Topic: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)

[oohhboy]

I don't buy that reasoning for the Wakanda battle. Developing weapons go hand in hand with tactics. You develop a weapon to solve a battlefield problem and what battlefield problem is going to get solved with square formations of spears in a world where killing a a button away? Through their espionage they no doubt know what the rest of the world is capable of in order to counter it in the eventuality they find out about you even as a deterrent.

What is made worse is that they start with a classic shield wall developed exactly to take on charges man or beast. I was expecting a hold steady! Hold the Line! as they grind away at them. Something clever or waiting on an airstrike. Nope **** that noise. Charge suicidal beasts at least twice your size with spears.

I buy using it for ritual combat but war? Nano tech, drone vehicles, advanced energy weapons, virtually unbreakable materials in huge quantities with extreme kinetic abilities, shields capable of absorbing huge objects dropped from space.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well, if that's what we've whittled this down to, then I agree with you on the Wakanda battle.
You figure they would've had some sort of tech to take those beast down at the border. I personally was so wrapped up in everything going on, that I didn't really think about it
"YIBAMBE!!!... YIBAMBE!!!... YIBAMBE!!!"

[oohhboy]

It started off well enough with the cool energy shield. Once I saw the open green fields (Again) all bets were off. It's a reoccurring problem with Marvel movies and superhero stuff in general where fights keep inexplicably breaking down into fist fights in a large geographically indistinct zone despite large quantities of effective firearms/magic/WMD.

There's alot of dissonance between the source material, the gravitas of the event, expected consequences, laziness, cost cutting and the requirement for a PG-13 rating. Top the absurdity of the family friendly genocide taken to 11.

LOL pointing out how awful Loki is at doing stuff.

They better have something clever to wrap up the story with as they have written themselves into quite a hole.

Was it just me as Star Lord was pissing me off every time I saw him. He was obnoxious.

[BranDonk Kong]

They say Thanos's skin is invincible, so I'm not sure he'd be able to chop off the arm.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They say Thanos's skin is invincible, so I'm not sure he'd be able to chop off the arm.

They could've tried, as they showed it happen on The Black Order.
Thanos could have used the Space and Power Stones to counteract it, but it just seemed like such an obvious play for something they just showed 20 minutes prior.

And I still don't buy that Loki is dead. He's too crafty when it comes to self-preservation. Thanos didn't have the reality and Soul stones at that point, so there was no way for him to see through Loki's shenanigans.
and it's also a damn shame that Heimdall didn't use the ranbow portal to ship Thanos off to god knows where in the middle of nowhere... maybe the surface of a sun if they don't break out of the rainbow tunnel along the way, or just in dead empty space right infront of a black hole. Let them fight that situation, even if for a moment.

[BranDonk Kong]

Loki's dead. Totally dead. He'll be in A4 though.

[Adrock]

In defense of Star-Lord, while attacking Thanos and basically dooming half of all sentient life in the universe is stupid from an outside perspective, I’d argue that his reaction is consistent with his characterization. An emotionally driven, punch/shoot-first-think-later man-child is in line with the arc James Gunn wrote in the first two Gaudians of the Galaxy movies. This is the same guy who immediately shot the **** out of Ego when Ego admitted to giving Peter’s mom cancer. Therefore, Star-Lord did exactly what we all should have expected him to do in that moment of Infinity War. He wasn’t receiving an epiphany right after learning that Thanos killed Gamora because, similar to when Drax summoned Ronan to Knowhere in the first Guardians of the Galaxy and almost got everyone killed, it hasn’t been earned yet. Learning not to be impulsive, that his behavior has consequences will likely be reserved for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 especially if that movie is meant to be the last hurrah for the original team. Should Star-Lord get that anagnorisis in the future, I’d consider it to be pretty great long-term storytelling.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't think Star-Lord needs any defense. We all know why he did it, and we all understand that it's totally a him thing to do, but that doesn't change the fact that he is still an idiot.

If they got the glove off of Thanos, and assuming he could himself wield it, bringing back Gamora could of been his first act a demi-god status. they were literally a few tugs away from sucess, and SL fucked it up. His thoughtless in the moment reactions is who he is, and what prevented him from thinking strategically.

But since Strange viewed all the outcomes, and didn't even bother to rewind that moment, I can only be led to believe that getting the glove off ultimately didn't change anything other than the runtime of the movie, because "Run from it... Dread it... Destiny still arrives".
I'm led to believe that the only way to win is to let Thanos have what he is after, and allow those that survive to have the effect they have in undoing everything and changing it all for the better.

[Adrock]

Speaking of Dr. Strange, I always wondered why he didn’t try, “Thanos, I’ve come to bargain.” A friend said the other Infinity Stones Thanos already had made that impossible, but that was something they should have at least shown to fail. As clever as that was in the Doctor Strange movie, it seems like a win-button that should be used all the time.

