Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Luigi Dude]

I've never had a problem with my friends using the C-Stick since I can tell when a charactor is going to use a Smash Attack.  Smash Attacks take longer then normal attacks even with C, so I can see when ones about to be done giving me plenty of time shield or roll behind them where I can do an easy grab.

[Spak-Spang]

We are talking and discussing.

Geez.  Chill out.  This is a message board topic about Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Of course we are going to discuss all sorts of things in this thread.

1)New characters we would like to see.
2)New moves, levels, abilities.
3)Pacing of the game.  Whether it should speed up or be slowed down.
4)Misc. Desires for the game.
5)Things that we would like to see improved from Melee, or that even Melee did right.

Smash isn't just complaining.  He is bringing legit concerns he personally has about the two original games and we are discussing how to make it better.

Unfortunately, messageboards tend to usefully swing more negative than positive because it is easier to complain about something because we can't actually actively make it better...and commenting a postive post is boring.

I really like Mario in Melee he was the bomb.  Where do you go in discussion from there?

Saying the Melee's speed was too fast, which made certain character unplayed, and other character too good, will actually bring discussion and debate.  Which is what a board is supposed to be about.

But.  To get back to "Positive Talk"

Here is what Melee did GREAT that vastly changed the Smash Brothers Experience for the Better:

1)Adventure Mode. Single Player just become much more enjoyable, and had an actual point instead of just random battles.  Very cool.

2)Event Mode:  This allowed for the best Smash players to challenge themselves in some rather brilliant predetermined battles with odd rules.  It also introduced players to all the robust options for Multiplayer.

3)Tons of hidden character.  The clones may have been annoying, but it atleast upped our # of playable characters, and added some variation to game design.

4)Charging Smash Attacks.  This allowed you to plan chain attacks and succeed in larger Smashes that will send players flying.  It allowed higher damaged characters to still be a threat to less damaged characters.

5)4 different Throws.  Awesome.

6)New characters that felt new and actually added to gameplay techniques.  

[Kairon]

Another thing they did great was to put in the C-stick.

Yeah, you heard me.

Whut? WHUT?

... *ahem*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Caliban]

So, basically speaking, wavedashing is just a glitch that will give the player certain advantages.

In my point of view, to exploit a glitch is not welcome, however since it is a game than if you can bend the rules to your favor all the credit for you, but for every bend there is a counter-bend.

Also, we have to realize that if a developer goes out to elimiante every possible glitch (gameplay, graphics, audio) in a game, then it is possible that those games may never see the light of day.

A blackhole? Oh yeah I've seen that before, pretty wacked.

For SSBB I want: Widescreen, more characters or at least take out some from SSBM, more stages, more, more, more, "more anything? more everything!"

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban So, basically speaking, wavedashing is just a glitch that will give the player certain advantages.

In my point of view, to exploit a glitch is not welcome, however since it is a game than if you can bend the rules to your favor all the credit for you, but for every bend there is a counter-bend.

That's why it'll likely get axed.

Quote
For SSBB I want: Widescreen, more characters or at least take out some from SSBM, more stages, more, more, more, "more anything? more everything!"

Brawl will have, by Sakurai's words, close to 40 characters.

But they can only afford to do one additional level. Sorry.

Seriously, since the game will be on a DVD now, they should be able to bring back ALL prior levels, from SSB as well.

[Smash_Brother]

On another note, do we know which level THIS is:



I'm sure those lines on the ground and the yellow glowing rimmed platforms can be matched to something.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

FFS, people, I used this as an EXAMPLE OF WHY THE GAME WAS RUSHED. Nothing else. It doesn't hurt the game, but I know for a FACT that if HAL had more time, they would have added a random button to that screen, added the FE stage, given Ganondorf his sword, etc.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't know you worked for HAL. Did you get fired for suggesting they slow Melee down to a snails pace or something? Is this the source of the non-sensical hatred of the game?

[Kairon]

No, he was fired over artistic differences. He wanted a button... and they didn't.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The thing about wavedashing that makes it not bother me is that so few people can do it.  I've only ever been successful in practice mode with no opponent.

IMO, wavedashing is very easy to do... as long as you aren't trying to make it look like you haven't even jumped. If you are recovering from a jump, then I have no problem with the timing though, but it doesn't hold a great advantage when done like that, unless you are Luigi.

[Shorty McNostril]

Does anyone use the control stick for jumping? I personally would love it if they removed the jump so i can actually use the up+a attack.  They only way i can manage that attack is jumping once while holding the stick up so when i land i can use that attack. And that means that for me its useless. I can fluke it sometimes but i dont know how.

