It has some good action scenes. But the plot is bewildering at best. It calls back to the previous films but it does it in a way that even as someone who have watched all the the Craig films can't follow. You're constantly left wondering how did Bond know that or what's the connection? Despite this one can figure out the ending before you hit the quarter mark.

It's better than Quantum, has good jokes, but it is a big fall from SkyFall. Christopher Waltz was criminally wasted.

6/10

Yeah, I watched this recently myself. I have about the same criticism. The beginning was cool, but there was nothing left to care about afterwards. It had some nice nods to some Roger Moore Bond movies, but falls flat.

The Man with the Golden Gun
8/10. Love this movie. Christopher Lee is one of the best bond villains ever. I liked the settings, it was like a setup for a bond game. That Island would make a great multiplayer level.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5408 on: December 16, 2016, 08:12:59 AM »
You can't spoiler the whole review, that defeats the purpose. Yes, character development is light, but this is a stand-alone movie about a group that has one job, they can't all have origin stories.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5409 on: December 16, 2016, 08:58:29 PM »
I hate spoilers. I left the rating out, but I'd rather people watch a movie totally dark then know too much about it. This is an anthology movie, and these are throw away characters, but I like the idea of a Marvel approach, where this could be somebodies first experience watching something in the franchise. I want stories to be able to stand on their own.


If you compare this to The Matrix or Inglorious Basterds or even a New Hope or Force awakens at least you get a nice introduction to the characters. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there should be an info dump. This is a dirty dozen type of movie like suicide squad, but I wouldn't want them to do it Suicide Squad style. The best way to do it in this movie would have been James Bond Style. Where a superior introduces a character and gives the perspective character a light back story. It is possible some of these scenes were cut for time, but I think they are more important than some of the flashier stuff. Like I said, these characters barely talk to each other. I could imagine going for a more naturalistic way of speech in this movie, but that only works if it's established people know each other well. When Luke and Leia meet they actually have a conversation. When Neo and Trinity meet they have a conversation. We know Finn was a garbage collector because he mentioned it when he was talking to Han or Poe. I just don't this movie stands on its own. When I watched Matrix I didn't know anything about it. Hadn't seen a trailer, hadn't heard any buzz. The name just sounded cool. I was blown away, it developed characters and built a story. It has the same archetype of story. A lone person joins a rebellion. The movie stood on its own. The movie was a good movie without the need for sequels or an expanded universe. I also think that just because the characters were throwaways doesn't mean we didn't need to get to know them.  I think the movie would be more emotional if the people sacrificing themselves were not barely more than nameless drones. Visually the movie was great, but there was either problems with the writing or editing. I'm curious what the Directors original cut looks like.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5410 on: December 17, 2016, 01:23:31 PM »
Really Perm, there was only one part of your review paragraphs that needed to be spoilered: the part about the sacrificial explosion but even that is vague enough that it didn't spoil anything. I have not seen the film and I read both of your segments in full.


And your complaints are what I was most worried about for the film. I think the more Disney messes around with Star Wars, the more I become a stodgy old fart who claims that Star Wars canon closed when Disney bought the company. Only thing that holds any form of interest to me now is Rebels, but that still has it's misses.


Don't get me wrong, I'll still go and enjoy these new movies, but they won't ever hold the appeal that the EU material did. To me it feels like Christopher Tolkien sold the rights to Middle-Earth to Universal and the only "canon" to the Tolkien-verse is the Peter Jackson films.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5411 on: December 17, 2016, 11:10:11 PM »
It is better to be safe than sorry about spoilers. That's why I aggressively spoiler. I don't like it when someone lets out a little detail they thought wasn't important otherwise.

Yeah, I watched this recently myself. I have about the same criticism. The beginning was cool, but there was nothing left to care about afterwards. It had some nice nods to some Roger Moore Bond movies, but falls flat.

The Man with the Golden Gun
8/10. Love this movie. Christopher Lee is one of the best bond villains ever. I liked the settings, it was like a setup for a bond game. That Island would make a great multiplayer level.
My best Bond villain remains to be Sean Bean, like Christopher Lee he plays a villain that can equal Bond in combat, Sean easily pulls ahead because he is in a far better movie in every respect with a far more engaging plot.

Scaramanga is weird in the case he shouldn't have gotten his own movie, he is a hired gun, a right-hand man, rather than a stand alone character. That is reflected when you get to his base which even has a super-weapon, but there is nothing there, barely any people for him to command or a boss for him to report to. It really didn't make sense for him to have a base at all.

