Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[BlackNMild2k1]

I hope not, because even though NFL Street was kinda fun, Blitz was the ****.

If you're gonna revive it, do it right, otherwise just leave it alone.

[NWR_insanolord]

I was thinking more "Blitz minus the over-the-top violence," but they amount to pretty much the same thing.

[Mop it up]

I would suggest releasing Blitz without the NFL licence, but it probably wouldn't sell without it. I wonder if they could get away with it if they gave it a more cartoony style?

[Caterkiller]

This probably isn't anyting but IGN being IGN, but there is an article about the Smash Bros series. The only interesting line is this:

We have plenty to say about Smash Bros., and you'll definitely hear more about the franchise in the months to come.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/113/1138536p1.html

Nothing but hogwash if you ask me. Only possibility is a 3DS handheld version, hopefully a new game and not another port if anything at all.

[Adrock]

I still feel like Smash Bros. has run its course. Brawl wasn't a bad game by any means, but outside of the graphics, it did just about everything worse than Melee. I still love the concept of a mascot fighting game though I would like to see Nintendo do something new. If they decide on making a 4th Smash Bros. title, I hope Masahiro Sakurai does not direct it. Before anyone says Smash Bros. is Sakurai's and no one should dare touch it, please keep in mind that Retro Studios, for example, took 2 franchises that existed far before they were even a company and not only did those IPs justice, but made instant classics and arguably some of the best games in those series.

[Spak-Spang]

I actually think that Smash Bros has a lot of life in it left.  However, it needs to be given to a new team and a new director.  The game has run its course over Sakurai's control.  I felt Sakurai brought little to no innovation to the series with Brawl.  However, I think someone could look at the basic design of the game which is very solid, and begin from the ground up redesigning characters, combos, and special moves...basically re-imagine it.  I would love the game to add a little more depth. 

I think a second attack button is much needed, and actually a well designed combo system and string system that is more inline with traditional fighters would be great too. 

I say give Smash Bros to Retro (yes seriously) and let them go to town with it.  No other developer would know how to truly make a great experience with Adventure Mode, multiplayer, and online modes...and I think Retro would take care to truly add innovation to the series.  Sakurai made a great foundation for the series...but I think it must be given to someone that still has passion for the franchise or at least a new outlook to create it right.  Retro would have definitely not done the LAME clone characters and such...

[Dasmos]

True, Sakurai didn't really innovate too much with Brawl, although he fixed the broken train wreck that was Melee.

[Adrock]

I actually think that Smash Bros has a lot of life in it left...

...I think a second attack button is much needed, and actually a well designed combo system and string system that is more inline with traditional fighters would be great too.

You basically just suggested they make an entirely different game because what you described isn't anything remotely resembling Smash Bros. anymore.

True, Sakurai didn't really innovate too much with Brawl, although he fixed the broken train wreck that was Melee.

Ehh... Brawl was still broken, just in different ways.

[Luigi Dude]

Smash Bros Brawl has sold over 9.5 million copies and is guaranteed to eventually cross the 10 million mark by the end of the Wii's lifespan, making it the best selling Smash Bros by a large margin.  The only way the next Smash Bros is made by a different studio and director is if Sakurai decides he doesn't want to make another one.  Of course even then he'd probably still be a producer and still have a lot of control over it's development, since Iwata has made it clear that Smash Bros is Sakurai's series and he gets to decide what happens to it.  Because of this Nintendo's not going get rid of Sakurai and change one of the most popular series that keeps getting more popular each gen just because a certain group on the internet wants them too. 

Actually, if Nintendo was to listen to the haters on the message boards they would be even less likely to do anything radically different considering the number one complaint among the internet message boards is that Brawl was too different from Melee and how they had to hack the game to make it play exactly like Melee.

[Spak-Spang]

Actually, nothing I said suggested not making it Smash Brothers. 

I think adding a second attack button would allow for more traditional fighting game combos in the context of the Smash Brothers World.  I still want the "Smash Controls" light, Medium, Smash Attacks with the analog stick.  But, I would like to have more variety and control with the abilities.  I still like the idea of having simple special move set up with 4 special moves, though I think with the additional attack button you could exploit the system more.  Special attack button for some standard special moves and both punch and kick together for a few other more unique specials, like character changes or even fighting style changes. 

I loved Melee.  I thought the Adventure mode was awesome, and really enjoyed trekking through the world of each game with fighting their enemies.  I thought Brawl's Adventure mode was an absolute wreck.  I want to see developers create an adventure mode that basically tries to create the experience of each unique game series in a 2D side scroller...capturing the feel of those games...if only slightly.  I think a lot can be done with it...but the designers need to be creative. 