Anyone know of any ways to use the up+a attack viably?

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey I didn't know you worked for HAL. Did you get fired for suggesting they slow Melee down to a snails pace or something? Is this the source of the non-sensical hatred of the game?

No, I walked out when they hired Takashi Nishiyama to handle the speed mechanics and character design.

Seriously, I've spent likely 300 hours playing the game, taken the time to learn all characters and master some of the worst and I enjoy it on a semi-regular basis. For a guy who hates the game, I've spent a sh*tload of time playing it and enjoying it.

That doesn't mean I think there is no room for improvement, however.

[UniversalJuan]

Just throwing in my random two cents.

I play at tournaments when I get a chance to go. I have some good Smash Bros player friends. I have seen a Pikahcu user win a Smash Event (Lawrence, KS Event like 57 or so, if you're curious I placed like 7th here, DAMN good people were there and I had some very rough matchups). Wavedashing is something I loathed and enver understood until I learned to use it, period. I can now do it almost on command (As a result, my Mario game has become much ebtter and the Ice Climbers are one of my best characters to play as)

The tier list is  a borderline joke. It exists, to an extent. At the event I am referring to I saw a near mastery level Falcon get it handed to him from a Pikachu user (Wow, this Pika user could chian for at least 40% damage, it was crazy). According to the tier list, they are both incredibly high level players (Both above myself, the Falcon user is my rival and I'm almost at his level..just...a...little...more!) so the Falcon should beat hte Pika yes? No. The Pika had a clear advantage halfway through the match (GREAT match to watch btw if yuo're into the competitive scene. You know those tournament videos? I get to see some of them done live, almost got to be in one but that was a different tourney with no VCR round, pity heh)

The speed of Smash Bros Melee is amazing. As a Peach user, Fox users give me the creeps (I've yet to lose to a tournament Fox player) but they can be overcome due to advance tactics (Float cancels, chain throws, etc). It's all relative. S_B, you say you can beat your firends when you radomly bring out Fox? You guys need to keep practicing because something's wrong there. Over 4 years after buying the game adn I SITLL am finding things about it I didn't know (Pikachu's Thundershock can be stuck in the tree on Pokemon Stadium for xample, found that out this year).  The level of polish on Melee astounds me.

My impatience for Brawl from the Wii launch title thread comes from having 646:18 hours of playtime logged (On one of my names I pick for my stat tracking the counter just plain doesn't run anymore heh). I have full confidence that we could give them a freaking week and they'd churn out a game better than Melee which would blow my mind. Let's have a little faith here.

The balancing in Melee is great. My brother is a Shiek user and I used to run Mewtwo as my main way back when. Constant ass kicking from him to me, I switch to Marth and discovered counter (LOL what a silly little beginner I was, but I'm drifting here) and evened the odds. Time progressed and my skill went higher and higher and his didn't increase much. Fast forward to like 2004 and I can beat him with Mewtwo all over the floor constantly. By all technicality my odds of beating him shouldn't be so high using Mewtwo, but it's that skill that tips the scale in my favor. I'm just plain better at the game and can beat him with almost any character I please. That's the ebauty and balance of Melee. If you fail to see this then you're nuts.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril Does anyone use the control stick for jumping? I personally would love it if they removed the jump so i can actually use the up+a attack.  They only way i can manage that attack is jumping once while holding the stick up so when i land i can use that attack. And that means that for me its useless. I can fluke it sometimes but i dont know how.

Anyone know of any ways to use the up+a attack viably?

I know how you feel. I would like this removed as well.

But people, I'm serious about the level question.



Does anyone have even the FAINTEST clue about where that level might be from? I'm trying to piece together the clues because I believe we were given enough to deduce the owner of the level, and I'm not sure if that character is known or unknown.

The clues I've seen are:

1. The light blue line pattern on the ground with a purple pulse running through it.

2. The hovering platforms with the glowing yellow line around them.

3. The glowing blue crystal with a semicircle railing around it stuck to the bottom of the stage which appears to be holding the level aloft.

4. The rising sun emblem next to Snake before he pops out of the box.

5. Some broken pillars in the background (though that doesn't narrow it down).

The sun emblem and the pulsing line pattern on the stage seem the most distinct. I don't suspect the level is finished, but I think these clues are definitely there for a reason.

Anyone have any insight into this?  

