Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[bustin98]

Technically, the different frequencies can be considered different colors, but none of them are visible by the human eye. The color we see is the visible spectrum at different frequencies. Different types of eyes have an altered set of visible spectrum (bee eyes, for instance). The 'white' light of IR shown on the Wii calibration and cameras is just how the camera interprets the signal. If we could see IR, we'd probably just call it 'red'.

[Ian Sane]

I really question the idea that Nintendo making such awesome games contributes to third parties bailing.  The Xbox 360 has no issues but you know that if you put your game up against Halo it is going to get squashed just the same as you would going against Mario.  Plus there are third party franchises like Call of Duty that also dominate.  No matter where you go there will be some big fish that attract the most attention.  To single out Nintendo is stupid.
 

Honestly we could be getting Wii Plan B controller wise.  What Nintendo would have released if Motion needed more baking.

Well it really does sound like a conventional follow-up to the Gamecube.  And the de-emphasis on motion control makes it sound like it has little to do with the Wii.  Maybe Nintendo plans on keeping the Wii around as the "casual brand" and will keep releasing Wii Series games on it while this new system is the more "serious" videogame system.  Like this is for the gamers and the casuals can continue with their Wiis, since they don't really need anything more than that.
 
Or it might just be that those spreading the rumours know that that the audience for these rumours is less interested in the motion control aspect so they don't talk about it that much.

[Sarail]

I really question the idea that Nintendo making such awesome games contributes to third parties bailing.  The Xbox 360 has no issues but you know that if you put your game up against Halo it is going to get squashed just the same as you would going against Mario.  Plus there are third party franchises like Call of Duty that also dominate.  No matter where you go there will be some big fish that attract the most attention.  To single out Nintendo is stupid.
 

Honestly we could be getting Wii Plan B controller wise.  What Nintendo would have released if Motion needed more baking.

Well it really does sound like a conventional follow-up to the Gamecube.  And the de-emphasis on motion control makes it sound like it has little to do with the Wii.  Maybe Nintendo plans on keeping the Wii around as the "casual brand" and will keep releasing Wii Series games on it while this new system is the more "serious" videogame system.  Like this is for the gamers and the casuals can continue with their Wiis, since they don't really need anything more than that.

This. This is what I'm expecting and hoping for from Nintendo. They can definitely keep the Wii brand alive and separate from this new console... just as Sony kept the PS2 alive for several years after the PS3 released.  There can be a harmonious split between the two distinct crowds -- the other doesn't have to end just because.

[Ceric]

I really question the idea that Nintendo making such awesome games contributes to third parties bailing.  The Xbox 360 has no issues but you know that if you put your game up against Halo it is going to get squashed just the same as you would going against Mario.  Plus there are third party franchises like Call of Duty that also dominate.  No matter where you go there will be some big fish that attract the most attention.  To single out Nintendo is stupid.

...

Or it might just be that those spreading the rumours know that that the audience for these rumours is less interested in the motion control aspect so they don't talk about it that much.

Second part of the quote is probably right. 

On the XBox things mentioned,  XBox Live Period.  That is why the XBox is where its at.  The community around it and everything makes the XBox talked about.  Live is to Console Connectivity and Interaction as Nintendo is to Gaming in General.
 

This. This is what I'm expecting and hoping for from Nintendo. They can definitely keep the Wii brand alive and separate from this new console... just as Sony kept the PS2 alive for several years after the PS3 released.  There can be a harmonious split between the two distinct crowds -- the other doesn't have to end just because.

The PS2 didn't live in harmony be plan with the PS3.  If I take anything from that is make sure your BC with the new Console so when people's console dies they'll want to just go ahead and pony for the upgrade.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo tried "rolling out the red carpet" with 3rd parties on the Wii and withheld their own titles. The result of that is the game drought we now see before us. Nintendo reserved some seats at the table for 3rd parties, but the problem is they never showed up. So those seats were left empty and it ended up being a fairly lame party.

Nintendo shouldn't be jerks and do things that will drive 3rd parties away, but they shouldn't kiss their ass either. They should take a neutral approach where they leave the door open and send the invites but leave it at that.

I'm so glad you don't run Nintendo.

Nintendo sightly updated a 2nd/3rd(depending on the market) place last gen console with wiimotes AFTER Xbox360 had already blown it out of the water tech wise. 3rd parties weren't gonna be too enthusiastic about that.

Wii2 & 3DS solve both of those problems, but my guess is that Nintendo needs to stop trying to create "Dream Teams" by being stingy with Dev kits early on and not making it known and available to a majority of 3rd parties until after official announcements and several months before launch.