I still want the King of the Ring fighting style, and the increase of damage to launch each other. 

[NWR_insanolord]

I want to see developers create an adventure mode that basically tries to create the experience of each unique game series in a 2D side scroller...capturing the feel of those games...if only slightly. 

This is a good idea, but not as part of Smash Brothers. In Smash, every character has to feel the same to an extent, but in a game like that the mechanics would have to be varied for each part or else it wouldn't feel right.

[Spak-Spang]

I want to see developers create an adventure mode that basically tries to create the experience of each unique game series in a 2D side scroller...capturing the feel of those games...if only slightly. 

This is a good idea, but not as part of Smash Brothers. In Smash, every character has to feel the same to an extent, but in a game like that the mechanics would have to be varied for each part or else it wouldn't feel right.

The characters CAN feel the same...but the levels can be different.  But, you can for some levels change how characters work slightly.

For instance.  The Mario level or levels come up.  Each character loses their attack abilities.  They can only jump and double jump.  The enemies react just like in the Mario games.  You jump on them you die.  There are blocks and the only items in the levels are Mario items.  As such you can get big, fire flowers and such.  You can also pick up enemies and toss them.  All this is done with regular Smash Bros. Controls that everyone understands.  But the level just limits you some. 

Zelda can be done like the Zelda 2 dungeons.  You are looking for a Map, solving puzzles, defeating a mid-boss to get a special item that will be used for the boss.  For these levels the special item can be an in-game item that once you have you can't drop.  Then you find the keys and fight the boss.  A nice fun level.

Metroid you can start with only basic attacks in the level, and you find your fighting abilities through powerups in the level.  The levels are more vertical and when you defeat the boss you have to run back to the beginning of the level. 

ect.  You don't actually have to have levels for each character, as some characters won't work for levels...though I would love to see a low grade simple racing mechanic for F-Zero characters...but not really needed.  Then you can have the 4-5 worlds you choose to have levels based on have multiple levels.  3 Zelda levels, 2 Metroid levels 4 Mario Levels, 2 Kirby Levels...and perhaps the characters that don't make great levels could be bonus levels like a single screen Mr. Game and Watch for a level...or playing through original Donkey Kong Stages

I think you could make it a blast.

[nickmitch]

I don't think Smash Bros needs more traditional controls. The controls were a major part of what makes the series feel unique when compared to traditional fighters.

I think the adventure mode should really just build on what Melee's was, but maybe have a setup like Brawl's.

Anyway,  I'm personally hoping for a 2D portable Smash Bros. on 3DS. Hopefully with a good online system.

[UncleBob]

Anyway,  I'm personally hoping for a 2D portable Smash Bros. on 3DS. Hopefully with a good online system.

Super Sprite Bros. Super Sprite Bros. Super Sprite Bros.

Think a mix between Four Sword's Shadow Battle, New Super Mario Bros' Mario vs. Luigi, and the original Mario Bros. Arcade game.  With all kinds of Nintendo spites thrown in.

Please, please, please, Nintendo.

While I'm at it, please take the 4-Player Mario Bros. from the Mario Advance series and give us an on-line version.  Please.

[Adrock]

Of course even then he'd probably still be a producer and still have a lot of control over it's development, since Iwata has made it clear that Smash Bros is Sakurai's series and he gets to decide what happens to it.  Because of this Nintendo's not going get rid of Sakurai and change one of the most popular series that keeps getting more popular each gen just because a certain group on the internet wants them too.

This again... I find it odd when people point out Iwata said this and Miyamoto said that as if it even matters. Nintendo will do whatever they want with their own franchises.

Actually, nothing I said suggested not making it Smash Brothers...

...a second attack button...

Once you start making it more of a traditional fighter, it stops being Smash Bros. The series was always simple to play, but difficult to master. Adding an attack button makes it difficult to play and even more difficult to master. I suggested Nintendo make a new mascot fighting game. Your idea could be it; just don't call it Smash Bros. because it's not Smash Bros. at all...

[Luigi Dude]

This again... I find it odd when people point out Iwata said this and Miyamoto said that as if it even matters. Nintendo will do whatever they want with their own franchises.

Yeah and when the franchise is one of their top selling and each installment has sold more then the last, they're not going to completely change the person in charge of it.  With Metroid, the series had never been a huge seller and Super Metroid was actually the worst selling Metroid back when it came out.  So allowing a different studio to make a new installment was not a problem since the it had no where to go but up.  Plus with Donkey Kong Country, the original studio behind it now work for one of Nintendo's competitors so giving it to a different studio was also a no brainer since they kind of needed someone else to make it.  With Smash Bros though the series is still a huge seller and the guy in charge of it still has a very close relationship with the company.