Scaramanga's final fight should have been something closer to Skyfall's fight with the assassin in the empty skyscraper. Bond isn't saving the world or fighting the Cold War, he is killing an assassin.

The Man with the Golden Gun is definitely a product of it's time where instead of what should have been a spy thriller going back to it's roots like From Russian with Love. You had to be a super villain, you had to have a super base with a super weapon that blows up, you had to push the Roger Moore period jokes, you had to have track suited minions.

It's the same sort errors SPECTRE had where it fell apart because it wanted to fit all these things in no matter how pointless or disconnected it was. They wanted all these thing in the film and they got it by throwing way almost everything they needed to make a competent film. Looking back at it now 6/10 was a too good of a score to give it. If I saw it today I would have given it a 3-4/10.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5412 on: December 18, 2016, 06:22:55 AM »
I totally get the problems with the Man with the Golden Gun. A lot of people just think it's a weird movie, and it is. My entry in interest in James Bond is through the portal of the Goldeneye game though. I like that it is a product of the Era. I never watched all the Bond movies in order though. I still haven't  seen them all. I'm almost halfway. The only Connery movie I've seen is Dr. No(once 15years ago). My access to the bond movies sucks. I should have went on a renting spree. They've been on an off cable, and then on and off Hulu and Netflix. I usually catch only a few before they get taken off wherever.

 The bond movies I tend to like are actually the campy ones. Though too goofy might be a turn off. I wasn't a fan of A View to Kill.  James Bond infiltrating a horse racing magnates mansion is not my idea of a good movie. Fun is a better way to put it. If it could happen equally in either a 60s Godzilla movie, or a James Bond movie then it probably will be entertaining to me.

I actually had the game Goldeneye, but never got a chance to watch the movie until about 4 years ago. Goldeneye is great though, because it has a good balance both fun and seriousness. I really don't care for all the other Brosnan movies. I finally got around to watching the Timothy Dalton movies. I understand Brosnan was originally going to be in the first one of these, but he had a scheduling conflict. Goldeneye, and the Living Daylights really seem like the same grouping. License to Kill seems like a Moore movie with Dalton.
What is also weird about them is they weren't at all how people described them. I expected a darker edgier Bond, but while License to Kill did take place around Florida, it was no Scarface.

As far a villains with good character development goes, Sean Beans character is really good. He is one of my favorites. His story is well developed compared to other Bond villains.

Scaramanga, is a cartoony villain. The plot-line to TMWTGG reminds me of a short story like "The Most Dangerous Game" or maybe a one off Star Trek villain. The production of a lot of bond movies rank with TV shows sometimes. Maybe you would like the idea of this story better on the small screen? You make a good case, that it is odd that he is not of the caliber of other stand alone villains.  In the back of my head I was thinking about the James Bond Code name theory. Scaramanga is like a retired James Bond gone rogue. Where do James Bonds go to die?  An island to duel!

 In a lot of ways the good Roger Moore Bond movies are self parody like Batman the TV show. I just think of them as two different things. The other reason for the love of Scaramanga is just the extension of my fanship of Christopher Lee. There is going to be some less objective Rose Colored lenses stuff going on. The guy is Dracula, Frankenstein, Saruman, Count Duku, and Lord Sumerset. I like Christoph Waltz, but he didn't blow me away this time. It also could be I watched it at 2 am on hulu and I hadn't seen anything interesting in weeks. Hard to be objective when you're bored. I was also digging the era Cinematography. Also, having watched a bunch of Bond movies, it was pretty different. That was appealing.

Ever Watch Wicker Man? The original version. Also, Wedding Crashers, and When Eight Bells Toll. These movies aren't Bond movies, but they are somewhat Bond related.

I have said in the past I prefer movies to stand on their own without the need for a franchise. On the other hand sometimes an actors work is like a franchise itself. Sometimes, experiencing an actors other work makes a movie better.  Which sounds counter-intuitive, because there is the idea that actors aren't doing their job if they aren't lost in the role.

