Author Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*  (Read 3167729 times)

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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6425 on: April 11, 2012, 01:12:14 PM »

Like the Wii U spec rumors, I think we have to take the PS4/Xbox Next rumors with a grain of salt.  I could see Sony or Microsoft deciding to attempt to lock out Used Games,  but I find it unlikely that both would make that same mistake, especially Sony given their severe financial woes of late. They really can't afford that sort of high-risk, grand-scale experiment right now.

I was pretty suspicious of the PS/Xbox next gen rumors, but over the course of the last two months there have been quotes splashed every other day on Gamespot by high-profile devs complaining about how bad used games are for the industry. It feels like the third parties are linking arms and putting the pressure on Sony/MS to move to an always-on DRM system or at the very least charge for access to used games. Which would be bogus and demonstrate the industry's continued confusion about what ownership is and what the nature of its product is. I think they're longer-term really itching to move to all-digital-download, so they can hack up games to their hearts desire and sell them piece by piece.

Nintendo might luck into a superior market position this time around by being a generation behind as far as shiesty business practices go.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6426 on: April 11, 2012, 01:25:08 PM »

Like the Wii U spec rumors, I think we have to take the PS4/Xbox Next rumors with a grain of salt.  I could see Sony or Microsoft deciding to attempt to lock out Used Games,  but I find it unlikely that both would make that same mistake, especially Sony given their severe financial woes of late. They really can't afford that sort of high-risk, grand-scale experiment right now.

I was pretty suspicious of the PS/Xbox next gen rumors, but over the course of the last two months there have been quotes splashed every other day on Gamespot by high-profile devs complaining about how bad used games are for the industry. It feels like the third parties are linking arms and putting the pressure on Sony/MS to move to an always-on DRM system or at the very least charge for access to used games. Which would be bogus and demonstrate the industry's continued confusion about what ownership is and what the nature of its product is. I think they're longer-term really itching to move to all-digital-download, so they can hack up games to their hearts desire and sell them piece by piece.

Nintendo might luck into a superior market position this time around by being a generation behind as far as shiesty business practices go.

We'll see, I still don't think Sony and MS are going to be that dumb regardless of the rumors. It just seems like suicide for either of them to restrict used games.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6427 on: April 11, 2012, 01:40:29 PM »
Games make the system.  Do you know what I'll always think of when I reflect on the Wii?  Struggling to play DKC Returns because Nintendo insisted on shoehorning some broken, unresponsive **** control scheme into every game because it was an effective marketing tool for rubes.  That's the Wii: potentially great games ruined by **** controls.  So I don't give a **** about this tablet nonsense.  All I care about is if the Wii U will have great games.  To do so the design philosophy has to be entirely to make great games and dumbing down a game to have more casual appeal or going with less responsive controls because it makes a good marketing gimmick goes against the philosophy of making great games.  The sheer presence of the tablet is pretty much a big warning sign for me.  Does Nintendo actually have some great ideas that require this thing or did they just notice that the iPad is big and putting that kind of functionality in their system will make a great marketing gimmick?  Having the marketing department design the controller is a HORRIBLE idea.

Regarding the specs of the system, Nintendo really just needs to make a system that meets the needs and wants of developers.  Last gen third parties wanted to make ONE game that they could port to all platforms.  Nintendo made their system incompatible with that plan so the third party support sucked.  What they need this time is a platform that fits what third parties want to do, whatever the hell that is.  If they do that it doesn't matter what the specs are.  You make the system that developers want to make games for and then the resulting good game selection will attract the gamers.

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6428 on: April 11, 2012, 01:57:25 PM »
At least this time Ian the new controller isn't a 1 or the other type of thing. All the necessary functions are in this controller without having to resort to another controller that people may not have. I think more than anyone you are going to eat up the tablet when it comes out. If only for quicker weapon switches and a clean screen on the tv.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6429 on: April 11, 2012, 01:59:06 PM »
Does Nintendo actually have some great ideas that require this thing or did they just notice that the iPad is big and putting that kind of functionality in their system will make a great marketing gimmick?  Having the marketing department design the controller is a HORRIBLE idea.
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Offline FZeroBoyo

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6430 on: April 11, 2012, 02:30:04 PM »
Anyone remember how word of a 3DS headset popped up a while back? Well, GoNintendo put up a rumor to add to that.
http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=175301

And for memory's sake, here's the original account from Nintendo Life:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/10/officially_licensed_3ds_headset_revealed_priced_and_dated
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6431 on: April 11, 2012, 02:50:13 PM »
At least this time Ian the new controller isn't a 1 or the other type of thing. All the necessary functions are in this controller without having to resort to another controller that people may not have. I think more than anyone you are going to eat up the tablet when it comes out. If only for quicker weapon switches and a clean screen on the tv.