So as long as Sakurai wants to keep making Smash Bros he will continue to make Smash Bros since Nintendo has no reason to stop him.

[NWR_insanolord]

But didn't Nintendo have to beg him to come back and do Brawl? I think he may not want to do another one even if Nintendo would like to have him. There's also the hope that Nintendo has noticed how well things have turned out when they put new teams in charge of old franchises, but considering how stuck in their ways Nintendo tends to be that's probably a long shot.

[Caterkiller]

But didn't Nintendo have to beg him to come back and do Brawl? I think he may not want to do another one even if Nintendo would like to have him. There's also the hope that Nintendo has noticed how well things have turned out when they put new teams in charge of old franchises, but considering how stuck in their ways Nintendo tends to be that's probably a long shot.

Some old franchises did well in the hands of others but I remember Miyamoto not being happy with Namco's Starfox which was complete crap or Sega's F-Zero which was great but under sold.

[Ian Sane]

I remember being all excited about Brawl when it came out.  I invited my friends over to play and... I honestly got bored pretty quick.  We played the **** out of Melee and that was the problem.  The general SSB gameplay was no longer new or exciting for us and tweaking it wasn't good enough.  For some people it is, but for me it's really hard for a multiplayer focused series to continue to grab my interest.  So much relies on the gameplay, but the gameplay doesn't really change much.  Mario Kart has the same problem for me.  Driving go-karts and shooting shells at each other just isn't fun to me anymore.  Single player games always have the advantage and they can give me a new world, new story, new characters and new levels.  There's enough trapping and frills to disguise old gameplay.

So on that note to get me interested in SSB again a really good single player would be ideal.

[Adrock]

Yeah and when the franchise is one of their top selling and each installment has sold more then the last, they're not going to completely change the person in charge of it.

Gunpei Yokoi produced Super Mario Land, under direct orders from Hiroshi Yamauchi. It was the first Mario title developed without Shigeru Miyamoto. Whether or not that would happen today is debatable. Point is, it already happened. Clearly, there is precedence for it. So yeah, Nintendo took a top selling franchise and completely changed the person in charge of it. Ultimately, it's Nintendo's franchise to do as they please. While Sakurai will most likely be asked to return, that's certainly not a guarantee.

With Metroid, the series had never been a huge seller and Super Metroid was actually the worst selling Metroid back when it came out.  So allowing a different studio to make a new installment was not a problem since the it had no where to go but up.

Considering how Yoshio Sakamoto treats the Prime series (it's never once mentioned in the main series... at all), he seems pretty butt hurt that Miyamoto gave the series he worked on since its inception to a bunch of fucking cowboys in Austin, TX. You can maybe give passes to Fusion (i.e. developed concurrently with Prime 1) and Zero Mission (i.e. chronologically before Prime 1), but Other M completely ignores that part of the Metroid mythos for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

So as long as Sakurai wants to keep making Smash Bros he will continue to make Smash Bros since Nintendo has no reason to stop him.

I'd like to point out that you brought this up originally. I said, "I hope Masahiro Sakurai does not direct it" which doesn't suggest Nintendo give him the boot. If a 4th installment is made, I just don't want him directing it and I don't really care how that happens. I'd rather see the man who created Kirby and Smash Bros. work on something completely original (think of all the franchises we wouldn't have if Miyamoto only made Mario and Zelda games) while someone else bring new ideas to the franchise, something I felt was sorely lacking in Brawl. Iwata or Miyamoto will probably ask Sakurai to helm a new Smash Bros. and good for him, but that's besides the point.

[Luigi Dude]

I'd rather see the man who created Kirby and Smash Bros. work on something completely original (think of all the franchises we wouldn't have if Miyamoto only made Mario and Zelda games)

He also helped create the Meteos series and was the lead designer of the first game.  Plus he is in charge of the upcoming Kid Icarus Uprising which we can basically consider a new IP as well since the series was dead for over 20 years and this new one won't play anything like the original on the NES did. 

So Sakurai is working on something completely original at the moment.

[Mop it up]

For me, I think there are a lot of ways that they could have built on the formula introduced in the first two Smash Brothers games, and Brawl had none of it. It just changed things for the worse and removed some content, and added a poorly-designed single player mode. I don't see why Smash Brothers needs a single-player mode... I may not have much knowledge of fighters, but I don't think anyone expects a good single player mode in something like Marvel vs Capcom, or would buy the game for it.

