Author Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*  (Read 3167410 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7575 on: September 05, 2012, 01:31:15 PM »
The overworld undoubtably has to be interesting and not just big, but I want to feel like I'm really on an epic quest.  I remember in OoT when I had to go back on learn Saria's song.  They made out like me leaving the forest was this huge deal and yet I could easily walk for ten minutes to get back on see Saria again?  So my epic journey is like walking to the corner store for milk?  Lame.  At the time I figured that was just the limitations of the N64 but the Zelda games have not really gotten bigger since then.  RPGs used to use overworld maps to give the illusion of covering a great distance and Xenoblade is the first game I've ever played where all the distance is covered in realtime and feels grand.  In Zelda I feel like I'm walking around Disneyland where I have all these different areas cramped into one property.  The older games feel bigger and I think it's because of the limitations at the time.  The original LoZ was HUGE compared to the typical game of the time but Skyward Sword does not.

One thing I didn't like about Skyward Sword is that each area was disconnected.  I should be able to go from the woods to the desert without having to fly back up the hub.  It felt like levels.  If I want levels I'll play Mario.  Zelda is supposed to one world or possibly two parallel ones (LttP, OoT).  I think MM and LA did things best for having dungeons that aren't dungeons.  Both games have mini-dungeon parts that are not "proper" dungeons.  MM only has four dungeons but there is so many other things to do it doesn't feel like a small game.  What they really were doing was blending the dungeons into the overworld.  Skyward Sword also has a very formal seperation between the safe NPC populated area and the rest of the world.  I didn't like that.  The dungeon like areas were cool but I like how in other Zelda games you might have a typical overworld area with enemies and then there'll be this one cabin near the woods or on the mountain or whatever where some NPC guy lives.  In SS it felt too much like Skyloft was the safe area with NPCs and everything else was where the enemies were.  There were some NPCs outside the sky area but not many.  The whole execution seemed really out-of-touch frankly.  The whole "problem" with dungeons is the formality of it.  That's what is getting boring.  What would make it more interesting would be the blur the seperation between dungeon and overworld.  But SS didn't do that.  SS made things MORE formal.  Here is the safe NPC area.  Here is the dangerous enemy infested area.  Here is the dungeon.  While I can't speak for every Zelda fan I want things to feel more like a connected world and Nintendo decided to make it more like a bunch of levels.  Zelda is becoming stale because it is so structured and SS is the most structured Zelda game yet.

And does ANYONE like the guardians?  I HATED that **** in PH and they brought it BACK?!  I never want to see that **** in a Zelda game ever again.

What did I actually like about Skyward Sword that wasn't already a typical Zelda element?  My favourite parts were how Skyloft felt like a real village and how they did a good job of offering dungeon like elements outside of dungeons.  But I can offer the same praise to MM and I think that game did those BETTER!  SS has motion controls, seperated areas, flight, and a lot of backtracking to previously established areas.  I don't like ANY of those.  No wonder my armchair developer Zelda has virtually no elements from SS!

...though I liked the graphics and the ability to run.  And flight is a cool idea in theory but I would prefer conventional controls for it.  Not a total loss but my enjoyment of SS was largely based on my general enjoyment of the Zelda formula and not really anything that it specifically introduced to the series.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7576 on: September 05, 2012, 01:41:05 PM »
Yes, the TP Orc battle was awesome...and shows a good use for larger over worlds, but that battle could have been done easily in OoTs Over World.

Not to belittle your point, but weren't they the same thing?

What I would summarize as people's most asked for overworld is one that is dense first, large second, and can be skipped through third.

My fantasy Zelda would be the original except bigger and in 3D. It would possibly be the hardest game ever made. You start out with no idea what you are doing and freely explore the land and sea. You may happen upon a quest or side-quest but that's really not the point of the game. Its all about adventure and finding the tools and items to further your adventure.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7577 on: September 05, 2012, 01:52:18 PM »
I haven't played it because I don't have a Wii anymore...and living in S.K...I don't think I could play it because it would be in Korean.
My suggestion is you should buy it and make it your first game you play on your shiny new Wii U. :)

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7578 on: September 05, 2012, 02:12:51 PM »
Well, I won't disagree with the whole disconnected fields thing... I felt that was a poor choice and that the developers didn't know what they wanted to be the overworld of the game- so they stuck with the sky because it was more different. If the other areas had been interconnected, however, the sky would have been severely underplayed- even more than it already was.

