Topic: (no title)

[TJ Spyke]

I loved that Hyrule. If they clean it up a little (make the graphics specifically for the Wii), I would love to re-visit it. Twilight Princess was the best Zelda game and I loved that version of Hyrule (although I will admit that I didn't love the Twilight Realm, except the castle at the end of the game).

[King of Twitch]

"Miyamoto: I’ve talked to (Galaxy director Yoshiaki) Koizumi about that a lot, but this time I’d like to go with as little story as possible"

Oh Miyamoto, you overachiever you. Always raising the bar and going above and beyond the call of duty

[Mop it up]

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

[Stratos]

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I loved the Rosalina side story. It was like a beautiful, mournful ballad. On one hand it is perfect and you can't top perfection, but on the other I want to see more.

[NWR_insanolord]

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I completely agree with the above statement and am fully in favor of all games using as little story as possible.

[EasyCure]

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I completely agree with the above statement and am fully in favor of all games using as little story as possible.

I wouldn't mind it being like the original LoZ:

Turn on the game, read a paragraph, boom you're in the middle of nowhere and all you see is a cave.. HOLY **** I GOT A SWORD.. :explore;

[Mop it up]

I've never understood why games have cutscenes where you can't control anything. The whole point of playing a game over watching a movie is that you get to control the action. One area where games still need to evolve is storytelling; find a way to present a story whilst still giving you control over something. And no, though "interactive" cutscenes where you have to sometimes press a button don't cut it.

[Stratos]

Its because game designers are very controlling. Plus the media is limited. People have a story to tell and want it told THEIR way. Plus it is close to impossible to make something completely open to player control without the story falling apart into a jumbled stack of chaos.

I learned this when I was playing this story telling game (think D&D but without the paper and stats and everything. It's all verbal). I got a turn to lead a game and was frustrated at how no one would go along with my story and mechanics like I had planned. They kept "breaking" my game so that any character I felt was critical to my story I had to either let them kill or make it flee. Many designers want a controlled experience but games are anything but this typically because or the openness of user input.

Story means that designers have to account for anything happening in anyway. Cut scenes allow them to force the game to go the way they want it to go.

[ShyGuy]

I just experienced a frusturating cut scene in Bioshock. Cut scenes FTL

[TJ Spyke]

I actually don't mind cutscenes, if they are skippable. It is so annoying dying and having to watch a long cutscene again, or replaying a game and having to watch it again when I just want to play the game.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

[Stratos]

Or they will bundle it with Zelda. They did a bundle with DK64 of the expansion pak and they did that specifically to pave the way for Majora's Mask requiring it. Though the Wii looks like it will have a longer lifespan than the N64 so they might be more open to bundling the Wii with M+.

Maybe we can have a black Wii bundle with black sontrollers and black M+. I'd buy a new system just to get that.

[TJ Spyke]

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

If that is true, it's completely opposite of what Miyamoto said at the roundtable. He had said the next Zelda would only use Wii MotionPlus if enough people had it.

I don't see Nintendo including Wii MotionPlus ever with the system. Don't forget (as Stratos said) that The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required the N64 RAM Expansion Pack in order to play it buy Nintendo didn't bundle it with the system. Whenever Nintendo sells a game that requires a accessory they just bundle it with the accessory.

[King of Twitch]

This indecisiveness is ridiculous. They need to get the game up and running in time for Christmas 2011.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But MM came out in like the last 18months of N64, it was too late to consider a bundle at that point. Besides there was only like 4 games that made use of that expansion pack.

With the Wii, it comes already comes bundled with WiiSports which is now getting a sequel to that uses M+. All they have to do is upgrade the current bundle to one including WiiSports Resort. Its a much different situation.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't see the need to bundle Wii MotionPlus when most games will not use it (or at least not require it). I think Nintendo sees this too. Not to mention the fact that they would lose out on a lot of money. Donkey Kong 64 came out in 1999 and required it too.