Yes. There is nothing that people deemed "offensive" about the tablet controller who actually held it. It is a pretty traditional controller, just with a touch capable screen. That to me sounds like a positive evolution as long as it isn't uncomfortable to hold. The Wii mote had issues, but it still provided for some ground breaking titles like Skyward Sword with its motion controls, despite what I might think of the overall game, the motion controls were great and added to my enjoyment, not subtracted from it.

Controllers and input methods always go through bumpy patches, just go back to the N64 controller or even the NES's original pad, and neither are a perfect controller (the N64 was limited and clunky at times with some games, and the NES wasn't that comfortable), in fact they are quite flawed compared to what we have now. Motion controls are still going to be apart of gaming in some form, maybe not on the level of the analog stick on the N64, but will always be there in some form. The Wii may have been a flawed system but it has many wonderful games that complement it as well.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 02:57:44 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6432 on: April 11, 2012, 03:00:23 PM »
Games make the system.  Do you know what I'll always think of when I reflect on the Wii?  Struggling to play DKC Returns because Nintendo insisted on shoehorning some broken, unresponsive **** control scheme into every game because it was an effective marketing tool for rubes.  That's the Wii: potentially great games ruined by **** controls.  So I don't give a **** about this tablet nonsense.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we need to worry quite as much about the tablet controller. The Tablet's gimmick is a touch screen, which could be annoying if games shoe horn that in where it isn't needed, but from having played the DS at least we can be sure the touch screen will be precise and not hit or miss like the wiimote and its waggle controller is.

But the real danger is there is more to the tablet controller than just a touch screen. Apparently it also has gyroscopes and accelerometers, and the E3 presentation last year demonstrated it being used to catch a baseball and things like that. I think this is the area we need to worry about, because this is where things can get really imprecise and wonky.

Another thing we should keep in mind is the Wiimote itself isn't actually dead, because again at E3 2011 they showed that all the Wii accessories we know and "love" will be forward compatible on the Wii U. So once again we may have to deal with that imprecise waggle instead of just doing a button press. But what makes me hopeful is that the Wiimote gimmick is old news now, so it doesn't need to be "proven" like it needed to be on the Wii, so that means developers don't have to shoe horn it into their games. Unfortunately, they still can and probably will in many cases, but at least there isn't the same pressure on them to do it this time.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 03:04:03 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6433 on: April 11, 2012, 03:07:53 PM »
Anyone remember how word of a 3DS headset popped up a while back? Well, GoNintendo put up a rumor to add to that.
http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=175301

And for memory's sake, here's the original account from Nintendo Life:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/10/officially_licensed_3ds_headset_revealed_priced_and_dated

I like how the first response is that the that the 3DS Headset has already been confirmed.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6434 on: April 11, 2012, 03:13:10 PM »
Games make the system.  Do you know what I'll always think of when I reflect on the Wii?  Struggling to play DKC Returns because Nintendo insisted on shoehorning some broken, unresponsive **** control scheme into every game because it was an effective marketing tool for rubes.  That's the Wii: potentially great games ruined by **** controls.  So I don't give a **** about this tablet nonsense.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we need to worry quite as much about the tablet controller. The Tablet's gimmick is a touch screen, which could be annoying if games shoe horn that in where it isn't needed, but from having played the DS at least we can be sure the touch screen will be precise and not hit or miss like the wiimote and its waggle controller is.

But the real danger is there is more to the tablet controller than just a touch screen. Apparently it also has gyroscopes and accelerometers, and the E3 presentation last year demonstrated it being used to catch a baseball and things like that. I think this is the area we need to worry about, because this is where things can get really imprecise and wonky.

Another thing we should keep in mind is the Wiimote itself isn't actually dead, because again at E3 2011 they showed that all the Wii accessories we know and "love" will be forward compatible on the Wii U. So once again we may have to deal with that imprecise waggle instead of just doing a button press. But what makes me hopeful is that the Wiimote gimmick is old news now, so it doesn't need to be "proven" like it needed to be on the Wii, so that means developers don't have to shoe horn it into their games. Unfortunately, they still can and probably will in many cases, but at least there isn't the same pressure on them to do it this time.