When you force me to compare Scaramanga to Alec Trevelyan I can't safely make the case that Scaramanga is a better villain than Trevelyan. Goldeneye is definitely the better movie. Even comparing Sean Bean to Christopher Lee is interesting. What I can say is they have a lot of good roles, and they're both on Lord of the Rings.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 06:56:57 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5413 on: December 18, 2016, 07:30:48 AM »
As someone who's not really a Star Wars fan, should I see this in the theater?
Just watched it so I can answer this question for you. As a stand alone movie it is not bad. It felt original despite hitting some of those beats. It beats TFA which is a movie I just don't like for a number of reasons.

While the Perm is in some ways rightly annoyed at the lack of dialogue between characters it forced the actors to do their bloody jobs and they generally did. Unlike TFA I like these characters, they are diverse, they have their own skill set, nobody is some sort of super character. I like that they didn't over focus on the lead(Looking at you Rey so hard). TFA was bad enough that I don't care for anyone but Finn, yeah that's right I didn't care about Solo anymore.

Some of the character do feel like they came out of nowhere. like the Jenna warrior and monk. What is the deal with the monk anyway? It was sort of cheating how they included a Jedi without having a Jedi. It also had me wondering do all farmers wear the same ****?

R1 did suffer from an uneven half to 2 thirds of the movie. The middle just felt wasted and parts just felt like they were padding for time. The climax is great though but not without some small problems. During the space battle the space and time felt like it had disconnects like when they brought in the ramming corvette I was like "Where did it come from?" and "Where is everyone in relation to the shield ring"?

The Britishness isn't really there, it was so soft and was just so wrong at times. I just don't know what happened to that considering it is the trademark of one of the pivotal characters and the mark of the officers in the Empire.

The Vadar was good although his first scene was just so pointless and a waste of time. It was there just to feed the fanbois and I don't really appreciate that. He was good in all his other scenes.

The music was pretty standard fair, unlike the originals, I am not going to remember it. The sound was nice and thankfully didn't include the Wilhelm scream, because **** that, you're not clever including that.

That ended was great even if it did just repeat the Death Star shot. Kiilling everyone was original and tied off the movie so you don't have these people running around in the background in the originals. I honestly laughed  and groaned a bitwhen the Rebellion commandos setup in a position with a bunch of waist height walls like it was some sort of generic wall sticking third person shooter.

If you have played some of the Star Wars games you will get a kick when some of it makes it into the film. It was a real shame they didn't Kyle Katarn or Dash Rendar in there because I would have cracked up to no end with a **** eating grin.

There are a bunch of nitpicky stuff I could go into but it is a solid movie a like much more than TFA and it can stand mostly on it's own to feet without leaning too much on Star Wars unlike TFA.

I would score it somewhere between a 6-8/10 My feelings about it will settle over time, but to answer the question, sure why not if you can get a ticket that's not too expensive, go with your other half/friends. It's a bit better than a popcorn movie. If you have seen the other Star Wars movies it is comparitively refreshing in its originality.

I think I might have scored TFA a 5-6/10 when I saw it, but after this TFA becomes a solid 4/10. Still better than PT, but after being shamed by this movie it deserves a lower score.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5414 on: December 18, 2016, 09:40:17 AM »
Thanks oohhboy. You have motivated me to get out and see it. Sounds like this is the film we should have gotten instead of TFA.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5415 on: December 18, 2016, 09:55:48 AM »
Ugh, I should have put that through another proof reading pass. Whatever, I am tired and I don't care.

Thanks oohhboy. You have motivated me to get out and see it. Sounds like this is the film we should have gotten instead of TFA.
For sure. TFA is just another movie in a long line of movies that shows JJ is a Hack. He should stay the hell away from the camera and focus on being a producer since he did right by helping POI and WestWorld started.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5416 on: December 18, 2016, 10:23:27 PM »
A Wilhelm was indeed killed in the making of this movie. It's a bit more muted than most deaths though.

10/10 movie, if only for the T-15 line.

My brother died last week, and Star Wars was one of his absolute favorite franchises. He was unabashedly nerdy about it when he considered himself a hipster and punk in pretty much every other way. A group of his closest friends went with me to see the movie and I wept like a child at the end. While I consider myself a highly critical individual, I enjoyed the film for what it was- the only good prequel we've ever had. Sure, the characters are poorly established and some of them are overly "iconic" for lack of a better word, with extremely powerful abilities and stark designs, but the fact that everyone died at the end was a nice way of establishing the reality and horror of what the Empire was striving to achieve. Whereas The Force Awakens completely botched its "Starkiller" sequence with little to no emotional impact, the destruction of locations in Rogue One had impact literally and figuratively. I also felt the additions to the lore were valid and interesting- although we didn't have to know what powered the Death Star, a beam that cuts to the core of a planet should most certainly be powered by lightsaber crystals. The hokey weak point from A New Hope was given more weight and logic in Rogue One, which is honestly the best point of the movie and makes it a worthy addition to the canon, in my opinion.

