Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Mop it up]

I disagree about the motion controls thing, especially since the Nunchuk and Classic Controller exist, but that's neither here nor there.

Well, no, that's a whole point. Some developers just flat out don't want to finagle with motion controls and the Classic Controller cost extra. It didn't come with the Wii. That made supporting it less desirable.

That didn't make it riskier for Nintendo, though. The motion controls were the draw of the system, so they had to be front and center.

[Caterkiller]

So I shouldn't say this because it may cause more hysteria. But I was told that prototype development Wii U kits from way back had only one Upad usable. That was a long time ago and this person knows nothing about current development kits. So keep this expectation reserved and hopefully Nintendo pleasantly surprises us when their first sizzle reel shows 2-4 people in local multiplayer, all with Upads. But hey it's a negative rumor about Nintendo, must be true right?

There is a big Pokemon rumor out. But I can not find the source. They say it's from the soon to be released Corocoro where all new pokemon info is always released. Lot's of details, may be fake, but with the game coming out so soon I can't help but think this info will be a part of the massive blow out expected to come from the magazine and the Pokemon show this sunday.

I'm going to reserve my judgement because no one has truly proved it real or fake.

http://images.4chan.org/vp/src/1334041049902.png

[Evan_B]

Sweet jebas, if this was true... This would change the friggin' Smogon tiers like crazy.

Personally, I'd welcome it. The Gen V Pokemon were weak anyway, this would make me like Gen V a LOT LOT LOT more.

[Adrock]

That didn't make it riskier for Nintendo, though. The motion controls were the draw of the system, so they had to be front and center.

I don't know if I'm just not explaining this well enough. Asking 3rd parties to adopt motion controls without question was an absurd proposition. Nintendo should have offered both motion and traditional controls equally and let developers decide what was right for them because some games are just not appropriate for one or the other. By making traditional controls are far less convenient option, Nintendo put themselves in a much worse position. That's what made it riskier and needlessly so. Consumers were drawn to motion controls; developers not so much. Some experimented and that's great but I think Nintendo did themselves a great disservice by downplaying the Classic Controller to the point where they didn't even include one with the system.

[Mop it up]

Riskier in what sense? Nintendo still made a profit on the Nintendo 64 and GameCube, so they don't need third-party support and can survive by themselves. The Wii wasn't risky in that sense, even if it sold a quarter of what it did, it'd still have been profitable.

[Adrock]

They may not need 3rd party support but they want it and clearly they didn't get a whole lot of it this generation despite all the consoles they sold. If Nintendo didn't think they made a mistake on that front, they wouldn't be trying so hard to reach out to 3rd parties now. They left a lot of money on the table.

And what if motion controls failed miserably? Nintendo would have been sitting on millions of units that didn't have the controller that developers and consumers wanted. Sound pretty risky to me.

[Mop it up]

Well, releasing a new system is always risky no matter what, but I believe Nintendo chose the path of the least risky. But Nintendo did research and they knew the Wii would find an audience, they just didn't know how big. Even so, if their Wii strategy failed then it still would have left them with enough money to try some other home system, but there's a lot of ifs involved there (like how many did it end up selling and all that) so I won't get into that now. Their focus was their own survival, and third-parties didn't factor into that at the time. Things are different now, and third-parties factor in now because Nintendo is aiming for expansion rather than simply trying to stay in the home console market.

[Chozo Ghost]

Here's the thing: Nintendo had to be conservative with the Wii, or else it would have been very risky.

I just want to interject and point out that being too excessively conservative is also taking a risk of sorts. I don't think this will happen with the Wii U, but if Nintendo had really cheaped out on the hardware and made only the bare minimum of updates in order to pull off the new controller gimmick and HD there would have been a strong possibility both the market and developers would have wanted nothing to do with it.

Again, I don't think that's the case because from the rumors we are hearing it seems like at least most developers are pleased with it. But it was something Nintendo could have done.

Maybe the best example I can think of where a console went too conservative and ended up failing as a result is the Atari 5200 which was the sequel to the far more popular Atari 2600. The 5200 was an extremely minor and insignificant improvement over the 2600, so the market rejected it. It was just too similar to the console that came out before.