I understand why they might have done this in the past, such as trying to prevent leaks and only let the privileged few into the VIP clubhouse, rewarding those who participated last round and "incentivizing" others to hop on board to get in on the next big thing in a few years and whatnot, but then you can't expect everyone to be ready for launch, launch window and the rest of the year if they didn't have time to tinker with the hardware and get inspired by new features and available power and possible effects.

Nintendo's practices in the past mixed with Sony and MS's pandering of today has made it so that Nintendo needs to get back into the dating game and learn how to flirt and mingle all over again. They don't need to look like a desperate sucker by buying every girl in the bar a drink, but they've got to be willing to do what it takes to pursue the ones that they want.

If they gotta take R* out to a fancy Surf & Turf dinner, then so be it, as long as they end up in bed together, it's all worth it in the end. You can't just show up to the club in a new fancy red car and expect all the girls to just jump in on sight. And once you net all the popular ones, the smaller ones will follow.

So I say roll out the red carpet, send out all your invites early, announce your open bar, your DJ and all the A-list celebrities that are attending and make this a party to remember. You gotta spend money to make money, and the amount of money they would spend courting a few of the AAA devs would pale in comparison to the amount of money they would make from the fanfare that would come with those devs showing favorable support.



To everyone else, I guess I should have stated that I know IR light is not visible to the naked eye, which is why I mentioned only being able to see it using a camera. When I mentioned it being a different "color" I meant in a way that the camera would be able to tell which IR was which without mixing them up, not that we would be able to see it and know the difference.
Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera? Because I don't see how a camera would track individual controllers otherwise.

[Ceric]

I sort of like the Wii's approach of letting the camera handle the tracking.  That way the light source isn't moving but the camera with the wider field of vision is.
 
I have the hardest time with the Move doing it the other way.

[Stogi]

It makes it seem like Project Cafe would be a sort of gaming hub for the living room that can use the TV & the screens or just the screens themselves."

This is exactly what I have been thinking of each time I chew on these rumors, and I hope it's true. Why? Because unless you live alone, there are going to be disputes on when you can play, what you can play, and where you can play. Providing a central hub for games that both work with your TV and cordless portable mini-systems eliminates that confrontation and provides a massive amount of flexibility. Nintendo is once again thinking outside the box...literally. No more will you have the console paradigm of: One console, One tv, One game.

If that's what Nintendo is thinking, than I applaud them for being so bold. And I am tempted to buy even more Nintendo stock.

I'm so glad you don't run Nintendo.

I'm kinda glad you don't either...

I want Nintendo to do everything they can sans money to attract third parties. They should allow support for the most popular engines, collaborate on projects, and provide technical support; but they should never, eva eva eva pay them to make a game. That's a slippery slope.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I never said pay them, I just said court them.

You send over early Dev kits and use their input to upgrade/tweak features and all that. Sending over technical specialist (aka engineers) to help them workout some of the finer details, etc etc. basically make them feel like they matter and are not a complete after thought. And I don't see anything wrong with fully or partially funding development if it means it's 100% exclusive. But I never said anything about out right handing over money. Nintendo is not a charity nor are they that desperate sucker at the club.


edit:
and an example of this stuff happening is like Nintendo  going to Capcom to help create the CCPro & Nintendo consulting 3rd parties on the 3DS and it's feature set (which I would assume would be the available shaders and necessary components to get them all to work together efficiently).
Capcom shows appreciation by not only releasing MH3 exclusively on Wii but providing SSFIV @ launch on 3DS.


It's a give take relationship and Nintendo hasn't been willing to give for far to long. 3rd parties have been an afterthought in a way that they are just expected to fall in line. That mentality has to go away now that MS is willing to break the bank to buy support and Sony is willing to build the machine that they all want to support. Nintendo isn't willing to do all that so they need to step up their game and make themselves desirable with out spending wads of cash on bottle service & over tipping waitresses or pulling up in the H5 HUMMER with 6 12" Woofers on 32" chrome rims a lighted ground effect kit & speakers in the grill.

[Stogi]

You gotta spend money to make money

I took that to mean something different I guess.

Still, to use your metaphor, your strategy kinda sounds like that annoying guy outside the club trying to bring people into it.

If I were in charge...(you knew it was coming)

I would be worried about my bottom line, and not anyone else's. If I could make another Wii with even shittier third party support but higher profits, I would do that in a heart beat. If third parties are girls, then I'd be the person puffing on a cigar raking in all the money from craps.

My point is...Make a product people want to buy. If people buy it and third parties want to develop for it, then you did two things right.