Overall, it is most definitely fanservice. But it respects the material in a way the original prequels did not, and it tells a contained story that adds to the overarching narrative quite nicely. I would rather have stories such as these than anthology films for familiar characters, but only time will tell whether or not those films are worthy.

My brother would have loved it.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5417 on: December 18, 2016, 10:31:10 PM »
A couple between TFA vs Rogue One

Rogue One has a better Plot Line, but TFA has better execution.

Both movies drag at around the same point. Though I was madly bored at this spot in Rogue One. There was a point in Rogue One where I felt like walking out.

I felt a little more engaged throughout TFA.

There was a certain point in Rogue One where it suddenly got good, and I was thinking to myself. I wish they just started the movie here. With the reshoots I wonder who did what? It really makes you wonder because Godzilla itself was like that. Though in reverse. I was more entertained in the first half of Godzilla than the second.

Sometimes TFA dialog feels forced/unrealistic where Rogue One seems nonchalant

In TFA I felt some characters liked each other too much, for having just met.

In Rogue One I feel like characters didn't like each other too much, for having just met.

Rogue One goes to different places in the Galaxy, which is Nice. TFA just copied Tatooine and Hoth with Jaku and Starkiller base.

TFA lacks originality, R1 lacks character development.

I feel like TFA stands on it's own(but really only because it's a remake) It's like a New Hope if they talked about what's going on with Yoda the whole time.

Sometimes the scoring of Rogue One was overbearing and annoying. When people are talking they should not be overpowered by the background score. It's interesting that it's the same composer from Lost. Would it be better with the Lost Score? I can't wait till Youtube does this. I wonder how much this affected my enjoyment of the movie. I always wanted to see versions of bad movies like Batman and Robin with a better score, just to see what they're like.

A better movie would be TFAs first half and Rogue Ones second half.

Some people say Rogue One is as good as Empire Strikes back. That is crazy. Maybe if you're entirely visually oriented and have no interpersonal skills.

It will be interesting how all these movies age though. Star Wars now has 5.5 different directors, with their own takes/additions to the universe. I'm pretty excited to see what Rian Johnson is going to do with Episode 8,and what Colin Trevorrow will do with 9. I really enjoyed Looper and Safety not Guaranteed. I'm still trying to place Rogue One in the halls of Star Wars.

and even though I give Rogue One a 6. I would still go to the theater and watch it again. There is enough going on in any Star Wars movie to watch again for extended nuance. Also, speaking of WestWorld. I wonder how much it affects my objectivity watching WestWorld twice before watching Rogue One. I'm going to be in a deeper analytical mode than normal. I go from a 9.5  show to a mediocre Star Wars movie. WestWorld has the luxury of telling the story over time in serial format, but I feel like 60 minutes of WestWorld is better than 60 minutes of Rogue One.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5418 on: December 19, 2016, 12:16:41 AM »
TFA is in no way the better executed movie. It is openly belligerent to the viewer's intelligence and increasingly so closer to the end it gets. Throwing explosions at the screen is Michael Bay level of film making and it is embarrassing.

I wasn't anywhere near walking out but yeah, R1 starts a little too slow and the first third is questionable.

R1 got good when they got on with the main plotOnce she gets the message it is like a different movie as it changes gears. I like Jin over Rey so much it isn't funny(Rey is such a **** character), but the first half is following her quest. The problem is that we know what she is going to find and it doesn't get there fast enough while jumping through a few too many convenient hoops. The best example of this dragging is Forest Wikiter's character who is literally dragging air for his lines. Because they spent a little too much time on Jin they neglected the other characters.

Godzilla's problem was that they killed off the wrong person. Going from Bryan to generic white dude #55678 was a seriously bad move that hurt the movie. #55678 place in the movie was unearned and was amateur night compared to Bryan.

The characters not talking that much to each other is ok, I rather they keep the dialogue down to allow for the acting to come through than to speak too much thinking that is what acting is. The characters don't really know each other so it is understandable they don't talk that much, it is actually realistic in that sense. Think about how often you actually talk to the person on the plane next to you? Also pauses in conversations are as important as words said.