Then Atari made the same mistake all over again by following the 5200 up with the 7800 which was yet again another minor incremental improvement over its predecessor.

One thing Nintendo has shown with the Wii is that the market will be willing to tolerate an incremental hardware improvement, so long as there is some major gimmick or other selling point to go with it. In the case of the Wii there was of course the motion controls, and as a result of that people were able to accept that it was just a Gamecube on steroids. But the Atari 5200 and 7800 didn't have anything like that. Same basic controls and same basic software, with just minor graphical improvements.

Was going conservative with the Wii hardware a risky move on the part of Nintendo? Well, if the motion gaming aspect wasn't there the whole thing would have flopped. So I think Nintendo was taking somewhat of a gamble, albeit a very educated one.

[Dasmos]

Wow, this thread sure turned into a floundering cesspool of pessimism fast. I'm not however suprised who instigated the negativity, it's the same jugheads who always do.

[UncleBob]

Wow, this thread sure turned into a floundering cesspool of pessimism fast. I'm not however suprised who instigated the negativity, it's the same jugheads who always do.

Nintendo is D))MEDDDD!!!

<cue those mocking the "Nintendo is doomed" mockers>

Seriously, forget you all - Day 1 WiiU purchase, right here, baby.

[BeautifulShy]

Wow, this thread sure turned into a floundering cesspool of pessimism fast. I'm not however suprised who instigated the negativity, it's the same jugheads who always do.

What can people do? This thread is the thread of negativity. Rumors are always bound to have speculation and that always causes conflict and confict leads to 2 sides and if not dealt correctly it leads pessimism. I am thinking of a Yoda quote from Star Wars right now which would be appropriate here...

[Dasmos]

What can people do?

People can wait. People can not jump to conclusions and get ahead of themselves based on absolutely nothing. And sure this can go both ways, people get ahead of themselves and over-hype everything. But isn't it more conducive to discussion and active participation in discussion to conduct this in a positive way rather than a negative one, especially when most of the stuff people are arguing over is speculation and opinion?

But hey, we're probably doomed to see the same posters spouting their same stagnant opinions over even more stagnant discussions forever.

[BeautifulShy]

What can people do?

People can wait. People can not jump to conclusions and get ahead of themselves based on absolutely nothing. And sure this can go both ways, people get ahead of themselves and over-hype everything. But isn't it more conducive to discussion and active participation in discussion to conduct this in a positive way rather than a negative one, especially when most of the stuff people are arguing over is speculation and opinion?

But hey, we're probably doomed to see the same posters spouting their same stagnant opinions over even more stagnant discussions forever.

Well you are right about that first part it is usually a good idea to go about the positive way and the informed way. I mean I have heard that this forum be called the best Nintendo Forum out there in the past. I haven't really been feeling it lately though. Also the members here are I have been told the brightest out the in the Nintendo Forums. Hmm I wonder if that is still true. I know the forums have pretty much shifted as far as mood and I think that has to do with a number of factors. Different personalities, active forum members becoming staff, and members leaving.

I guess what I am getting at is that if you are unsure about a rumor or something go do the research yourself. Don't believe everything you hear.I know we become lazy and we want everything given to us on a silver platter but when become lazy then become lax and then we become irritable and that can can lead to something like this thread.

Oh by the way Dasmos that wasn't really directed at you it was directed at the people arguing in the thread.

[Adrock]

I don't really get the negativity. Aside from some dissenting comments from annonymous sources, we've been hearing nothing but good things from people who matter and aren't afraid to put their money where their mouth is. The only thing I would have liked to have seen (as in an actual video or pic of) is 2 tablet controllers being used on a single console. That's the 1 thing that hasn't been confirmed though I recall someone from Nintendo of Europe saying something along the lines of "We never said there would only be 1 per console" but that's still not a confirmation.

