Topic: Official Sales Thread

[Kairon]

I don't think any significant portion of the gaming media "hates" Nintendo. Not everyone is a huge fan of theirs, and not everyone keeps up with every little detail about them, but I sincerely doubt any of them have any kind of malicious intent with it. People have their own personal tastes, and they tend to gravitate toward them.

How come sometimes it feels like so few people's tastes include the sorts of games one can find on Nintendo systems?

i.e. games that got "Not Recommended...except for Kairon" (a real category we had on this site at one time) ratings?      The Wii got plenty of those this generation.

I have no regrets!

[ejamer]

I have nothing against bias. Everyone has their own opinions and that's fine.


What gets to me is how acceptable is has become in some outlets to openly mock Nintendo and any gamer who enjoys their products.  In much of gaming media you see 360/PS3 treated with at least some respect while Nintendo is discussed with barely veiled derision - assuming it gets discussed at all, or without complete ignorance showing through. Then I check the related online forums and am reminded of elementary school, where a couple of people dictate what is supposedly "cool" and anyone who doesn't jump on board gets persecuted.


That type of console elitism doesn't sit well with me, and has been enough for me to fully write-off more than one source of gaming news and information.  It's also why I like RFN so much: because they appear to enjoy games first, without any care for what platform the game is provided on.

[Ian Sane]

There is somewhat of a gamer culture on the internet and Nintendo gets a rough time (both unfairly and fairly) because they have done a great job of distancing themselves from it.  Sticking with cartridges on the N64, being incredibly resistant to making games with mature themes in them, not going online on the Gamecube, not offering demos, sticking with an inhouse proganda magazine for so long when no longer made sense to, repeatedly making such a weak or incompetent effort to attract decent third party support.

Nintendo is the sort of company that can put a man on the moon but can't drive him across town.  They routinely **** up the little things that any idiot could get right.  As a result, they're out-of-touch with gamer culture.  We who follow the game industry and know its history know our stuff and when Nintendo feeds us nonsense like friend codes we know they are full of ****.  We know there is no reason to do it that way.  We know how they can and should do it.  When Nintendo goofs that stuff up they distance themselves from gamer culture.  Since the N64 I have found one has to be very open-minded to appreciate Nintendo for all the things they're good at and not reject them over the incredibly stupid ones.  You can't expect the majority of gamer culture, on the message boards and on the different gaming sites to be that open minded.

And then you have the Wii.  Intentionally out-of-date hardware, wonky controls and an intentional effort to attract people from outside gamer culture.  The Wii is like the exact opposite of what probably a good 90% of the internet gamer culture wanted out of a videogame system.  And the casual thing is the worst.  No one who is part of subculture wants the mainstream to invade.  The mainstream doesn't join you, it steals away your hobby.  Nintendo attracted considerable wrath for targetting casuals and non-gamers as their success at that was essentially a threat to the existing gamer culture.  The Wii gave the impression not only that they didn't care about gamer culture but that they were going to steal away our hobby and give it to someone else.  The worst case scenario would be if they succeeded so well that the whole industry switches to focusing on casuals and then nobody is making games for gamers anymore.  When faced with that possibility you can't blame the gaming media for being somewhat hostile towards Nintendo.  Notice the hostility towards stuff like Angry Birds?  Same thing.  Casuals love it so it's a threat.

I also think the "Nintendo is going third party" thing is wishful thinking.  Most people recognize Nintendo as being a talented developer and most of their annoying traits are as a console maker.  Remove the console and there is no dumb Nintendo bullshit, just them making great games on a console that some else already got right.  It's also a way to re-unite Nintendo and third parties like the NES/SNES days.

[Kairon]

There is somewhat of a gamer culture on the internet and Nintendo gets a rough time (both unfairly and fairly) because they have done a great job of distancing themselves from it.

I think that's about right. There's a lot of stuff that Nintendo does deserve criticism for outright, but I do also think that Nintendo's non-conformity to the values and tenets of this so-called gamer subculture also makes them an easy target for less deserved negativity.

sticking with an inhouse proganda magazine for so long when no longer made sense to

You take that back! Nintendo Power rocks, has always rocked, and will always rock! T_T

Since the N64 I have found one has to be very open-minded to appreciate Nintendo for all the things they're good at and not reject them over the incredibly stupid ones.