I like the banter they did have even if at times it was a little too on the nose.

The problem I did have with the characters was that the motivations weren't enunciated well enough(The warrior and the monk fall squarely into this in the beginning). It was the side effect of having a large team of people with an overly dense plot. You just can't spend that much time building them or else you would make the first half of the movie even more ponderous.

TFA IMO didn't have any character development, things happened, but the characters are 95% the same at the end  as when they started. getting good at things is not character development. R1 had no one getting better at things like it was some RPG. Character development is when they choose differently than they would have done before because their motivations have changed, they have learned new things about themselves, they are not the same person as they were before, events have impacted them on an emotionally level and has done so convincingly.

R1's characters hesitate from moral conflicts, they fail and fail even if they are morally right. They have their own agenda's that isn't given to them by some boss man or just because they caught up in the flow of events. They choose to do what they do. They aren't binary black and white choices.

R1 going to different places was so fucking nice. Everyone knows this, but **** Tatooine.

TFA doesn't stand on it's own because it unabashedly rips off everything that came before it but "Bigger!"(See Sun Sucker). What presence it does have comes heavily on nostalgia, you remove that you have nothing. R1 has Vadar's first scene which is just pointless, bad fan wank that drags out the movie. Vadar does not need to be introduced!

Vadar showing up later is damn good though. It is opposite of the rebels arriving to save the day. It does it so quickly and so effectively. "Jump to hyperspace"! Vadar arrives, ships splat against the ship like a bug on a wind shield. Him being a badass without any of that Kung Fu dance **** is so good. It doesn't fix the prequels but it certainly washes some of the flavour out of the mouth. I have to give kudos to the actors who played that scene, they really sold it and without them the scene could have been just terrible.

I honestly can't remember any of the score, maybe the mix was wrong, who knows, but it felt like it just disappeared. If there was not score during the battle I might not have consciously noticed. That said I have the same problem with TFA, so it isn't a John William problem. They might have needed to go for someone more unique as it was very generic.

Even with the first half, R1 is the better movie hands down through out. R1 made me care about what was happening. TFA I just could give a **** as to what was happening or to the characters.

R1 is in no way better than Empire, but R1 has some elements from it that people are definitely over attributing to Empire. R1 is better than 1,2,3,7. It won't be a classic like the originals, but it will be remembered fondly as that other Star Wars movie that took chances and it paid off like how Empire did.

After watch WW I am significantly less forgiving about flaws. Even without R1 clowning TFA looking back I would definitely lower my score for TFA. Part of that is because I have become so much better at spotting mistakes and I have higher expectations as to what can be achieved with characters and stories.

There is no doubt 60 minutes of WW is better than 60 of R1, but they have to use those 60 minutes differently and WW has far more time beyond that to do what it wants. However, there is no denying WW is the show of the year and there is just no competing with that to the point it is *almost* unfair to do so.

You are better off comparing R1 directly to TFA as it slams home just how over hyped TFA is and how TFA much rode on the coattails(Completely) of the previous films multiplied from such a long gap from RotJ. TFA just breaks down the more you look at it.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5419 on: December 19, 2016, 12:25:47 AM »
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought I'd share. I'll try to spoiler as much as I can:

I’m not the biggest fan of The Force Awakens. It did what it had to do, which was “remind us why Star Wars can be fun,” but there’s a number of elements that didn’t sit well with me. However, I wanted to take a look at one of the most disappointing aspects of The Force Awakens and compare it with Rogue One’s greatest strength.

The most important element of Rogue One is how it deals with the construction and destructive power of the Death Star, and the way it utilizes virtually every aspect of its narrative in order to emphasize these points. The Force Awakens uses Starkiller Base, also known as “The Death Star 2.0, 2.0” as a narrative device to connect the various threads of its characters and make sure they are all in the same place at the same time, but the way it is introduced and dealt with completely underscore the dramatic heft of such a devastating superweapon. In Rouge One, a film that takes place 34 years before the destruction of Starkiller Base, the idea of a mobile planet-killer is treated with incredible weight through various means- characters talk about the sort of fear it would impose upon the crumbling Republic, scientists weigh the morality regarding the usage of the device, and then there is the very literal, visual representation of its destructive power, highlighting the way the Death Star is able to perform precision strikes in addition to its iconic destruction of Alderaan from A New Hope.

