Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread

[BranDonk Kong]

Digital Foundry confirmed the specs too, claiming to have "Nintendo sources." There is still always the chance of Nintendo including GeForce NOW with the Switch (which would work docked or undocked), but I doubt it would happen.

[Adrock]

Also, that Eurogamer article is based off of Nothing.

Dude, Eurogamer, Emily Rogers, and Laura Kate Dale have gotten just about everything right about Switch so far (semi-related: Let's Play Videogames has a pretty good podcast).

There's an obscenely large Neogaf thread about Digital Foundry's leak that I have neither the time nor the patience to go through. I did manage to come across Thraktor's post which puts the technical stuff in context. It's quite lengthy so I don't want to post the whole thing here.

Anyway, as far as specs go, I've been operating on a few guiding principles in order to manage my expectations:
1. Nintendo and Nvidia can't break the laws of thermodynamics. Even in the best case scenario, Switch wasn't going to top PS4 like some had hoped if only by virtue of the heat it would need to generate which wasn't practical by any metric due to its size.
2. Switch was always going to be a better handheld or console, not excel at both. In this case, it's a better handheld. Undocked on The Tonight Show, it was running Breath of the Wild smoothly. That said, Switch as a handheld seems like pretty impressive tech if it's outperforming Nintendo's current home console. Switch gets a GPU boost when docked due to active cooling which is nice but it won't impress the pants off anyone. It always made more sense for Nintendo to push Switch's mobility. It's the one thing PS4 and Xbox One can't do.
3. Running modern engines that are highly scalable is something I keep bringing up and for good reason. Nintendo got that wrong two generations in a row so it's nice the company finally got its **** together there. As far as third party support goes, that is the very least Nintendo could do.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The fact that Bethesda is onboard with Switch, despite doing little to nothing on Nintendo platforms in the past, is enough to make me not worry about exact specs. Nintendo's clearly doing something right with the system if they've got all the developers listed signed on and saying positive things about it.

While spec talk is nice and Dev praise is great and all, none of it means **** if the games never show up. So Nintendo, just please make sure all the talk isn't just talk. deliver the games. 1st, 2nd and 3rd party.

[Agent-X-]

Also, that Eurogamer article is based off of Nothing.

Dude, Eurogamer, Emily Rogers, and Laura Kate Dale have gotten just about everything right about Switch so far (semi-related: Let's Play Videogames has a pretty good podcast).

There's an obscenely large Neogaf thread about Digital Foundry's leak that I have neither the time nor the patience to go through. I did manage to come across Thraktor's post which puts the technical stuff in context. It's quite lengthy so I don't want to post the whole thing here.

Anyway, as far as specs go, I've been operating on a few guiding principles in order to manage my expectations:
1. Nintendo and Nvidia can't break the laws of thermodynamics. Even in the best case scenario, Switch wasn't going to top PS4 like some had hoped if only by virtue of the heat it would need to generate which wasn't practical by any metric due to its size.
2. Switch was always going to be a better handheld or console, not excel at both. In this case, it's a better handheld. Undocked on The Tonight Show, it was running Breath of the Wild smoothly. That said, Switch as a handheld seems like pretty impressive tech if it's outperforming Nintendo's current home console. Switch gets a GPU boost when docked due to active cooling which is nice but it won't impress the pants off anyone. It always made more sense for Nintendo to push Switch's mobility. It's the one thing PS4 and Xbox One can't do.
3. Running modern engines that are highly scalable is something I keep bringing up and for good reason. Nintendo got that wrong two generations in a row so it's nice the company finally got its **** together there. As far as third party support goes, that is the very least Nintendo could do.

This has been a central concern. The Switch is meant to be a handheld and a home console. Will it manage to do both well? Will it manage to do either well? Is it going to fail to make either audience happy?

[ThePerm]

Wii U had a big list of developers early on as well. That didn't amount to much.

But really. Lets get a few things straight. Obviously, given Nintendo history we should all manage our expectations.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't discredit bad sources. I have about 5 sources for Switch's specs. They're all leaks, and none have been confirmed by an official source. Some conflict.

Source 1: Emily Rogers - initially made the claim that Nintendo was Switching to nvidia. Something anyone could guess. Although, so far has been the most reliable source. Predictions were accurate.

https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/recap-of-nx-hardware-details/

Source 2: Laura Kate Dale - said switch would have 4mb of ram. When you go to her twitter page right now, the first thing you see is a link to donate to her pay pal.