Smash Brothers would benefit from keeping its focus on the multiplayer mode, which is the real reason why people like and buy the series anyway. The addition of online pretty much negates the need for some kind of single player component, since people can play it when not playing with their friends and family. That's all I really want to see from the series... just loads of characters, stages, and items, no other modes or filler content necessary. I also wouldn't mind if they made franchise-specific versions of it, since there are a lot of characters and stages in Nintendo franchises that I'd like to see which wouldn't make the cut in a game that combines everything.

It's unlikely, but Smash Brothers would be a good game for Nintendo to start offering DLC. After the game releases, they could periodically offers packs of franchise characters and stages.

[Adrock]

I don't consider Kid Icarus Uprising a new IP by any means because the entire idea behind it wouldn't exist if the original and Of Myths and Monsters didn't exist. That's like trying to say Metroid Prime was a new IP because it didn't play anything like the original on the NES. No. Just no. On both counts. That's just silliness.

And I thought I made it clear that instead of spending 2-2.5 years on a new Smash Bros. I'd rather see Sakurai make something completely original in that time. I think he has more to offer gaming in general than he does a new Smash Bros. game. If Brawl was the best he can do with the series having been given countless resources and no clear deadline (2 things he didn't have with Melee), I'd rather see the series in someone else's (also capable) hands. Give Sakurai a blank canvas, no clear deadline and the resources he needs to create his vision and let's see what else he can do. If I didn't make that clear before, I hope I did now.

For me, I think there are a lot of ways that they could have built on the formula introduced in the first two Smash Brothers games, and Brawl had none of it. It just changed things for the worse and removed some content, and added a poorly-designed single player mode. I don't see why Smash Brothers needs a single-player mode... I may not have much knowledge of fighters, but I don't think anyone expects a good single player mode in something like Marvel vs Capcom, or would buy the game for it.

Smash Brothers would benefit from keeping its focus on the multiplayer mode, which is the real reason why people like and buy the series anyway. The addition of online pretty much negates the need for some kind of single player component, since people can play it when not playing with their friends and family. That's all I really want to see from the series... just loads of characters, stages, and items, no other modes or filler content necessary. I also wouldn't mind if they made franchise-specific versions of it, since there are a lot of characters and stages in Nintendo franchises that I'd like to see which wouldn't make the cut in a game that combines everything.

It's unlikely, but Smash Brothers would be a good game for Nintendo to start offering DLC. After the game releases, they could periodically offers packs of franchise characters and stages.

This. Well, besides the franchise specific versions. I'm not made of money. Cheap gamer is cheap.

I'd also like a robust stage editor to create... wait for it... specific franchise themed levels. None of that generic stage nonsense. And alt costumes. How those 2 things didn't make it into Brawl are beyond me (no, Wario's one alternate does not count).

[Mop it up]

Ah yes, costumes. I think that's a way they could have had a few more characters in name, by making them alternate costumes. Dr. Mario comes to mind, that could have easily been a costume for Mario. This reminds me, I'm also not against "clone" characters, at least, in concept, so long as the game has a lot of characters overall. Melee and Brawl didn't have enough to have so many clones, IMO. Also, they need to make sense. Some characters, like Mario and Luigi for example, naturally have similar abilities, but I'll never figure out how Ganondorf is anything like Captain Falcon.

I have mixed feelings about a stage editor. If it's a basic one like the one in Brawl, I'd rather not have it as it's a waste of effort. There were very few stages possible with it that had good design, and nothing created with it is as good as a professional stage. If they could make one that's more advanced, then it might be worthwhile, though personally, it isn't something I care that much about.

[Spak-Spang]

I still don't see how adding ONE attack button would complicate the game that much.  In fact, it could make it more simple.  If I know I have one special attack button, One Punch Button, and One Kick Button.  I can mentally understand what attacks I am doing easier, and have a better understanding how to string attacks together.

Yes, it adds depth, and sometimes depth is viewed as complexity...but I think it is a shot in the arm the series needs to make it fresh again.  I agree with Ian, I played Melee to death.  I loved that game...however Brawl felt boring.  It did not help that Subspace Adventure was a complete and Utter disaster...and those enemy designers were the worst characters in any Nintendo franchise. 

I also never played Smash Brothers as a mostly Multiplayer game...I played the Adventure mode to death...and it was fantastic in Melee.  I think Melee had the right idea...and Brawl expanded it...IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.  I do agree that Brawl added too much fluff.  I don't want a level editor I want a great set of designed levels.  But the single player challenges and Adventure mode are a great addition that needs to stay.