[bustin98]

To everyone else, I guess I should have stated that I know IR light is not visible to the naked eye, which is why I mentioned only being able to see it using a camera. When I mentioned it being a different "color" I meant in a way that the camera would be able to tell which IR was which without mixing them up, not that we would be able to see it and know the difference.
Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera? Because I don't see how a camera would track individual controllers otherwise.

This is where I think the rumor has things messed up. Currently the Wii mote has the camera. Different cameras are tracked by their bluetooth assignments. They report their position based on their relative position to the 'sensor' bar. If the controllers hold the IR lights then there wouldn't really be a way to tell the difference unless there is a difference in their blinking pattern, which is how IR remotes for TVs work. The light flashes with a preset pattern to tell the TV what to do. Different frequencies might work, but it seems like the wrong way to go.

[MegaByte]

Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera?

Yes, but only if the camera has the proper sensors/filters to pick up the colors as different.

[Ceric]

To everyone else, I guess I should have stated that I know IR light is not visible to the naked eye, which is why I mentioned only being able to see it using a camera. When I mentioned it being a different "color" I meant in a way that the camera would be able to tell which IR was which without mixing them up, not that we would be able to see it and know the difference.
Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera? Because I don't see how a camera would track individual controllers otherwise.

This is where I think the rumor has things messed up. Currently the Wii mote has the camera. Different cameras are tracked by their bluetooth assignments. They report their position based on their relative position to the 'sensor' bar. If the controllers hold the IR lights then there wouldn't really be a way to tell the difference unless there is a difference in their blinking pattern, which is how IR remotes for TVs work. The light flashes with a preset pattern to tell the TV what to do. Different frequencies might work, but it seems like the wrong way to go.

Agree.  I think the Current way is the better way and I probably add Stereotypic camera, in other words 2 at known distance apart.  At that point you should be able to do 3d calculation to get the point much like a human does.

[bustin98]

Steroscopic system would be much better at telling if the controller is tilted one way or the other as well, though other sensors would be needed to tell if it was upside down or not.

[BlackNMild2k1]

To everyone else, I guess I should have stated that I know IR light is not visible to the naked eye, which is why I mentioned only being able to see it using a camera. When I mentioned it being a different "color" I meant in a way that the camera would be able to tell which IR was which without mixing them up, not that we would be able to see it and know the difference.
Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera? Because I don't see how a camera would track individual controllers otherwise.

This is where I think the rumor has things messed up. Currently the Wii mote has the camera. Different cameras are tracked by their bluetooth assignments. They report their position based on their relative position to the 'sensor' bar. If the controllers hold the IR lights then there wouldn't really be a way to tell the difference unless there is a difference in their blinking pattern, which is how IR remotes for TVs work. The light flashes with a preset pattern to tell the TV what to do. Different frequencies might work, but it seems like the wrong way to go.

The rumor just states that Wii 2 might be able to track the remotes as well as the remotes tracking the sensor bar(assuming new controllers still have Wiimote BC built in).

If the sensor bar has a camera and the controllers have a camera and IR lights, then the camera in the controllers can track the sensor bar as usual and then the camera on the sensor bar can track the controllers like Move. The benefit of this would be extremely precise motion tracking and continuing to have pin point accuracy with a pointer (which move sucks at).

Now that the sensorbar camera (S. Camera) can track the controller, you never have to worry about the fact that you are pointing off the screen. The S. Camera will always know where the controller is and the gyros will always tell how the controller is being held. When the controllers are pointed towards the S. Bar, you continue to have your pointer functionality and basic Wii backwards compatibility.

That was that was the main idea behind my idea for Wii2.0, 2-way tracking, and why I was asking about IR "colors". The Wiimote tracking the sensor bar is one thing as like you said, each wiimote handles that separately, but S. Camera tracking Wiimotes would require it to know which one it was looking at (incase positions get switched during game play).

now I feel slightly motivated to draw up an example, even though I think everyone already knows what I'm talking about.

[Stogi]

I think Bustin hit it on the nail with different patterns. That's the only way I see your idea working unless you attach a giant glowing ball.

[Ceric]

To everyone else, I guess I should have stated that I know IR light is not visible to the naked eye, which is why I mentioned only being able to see it using a camera. When I mentioned it being a different "color" I meant in a way that the camera would be able to tell which IR was which without mixing them up, not that we would be able to see it and know the difference.
Would different frequencies show up as different "colors" to the camera? Because I don't see how a camera would track individual controllers otherwise.