Source 3: A Chinese Worker
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/rumor-chinese-factory-worker-leaks-nintendo-switch-33369556/

Source 4: Unnamed sources connected to Venture Beat

Source 5: Venture beat apparently reconfirming an article in july
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis

Source 6: Nvidia says directly that it is a custom chip. Nintendo doesn't do regular chips. Remember Big Blue and Watson? Their chips were based off of those, but they weren't those.
https://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/ibm-puts-watsons-brains-in-nintendo-wii-u/

There is a lot of circle jerking going on with people who have apparently broken a scary Nintendo NDA. Also, does anyone think that is most suspicious that more leaks and rumors have come out since the general public became interested. I hear a lot of people taking Tertiary sources as facts.

None of us are talking directly with God(Nintendo). There is no Holy Book(Nintendo or nvidia's website) We're getting information from Apostles(reporters or worse youtubers and tweeters), who are getting their information from Prophets(leaks from developers). I got too much conflicting dogma going around to know what is what. We can't use science(detailed chip hacking) to find out what is true yet. The only thing we can wait for is the next Revelation(January 12)

I also talked to Jeffry Grubb who is somehow connected to Dean Takahashi of Venture Beat. In my chats with him he was trying to manipulate the conversation to cover his ass. He doesn't understand the wall of skepticism. The motive to create fake news to get internet hits is just too high right now. At least with Emily Rogers and Laura Kate Dale, they have a track record of being right. Dean Takahashi and Jeffrey Grubbs are coming from nowhere. Not every source is a trusted sources, they have to earn it. I have access to a developer myself. However, they're tight lipped as ****(They work at Ubisoft). They never tell me ****. I've known them for like 13 years.

[BlackNMild2k1]

While you may be right, I think it's in our best interests to think the worst and hope for the best.

always the best approach when it comes to Nintendo. constantly giving everyone around here something to bitch about.

[Evan_B]

In fact, I continue to refuse to care about the Switch until I see a launch lineup.

[Kairon]

I've got no reason to doubt the latest Eurogamer reports, and honestly I'm playing the "keep expectations low" game. Emily Rogers, Laura Kate Dale, and Eurogamer appear to be the trio of really solid leak/speculation sources right now, and that's built on their track records over the past several months, not wishful thinking.

Ultimately when it comes to specs the opinions that matter to me are those of the developers.  If they don't feel they can port their games or not do so without major compromises then low specs are a problem.  With the Wii and Wii U I never found the games ugly, it just sucked that damn near any decent game not made by Nintendo was not on those platforms.

I think Ian's got it right. We can have a spec sheet war and all, but what matters is any material increase in actual developer support.

What I'm REALLY jazzed about right now is a couple of things:

1. If true, I think this thing is going to be CHEAP! The Shield Android TV launched in 2015 with a straight-up Tegra X1 at $199 and I really don't think that product could afford to be a loss leader. We could be looking at a $249 Switch with a goodly amount of room to maneuver on price!

2. These are still modern chips, even if it's looking almost certain they'll be a far cry from PS4 levels even when docked. The Switch has been rated to conform to the latest in OpenGL and OpenGL ES, AND the cutting edge Vulkan API as well. Power is all well and good, but a greater effect on dev support may be engine support, and hardware that can support these modern features means that the Switch already had avowed Unreal Engine 4 support right from the announcement.

3. I do still think this gives Nintendo room to go the incremental improvement route, with both a Switch Micro in the future, as well as a Switch Pro that probably jumps to Pascal and uses the newer manufacturing processes to squeeze more power while staying in the same range of heat and battery life.

[TheSevenYearSwitch]

Source 1: Emily Rogers - initially made the claim that Nintendo was Switching to nvidia. Something anyone could guess.

LOL!

On a different note, ports are important, but the Wii managed to sell without them, and to a (much) lesser extent, so did the GC. The Switch is what the WiiU should have been but was unable to be. If the WiiU made it easy to port games to it, the second screen aspect would have been even more useless because those ports would hardly make use of it, if at all. What the Switch really needs to do is give developers a reason to make good exclusives for it, and the only way to do that is sales.

I, like most of you, was pretty upset with Nintendo holding out for so long on what the Switch actually is, but the hype they've generated is far beyond anything expected. People are actually excitedly talking about a Nintendo console, rather than mocking it. The ability to take your game from TV to car/bus/walk/park/etc. is what will generate sales, which will in turn generate developer support. That the console supports Unreal and other popular engines will mean that it can potentially get even more support than did the Wii, and ton more shovelware as well.

It hasn't been much discussed, but let's not forget that the Switch is bringing back the simplistic motion controls that drove Wii sales. If they can market that aspect to the casual gamers who now only play games on their phones, while marketing the graphic capabilities and "mature games" to the hardcore gamers, and keeping everyone happy (but especially loyalists) with their AAA titles, they've got a winning formula on their hands.

In fact, I continue to refuse to care about the Switch until I see a launch lineup.