The people who shoehorn it in will likely have games no one cares about. The competent developers will do what they feel works best for their game and their vision. People forget the PS3 has the six-axis motion capability, and while a couple top games used it to a detrimental effect (leading to Factor 5's destruction), the games that matter don't use it unnecessarily for the most part, or it can be turned off. Fact is this, the Wii U will be packaged with a tablet, which has all the functionality of a typical controller, with other features that can be used or not used. Developers no longer have to fear whether someone has, for example, a classic controller or not.

The tablet controller, and yes the Wii Mote provide OPTIONS which is NEVER a bad thing, especially when the initial obsession to use every feature wears off. Just look at the NIntendo DS when it first came out, developers felt the need to use most if not all the features, but after a year or so things calmed down, some games that could benefit from, let's say, the touch screen were crafted, while others that wouldn't were crafted with more traditional controls.

My guess is that the tablet controller will be beneficial most for a second display screen, and everything else will be based on a game to game decision by the creator and what their vision is. Perhaps one of the biggest blunders, arguably, NIntendo made with Wii was not including the classic controller with every console. I see none of those issues cropping up with Wii U.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 03:20:07 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Stogi

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6435 on: April 11, 2012, 04:12:01 PM »
The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed...

And you need to stop using italics. heh

Anyway, remember Miyamoto talking about how HD lends itself to Pikmin. Does anyone get the feeling that Miyamoto is going to blow every single HD game that has come before it out of the water?
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6436 on: April 11, 2012, 05:50:02 PM »
Does anyone get the feeling that Miyamoto is going to blow every single HD game that has come before it out of the water?

Of course, all of Nintendo's games for the Wii U will blow away anything on the 360/PS3.  The Zelda and Bird demo from last years E3 already looked better then 99% of all 360/PS3 games and those were done on early Wii U hardware that was weaker then the final hardware.  The games Nintendo shows on the final hardware are going to look amazing.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6437 on: April 11, 2012, 06:14:51 PM »
I figure Nintendo will either deliver some HD games that will blow everyone away or ones that wouldn't even stand out on the Wii.  Nintendo can and does make great looking games, when they want to.  However since the Gamecube they also are known to make very unexceptional looking games and then reuse those "bare minimum" models in other games.  You see it with the Miis and many of the Mario spin-offs.  With something like Zelda or Pikmin we're going to get really nice looking games.  Any new Mario Party of Wii Sports is going to look no different than what we have now.  Nintendo demostrated NSMB Wii U and it looked no different from the NSMB Wii.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6438 on: April 11, 2012, 06:16:30 PM »
Other than in style, how could you improve NSMB? That's the question people refuse to ask themselves.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6439 on: April 11, 2012, 06:35:26 PM »
Other than in style, how could you improve NSMB? That's the question people refuse to ask themselves.

More unique characters (instead of two generic toads), higher polygon models, and better animation would be a good start.  The problem with your question, though, is that the game's art style is at the heart of what's wrong with the way that game looks IMO.

If you're going to make a 2D game, make it the most gorgeous 2D game anyone's ever seen, with fluid and detailed animation and a great sense of style (such as Rayman Origins or WaveForward's A Boy & His Blob and Bloodrayne Betrayal).  The New Super Mario Bros. games just feel cheap and lazy to me whenever I look at them, lacking both Retro's boldness and the charm of the old 2D Mario games.  If the game had the sheer energy and creativity of DKCR or the sheer gorgeousness of something like a Trine 2 (both of which also use the "3D character on 2D plane" style), I would have probably liked the game a lot better with this concept.  But I really would have preferred a straight-up 2D Mario revival over the hybrid that Nintendo went with.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 06:38:26 PM by broodwars »
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6440 on: April 11, 2012, 06:53:07 PM »
Other than in style, how could you improve NSMB? That's the question people refuse to ask themselves.

More unique characters (instead of two generic toads), higher polygon models, and better animation would be a good start.  The problem with your question, though, is that the game's art style is at the heart of what's wrong with the way that game looks IMO.

If you're going to make a 2D game, make it the most gorgeous 2D game anyone's ever seen, with fluid and detailed animation and a great sense of style (such as Rayman Origins or WaveForward's A Boy & His Blob and Bloodrayne Betrayal).  The New Super Mario Bros. games just feel cheap and lazy to me whenever I look at them, lacking both Retro's boldness and the charm of the old 2D Mario games.  If the game had the sheer energy and creativity of DKCR or the sheer gorgeousness of something like a Trine 2 (both of which also use the "3D character on 2D plane" style), I would have probably liked the game a lot better with this concept.  But I really would have preferred a straight-up 2D Mario revival over the hybrid that Nintendo went with.