Heh, I find much the same is true with people.

No one who is part of subculture wants the mainstream to invade.  The mainstream doesn't join you, it steals away your hobby.  Nintendo attracted considerable wrath for targetting casuals and non-gamers as their success at that was essentially a threat to the existing gamer culture.  The Wii gave the impression not only that they didn't care about gamer culture but that they were going to steal away our hobby and give it to someone else.  The worst case scenario would be if they succeeded so well that the whole industry switches to focusing on casuals and then nobody is making games for gamers anymore.

Now this is a worldview I cannot agree with. My stance is to be inclusive and welcoming. I am absolutely not afraid of a future where I am playing videogames, my parents are playing videogames, my nieces are playing videogames, and my grandparents are playing videogames. Nintendo has always said they made games for gamers aged 2 to 92 and I still hold to that.

Most people recognize Nintendo as being a talented developer and most of their annoying traits are as a console maker.  Remove the console and there is no dumb Nintendo bullshit, just them making great games on a console that some else already got right.

Yeah I can see that. But I am a strong believer that Nintendo makes great games BECAUSE they make hardware that allows them to achieve that coveted Nintendo difference. That's not because they make perfect hardware, but because their gameplay innovations are as much a matter of hardware as they are software. The Nintendo difference starts with the Nintendo console.

[ThomasO]

but that they were going to steal away our hobby and give it to someone else.

Entitled, much?

[Enner]

but that they were going to steal away our hobby and give it to someone else.

Entitled, much?

Ah, the problem of the internet. That, and "I want my opinion parroted back at me to validate myself, and I will not accept anything else."

[Kairon]

It's not just an internet problem. It's a people problem. I agree with Ian that it's a tall order to expect all people to be open-minded about all the rapid changes in their video gaming world.

[ejamer]

Agree with nearly everything said in the last couple of posts - especially the fact that Nintendo does deserve to have their numerous shortcomings pointed out and laughed at.  Another reason that I like the RFN crew and the forums here in general: because people generally don't hesitate to point out when things obviously could (and should) have been done better.

[Ian Sane]

Now this is a worldview I cannot agree with. My stance is to be inclusive and welcoming. I am absolutely not afraid of a future where I am playing videogames, my parents are playing videogames, my nieces are playing videogames, and my grandparents are playing videogames. Nintendo has always said they made games for gamers aged 2 to 92 and I still hold to that.

I have no problem with anyone engaging in the same hobbies that I do.  But I do have a beef if the hobby changes to attract them.  My idea is that videogames are videogames and if somone doesn't like them or have arbitrarily decided they don't, then they should find something else that interests them.  Videogames should not CHANGE to accomodate anyone who doesn't like them in the first place.  THAT is "invading" a hobby. 
 
Now having a sort of trojan horse to "trick" a close-minded person from giving videogames a fair shake is fine.  With the Wii Series it was kind of like Nintendo had made a different type of game to attract non-gamers, like Wii Sports would not have been what it was if it just made for the existing gamer culture.  Can you see why that would come across as threatening?  It isn't just a new group, it's a new audience that has had a unique product designed specifically for them.  So are they going to change all of our games to something they like?  And it isn't like Wii Sports brought them in and they're now playing Atlus games.
 
I like football and hockey.  I don't like soccer.  I have never for a second made any serious suggestion that soccer change to attract my interest.  Soccer is soccer and the people who like it, like it for what it is.  Soccer fans would not care if I joined their culture.  They would however dislike it if FIFA drastically altered the rules of soccer to attract my interest, a guy who doesn't like soccer in the first place.  I wouldn't be joining soccer culture I would be invading it, taking it over and turning it in what *I*, who never liked soccer in the first place and don't have any emotional connection to it, want it to be.  Those that care see something that matters to them changed to please someone else who never cared in the first place.
 
