Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Mop it up]

I'm ambidextrous. I have an advantage over all of you.

HA!

...Actually, I'm pretty sure that Link is ambidextrous. He might hold his sword in his left hand, but there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot, for example. So, perhaps in this game he's going to choose his right hand for swordplay, because he doesn't want to feel left out.

What could work is an option to play with the Wiimote in your left hand. Which hand option you chose would determine which hand Link himself holds the sword with. I wonder how difficult that would be to implement?

[broodwars]

I'm ambidextrous. I have an advantage over all of you.

HA!

...Actually, I'm pretty sure that Link is ambidextrous. He might hold his sword in his left hand, but there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot, for example. So, perhaps in this game he's going to choose his right hand for swordplay, because he doesn't want to feel left out.

What could work is an option to play with the Wiimote in your left hand. Which hand option you chose would determine which hand Link himself holds the sword with. I wonder how difficult that would be to implement?

So long as this would be determined by an in-game toggle the player selects, not that difficult at all but time-consuming.  Along with programming both hands to handle all functions, you'd have to make sure that nothing wierd happens when either hand uses any tool in the game at any point in the game.  So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..

[Mop it up]

So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..

I don't know, I think the percentage is higher than that. Probably still not enough to make it worthwhile, though I'd think it's somewhere between 10-15%.

With games that use only the Wiimote I almost always use my left hand. If this game has heavy use of the Wiimote then I'd probably still want to use the Wiimote in my left hand even if it meant holding the Nunchuk in my right.

[broodwars]

So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..

I don't know, I think the percentage is higher than that. Probably still not enough to make it worthwhile, though I'd think it's somewhere between 10-15%.

With games that use only the Wiimote I almost always use my left hand. If this game has heavy use of the Wiimote then I'd probably still want to use the Wiimote in my left hand even if it meant holding the Nunchuk in my right.

Well, I think you may see that option on simple games like Wii (insert name here), which tend to use simple models like Miis and whatnot.  With very little geometry to animate and account for in testing, it's simply easier to implement and test.  I highly doubt we'll see such functionality in something like Zelda, though, since the gaming audience is predominantly right-handed and gaming has traditionally had control handled by the left hand and action by the right.

[Mop it up]

They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?

[NovaQ]

They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?

That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?

But then fanbois would complain when the Lincoln shaped mole on his left butt cheek was on the wrong side.

[EasyCure]

IT IS ON HIS LEFT BUTT CHEEK DAMMIT!

[BlackNMild2k1]

Damn fanbois... [smh]

[Stratos]

IT IS ON HIS LEFT BUTT CHEEK DAMMIT!

Never would I have thought to hear something like this in relation to Zelda games.

[Mop it up]

They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?

That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.

Link is ambidextrous so they wouldn't need to change cutscenes because it wouldn't matter if he's holding the sword with a different hand in them. He is capable of both. But I guess it could affect the gameplay so it's probably not feasible.

[Stratos]

They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?

That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.

Link is ambidextrous so they wouldn't need to change cutscenes because it wouldn't matter if he's holding the sword with a different hand in them. He is capable of both. But I guess it could affect the gameplay so it's probably not feasible.

I've noticed that most lefties have an affinity for being slightly ambidextrous. Sometimes bowling, batting or doing something else as well if not better with their right hand. I always figured it was a partial adaptation to living in a right-handed dominant world.

I bowl better with my right hand and I can bat either way.

[Mop it up]

There's no such thing as being slightly ambidextrous, you either are or you aren't. It isn't like people's non-dominant hands are completely useless. I know right-handed people who prefer to do some things with their left hands, such as Wii Sports Baseball; bat with right but pitch with left.

Usually it comes down to writing ability. Have we ever seen Link write anything?

[EasyCure]

IT IS ON HIS LEFT BUTT CHEEK DAMMIT!

Never would I have thought to hear something like this in relation to Zelda games.

Really? There's a whole thread in the funhouse about his nipples in Twilight Princess. I think the image even became a banner back when the funhouse was cool!