Otherwise, I haven't been this excited about Nintendo hardware since the Gamecube, maybe even the Nintendo 64. I have a PS3 so I don't need a Wii U for 3rd party titles but I'm excited all the same. I'm excited when I hear new titles announced. People seem to be waiting for Nintendo to screw up and so far they really haven't. There are a few nuisances like the console not supporting Blu Ray movie playback and even that's not a big deal. Everything else from the 25GB discs to Nintendo Network has been good news. Anyone who is viewing Wii U negatively at this juncture is looking for something negative to be worried about. Everyone was caught with their pants down with the Wii. With Wii U, Nintendo has already admitted that they've been more open with 3rd parties and have actively sought their thoughts and suggestions. And it shows. 3rd parties love the thing and are actually announcing games instead of saying "we'll look into it."

[NWR_insanolord]

The problem right now is if you're looking at things sanely and reasonably you get caught in the crossfire between two sources of obnoxiousness. One one hand you've got the people who are immediately ready to believe the worst about Nintendo and are endlessly negative and pessimistic, yet still come here for some reason, and then on the opposite side are the people who get angry any time someone says something even remotely negative, even when it's clearly justified. I love these forums dearly, but they're in kind of a bad way recently, and I'm not sure how to get them out of it, which is probably my job as King of the Forums.

[Louieturkey]

I feel like these forums are starting to allow the bad vibes that the rest of the industry throws at Nintendo to seep into the conversations.  So the more people who allow that, the more pessimism and infighting occur.  I think it has gone on for a couple years now, especially since all the 3rd party games that "core" gamers want are all going to the 360/PS3.

I also think Nintendo allowed these bad vibes to fester.  I always believed that the Wii should have been a 4 year system at most due to being so underpowered.  So when the other systems were able to do motion controls similar to the Wii and have the better graphics, the Wii started to get more and more of those bad vibes. 

I used to be a diehard Nintendo fan and always buy the Nintendo system first before even thinking about the other systems.  The WiiU doesn't excite me like the N64,GCN and Wii did when hearing the rumors and speculation and the game videos leading up to launch.

My real hope is that Nintendo blows me away when the truly reveal the WiiU and all its capabilities.  If it does that, I think the negativity on these forums will slowly, but surely, dissipate and it'll be like the first coupld years of the Wii again.

[Evan_B]

Rumors lead to speculation.

Speculation leads to fear.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hatred.

Hatred leads to the Dark Side.

All that we have been discussing is, in fact, speculation. You can pick and choose what rumors you want to believe in, but when it all comes down to it, this is a forum about Nintendo discussion. Hell, it's a forum about loving Nintendo. I came here to gush and be excited about this console. I'm excited, what else can I say? I want pretty Nintendo games, and I want reviewing websites to start treating Nintendo like it's not on a different level because of its poor graphical ability. I want to play online Nintendo games- I want to SEE how Nintendo makes online games. Those are the things I would like to talk about.

But this is what has currently been happening, and you can't blame people for getting up in arms about it. Rumors are something, and at a time when we've been hearing nothing solid about the Wii U, we'll take anything we can get.

[Chozo Ghost]

I love these forums dearly, but they're in kind of a bad way recently, and I'm not sure how to get them out of it, which is probably my job as King of the Forums.

You could use your power as "king of the forums" to ban everyone you don't agree with. Then everyone who remains would be in agreement with you, and then there'd be happy times with no disagreement or argument whatsoever.

But isn't it more conducive to discussion and active participation in discussion to conduct this in a positive way rather than a negative one,

No. If everyone only praises everything Nintendo does and never criticizes them over anything they do wrong then there would be no discussion whatsoever. There has to be someone to tell it like it is, even if what it is isn't pretty.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't think Neal would be happy with me if I started banning people for disagreeing with me. I can dream, though.

[Ceric]

I honestly think a lot of it is there isn't much engaging Nintendo news really at the moment.  This is how it is right before an E3 that we know will be huge.  I think things will become better again when we have WiiU and like.

[Ian Sane]

If insanolord can ban people for disagreeing with him then we're all fucked because we all like Super Mario World and A Link to the Past.