And yet you're here... In the context of the discussion, I get your point but to say you refuse to care, is kind of silly. There's nothing wrong with saying you're excited for the console, despite how cool it is to be apathetic on the internet.

[lolmonade]

3. I do still think this gives Nintendo room to go the incremental improvement route, with both a Switch Micro in the future, as well as a Switch Pro that probably jumps to Pascal and uses the newer manufacturing processes to squeeze more power while staying in the same range of heat and battery life.

This more than anything gives me pause.  I'm inclined to wait the switch out until mid-life-cycle to see if a New Switch Pro+ Tournament Edition comes out, because I'd rather start the system with the best hardware possible.

[MagicCow64]

3. I do still think this gives Nintendo room to go the incremental improvement route, with both a Switch Micro in the future, as well as a Switch Pro that probably jumps to Pascal and uses the newer manufacturing processes to squeeze more power while staying in the same range of heat and battery life.

This more than anything gives me pause.  I'm inclined to wait the switch out until mid-life-cycle to see if a New Switch Pro+ Tournament Edition comes out, because I'd rather start the system with the best hardware possible.

Yeah, this is starting to concern me as well. I don't want to early adopt if there's going to be a significantly (i.e 3DS to New 3DS) upgraded unit 18 months down the line or some such.

I don't think Nintendo would do this, but now would be the time to lay all the cards on the table if they are actually going to use the supplemental computing patents. I would be fine getting a Switch on the earlier side if I knew I could upgrade it later without buying a whole new device.

[Agent-X-]

3. I do still think this gives Nintendo room to go the incremental improvement route, with both a Switch Micro in the future, as well as a Switch Pro that probably jumps to Pascal and uses the newer manufacturing processes to squeeze more power while staying in the same range of heat and battery life.

This more than anything gives me pause.  I'm inclined to wait the switch out until mid-life-cycle to see if a New Switch Pro+ Tournament Edition comes out, because I'd rather start the system with the best hardware possible.

Yeah, this is starting to concern me as well. I don't want to early adopt if there's going to be a significantly (i.e 3DS to New 3DS) upgraded unit 18 months down the line or some such.

I don't think Nintendo would do this, but now would be the time to lay all the cards on the table if they are actually going to use the supplemental computing patents. I would be fine getting a Switch on the earlier side if I knew I could upgrade it later without buying a whole new device.

This is the sort of thing we would really hope Nintendo doesn't have to learn a hard lesson on. I feel like they've taken their home console experience and are totally gambling with it. The smell of vodka is heavy on their breath. I've never seen so many options packed into a game device. At the end of the day, I'm left to wonder: is this the new console, is it the new handheld, or is it something else entirely? Will there be something else to replace it within 2-years?

[Agent-X-]

Ok. Nintendo has one chance.


$199.99

Nintendo Switch base unit.

[Lemonade]

Im pretty sure the Switch will be $400-450 here in Australia.

The Wii U has been $430 since launch, they have just bundled more with it.

[Evan_B]

I'm not excited for the console?

There's one game on it that I want, the other one is going to be on Wii U.

[ThePerm]

Im pretty sure the Switch will be $400-450 here in Australia.

The Wii U has been $430 since launch, they have just bundled more with it.

Is that in AUD or USD? if its AUD that means its worth $311.98 US Dollars.

Or is it priced at 592.69 Australian Dollars and you did the math for us?

[Lemonade]

Sorry, I meant $430 AUD

[Kairon]

This is the sort of thing we would really hope Nintendo doesn't have to learn a hard lesson on. I feel like they've taken their home console experience and are totally gambling with it. The smell of vodka is heavy on their breath. I've never seen so many options packed into a game device. At the end of the day, I'm left to wonder: is this the new console, is it the new handheld, or is it something else entirely? Will there be something else to replace it within 2-years?

This is a Handheld with a Super Gameboy Accessory packed in. I now am imagining it launching at $249, but Nintendo totally capable of dropping that to $199 whenever they need to, even if that might be it's first Holiday season.

Also, if we think of its a Nintendo Handheld, then it's almost assuredly getting a hardware refresh at some point. Just look at the long history of Gameboy Pocket, GameBoy Color, GBA SP, DS Lite, DSi, 3DS XL and New 3DS. It's strange for me to see people worried about this since it's been Nintendo handheld reality for FOREVER. Personally, I LOVED both my Launch DS Phat AND my Launch 3DS, so anticipate that if Nintendo goes Switch Pro and Switch Micro within two years I'll be tickled, but won't be letting go of my Launch Switch launch either.

[Agent-X-]

This is the sort of thing we would really hope Nintendo doesn't have to learn a hard lesson on. I feel like they've taken their home console experience and are totally gambling with it. The smell of vodka is heavy on their breath. I've never seen so many options packed into a game device. At the end of the day, I'm left to wonder: is this the new console, is it the new handheld, or is it something else entirely? Will there be something else to replace it within 2-years?