[Stratos]

I thought man nipples were just a general theme in the funhouse. I did not know that Link's started the 'fad'.

[EasyCure]

I thought man nipples were just a general theme in the funhouse. I did not know that Link's started the 'fad'.

UncleBob started the fad, first of all. Link just made it popular with the tweens!

[BlackNMild2k1]

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/events/091030qa/index.html
Miyamoto just had another interview and talks about Zelda TS & Zelda Wii.
IT's in Japanese, but GAF has already translated some of it.

[Zelda ST] will be really fun. It's turning out to be rather challenging. Many of our Japanese customers were introduced to the Zelda series with Phantom Hourglass, and ST could prove to be kind of hard for them, but I thought we'd show them what Zelda is really made of this time around. So it's turning into quite a unique title.

We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.

About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.

[Dirk Temporo]

there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot

The hookshot, yeah. He uses the bow left-handed.

Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?

[BeautifulShy]

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/events/091030qa/index.html
Miyamoto just had another interview and talks about Zelda TS & Zelda Wii.
IT's in Japanese, but GAF has already translated some of it.

[Zelda ST] will be really fun. It's turning out to be rather challenging. Many of our Japanese customers were introduced to the Zelda series with Phantom Hourglass, and ST could prove to be kind of hard for them, but I thought we'd show them what Zelda is really made of this time around. So it's turning into quite a unique title.

We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.

About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.

Well that is nice to hear.
On a somewhat related note I tried out swordfighting in WSR at a Demo station a few days ago and it is really fluid.

[Mop it up]

Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?

Mario is ambidextrous? I haven't seen him ever use anything with his left hand.

[Ian Sane]

About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.

I'm really not very interested in swinging the remote every single fucking time I want to swing the sword.  Just think about how much you swing the sword in a Zelda game.  If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour.  And Zelda isn't a game you pick up and play for 10 minutes.  It sucks you in so that hours go by like minutes.  Swinging the actual sword will impress rubes for five minutes and then become a big chore.

Zelda isn't about swinging a sword.  It's about having an adventure.  Metroid is also about having an adventure and that's why Metroid Prime Hunters is worthless piss because some small-minded idiot saw that you shoot stuff and thought that shooting stuff was the whole point.  I also don't like Metroid Prime 3 nearly as much as the first two MP games for the same reason.

If you're making a Zelda game and the first thing you think of is swinging the sword then you're setting yourself up to make a shitty Zelda game.  If you give it the scope of the other Zelda games then you're going to destroy the player's arm.  But if you cut back the scope to better accomodate sword swinging mechanics then you're stripping out the adventure and thus the whole reason Zelda is anything.  The whole thing is recipe for disaster.  I will be very impressed if Nintendo pulls it off.  I really hope they do.  I don't think they can because I think motion control is too limiting and one dimensional but I certainly hope they can prove me wrong on that.

What Miyamoto should truly focus on is making the player feel like they themselves are on the adventure.  It has nothing to do with a sword and a shield or an elf dressed like Robin Hood.

[hylianhero5249]

Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?

Mario is ambidextrous? I haven't seen him ever use anything with his left hand.

I haven't seen him use anything with his right hand.

[King of Twitch]

Start man'ing up then, it won't be out for another year.

[Dirk Temporo]

motion control is too limiting and one dimensional

But buttons totally aren't.

[Guitar Smasher]

If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour.

I sure hope Nintendo gets game testers for this game.  Can you imagine the lawsuits if they don't?  Better invest in some acetaminophen too.

Seriously, this "arm-waving" argument is so 3 years ago.  I *might* agree with you if this was a no-name 3rd party, but this is Nintendo.  They aren't going to half-ass Zelda, and they aren't going to overlook a possible issue, such as this.

And about what "Miyamoto should focus on"...  You're taking one comment about one aspect of the gameplay and making broad generalizations about the whole game.  It's still early for them to be talking about the adventure aspects.  I'm sure their thinking up new ideas and concepts, but if they can't go into details yet, there's no point for them to comment.

BTW, I do respect many of your arguments but sometimes, like now, you take an inch and run a mile.