Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Kytim89]

Unless the Wii 2's going to carry a multi-$1000 price tag to accomodate packed-in 3D TVs, I don't see the Wii going 3D in that way.

It doesn't need to. Its the responsibility of consumers to buy their own 3D TVs. All Nintendo needs to do is include the support for said TVs. Of course, not every consumer is going to own a 3D TV within the near future, but the 3D support only needs to be optional and disabled for TVs which can't handle it. Nevertheless, it should be there built into the console.

This is what I had in mind. Basically Nintendo just includes 3D capabilities into the machine, but makes it dormant. Once the price of 3D televisons have lowered enough for people to buy then Nintendo releases a firmware update that awakens the 3D inside the wii 2 and then we have 3D enable home console games.

What is wrong with HD-DVD?

[broodwars]

What is wrong with HD-DVD?

Nintendo didn't create it.  I also don't know what the financial situation would be with using HD-DVDs now, and I can't imagine Nintendo wanting to pay anything extra for using the format given that they aren't even willing to pay for the license to have .mp3 playback on the Wii.  It's possibly cheaper just to use their own format.

[Kytim89]

What is wrong with HD-DVD?

Nintendo didn't create it.  I also don't know what the financial situation would be with using HD-DVDs now, and I can't imagine Nintendo wanting to pay anything extra for using the format given that they aren't even willing to pay for the license to have .mp3 playback on the Wii.  It's possibly cheaper just to use their own format.

I like the cartridge media, but I believe that our only choices will be optical media or digital download. Returning to cartridges just seems like stepping too far into the past for third parties to be interested in developing for the system. The holographic storage medium that Nintendo has been working on could be the answer to their format problems.
 
What kind of memory storage will the wii 2 use? What about online?

[Ian Sane]

What kind of memory storage will the wii 2 use? What about online?

Is that a seperate question about the online model or are you suggesting they use online storage?  Online storage wouldn't fly because it makes an internet connection mandatory.  If my internet is down I still want to save games.  And what would happen years from now when the model is no longer supported?  I can't save games at ALL anymore?
 
The Wii 2 should just use a hard drive and call it a day.  It works like a dream for the other consoles so just do it the same way.  Or make it so that I can use a hard drive or SD cards or whatever I want.  Just support the same options that PCs do.  It's just storage.  It's a simple concept that doesn't need to be tackled in some creative "Nintendo way".  Do it conventional so that it works.  Save the innovation for the games.
 
For the media I don't see why they couldn't just continue using DVDs like the Xbox 360 does.  I do not expect Nintendo to dwarf the existing HD consoles in specs.  Blu Ray is borderline overkill now and Nintendo won't create a situation to make even BIGGER games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo has patented the Holographic storage for a DS cart implementation, so we know holographic storage is trying to find it's way to the consumer hopefully during this generation(3DS). I don't think it would be completely insane to think that InPhase and Nintendo aren't working overtime to come up with a optical/holographic disc hybid format for use in the Next Nintendo system that will allow BC for past consoles and flexibility for future ones (not to mention the competition such a thing would cause for BluRay - Nintendo is making Movie studio partnerships for 3DS that could extend into other areas in the not so distant future[/dreamstate])

As far as HDD's go, I say onboard &removeable strorage is the way to go, and optional online backup is a very very welcome addition. Cloud Save/Backup would actually work very well with Nintendo's automatic firmware update strategy that they have going on with the 3DS in that your entire system could be backed-up, upgraded, maintained online and synced with your system everytime you log on/off.
Talk about pushing Free DLC, demos, videos or patches, you wouldn't even have to know when it happened, it would just already be done when you turn the system on.


And whats wrong with HD-DVD? it's a dead format and Nintendo's invested future format is nearing a point of maturity where it should be ready for consumer level release hopefully really really soon.

The only way I could see the Wii 2 going that style of 3D is if it uses a specialized headset like the Virtual Boy, and we all know how badly that went the last time Nintendo tried it. 

Return of Nintendo On!?