[Kairon]

Quote
Smash Bros.' Smash bros. Level

Either it's a new version of Hyrule Castle, a new Twilight Princess Stage (the blue lines are Goron tech.!) or i's most probably an unfinished stage. After all, the game is slated for 2007, they must've only really gotten underway in development recently, and all that stuff they showed at E3 must've been tightly scripted and created specifically for PR purposes to whip everyone up into an E3 frenzy.

Quote
Universual Juan's post

I shall worship you as my smash bros. god. Great post. Seriously.

Oh, and you bring news of Pikachu holding its own in SB tourneys.

I worship you some more!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Universual Juan's post

I shall worship you as my smash bros. god. Great post. Seriously.

I second that, and thanks for sharing about your tournament experiences Juan. Man, 646 though? And here I thought the 182 hours that me and my friends logged on mine was daunting...

Also, on a side note to Shorty McNostril, I pretty much only use the control stick for jumping. It feels natural, and keeps my thumb free for attacking, so I would hate to see jump isolated to only a button.  

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

5. Some broken pillars in the background (though that doesn't narrow it down).

The sun emblem and the pulsing line pattern on the stage seem the most distinct. I don't suspect the level is finished, but I think these clues are definitely there for a reason.

Anyone have any insight into this?

You know what I just thought of? Well there is oddly enough a busted up parthenon "looking" structure in the backround and in Kid Icarus the first level had busted up pillars. And Pit from Kid Icarus is in the game...

So maybe it's Pit's level?  

[MattVDB]

Am I crazy to see a wrench in that picture on the ground?  It couldn't possibly be an Advance Wars level, could it be?  I honestly haven't played the game enough to know, but that could be sweet.  Thoughts?

[UltimatePartyBear]

I'm almost positive that's Angel Land (from Kid Icarus).

[Ceric]

No.  An Advance Wars level be more Cartoony.  Think Chibiish.  Though that could have all sorts of possibilities...hmm...

[Caliban]

What if that level was just for the demo?! I think the levels shown in the trailer were just for show, they were lacking in detail compared to the levels we've played in SSBM. The main focus was on new characters, I think. However if it really is a level for the final game I would say it would be a Legend Of Zelda Twilight Princess level, the ruins in the back, the glowing marks were used in Wind Waker and I bet they will surely be used in Twilight Princess, however as I have written before that the shown levels look very incomplete.

Edit: Today, after a long hiatus, I played some SSBM again, boy am I rusty, and I was never that good I think, well I never got the chance to play much multiplayer anyway so I could never judge my skills.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wrong.

We didn't get to see enough of the Castle-under-siege level, but it was pretty big.

We got to see plenty of Meta Knight's ship, and it puts the Great Fox to shame.

Then there's the throne room stage which we've seen in screenshots and only appears for a second in the trailer, and that's pretty dense with architecture.

Wannabe-Angel-Land, which is more like Boring Battlefield, is the only demo stage we've seen that isn't packed with architecture.  But it still looks more interesting than Battlefield.  It even has an anti-gravity orb underneath the island, like the Final Destination stage.

Even so, they'll all get even better over time.

[Spak-Spang]

THANK YOU!!!  For mentioned Advanced Wars.

We don't yet have a character from that game yet.

Hmmm...do we use a special unit...or would you use a commanding general for a Smash Brothers character?

Either way I think it would cool.

Then the Advanced War level could have everyone battling on a literal battle field with bombs and explosions everywhere.

Who is with me???

[Ceric]

On of the little Soldier people from Battalion Wars.

[Spak-Spang]

I was thinking Sami from Orange Star as a playable character.

First, she has a nice gun, so she could be a ranged combatant that also swung her gun in clost combat.

Second, She is a Girl.  We need more female combatants.

Third, I think she could add some interesting mechanics to the game.  An Air Raid Bomb attack could be like Pikachu's Lightning Bolt...but come in at a Diagonal line.

She could possible even switch weapons to represent different type of fighting in game.  I dunno.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
First, she has a nice gun, so she could be a ranged combatant that also swung her gun in clost combat.

That's actually a strike against her, as Sakurai has gone on record already saying he doesn't want real world guns in the game, which came up with the inclusion of Snake and his moveset.

I will be dissapointed if no one from Advance Wars makes it, as there is a lot of potentional there. My number one choice would be Sturm, as I have said before I think:



There are a lot of things that could be done with his meteors, although him not being in the DS version is a huge strike against that happening.

Hawke would also be another nice addition, and more likely. You bring up a good point about the game needing more female combatants, though, and Advance Wars has more than a few to choose from, and Sami would be the most likely of the women COs... but I wouldn't mind a more obscure choice like Sonja or Lash as a secret character.