Topic: Smash Bros Spoilers: [spoiler]SONIC APPEARS[/spoiler]

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I have this odd hunch that Sega allowed Nintendo to use Sonic only of they were allowed to do the olympics game, and the delay is somehow involved in that, to give the olympics game more chance to sell this christmas or something.

That's what I've been saying all along. Brawl was going to murder Mario and Sonic Olympics in terms of hype. The delay gives the game to have a small presence and have the spotlight for a while before the BIG cross over event begins.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I have this odd hunch that Sega allowed Nintendo to use Sonic only of they were allowed to do the olympics game, and the delay is somehow involved in that, to give the olympics game more chance to sell this christmas or something.

I think that was the deal: Sega develops M&S: O and Nintendo puts Sonic in Brawl.

I'm still waiting to see what Konami's end of the deal was for Snake in Brawl...

[Adrock]

I don't know.... That benefits Sega far more. Nintendo gets yet ANOTHER party game on Wii and one that includes Mario again while Sega not only will earn a lot of dolla-dolla-bill y'all for publishing the Olympics game, they also get to advertise their character, who has lost tons of credibility over the past few years, in arguably the biggest game coming out on Wii, which itself, so far, the most successful next-gen console. Of course, this opens up Brawl to more cross-over fans, especially those who have been yearning for a Mario vs. Sonic anything since the 16-bit era, but, like Snake, it just seems like Nintendo is giving more than what they're getting in return.

So if there was a deal, I would think that there's more to it than that. Although, this could just be Nintendo a case of Nintendo being charitable enough to help out 3rd parties.

[Mikintosh]

I don't think it's "charity", as Snake being in Brawl makes it more appealing to the MGS/Sony nuts who would've ignored it otherwise. And, of course, this may be Nintendo's way of trying to be Konami's buddy for its Metal Gear games after Solid 4 (and you know there will be).

[Adrock]

Well, I already mentioned as much.... my point is that the "deal" as we're assuming it right now is more favorable to Konami and Sega than it is for Nintendo hence my "it just seems like Nintendo is giving more than what they're getting in return" remark.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Well, I already mentioned as much.... my point is that the "deal" as we're assuming it right now is more favorable to Konami and Sega than it is for Nintendo hence my "it just seems like Nintendo is giving more than what they're getting in return" remark.

Sega is paying for development of the game, though, and Nintendo will be reaping 50% of the profits, I'd guess. That's a deal for Nintendo unless Sega got something else out of it.

I know Sega's characters don't have the same appeal as many of Nintendo's, but there's still more money to be made by Nintendo since they didn't foot the bill.

And like I've said before, Nintendo's been in this business too long to give anything away for free. I'm sure they've bargained for SOMETHING out of Konami...

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Sega is paying for development of the game, though, and Nintendo will be reaping 50% of the profits, I'd guess. That's a deal for Nintendo unless Sega got something else out of it.

The fact that their games haven't been selling all that well lately, with a few exceptions, and Nintendo's have?

A Mario Olympics game would have sold a lot more than a Sonic Olympics game, so while it might be true that Nintendo will get more profits in this scenario... it ignores the fact that it's giving Sega a opportunity that they probably never could have achieved by their lonesome, even if you cut the final figure in half.

[Adrock]

If Nintendo gets that big a percentage of profits, then that's a bit more fair, but if I remember correctly, Sega is publishing the game. This game can't possibly cost that much to make (those party games are f*cking goldmines) so even if Sega pays for development they'll likely make it back and then some. I know we don't know specifics, but Sega could've easily just licensed the characters from Nintendo, possibly a heavy sum, but one well worth it due to the it-will-sell-like-hot-cakes-anyway-even-if-it-sucks factor.

As for Konami, I'd like to point out The Twin Snakes again. Everything about that deal points to Nintendo getting a raw deal. Unless we see something concrete down the road (hopefully sooner rather than later), I'm still holding on to the notion that Nintendo was just being kind.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
As for Konami, I'd like to point out The Twin Snakes again. Everything about that deal points to Nintendo getting a raw deal. Unless we see something concrete down the road (hopefully sooner rather than later), I'm still holding on to the notion that Nintendo was just being kind.

Mario DDR, which sold SURPRISINGLY well, so much so that they needed to have a second production run of it because the demand was so high.

Though, I think Konami owes them more than Sega does: Sega has at least brought solid support to the GC in the past whereas Konami spent its duration pooping on it.

Also, on the subject of Sonic, I'm guessing his primary weakness is that he is a melee-only character with no ranged attacks. He'll hurl around the levels like a bat out of hell, but he'll be difficult to control unless you've mastered him.

Also, he doesn't have a good standing range attack, like some of the sword wielders do, meaning he needs to get close to attack. Sonic will be the ultimate in quick-strike tactics.

Should make for an interesting character...

[Sessha]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock I'm still holding on to the notion that Nintendo was just being kind.

I don't know, Nintendo is a business, Even if nothing is in the works right now, they will use this as leverage to negotiate with Konami.  

[Adrock]

Mario DDR was still pretty limited. And Nintendo also gave them Mario to use. On top of that, I still think Nintendo gave up a lot more. I do agree that Konami owes Nintendo a lot more than Sega does, for all the MGS4 advertising, if nothing else. At least we already got an exclusive, built specifically for Wii Sonic game which wasn't that bad.

As for Sonic, I agree. They made him easier to control than I assumed he'd be by allowing his spin attack to curve upwards. He does seem like a difficult character to master, though all the characters were difficult to master so I guess, a more apt statement would be that Sonic is one of the more difficult characters to master. Still, the 178 different moves he can use to get back on stage is a positive.

Quote
I don't know, Nintendo is a business, Even if nothing is in the works right now, they will use this as leverage to negotiate with Konami.

Possibly though using that in future negotiations could sour a deal. No one likes that friend. I don't think it's ever going to work out between Nintendo and Konami business-wise until they both realize that they can benefit from each other. What we've seen with The Twin Snakes was bull. It was 99% old gameplay and design. Silicon Knights could have done so much more with that game.