[Adrock]

Nintendo, for whatever reason, seems allergic to HDDs. Nintendo is more likely to use SSD if anything because they're Nintendo and doing something sideways and ass-back-upwards (you read that right) is typically how they do things, especially since HDD for saving games in consoles was kind of Microsoft's idea. Nintendo is just too proud to admit another company may have had a good idea. SSDs are more expensive, but the benefits seem more in line with Nintendo, namely durability, smaller form factor, and less frequent failure rate among others. And it happens to have a faster start up. I would want 128 GB, but I would expect 32 GB or 64 GB which compared to the HDDs in PS3 and 360 is nothing. Still, it's leagues better than what the Wii offers.

[TJ Spyke]

It would be cheap to license HD DVD (no dash in the name), I doubt Toshiba would charge them much.

Kytim, I don't see Nintendo using cloud computing for storage matters. I am against cloud computing because you lose access to the stuff if you can't access the Internet. That is why I can't believe some PC publishers have released games that require a constant Internet connection to play (even single player games). Using cloud based solutions would be one of the worst things any console manufacturer could do.

[Adrock]

That is why I can't believe some PC publishers have released games that require a constant Internet connection to play (even single player games). Using cloud based solutions would be one of the worst things any console manufacturer could do.

Well, it's 2010. I would imagine that their line of thinking is: If you don't have an internet connection by now, why are you even attempting to play games on a PC? To play most new games on PC, you need hardware that can handle it. How many of those people don't have a high speed connection? I would guess very few. I understand not wanting to alienate anyone, but I feel, in this case, the majority of that audience has a constant internet connection.

Agreed on the cloud solution on a console though.

[TJ Spyke]

What happens if your Internet connection goes down? Why should you need to have a Internet connection to play a single player game? I can't really think of any benefits to consumers to have to have a Internet connection just to play their game. I can see the benefit to publishers, but not to consumers.

[Chozo Ghost]

There is almost no point in owning a PC if you do not have an internet connection.

[Adrock]

What happens if your Internet connection goes down? Why should you need to have a Internet connection to play a single player game? I can't really think of any benefits to consumers to have to have a Internet connection just to play their game. I can see the benefit to publishers, but not to consumers.

Hey, I didn't say I agreed with them or even supported the decision. However, I do see their POV. Does anyone really need to be online to play a single player game? The answer is no. You're right. I'm not arguing that at all. The point, though, is if it benefits the publishers and people are going to buy the game anyway, it's win-win for them. It'd only be a problem if the decision affected sales which if they're getting away with it, probably not.

There is almost no point in owning a PC if you do not have an internet connection.

The operative word being "almost."

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo didn't create it.  I also don't know what the financial situation would be with using HD-DVDs now, and I can't imagine Nintendo wanting to pay anything extra for using the format given that they aren't even willing to pay for the license to have .mp3 playback on the Wii.  It's possibly cheaper just to use their own format.

Developing a new format from scratch would be a massive investment, and its not something Nintendo themselves are in a position to do. Just like how they aren't a chips manufacturer and hired IBM to make the gecko/broadway processor they would also have to hire some other company (like say Toshiba) to do it for them, and if that is going to be the case then they may as well just take a derelict format like HD-DVD which already exists and has been abandoned. It would have to be far cheaper to do that than pay for a new format to be made.

The space HD-DVD provides is less than Bluray, but its still over kill and more than enough for the forseeable future.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think the real reason Nintendo is phobic towards HDDs is because of their piracy concerns. Once you introduce a hard drive to a console it becomes a little more like a computer, and therefore more susceptible to hackers and pirates. There must come a point where Nintendo will be forced to adopt HDD (or something similar) but they're going to drag their feet as long as possible because of their anti-piracy and anti-homebrew stance.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo, for whatever reason, seems allergic to HDDs. Nintendo is more likely to use SSD if anything because they're Nintendo and doing something sideways and ass-back-upwards (you read that right) is typically how they do things, especially since HDD for saving games in consoles was kind of Microsoft's idea. Nintendo is just too proud to admit another company may have had a good idea. SSDs are more expensive, but the benefits seem more in line with Nintendo, namely durability, smaller form factor, and less frequent failure rate among others. And it happens to have a faster start up. I would want 128 GB, but I would expect 32 GB or 64 GB which compared to the HDDs in PS3 and 360 is nothing. Still, it's leagues better than what the Wii offers.