I feel that having one town was a risky choice, but I think it was to emphasize how early in the story this game is- it allowed things to be simple and streamlined. I do think that the enemy populous could have been a little higher, but I think that's because I just got used to the combat really quickly- I just really enjoyed how each enemy encounter was its own challenge and had to be faced down in a thinking, adapting manner. That's one thing that I really hate about the series in general- that the combat isn't engaging at all, and by Twilight Princess, I was more or less done with the "wait for an attack and strike" formula the series had boiled down to. The masterful sword combat in Skyward Sword is one of the main reasons I love the game.

I can't really agree with your "formal and structured" argument because that's kind of what the series is at its core, however, I think Skyward Sword suffered heavily from the development time put into the motion controls because it lacked a lot of the varied gameplay we got with Twilight Princess- escort missions and more interesting little side diversions. However, Twilight Princess seemed empty and I'd say it had just about the same amount of enemies throughout its "enemy populated areas", and the engagements were less interesting, to boot. Skyward Sword utilized its environments, which were just about the best seen in any 3d Zelda game, over and over again and in different ways that were engaging and gave purpose as to why you revisited the area. And call me crazy, but I enjoyed Skyward Sword's guardian segments because they gave purpose to the basic abilities you had and were challenging in a different way. Now, I'm not saying I liked PH or ST's guardian segments, but I thought Skyward Sword did it great.

I just think that overall, you need to take each game with the mindset that it's always going to be different. One could argue that Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time are very similar, but I would disagree because they both have very different focuses. I don't think a Zelda game has to be land-based, classic style to be good, because they've proven that to me with Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Skyward Sword. I think a varied locale and design to the game is what keeps the series fresh. However, a larger, more populated overworld would be nice, but I'd also very much enjoy platforming and puzzling elements to be woven into the game to a point that dungeons gradually become overworld and vice versa, and you know that you're getting close to a dungeon when the puzzling and platforming elements start to become more difficult, but it's still a gradual change.

But now, Zelda to me should always have motion controls because that was the most engaging combat I've ever had in a Zelda game, and the series deserves to have a well-rounded amount of elements contributing to it, not just puzzling.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7579 on: September 05, 2012, 02:16:21 PM »
I don't think the Sky would have became down played if they connected the areas.  The sky would be Fast Travel and the interconnection would be more difficult and slower.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7580 on: September 05, 2012, 02:26:05 PM »
Disconnecting the world to justify the sky isn't a good reason.  Well why bother with this sky concept in the first place, then?  There is no reason they had to take that approach.  Plus with the big town being in the sky it was clear I would be returning again and again anyway.  There are locations in the sky I have to visit to complete the game.  Shouldn't that be good enough?

Both WW and SS have really inconvenient time-wasting methods of travel.  Intentional padding perhaps?

Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7581 on: September 05, 2012, 03:11:50 PM »
I'm pretty much 100% sure that the "dream Zelda game" I envision in my head is one that will NEVER happen.

You mean Zelda + Animal Crossing + a lot of random crying? :P

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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7582 on: September 05, 2012, 03:22:10 PM »
I agree that the areas should have had manual connections at the periphery. My problem with Skyloft wasn't the formal element, though. I think it was fine that there was a big separation between the sky and the ground. I mean, that's basically the point of the game, connecting the isolated sky world back to the Earth. What Skyloft needed was a second town or populous area, perhaps a rival community with opposing goals. This would have allowed more to do in the sky, and amped up the tension. Despite the fact that the world was sorta ending, everyone in Skyloft was just of whistling in the breeze until near the end of the game. They could have had a Majora's Mask level of NPC interaction going on in the clouds as a huge, ongoing sidequest to the combat/puzzles/dungeons.

Offline Sarail

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7583 on: September 05, 2012, 09:59:52 PM »
I just want a Zelda that retains the series' tried and true dungeon/puzzle elements and sense of discovery. But I want to see the series start to steer itself in a new direction - and Skyward Sword started to show a bit of this...

I want Link hopping across platforms, swinging from vines, climbing ladders and cliffs, etc etc... like Nathan Drake. I mean, identically like Drake, too. I want more severity in the platforming and more intensity in build-ups to all of the big moments in-game. Hey, I'd even like the gameplay/play control loosened up a bit by creating a cover system, but with Nintendo and Aonuma's team's twist on it. Link's got a bow, hookshot, slingshot, bombs (grenades)... so let's give him a craftier way to use each of those forms of weaponry.

And for the love of all that is holy and mighty... I. Want. VOICE. ACTING.