The entirety of Rogue One is spent attempting to subvert the usage of the Death Star upon the galaxy, and it is a noble cause that doesn’t work out for everyone. This requires the Rebel Alliance’s concentrated efforts to infiltrate and extract the plans for the weapon, a plan that was touched upon in A New Hope (although, where were all the Bothans in that final sequence, anyway...? I heard a bunch of them died), which means the construction and subsequent destruction of this weapon now shapes half of the Star Wars canon- the weapon makes its appearance in Episodes II, III, and IV, and now Rogue One. So you’d think that superweapons like these would be treated with some level of severity and importance, right...?

Well, The Force Awakens would like to have a word with you.

The Starkiller Base firing sequence is so lacking in weight, it almost feels out of place in the story. Its activation occurs simultaneously with Kylo Ren’s acquisition of Rey, which packs a markedly heavier punch because of how engaging the character dialogue between her, Finn, and Solo. In fact, if you were to edit out the firing sequence, the movie would not lose much- sure, you’d miss out on Domhnall Gleeson screeching for a bit and you might not get to see Oscar Isaac do cool things in an X-Wing, but what does Starkiller Base add to the narrative of The Force Awakens? The only benefit it brings to the finale of the movie is that it gives Kylo Ren and Rey an excuse to not-make-out after she gashes his face with a lightsaber. Come on, you were hoping for it. No? It’s just me? Well, okay.

But whereas Rogue One uses its two firing sequences to highlight the cruelty and overwhelming odds the Rebel Alliance must face, and even A New Hope uses Alec Guinness’ powerful and brief commentary to deliver the crushing realization of destructive power, The Force Awakens sort of throws away its super-dee-duper-weapon, despite  the firing sequence being less showy than Rogue One or even A New Hope’s displays of destruction. The Resistance is able to create a strategy for destroying this seemingly-unknown-until-yesterday-threat ON THE SPOT, and sure, while Thermal Oscillators might be more familiar and exploitable in-universe than the Death Star’s complex construction, we have no reason to believe this is the case. Oh, and how convenient and non-Bothan-sacrificial is it that a custodial Stormtrooper happens to know about all of these interesting details.

Sure. Say it’s “The Force awakening” to make everything work out in Rey and Finn’s favor, but it reeks of laziness and a nostalgia-grab on Abram’s behalf. Where Rogue One respects the prospect and implications of a planet-destroyer, The Force Awakens expands the literal size and destructive properties of the device, but underplays its effect on the galaxy. Will we see the implications of this system-wide destruction in later films? I would argue that, to be an effective narrative device, Starkiller’s abilities should have been emphasized from the very start. While The Force Awakens re-established the status quo of the universe, it did little to bring any semblance of reality to the gravity of its conflict. Yeah, okay, the Resistance base was sure in trouble, but again, A New Hope had similar stakes and even established logical methods of revealing the Rebel Alliance’s base of operations to the Empire, something The Force Awakens lacked.

To make a long, long rant short, was I entirely fond of Rogue One, and did I even appreciate its glorified and literal representations of the Death Star firing sequences? Not really. But the film also did an exceptional job at- excuse me, Alex Matthew- world building from the very start: having characters discuss the destructive capabilities early on in the film and centralizing its narrative on that aspect, while adding references to The Force and the Jedi throughout. The Force Awakens had the opportunity to tell a reverse narrative, one of Jedi re-establishing themselves in the galaxy and, you know, The Force awakening, but chose to toss in a bigger, badder Death Star rather lazily in the middle of its second act. While its destructive capabilities were certainly more impressive, it never delivered on its danger in a satisfying manner, and I would argue that a larger Death Star would have more impact if it had been a threat over the course of more than one movie- after all, we know the main Star Wars films do not have to tell a concise narrative because they come in trilogies. Still, Rogue One did a better job of displaying the might of a superweapon without even having to destroy a single planet- and Starkiller Base did not manage to do so despite destroying five.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 12:28:17 AM by Evan_B »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5420 on: December 19, 2016, 01:22:49 AM »
I completely I agree with you Even_b. One small correction. The Bothans died for the second Death Star plans, not the first, that's why you got confused there.

R1 also had some very cool and good imagery of the Death Star and it uses the destruction to full effect. It doesn't for a moment waste the spectacle. It was beautiful in it's horror.That line did not need to be said, that was definitely a mistake. It doesn't cut away, it lets you take it in.