What I think will happen is that the wii 2 wil be about the same dimensions as the 360 slim. Nintendo will include the option of HDD storage in their next system and then play it off like it has never been done before(not in the open), but the consumer will have to supply their own hard drive for the system.
 
I also see them allowing all forms of memory storage to be implemented. This would include both SD cards and external stoarge devices such as flash drives and USB HDD. But like I said, you will have to provide the medium for the console. They will do this to avoid hearing consumers bitch about storage options.
 
As for online features, cloud storage might be a little too advanced for Nintendo's tastes, but I do see them having online that is similar to either Home or XBLA. They will provide a basic plan, but they might charge 2000 points per year for a more advanced version of their online option.
 
As for multimedia, Nintendo will most like;y include a music player, but the true cream of the crop will be a movie player. What is most likely going to happen is that Netflix will get its own preinstalled channel and all you do is set up your account and instant streaming of HD movies is at your finger tips.
 
This might be trivial, but I would like to see an accessory be released with the system that plugs into a Gamecube controller port or USB port that allows all virtual console games to be played with their respective controller. I have discussed this before many times and I can not argue enough for it to happen.
 
The wii 2 will not try to out perform the 360 or PS3, but it will be to those consoles what the 3DS will be the PSP.

[Kytim89]

I think the real reason Nintendo is phobic towards HDDs is because of their piracy concerns. Once you introduce a hard drive to a console it becomes a little more like a computer, and therefore more susceptible to hackers and pirates. There must come a point where Nintendo will be forced to adopt HDD (or something similar) but they're going to drag their feet as long as possible because of their anti-piracy and anti-homebrew stance.

What Nintendo could do is something similar to how Apple made their iphone where it had no screws to open up the system. Of the course the system would have to be opened to an extent to take in and out the HDD, but that part and what ever port covers and the disc drive will be the only thing that will open on the system. Nintendo themselves will be the only ones who can open the system up when you send it in to them for any reason.
 
For some reason when I see the 360 slim I can not shake this feeling of thinking of it as the wii 2 and I do not mean because of Kinect. I just think that it will be a cross between the wii and the 360 slim.

[stevey]

I think the real reason Nintendo is phobic towards HDDs is because of their piracy concerns. Once you introduce a hard drive to a console it becomes a little more like a computer, and therefore more susceptible to hackers and pirates. There must come a point where Nintendo will be forced to adopt HDD (or something similar) but they're going to drag their feet as long as possible because of their anti-piracy and anti-homebrew stance.

There's no difference from allowing the system to read data off the SD card as there is from an (optional) HDD from a security perspective. The wii already can be hooked up to a hard drive viva the USB2 ports and that was done with homebrew long before Nintendo ever release the HDD 'driver' firmware updated. I just hope they include an option (whether it's an internal space to insert a HDD or better yet an eSATA/USB port on the system) support HDDs for running Nintendo software off of it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo didn't create it.  I also don't know what the financial situation would be with using HD-DVDs now, and I can't imagine Nintendo wanting to pay anything extra for using the format given that they aren't even willing to pay for the license to have .mp3 playback on the Wii.  It's possibly cheaper just to use their own format.

Developing a new format from scratch would be a massive investment, and its not something Nintendo themselves are in a position to do. Just like how they aren't a chips manufacturer and hired IBM to make the gecko/broadway processor they would also have to hire some other company (like say Toshiba) to do it for them, and if that is going to be the case then they may as well just take a derelict format like HD-DVD which already exists and has been abandoned. It would have to be far cheaper to do that than pay for a new format to be made.

The space HD-DVD provides is less than Bluray, but its still over kill and more than enough for the forseeable future.