My pessimism regarding the Wii U stems from utter distrust in Nintendo.  The N64 and Gamecube years were rough but I felt that overall Nintendo and I were still on the same page.  I became a Nintendo fan because of their commitment to quality and innovation.  They rarely made bad games and were incredibly ambitious and creative with their games, even when making sequels.  With the Wii, they compromised those qualities.  They just took it too far and lost my trust.  Everyone has a breaking point and they pushed me past it.  So, **** it, they want to patch things up they have to EARN my trust all over again.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think E3 is going to be a real turning point. If Nintendo hits it out of the park with the Wii U presentation and keeps building on the 3DS, I think the forums will settle down and get back to where they were before. If E3 is a disappointment, though, this is going to get way worse.

It's clear that the lack of solid information is what's causing this, and as this is a discussion forum, if we're not given information to discuss we're going to be prone to speculation to fill that void. The near-total lack of quality Wii software in the last year combined with the rocky start to the 3DS have got people pessimistic, at least somewhat understandably so. The 3DS has really come around now and boasts a pretty impressive lineup for being just over a year old, so I think that gives people a better attitude, and if Nintendo has a strong showing at E3, as I'm sure we all hope is the case, I think things will calm down.

This is shaping up to be one of the most important E3s Nintendo's ever had, and I can't wait to see what they have in store.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I honestly think a lot of it is there isn't much engaging Nintendo news really at the moment.  This is how it is right before an E3 that we know will be huge.  I think things will become better again when we have WiiU and like.

Probably the most likely reason, when new is slow people will jump on any little bit of information, even if it is just a rumor. At the moment I put the most stock in what Nintendo has said, and what non-anonymous developers have said. Everything else is rumor and speculation, though sometimes speculation can be fun to discuss as well.

[Chozo Ghost]

The explanation for all the pessimism regarding Nintendo is really very simple. Its because a lot of people got burned on the Wii, or at least felt disappointed with it. There are also a lot of people who were satisfied or happy with the Wii and that's perfectly fine, but I think the people who love the Wii have a hard time understanding where those who didn't like the Wii are coming from.

But anyway, that's all there is to it. The pessimism regarding the Wii U stems from the disappointment over the Wii. A lot of us are worried its going to be an underpowered system relative to the competition. That's a perfectly reasonable and rational thing to be worried about, because that's exactly what just happened in the present generation.

A lot of the pessimism went away when many developers began talking about being pleased with the Wii U hardware. The only thing which has changed recently was the anonymous rumors that the system was weaker than the PS360. This ignited a fresh wave of pessimism that wasn't there a few weeks ago.

But those of you who don't like the air of pessimism don't have to worry, because its not going to last. One of two things is going to happen in the near future: 1) It will be revealed that the Wii U will be a satisfactorily powerful system which will prove those rumors were just bullshit, or 2) It will be revealed that the Wii U really is as weak as those rumors suggest, and if that's the case we don't need to worry about it being that way because then we will know for certain it is that way. Well, actually I guess the second one won't really get rid of the pessimism, but it would certainly validate it.

[Adrock]

A lot of the pessimism went away when many developers began talking about being pleased with the Wii U hardware. The only thing which has changed recently was the anonymous rumors that the system was weaker than the PS360. This ignited a fresh wave of pessimism that wasn't there a few weeks ago.

See, that is the part that people don't understand. That means any Joe Schmoe with an imagination and an internet connection can run his mouth without even a lick of evidence supporting his claims and pessimists are going eat it up. How does that even make any sense? How does some anonymous source invalidate months of good will and good news? That's what makes pessimism so exhausting to be around and why people (not even just the optimists) are like, "Uh, what just happened?"

If a complete stranger gave you a bowl of something and you don't know what it is or what's in it and they just insist that it's edible, would you eat that? I wouldn't and that's why I brushed off those reports. There's a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Then again, I suppose if you were hungry enough, you'd eat it so I understand the stance that we're starved for news and it's easy to grasp onto something that comes along even if it's unhealthy. I kind of wish some of the people who were praising Wii U weeks and months ago would step forward and say, "Yeah, I don't know what the hell that's about. All nonsense, don't listen to it."