Also, dozens of N64 games made use of the Expansion Pack (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Expansion_Pak for some).

[Stratos]

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wii sales are slowing, and demand could be increased by adding value to the package again.
How would you do that?
Price Cut!! - not likely
New Bundle!! - more likely

Instead of a price drop down to $199 they could just include a WiiSports Resort and keep the $250 price point.
Now all new users have M+ and all developers can develop for it without fear of supporting a peripheral without enough market penetration.
It will become a sort of Wii standard.

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

[Stratos]

It could just be bundled with the new controllers as one bundle, though it doesn't look like they will do that since they are already selling them separately.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They have to sell it separately for the 100million+ wiimotes already out there.

[TJ Spyke]

Wii sales are slowing, and demand could be increased by adding value to the package again.
How would you do that?
Price Cut!! - not likely
New Bundle!! - more likely

Instead of a price drop down to $199 they could just include a WiiSports Resort and keep the $250 price point.
Now all new users have M+ and all developers can develop for it without fear of supporting a peripheral without enough market penetration.
It will become a sort of Wii standard.

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

No, your point was that only 4 N64 games used the Expansion Pack. I showed you were wrong. As of right now only 2 games will require WMP (Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2). I don't see Nintendo bundling it with the Wii unless a decent amount of games start requiring it.

Video games sales in general are decreasing, not just the Wii. The Wii is also stil easily outselling the competition with the current model. The only thing I can see Nintendo doing this year is bringing that black Wii over to us.

[Stratos]

Maybe if they make Wii 2 it will include an uber Wiimote, M+, Nunchuck and Classic Controller combo?

Remember the Rumble pack started as a sold separately + bundled with game on the N64 but nearly every system since has included it from the get go as part of the actual controller.

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

No problem

[Mop it up]

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Never quote a Wikipedia page that is riddled with "citation needed". Hi there, my name's citation.

There was one other game which required the Expansion Pak for gameplay features and that is San Francisco Rush 2049. It enabled track 6, in-game music, ghosts in time trial, and a few other minor features. Granted, this isn't as major as something like the single-player mode of Perfect Dark, but every other game which used it did so for a hi-res mode. And it is very easy to tell when a game is running in high-res because it looks a lot more crisp, though this comes at a reduced framerate.

For the most part the Expansion Pak is equivalent to the component cable for the Wii.

But, I think the point here is that the Expansion Pak was absolutely required for only two games. However, it was released at a time when sales of the N64 were dwindling and it didn't exactly reinvigorate the system as Nintendo had hoped. And another important thing to remember here is that the Expansion Pak wasn't originally intended to be used with regular N64 games, it was originally designed for the 64 Dynamic Drive. Nintendo never exactly had big plans for it like they do with Wii Motion Plus.

There was one bundle which included the Expansion Pak, which was the Donkey Kong 64 Jungle Green bundle. I don't see why Nintendo couldn't offer more than one bundle with Wii as well. They've done it with just about all of their previous systems.

[Stratos]

Good point about the different bundles on N64 Mop it up.

Also, agreed it was dangerous of me to quote a 'needs citation' article but I figured it was close enough to use in this context.

Though, I remember reading a few reviews and previews that stated that they couldn't tell what was different on certain N64 'optional' games. The pak did reportedly help with certain things like framerate in older and 'not optimized for expansion pak' games though.

[Mop it up]

The pak did reportedly help with certain things like framerate in older and 'not optimized for expansion pak' games though.

Who reported that? That is entirely inaccurate. Games can't utilize a device they weren't programmed for. The Expansion Pak cannot help with the framerate in any games, not even those designed for it. That task is entirely up to the CPU. And since the Expansion Pak doubled the amount of data the CPU needed to process, many Expansion Pak-compatible games had a decreased framerate.

Strangely though there is one game that is incompatible with the Expansion Pak. Space Station Silicon Valley will freeze up if the accessory is in the system. Even weirder is that not all copies seem to be plagued with this bug...