Have to agree, while I enjoyed NSMB for Wii, it was pretty uninspired visually in more ways then one, and was hardly pushing the Wii's hardware.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6441 on: April 11, 2012, 07:04:57 PM »
True...but NSMB was a fun game, that really played like a classic Mario game.  The game was "cheap" in that it probably wasn't the most difficult game for Nintendo to develop nor did it push the system...but does every game have to do that? 

The game delivers the fun, and that to me is all that matters.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6442 on: April 11, 2012, 07:05:20 PM »
The whole Mii system needs a drastic overhaul. I'd like it to be as advanced as the options to create your own wrestlers in the WWE 12 game. You should be able to make Miis which are extremely detailed and realistic like a real person, instead of a goofy cartoon character that looks like something from the N64.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6443 on: April 11, 2012, 07:07:14 PM »
Other than in style, how could you improve NSMB? That's the question people refuse to ask themselves.

The problem with your question, though, is that the game's art style is at the heart of what's wrong with the way that game looks IMO.

That's not the problem with my question...that is my POINT. Art style rules all.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6444 on: April 11, 2012, 07:13:28 PM »
The whole Mii system needs a drastic overhaul. I'd like it to be as advanced as the options to create your own wrestlers in the WWE 12 game. You should be able to make Miis which are extremely detailed and realistic like a real person, instead of a goofy cartoon character that looks like something from the N64.
If that's what you're looking for, you've missed the entire point of the Miis. They're supposed to be goofy cartoon characters. That's what makes them charming and inviting.

Offline broodwars

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6445 on: April 11, 2012, 07:17:16 PM »
I'm fine with the whole "cartoony" nature of the Miis.  I just wish they were actually cartoonish using something like a Tales of Symphonia/Vesperia-ish cel-shaded art style instead of a mass of simple shapes that wouldn't look out of place in the early years of the GameCube.  If the Miis are to change, that's the direction I'd really like to see them go.  I have my 360 Avatar for the whole "more realistic" look.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6446 on: April 11, 2012, 07:19:22 PM »
The whole Mii system needs a drastic overhaul. I'd like it to be as advanced as the options to create your own wrestlers in the WWE 12 game. You should be able to make Miis which are extremely detailed and realistic like a real person, instead of a goofy cartoon character that looks like something from the N64.

That would take away from the point of Miis and make them a lot less approachable. While I agree that Miis need more customization options, I like the look of them (or at least I'm used to it) and don't think they need to be particularly realistic. The more realistic they look, the less I feel you can do with them. Imagine Leon Kennedy in Mario Party. He'd look out of place. Or Solid Snake playing tennis. That would be funny but unusual.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6447 on: April 11, 2012, 07:21:17 PM »
Knowing Chozo he just wants an option to change the "bust" of a Mii.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 07:23:24 PM by Stogi »
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6448 on: April 11, 2012, 07:43:41 PM »
Warioland: Shake It and DKC Returns have similar art styles to NSMB and just absolutely smoke it in every way possible.  NSMB could look WAY better.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #6449 on: April 11, 2012, 07:56:05 PM »
Why can't the option exist for Miis to be both cartoony and realistic? Why can't it be up to personal preference for a person to decide which one they would rather use? I don't see why it can't be both. Isn't providing people with options always a good thing?

Whether anyone here agrees or not, some people are turned off by cartoony art styles. These are the same people who slam Nintendo as being "kiddie". If Nintendo ever wants to win them back, allowing for realistic Miis would be a small step in the right direction.


Anyway, cartoony or realistic doesn't change the fact that the options for creating Miis are extremely limited. There is only a small set of options for clothing, hair, eyes, noses, etc. This needs to be greatly expanded. There were times I've wanted to make Miis of certain celebrities and I've found the options available to be extremely lacking for what I wanted to do.

Imagine for a moment that the Wii U came bundled with something like Mario Paint which would allow people to take the time to go into as much detail in creating their Miis as they would like. How could that possible be a bad thing? Are you saying Miis should stay locked into the same 20 or so set choices and that's it? It should never be improved or expanded beyond that?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 08:01:53 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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