You are fully aware of the consequences. The Sun Sucker blows up planets, but as you said there is no weight. Who the **** cares. While removing the Sun Sucker would have helped, TFA is fundamentally flawed from the start to finish. No amount of editing is going to change that. It would require throwing out the movie whole sale declaring it persona non grata.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5421 on: December 19, 2016, 01:45:48 AM »
How would you compare R1 to Inglorious Basterds?

Also, what do you think about the possibility of Finn being a deep deep cover operative? If his objectives are to "do whatever it takes to get to Luke Skywalker and kill him" then that adds a layer of complexity. You can never trust anyone defecting from an organization.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 01:56:59 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5422 on: December 19, 2016, 02:07:38 AM »
Damn! I want a Bothan anthology film now.

I think that would be an interesting angle, but unlikely. The innocence of Luke'a perspective and desires are what allowed viewers to get into the original trilogy, I assume Finn and his unapologetic friendships with Rey and Poe are going to drive the new trilogy. Can't have such a likeable character going all Fate of the Furious on folks.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 02:10:30 AM by Evan_B »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5423 on: December 19, 2016, 02:58:23 AM »
How would you compare R1 to Inglorious Basterds?

Also, what do you think about the possibility of Finn being a deep deep cover operative? If his objectives are to "do whatever it takes to get to Luke Skywalker and kill him" then that adds a layer of complexity. You can never trust anyone defecting from an organization.
I don't see how any undercover operative can ever be worth that kind of damage. It would also be stupid like Cortana turning on everyone in Halo 5(?). It would be the kind of **** m. night shyamalan would do.

Inglorious Bastard has several advantages that makes it the superior film by far.

Even though there are several plot lines running concurrently, each line are quite simple and exists for the actors to chew the scenery in character. The complexity comes from the interaction of the character rather than from the plot itself like Spectre where it was convoluted and ultimately pointless where the characters are just moving place to place just because plot makes them.

It had a large amount of unabashed violence that was very personal. R1 racked up a good body count so it isn't as great of an advantage, but it is still there. R1 is also comparability realistic for a Star Wars movie plot armour isn't really strong, they get in some small fights, but a lot of the time they use actual cover and leaving it gets people any and everyone killed. Once you realise no one is safe it gets real, you hope some one would make it out, but it doesn't happen and you feel that loss.

Length.Going back to the plot, it had enough running time to work with all the characters. A number of characters were sidelined appropriately instead of trying to force more events to happen. You would think the Bastards themselves would have more screen time with a lot more killing but nope. It was a mild bait and switch that allowed some more human characters to shine.

A much higher calibre of actors and director. Taratino knew what he wanted and got it with no regrets. He didn't have higher ups breathing down his neck nor the baggage of working within an existing franchise. He knew how to use silence for tension and to make the flow of conversation natural. He also wasn't trying to be overly clever with it.

The special effects were more old school making it a lot more real oppose to computer generated hits. This is also true with OG Star Wars where you see holes blown into Storm Trooper armour and Leia taking a very visible hit. these thing are somewhat missing in TFA and R1.

R1 has the advantage of being able to make things out of whole cloth while Inglorious has to stick to period accurate everything. There are elements of R1 they can't change like Storm Trooper looks, X-Wings, Y wings and all those staples, but can work in new things that you having seen before in SW.

There is a something I noticed about the Death Star until now. It is too accurate. I know the second shot was off the mark, but the Death Star wasn't very accurate compared to DS2. It is sort of a nice carry forward from RotJ where it could target ships.

I can see why you want to make the comparison, but it is only so in a fairly shallow sense. R1 is more of a normal movie while IG is closer to a play. Taratino goes all the way with this in Hateful 8 where you could convert it into a play almost completely.

R1 did the right thing by making sure it was a decent movie first rather than Star Wars for the sake of it like TFA. If it didn't have Star Wars it would still be an enjoyable movie because it has good fundamentals.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Rate the last movie you've seen
« Reply #5424 on: December 20, 2016, 02:18:09 AM »
I'd just like to say that I don't think Rogue One is a great film. It is a well-made film, developed by professionals. What it lacks in originality, it makes up for in world-building and diversifying character types. The Force Awakens has a diverse cast... of humans... but it also lacks in originality and squanders its third act. Rogue One has a bad first and second act, but its third act is pretty great.
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