You're being pretty ridiculous if you stop liking a band because they've become popular.  You're not out of line however if the band has changed their sound specifically to attract an audience that never liked their music in the first place.
 
Anyone is welcome to play videogames with me, but no one is welcome to TAKE videogames from me.  See the difference?  See how one could create the whole "us vs. them" core gamer/non-gamer rift?

[Mop it up]

My idea is that videogames are videogames and if somone doesn't like them or have arbitrarily decided they don't, then they should find something else that interests them.
 
I like football and hockey.  I don't like soccer.  I have never for a second made any serious suggestion that soccer change to attract my interest.

Here's the problem with your analogy: Videogames are not one thing. Soccer is one sport. Someone saying they do not like videogames is not like saying they don't like soccer, it's like saying they don't like sports. Now, let's say that, instead of someone changing a sport to attract non-sports fans, someone creates a new sport that specifically targets people who don't like sports, leaving the existing sports alone.

Videogames are like sports, there's a large variety of them that appeal to different sections of the population. FPS games weren't one of the first gaming genres, and when they came out there weren't people complaining that there would be less platformers made to accommodate FPS fans. With the Wii Series of games, Nintendo didn't alter or abolish existing game genres, they created a new one to appeal to a different section of the population. They still make their Marios and their Zeldas, but now they also make Wii Fit. It isn't a replacement, it is an addition. Also, the Super Guide that's starting to appear in some games is a way to aid new players without compromising the game, so they are not changing the games themselves.

Now, when it comes to the Wii, I do think that Nintendo underestimated how much existing gamers would care about the hardware. However, from what I've seen of the Wii U, it looks like they aim to correct that mistake.

when the average review for a Nintendo 1st party title has a slightly to very inflated review score

Only if you think that reviews and opinions are not subjective, in which case... I have no idea how to respond to that.

Naturally, though, when people speak of "fairness" and "bias", what they really mean is that they want Nintendo's reviews to be inflated and everyone else's be deflated by comparison.  And folks on podcasts and editorials should be spending their time praising Nintendo up-and-down for finally doing things the rest of the industry was doing years ago.  Yeah, that just about sums up the hypocrisy.

I don't see anyone saying that. In fact, what started this discussion was someone asking why no one is predicting doom and gloom for Sony. They're hurting financially but you don't see anyone talking about how they should drop out of the console game and go third-party.

[Kairon]

I see the difference, Ian, but I don't think it's an accurate description at all. No one's changing the game of soccer, they're just showing non-soccer fans that there's another sport called darts. No one's upending the foreign movie circuit, they're just pointing out that, well, there's a buddy comedy showing half a block away. No one's taking my many beloved genres of videogames away from me, they're just playing other types of games and genres, many of which are new and which I've grown to enjoy as well.

Videogames are bigger than any one genre, they're bigger than any one idea of perfect. They involve variety, change, growth, adaptation, and surprise. I treasure fleeting instances of momentary concrete perfection as much as the next guy(i.e. Pikmin, Pikmin, and more Pikmin), but life is a moving target, and I don't expect gaming to be any different.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I see the difference, Ian, but I don't think it's an accurate description at all. No one's changing the game of soccer, they're just showing non-soccer fans that there's another sport called darts. No one's upending the foreign movie circuit, they're just pointing out that, well, there's a buddy comedy showing half a block away. No one's taking my many beloved genres of videogames away from me, they're just playing other types of games and genres, many of which are new and which I've grown to enjoy as well.

Videogames are bigger than any one genre, they're bigger than any one idea of perfect. They involve variety, change, growth, adaptation, and surprise. I treasure fleeting instances of momentary concrete perfection as much as the next guy(i.e. Pikmin, Pikmin, and more Pikmin), but life is a moving target, and I don't expect gaming to be any different.

Agree and disagree.  Videogames keep changing and I actually liked WiiSports and some of the "casual" efforts to hit the market.  Especially in the multiplayer region like with my wife for example. 

But I don't see the in addition.  While technically, I believe they have released the same # of core games as they did in the gamecube era, but it seems to me Nintendo is spending their time creating new ideas for the casual market and spending time for the core market creating sequels.  As stated, yeah, we got 3 Mario's which I believe is a first since the NES era, but where is our Pikmin?  We had some awesome 2d revivals, but those don't take as much time as a 3d game.  The extra time they could of spent coding was spent on casual games.