Nintendo has already heavily invested in a new format, It's holographic, in partnership with a company called InPhase. InPhase was pushing out commercial units back in 2008, and Nintendo has been spending dumptruck loads of cash on something since around 2007, so I can only guess they are trying real hard to get some consumer level equipment out of this tech asap (and alot of that R&D also likely went into 3DS).

It's also possible that Nintendo might use some HD-DVD (with a dash ) licensed tech, but I'm sure it won't be standard HD-DVD (again with a dash ). maybe readin from the inside out and the disc spinning the other way or something. But i'm sure they are pushing for their own proprietary, unhackable, self manufactured, future proof, future standard tech.

If they get the holographic tech down, they may never need another format across any platform, retail or digit download, home or portable console.

[Shaymin]

1) You could probably get the rights to HD DVD for 5 million yen at this point.

2) The reasons why Nintendo doesn't like hard drives: 1) Piracy concerns as mentioned above, 2) phobia of moving parts. Hard drives = spinning parts = more opportunity for breakage and failure since they don't make hard drives out of Nintendium.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo didn't create it.  I also don't know what the financial situation would be with using HD-DVDs now, and I can't imagine Nintendo wanting to pay anything extra for using the format given that they aren't even willing to pay for the license to have .mp3 playback on the Wii.  It's possibly cheaper just to use their own format.

Developing a new format from scratch would be a massive investment, and its not something Nintendo themselves are in a position to do. Just like how they aren't a chips manufacturer and hired IBM to make the gecko/broadway processor they would also have to hire some other company (like say Toshiba) to do it for them, and if that is going to be the case then they may as well just take a derelict format like HD-DVD which already exists and has been abandoned. It would have to be far cheaper to do that than pay for a new format to be made.

The space HD-DVD provides is less than Bluray, but its still over kill and more than enough for the forseeable future.

Nintendo has already heavily invested in a new format, It's holographic, in partnership with a company called InPhase. InPhase was pushing out commercial units back in 2008, and Nintendo has been spending dumptruck loads of cash on something since around 2007, so I can only guess they are trying real hard to get some consumer level equipment out of this tech asap (and alot of that R&D also likely went into 3DS).

It's also possible that Nintendo might use some HD-DVD (with a dash : ) licensed tech, but I'm sure it won't be standard HD-DVD (again with a dash ). maybe readin from the inside out and the disc spinning the other way or something. But i'm sure they are pushing for their own proprietary, unhackable, self manufactured, future proof, future standard tech.

If they get the holographic tech down, they may never need another format across any platform, retail or digit download, home or portable console.

Could Nintendo make HD-DVD(with a dash ) the standard optical format for the wii 2 and allow holograpghic to be piggy backed for security perposes? Nintendo might pick the format up cheaply if Microsoft were to abandon the format for something more advanced that is not blue ray, but I am not sure what this would be right now.
 
Nintendo will most likely take the anti-piracy measures implemented in the 3DS and make them even more advanced and agressive towards preventing piracy.
 
As for HDD support, hard drives are not that durable, but they are cheap and you can get a pretty sized drive for dirt cheap compared to flash memory. What is likely to happen is Nintendo will figure that so many hard drives have produced that the consumer can get one for cheap and that the market has made them some what durable. What Nintendo will include in the box is a plastic box similar to the 360 slim hard drive that you can diassasemble and place a hard drive into and then plug into the wii 2 console. And for the record, we are talking lap top hard drives(2.5) and not the bulky ones(3.5), which can be used externally.
 
This latch would be similar to the one on the N64 that covers the exspansion pack, but it would have to be unscrewed to take the hard drive out. Heck, we would even call it the wii 2 exspansion bay and pak. 

As for online capabilities that the wii 2 must have, I want to see more MMOs. I would not mind having Final Fantasy  11 and 14, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Star Trek online, Monster Hunter Frontier and the other good MMOs available. I would not mind seeing a Legend of Zelda MMO in the future made by Retro Studios.
 