This is where I think the rumor has things messed up. Currently the Wii mote has the camera. Different cameras are tracked by their bluetooth assignments. They report their position based on their relative position to the 'sensor' bar. If the controllers hold the IR lights then there wouldn't really be a way to tell the difference unless there is a difference in their blinking pattern, which is how IR remotes for TVs work. The light flashes with a preset pattern to tell the TV what to do. Different frequencies might work, but it seems like the wrong way to go.

The rumor just states that Wii 2 might be able to track the remotes as well as the remotes tracking the sensor bar(assuming new controllers still have Wiimote BC built in).

If the sensor bar has a camera and the controllers have a camera and IR lights, then the camera in the controllers can track the sensor bar as usual and then the camera on the sensor bar can track the controllers like Move. The benefit of this would be extremely precise motion tracking and continuing to have pin point accuracy with a pointer (which move sucks at).

Now that the sensorbar camera (S. Camera) can track the controller, you never have to worry about the fact that you are pointing off the screen. The S. Camera will always know where the controller is and the gyros will always tell how the controller is being held. When the controllers are pointed towards the S. Bar, you continue to have your pointer functionality and basic Wii backwards compatibility.

That was that was the main idea behind my idea for Wii2.0, 2-way tracking, and why I was asking about IR "colors". The Wiimote tracking the sensor bar is one thing as like you said, each wiimote handles that separately, but S. Camera tracking Wiimotes would require it to know which one it was looking at (incase positions get switched during game play).

now I feel slightly motivated to draw up an example, even though I think everyone already knows what I'm talking about.

Actually,  Super Wii would know approximately where you are already vi the traditional Wiimote method in that scenario so it could just declared that items in this general area is you, general area be the margin of error of the Wiimote, and dial it in that way.  Just as an alternative to the move lollipop approach, which is actually more traditional.

[SixthAngel]

I don't know what to think about these controller rumors.  I like the remote and was looking forward to some great motion tech that takes advantage of their experience and their ability to see what works in the competiion's systems.  I just don't see a screen fitting in with motion at all.

If this stuff is true it seems to me like it's Nintendo's way to bring their handheld and console together.  They give the console two screens this gen so it can play similar games and the next ds will be above 360/ps3 which seems to me like the point where graphics are basically going to peak for most devs due to costs and dimishing returns.  They can then release the new DS as a console/handheld hybrid and thanks to these controllers the games can be played at home on the tv.

[ShyGuy]

I too want to keep the Wii remote. Just make it a little more ergonomic, with more buttons and such.

Long ago I speculated that Nintendo's next console would be a laptop, I should go dig up that post.

[Tanookisuit]

I think the system will use the new screened controller as well as the current Wii Remote Plus controller.  The same way Playstation 3 has the Dualshock and the Move.

[ShyGuy]

The reason I like the wii-remote so much is aiming. I don't prefer dual analog shooters. If the Wiimote+ is available, that's great, But when Red Steel 3 or whatever comes out for the Next gen, will it support the Wiimotion Plus? Probably not.

[NeoStar9X]

I really hope they keep the the Wii remote or at least have a new version. I've never enjoyed FPS so much then I have this generation and it's due to the Wii controller. I can not play FPS with a dual analog controller, at least enjoyably. Offline I can at least get to the end of the game and maybe beat it if difficulty level doesn't skyrocket at the very end (looking at you Killzone 2). Forget online. I can't aimed the way I do with the Wii controls.

[SixthAngel]

I think the system will use the new screened controller as well as the current Wii Remote Plus controller.  The same way Playstation 3 has the Dualshock and the Move.

I will be disappointed if this happens.  I like M+ but its been years since the Wii and they can make it better.  I also don't want to have to buy a ton of controllers when one will almost certainly get most of the support.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Retro's New Wii 2 Game Is Actually Eternal Darkness 2?
http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/04/rumor-retro-studios-big-new-project-cafe-title-is-eternal-darkness-2.html#more

I have no idea on the validity of this site or this rumor. More wait & see, can't wait till E3.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Also in the latest IGN mailbag, they back the Early 2012 release rumor.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/116/1163116p1.html

Q: If the Wii 2 is really launching in late 2012 and is being announced this June, how will we survive the drought of games until the Wii 2's launch? - Secret_Tunnel

A: Two points on this. First, I'm hearing that Nintendo would love to launch in Q1 or Q2 2012 if at all possible. So late 2012 does seem a bit out of the picture… software development pending.

[Chozo Ghost]

I was hoping they could release it holiday season of this year, but since devkits are only now being issued I can understand that this isn't going to be possible because no games are going to ready for that early of a launch. That said, a Q1 or Q2 of 2012 isn't that bad. That's certainly not as far off as the Q4 2012 release date which had been rumored in the past.