Also, the other thing that drives me crazy is that, while Nintendo has made questionable hardware decisions in prior generations, this is the first generation that specifically made core games suffer.  I.E. I still cannot for the life of me understand why New Super Mario Brothers did not have a classic control scheme.  The classic controller was supposed to be the concession for core gamers.  But not only do they not allow it as an option, they require motion control in the game.  Everybody has played Super Mario Bros, one staple of the series has been the "tight controls".  Nobody will ever say that motion controls at this point are tight.  It was a gamebreaker, I enjoyed the game, but it could have been better if they just used the controls available. 

Sidebar, how will the Wii-U be different?  Unless Nintendo is subscribing to the in-house multiplayer is dead, the Wii-mote will again be the main controller since only one wii-u mote can connect to a system.  And I've been hearing since the N64 era how much Nintendo covets third parties and is doing this and that to get them on-board, but it hasn't happened yet.  Just because Wii-U has HD developers will hop on?  Not if the wii-mote is still the main controller.   

[BlackNMild2k1]

Multiple uMotes can be connected to the Wii U. According to one Nintendo Rep and several "insider" tips about the Dev Kits.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Multiple uMotes can be connected to the Wii U. According to one Nintendo Rep and several "insider" tips about the Dev Kits.

Noteably a little behind on the Wii-U since I'm not hyped about it.  Could support 2-4 tablets but should be costly since this is likely to cost as much as a kinect controller. 

I still don't understand what they are trying to do then.  The Wii was popular with casuals because of the ability to mimic movements.  While this table has motion controls, it's not like you could swing it like a golf club or point it at the screen like the Wiimote.  So it would seem a move away from the motion controls they've established.  But then why keep the Wii branding?  And if the Wiimotes are going to have a significant presence on the Wii-U, won't the market see that as dated?  The Wii won because it had motion control built in and a head start over the move/kinect with the casual market.  Having tried the move/kinect I believe they are more accurate motion controllers.  Most likely Sony and Microsoft will tweak these controllers and deliver an improved motion controlled system for each of their next respective systems and probably build it in. 

The only thing the Wii-U has me excited for as a core gamer is the "possibility" of a DS player, where I could play even 3ds games on the big screen with a 3d tv. 

[Enner]

Japan Numbers!
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-03-07/one-piece-kaizoku-musou-game-sells-655774-at-no.1

Japan's Game Ranking: February 27-March 4
Rank   System   Title   Maker   Release Date   Weekly Copies   Total Copies
1   PS3   One Piece Kaizoku Musou Bandai Namco Games   March 1   655,774   655,774
2   3DS   Mario & Sonic at London Olympics   Nintendo   March 1   43,155   43,155   
3   3DS   BokujŨ Monogatari: Hajimari no Daichi   Marvelous AQL   February 23   27,378   108,509   
4   PSP   Great Battle Fullblast (Including Limited Edition)   Bandai Namco Games   March 1   24,289   24,289   
5   3DS   Theatrhythm Final Fantasy   Square Enix   February 16   21,540   99,532
6   3DS   Mario Kart 7   Nintendo   December 1   18,945   1,546,212   
7   PS3   Naruto ShippÅ«den: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations   BNG   February 23   17,917   83,675   
8   3DS   Super Mario 3D Land   Nintendo   November 3   16,142   1,386,318   
9   3DS   Monster Hunter 3 G (Including Bundled Edition)   CAPCOM   December 10   15,836   1,283,511
10   PSP   Tales of the Heroes: Twin Brave   Bandai Namco Games   February 23   12,358   97,668   
11   3DS   Doraemon: Nobita to Kiseki no Shima ~Animal Adventure~   FuRyu   March 1   12,228   12,228   
12   PS3   Asura's Wrath   CAPCOM   February 23   7,795   38,103   
13   3DS   Resident Evil Revelations   CAPCOM   January 26   7,444   251,560   
14   PS3   Binary Domain   Sega   February 16   6,775   95,364   
15   PS3   UFC Undisputed 3   Konami   March 1   6,198   6,198   
16   Wii   Just Dance Wii   Nintendo   October 13   6,043   555,149
17   PSP   Samurai Warriors/Sengoku Musou 3 Z Special   Tecmo KOEI Games   February 16   5,224   30,527   
18   PSP   Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (PSP the Best)   CAPCOM   September 22   5,156   207,523
19   PSP   Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai Portable   Bandai Namco Games   February 23   5,142   62,111
20   PS3   Gran Turismo 5 Spec II   SCE   February 2   4,922   53,096