 
 
 

[BranDonk Kong]

Using HD DVD would just make Nintendo look stupid. They need to use Blu Ray for the next system as their physical disc format, period. I don't know what HD DVD would have anything to do with making the system backwards compatible with Wii and GameCube - HD DVD is completely different than DVD, as is Blu Ray, but both HD DVD and Blu Ray can read DVDs (GameCube and Wii games are on plain-old, regular-ass DVDs, despite what you may believe, of course GameCube used 8cm instead of 12cm discs) either via 2 separate lasers, or 1 laser than can do both. Nintendo getting on the Netflix bandwagon shows that they have an interested in home video entertainment, they didn't license DVD video playback because everyone already has a DVD player, so it would just be an additional cost. Blu Ray is still very new, and the most popular Blu Ray player is the PS3, so it would be pretty wise for Nintendo to use the format for many reasons - and I bet they could leverage their way to either paying nothing to license the format, or very little in comparison to other companies, since an HD Wii 2 would help out the Blu Ray format quite significantly.

[Mop it up]

There's no way Nintendo would ever use a format developed by a competitor, and looking at the size of the average Wii game, they don't need anywhere near that amount of space.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo will not adopt blu ray any time soon because it it too new and its main competitor is spear heading the format themselves, but I do eventually see them with blu ray many years in the future when the format is dead and redundant.
 
Nintendo has and always will be about making their console one or two steps behinf their competitors. They have done this since the begining and they will never change. Basically, HD-DVD as a format is fading and it is there asking Nintendo to pick it up for the wii 2.
 
The big question that I have and you alluded to it was backwards compatibility. If the wii 2 plays HD-DVD for its own games and then plays wii and gamecube games, what about the lens? Will it have to have two different types of lenses? This is what leads me towards the idea that the wii 2 will ditch Gamecube BC for emulation and keep wii BC for itself. 

[Chozo Ghost]

since an HD Wii 2 would help out the Blu Ray format quite significantly.

Blu-ray doesn't need help. I don't know if you got the memo or not, but it won the format war against HD-DVD so its pretty much competition free at this point.

I also can't see Nintendo paying licensing fees to Sony in order to use their proprietary media format. This was actually the very same reason that Nintendo rejected the SNES CD add-on (which later went on to become the PS1). Nintendo wants to have complete ownership and control over their gaming hardware. If they went with Blu-ray then it would be Sony who would have control and say over things, and Nintendo isn't going to allow that.

[Kytim89]

The wii 2 is going to have to be HDMI ready out of the box.

[BlackNMild2k1]

since an HD Wii 2 would help out the Blu Ray format quite significantly.

Blu-ray doesn't need help. I don't know if you got the memo or not, but it won the format war against HD-DVD so its pretty much competition free at this point.

I also can't see Nintendo paying licensing fees to Sony in order to use their proprietary media format. This was actually the very same reason that Nintendo rejected the SNES CD add-on (which later went on to become the PS1). Nintendo wants to have complete ownership and control over their gaming hardware. If they went with Blu-ray then it would be Sony who would have control and say over things, and Nintendo isn't going to allow that.

I don't know if you got the memo, but BluRay is still not doing so hot(10-15% of movie sales vs DVD). It may have won the war against HD-DVD, but it's still getting it's ass handed to it by regular DVD's. There is still plenty of room for another competitor to take the HD crown and Digital Distribution is stalling the overpriced BRD market anyway.

A Wii2 with Bluray support would definitely help the BRD make the inroads that it needs to finally make a significant dent in DVD sales. Nintendo would never agree to something like that even if Sony licensed it to them for free. Maybe if Sony gave them a seat on the board fo directors, bet that will never happen either.

Nintendo's best bet right now is their work with InPhase and hybriding the tech with a DVD for BC with the Wii & GC. If they can accomplish that for a Wii2, and get movie studios on board for the disc format (which could hold significantly more than a BRD at much faster read times for uncompressed anything moving forward), BRD might even find itself in trouble.

Digital Distro is still the path for the future, but audio/video philes, collectors & people that just love to own a physical copy will be all over such a format.