Sheesh, Nintendo... it's your most epic series, and it still hasn't stepped into the 21st century of video game design. "Haters gonna hate" against my opinion on this matter. But oh well. I like what I like.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7584 on: September 05, 2012, 10:20:29 PM »
I don't need voice acting. But for the love of god, I DESIRE ARCHERY TO BE A MAJOR PART OF THE GAME. Especially horse-back archery. I want the Zelda series going all Samurai about it too.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7585 on: September 05, 2012, 10:26:53 PM »
The overworld undoubtably has to be interesting and not just big, but I want to feel like I'm really on an epic quest.  I remember in OoT when I had to go back on learn Saria's song.  They made out like me leaving the forest was this huge deal and yet I could easily walk for ten minutes to get back on see Saria again?  So my epic journey is like walking to the corner store for milk?  Lame.  At the time I figured that was just the limitations of the N64 but the Zelda games have not really gotten bigger since then.  RPGs used to use overworld maps to give the illusion of covering a great distance and Xenoblade is the first game I've ever played where all the distance is covered in realtime and feels grand.  In Zelda I feel like I'm walking around Disneyland where I have all these different areas cramped into one property.  The older games feel bigger and I think it's because of the limitations at the time.  The original LoZ was HUGE compared to the typical game of the time but Skyward Sword does not.


I kinda disagree with this point.  The reason it was a big deal Link left the forest was because none of those kids left the forest before.  They always stayed and were protected.  The impact is the same even if you only walked 10 minutes back to the forest...and you know what...that 10 minutes sometimes felt long and boring...I didn't care for it.  In OoT before I got the horse, I hated walking in the over world. 

These action RPG games have a delicate balance to maintain.  Creating an interesting world that is big enough to feel like you are exploring a world...but small enough not to be boring, because in the end, you are moving from one level to the next in these worlds...there is just some stuff and story to experience on the way.  In Twilight Princess, there were many times, I dreaded changing locations, because it was going to take 10-15 minutes to just get to the location I wanted to be in before doing what I really wanted to do. 

I am kinda liking the sound of Skyward Sword's disconnected over world because it seems to allow for easier exploration and perhaps travel to teach area. 

Offline tendoboy1984

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7586 on: September 05, 2012, 10:30:18 PM »


I kinda disagree with this point.  The reason it was a big deal Link left the forest was because none of those kids left the forest before.  They always stayed and were protected.  The impact is the same even if you only walked 10 minutes back to the forest...and you know what...that 10 minutes sometimes felt long and boring...I didn't care for it.  In OoT before I got the horse, I hated walking in the over world. 

These action RPG games have a delicate balance to maintain.  Creating an interesting world that is big enough to feel like you are exploring a world...but small enough not to be boring, because in the end, you are moving from one level to the next in these worlds...there is just some stuff and story to experience on the way.  In Twilight Princess, there were many times, I dreaded changing locations, because it was going to take 10-15 minutes to just get to the location I wanted to be in before doing what I really wanted to do. 

I am kinda liking the sound of Skyward Sword's disconnected over world because it seems to allow for easier exploration and perhaps travel to teach area.

If you want a boring game with tedious trekking across a large, empty world, try playing Skyrim...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:32:12 PM by tendoboy1984 »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7587 on: September 05, 2012, 10:33:34 PM »
I don't need voice acting. But for the love of god, I DESIRE ARCHERY TO BE A MAJOR PART OF THE GAME. Especially horse-back archery. I want the Zelda series going all Samurai about it too.

The problem with too many items is that they start replacing each other.  I liked TP because archery became a very useful means to snipe enemies...but soon I just didn't need it that much. 

I actually feel a Zelda game with fewer items, would be better...so that they can more carefully balance game play to make all items important all the time.  I feel item classes would be a good measure to do this. 

You could easily have link have a Slingshot, (short ranged attacks, become a bow and arrow, longer ranged attacks, become a cross bow longest ranged attacks.)

Boomerang short ranged item, used to hit switches, and collect items.  Can be used to distract enemies, but no stun effects.  Long Boomerang longer and adds stun effects.  Hero's boomerang, multi-targeting weapon. 

Offline Sarail

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7588 on: September 05, 2012, 10:41:30 PM »
I don't need voice acting. But for the love of god, I DESIRE ARCHERY TO BE A MAJOR PART OF THE GAME. Especially horse-back archery. I want the Zelda series going all Samurai about it too.
Oooh... +1 for you, sir. I wholeheartedly agree!


Spak, SS sort of started that for us with the whole item upgrading process - which I thought was absolutely brilliant. I'd love to see that expanded even more in the next game. Also having that added to Link's tunic/armour as well...would be really cool to give particular enhancements to Link's defence via armour upgrades.