Hardware Sales
System   Weekly Sales
3DS   70,744
PS3   65,116
PSP   15,715
Vita   10,023
Wii   8,111
PS2   1,377
Xbox 360   1,248
DSi LL   810
DSi   553

The very popular One Piece series proves to be very popular. The new Mario and Sonic Olympics game takes a distant 2nd place. The new Harvest Moon and Theatrhythm stick around in the top 5.

[broodwars]

I wonder how much more of a pounding will the Vita have to take in Japan before Sony actually does something about it?  I don't think I've ever seen a Vita game even chart on the weekly sales report, and the hardware sales just continue to plummet.

[Chozo Ghost]

I wonder how much more of a pounding will the Vita have to take in Japan before Sony actually does something about it?  I don't think I've ever seen a Vita game even chart on the weekly sales report, and the hardware sales just continue to plummet.

At least its outselling the Wii, though.

[Kairon]

Nintendo revived 3DS sales with Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, and Monster Hunter Tri G. Sony will prob have to find some Vita Software to match that lineup.

[Luigi Dude]

At least its outselling the Wii, though.

The Wii is a system that's over 5 years old  and is being replaced with a successor by the end of the year while the Vita is a new system that's not even 5 months old yet.  Outselling the Wii by only 2,000 systems just shows how terrible the Vita is doing in Japan right now and why Sony really needs to do something soon.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't think I've ever seen a Vita game even chart on the weekly sales report

It doesn't happen to often, but it does occasionally (last time was February 13-19 when Gravity Rush was #10 and Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward was #15).

[Chozo Ghost]

It seems like there is always talk about a system having a slow start or doing badly when it first launches. Aside from the Wii, how many systems actually do well at first? The day one success of the Wii seems to be more the exception than the rule. There may have been other systems which hit the ground running, but overall most of them only hit their full stride months or years later.

We are having this "Vita is doomed" talk now, but a year ago the same thing was said about the 3DS, and last generation the same was said of the DS and PSP in their early days as well. It seems like this always happens, so isn't it just the normal way of things?

For years everyone chalked the PSP up as a failure, but then Monster Hunter came out and changed everything (at least in Japan). From that moment forward the PSP metamorphisized from a slow moving caterpillar of a failure into the soaring butterfly we see today. All it needed was that Monster Hunter Cocoon and the fortunes of the system did a complete 180. I'm not saying the Vita will necessarily get some big hit exclusive like that, but it could, and that's why its still way too early to discount it just yet.

[Tamazoid]

The PS2 launch was extremely successful after all the hype surrounding it and alot of PS1 owners making the switch. The Dreamcast was too to a lesser degree if you compared it to the Saturn sale figures..

[TJ Spyke]

The Dreamcast launch was very successful, it just tanked shortly after (sorta like the PlayStation Vita, though the Dreamcast at least lasted longer before tanking).

[Louieturkey]

Chozo Ghost is right.  My guess is Sony with be very patient with the Vita as they saw what could happen with the PSP and all it needing is a good game or two to really catapult it to the top of the charts.

Even the Wii wasn't all that successful at it's beginnings.  I think the PS2 even outsold it a couple of weeks during its first months.  Systems usually hit their stride when the supply chain is well oiled and some really good games have been released for it.  It can take a year or even two somtimes.

[marty]

Even the Wii wasn't all that successful at it's beginnings.

in america, it was practically sold out for from launch until 2009 with occasional shortages up until 2010.