This is a Handheld with a Super Gameboy Accessory packed in. I now am imagining it launching at $249, but Nintendo totally capable of dropping that to $199 whenever they need to, even if that might be it's first Holiday season.

Also, if we think of its a Nintendo Handheld, then it's almost assuredly getting a hardware refresh at some point. Just look at the long history of Gameboy Pocket, GameBoy Color, GBA SP, DS Lite, DSi, 3DS XL and New 3DS. It's strange for me to see people worried about this since it's been Nintendo handheld reality for FOREVER. Personally, I LOVED both my Launch DS Phat AND my Launch 3DS, so anticipate that if Nintendo goes Switch Pro and Switch Micro within two years I'll be tickled, but won't be letting go of my Launch Switch launch either.

Has any Nintendo handheld ever launched >$200? $249.99 is definitely a home console price. At $199.99 I could conceive of buying 2 of them for the new Pokemon game, but that is not the case at $249.99.

[Shaymin]

The 3DS, which due to a lack of compelling software got shotgunned down to $170 after its first full financial quarter.

[MagicCow64]

This is the sort of thing we would really hope Nintendo doesn't have to learn a hard lesson on. I feel like they've taken their home console experience and are totally gambling with it. The smell of vodka is heavy on their breath. I've never seen so many options packed into a game device. At the end of the day, I'm left to wonder: is this the new console, is it the new handheld, or is it something else entirely? Will there be something else to replace it within 2-years?

This is a Handheld with a Super Gameboy Accessory packed in. I now am imagining it launching at $249, but Nintendo totally capable of dropping that to $199 whenever they need to, even if that might be it's first Holiday season.

Also, if we think of its a Nintendo Handheld, then it's almost assuredly getting a hardware refresh at some point. Just look at the long history of Gameboy Pocket, GameBoy Color, GBA SP, DS Lite, DSi, 3DS XL and New 3DS. It's strange for me to see people worried about this since it's been Nintendo handheld reality for FOREVER. Personally, I LOVED both my Launch DS Phat AND my Launch 3DS, so anticipate that if Nintendo goes Switch Pro and Switch Micro within two years I'll be tickled, but won't be letting go of my Launch Switch launch either.

Right, I'm sure there will be a hardware refresh, but I'm coming in to this with a heavy console preference. I guess we're living in the world of mid-generation console upgrades now, but I'm not wild about the idea. I picked up the DS and 3DS later in their lives after the hardware "settled", because I was expecting that and am not much of a handheld enthusiast in the first place, and had no intention of dinking around with multiple units.

I'm going to treat the Switch as a console and I'd like to feel relatively secure in the knowledge that it won't end up like the OG GBA, technically functional but kind of a piece of **** compared to the refresh.

[Kairon]

I'm going to treat the Switch as a console and I'd like to feel relatively secure in the knowledge that it won't end up like the OG GBA, technically functional but kind of a piece of **** compared to the refresh.

Yeah, I'm hoping that's the way it plays out too. Maybe the first test we'll see of this is how the PS4 Pro plays out? Definitely a different situation, but I haven't heard anything about it leaving regular PS4 owners out in the cold.

Frankly, I don't think it'd make much sense to start splitting the userbase 2 years in, that would really undermine the ability to treat the Switch products as a "family" in my opinion. Instead, they should have at least a couple of generations on the market existing concurrently before they start introducing software that explicitly cuts older gens out, sort of like how iPhone 5s and iPhone 7s co-exist today. Maybe that would be a four-year life-span for any single generation? The difference would be it's ability to co-exist with other "generations" of Switch and provide a gradual smooth upgrade opportunity at a wide variety of price points.

[ShyGuy]

BOLD PREDICTION: $229.95

[TheSevenYearSwitch]

I'm not excited for the console?

There's one game on it that I want, the other one is going to be on Wii U.

I'll concede that excited was too strong a word, I just mean that you care to some degree at least. You haven't just vanished from the boards since the reveal.

[Stogi]

"Different settings for docked / portable Switch modes spotted in Unreal Engine 4"

http://nintendoeverything.com/different-settings-for-docked-portable-switch-modes-spotted-in-unreal-engine-4/

A file in Unreal Engine 4’s master branch shows names for Switch, SwitchConsole and SwitchHandheld. As the developer points out, “the SwitchConsole settings are a notch lower than the UE4 defaults used on PC, PS4 and XB1.” It’s thought that the settings “serve as a good starting point to get a PS4/XB1 UE4 game to run acceptably on the Switch.”

Coming from the developer, this should mean it's quite possible to run ports just fine. Hype train back on course?