Nothing wrong with giving the series a bit more of a RPG flair.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:48:39 PM by Racht »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7589 on: September 05, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »
Bleh. The Uncharted series is not what I want Zelda to be.
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Offline Sarail

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7590 on: September 05, 2012, 10:56:17 PM »
I never said I wanted it to be entirely like the Uncharted series, hah. I just want Link to have more mobility and fluidity to his actions and movements - just like Nathan Drake. Also, you can't possibly tell me that having Link hiding behind a huge rock (via a cover system style), waiting for an impending Moblin to walk by, only to catch him from behind, stuff a bomb into the Mob's garb, and watching the Mob blow up and *POOF* up in smoke ala WW or SS style... wouldn't be cool as hell?

If not, you're crazy. The Zelda formula needs to be changed up, and Skyward Sword was a good start to the changes that need to occur.
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Offline tendoboy1984

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7591 on: September 05, 2012, 11:02:49 PM »

I never said I wanted it to be entirely like the Uncharted series, hah. I just want Link to have more mobility and fluidity to his actions and movements - just like Nathan Drake. Also, you can't possibly tell me that having Link hiding behind a huge rock (via a cover system style), waiting for an impending Moblin to walk by, only to catch him from behind, stuff a bomb into the Mob's garb, and watching the Mob blow up and *POOF* up in smoke ala WW or SS style... wouldn't be cool as hell?

If not, you're crazy. The Zelda formula needs to be changed up, and Skyward Sword was a good start to the changes that need to occur.

Uncharted was the sole reason I got a PS3. It's the PS3's Halo, so to speak, and it solidifies Naughty Dog's position as one of the best developers in the gaming industry.

If the Uncharted series was multiplatform, I'd buy a copy for every console in existence. ESPECIALLY Uncharted 2.

Can't wait for The Last of Us. Damn that game looks incredible.

I sure wish Microsoft had a developer as talented as Naughty Dog, but it seems they really don't care about 1st-party games anymore.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7592 on: September 06, 2012, 12:17:33 AM »
I want the Zelda series going all Samurai about it too.

What if the Zelda series took a more Aztec oriented direction? I would like to see Obsidian swords, Atlatls, and Jaguar skinned warriors which would put PETA in an uproar. Also, you should be able to cut out your opponents still beating hearts with an obsidian knife and offer it as a sacrifice to the Gods of Hyrule. The game would of course have to carry an M rating obviously.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7593 on: September 06, 2012, 12:32:28 AM »
I just like exploring a world crammed with secrets while killing a bunch of enemies with my sword 'n stuff.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7594 on: September 06, 2012, 12:50:58 AM »
I just like exploring a world crammed with secrets while killing a bunch of enemies with my sword 'n stuff.

You could still do that in an Aztec universe.
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Offline Sarail

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7595 on: September 06, 2012, 12:52:07 AM »
I just like exploring a world crammed with secrets while killing a bunch of enemies with my sword 'n stuff.

You could still do that in an Aztec universe.
As cliche as it is, I still want a steampunk Zelda. Imagine the dungeon puzzles! :D x 10000000
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Offline tendoboy1984

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7596 on: September 06, 2012, 12:56:20 AM »

As cliche as it is, I still want a steampunk Zelda. Imagine the dungeon puzzles! :D x 10000000

Majora's Mask's "Great Bay Temple" and Skyward Sword's "Lanyru Mining Facility" say hi.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7597 on: September 06, 2012, 12:56:42 AM »
I want the Zelda series going all Samurai about it too.

What if the Zelda series took a more Aztec oriented direction?

Haha, I'd support that!

Actually I only meant "samurai' in the sense that it related to archery... though judging by these Hungarian YouTube videos I've found, it probably doesn't need to be a specifically Japanese inspiration. I'd just LOVE for archery to take a more prominent role both on foot and on horse.

Also, you should be able to cut out your opponents still beating hearts with an obsidian knife

*has the sudden urge to give Link a crysknife*
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Offline noname2200

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7598 on: September 06, 2012, 01:03:13 AM »
I just like exploring a world crammed with secrets while killing a bunch of enemies with my sword 'n stuff.

You could still do that in an Aztec universe.

Aztec swords just aren't the same... :'(

Offline Sarail

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #7599 on: September 06, 2012, 01:41:49 AM »

As cliche as it is, I still want a steampunk Zelda. Imagine the dungeon puzzles! :D x 10000000

Majora's Mask's "Great Bay Temple" and Skyward Sword's "Lanyru Mining Facility" say hi.
They do? Because those aren't really steampunk in design.
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