[BlackNMild2k1]

We can nit pick details all day... and I realize this because now that I nit pick the details, why didn't Strange just fast forward time on the pulling of the glove itself, while simultaneously slowing down perception of time for Thanos himself?

There are so many things that could've and should've happened, but runtime be damned, we all want to see at least some of the things we had the last 4 months to think about be attempted in the mere minutes these heroes had to think of them in that moment.
Seriously, some of them should have been attempted.

We saw him try to utilize the "Mirror Dimension", and he even used the sling ring to make portals for Spider-man and Star-Lord, but never once tried to close one on Thanos himself. I don't remember any specific attempts to use the Time Stone against Thanos, like trying to revert him into Baby Thanos (Awwww, imagine the Funko Pop Figures!!!).
We need the Infinity War EXTENDED Editiion!!

ps. The Russos say that [re: Soul Stone and things surrounding where and how it was obtained]since Gamora was sacrificed for the Soul Stone, she is still alive inside of it (This probably means Ronan may still be inside the Power Stone), and that now that the Soul Stone is with Thanos, Red Skull is free to leave that planet and finish his pursuit of obtaining a stone for himself.

[Adrock]

We can nit pick details all day... and I realize this because now that I nit pick the details, why didn't Strange just fast forward time on the pulling of the glove itself, while simultaneously slowing down perception of time for Thanos himself?

Yeah, there’s a lot that could have been done. I don’t think it’s all nitpicking. Not explaining something that has been already established isn’t the same as not explaining something that hasn’t been established yet. I know the filmmakers can’t cover everything. Suspension of disbelief is tricky. I can accept aliens and magical rocks (“No, they’re Infinity Minerals. Jesus, Marie.”), but I get hung up on logic. If something worked, it follows that it should still work unless shown otherwise.

ps. The Russos say that [re: Soul Stone and things surrounding where and how it was obtained]since Gamora was sacrificed for the Soul Stone, she is still alive inside of it (This probably means Ronan may still be inside the Power Stone), and that now that the Soul Stone is with Thanos, Red Skull is free to leave that planet and finish his pursuit of obtaining a stone for himself.

Would be nice to see Hugo Weaving step back into the role. He seems to have softened his stance in the past few years.[/spoilers]

[BlackNMild2k1]

We Did It!!!!
The impossible has happened.
The Black Movie that Wouldn't..... Shouldn't.... Couldn't.... DID IT!!!!

Black Panther, the first BIG BUDGET Black Movie starring almost All Black Actors, with a Black Director and mostly all Black people in all important production influence positions (music, wardrobe, makeup, etc etc) has proven that not only can a Black Movie, taking place in "Africa" starring Black People, telling a Black story, can and will make money, but be highly profitable and successful as well.

We have achieved Black Excellence, a Black Cultural Milestone, a **** You!!!! to old Hollywood.

Black Panther has managed to not only be the 1st BIG BUDGET BLACK MOVIE TO SEE SUCCESS
it is also the HIGHEST DOMESTIC GROSSING MOVIE in the MCU
it is also only the 3rd movie EVER to cross $700M Domestic in the US.

I believe it was also the only 1st Solo Outting in the MCU to cross $1B
It was also the only Non-Avengers MCU movie to cross $1B and NOT have Ironman in it, or any other established Avenger at all.....

and all this after hanging around on the Box Office and in the Theaters for close to 6 months now.
Just Incredible.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/box-office-black-panther-crosses-700m-major-milestone-1131242

of course, Infinity war is about $30M behind it at the moment, but we won't worry about that. Some achievements cannot be taken away. Regardless of where IW ends up, BP will always be 1st in the MCU and 3rd Movie ever to do it.
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=avengers.htm

time for the Warcry!!!! "YIBAMBE!!!! YIBAMBE!!! YIBAMBE!!!

#WakandaForever

[oohhboy]

If he stays dead I have no problem with that. Even if they were destined to lose it is an unimaginably stupid way to spike it. Who wrote this?

What could he do to be worthy of redemption in the eyes of the audience? This is how you raze a character to the ground. It doesn't matter what the in movie reason is what is important is would we buy it? Even if it was part of DS's plan, he is a poisoned character. "Part of the plan" would make the movie a cheap shot. Good luck digging him out without wreaking the movie.

The biggest problem with Thanos and all hero movies is power inflation which includes technology. Is Thor Goku now? WTF While he didn't do a flying Leia, his continued survival and abilities are questionable. Thanos is so arbitrary strong everyone else have to be equally arbitrary in their strength, crippling or benching characters who could have dealt with the problem. High tech weapons but use spears and asinine tactics. Vision is running around like a cripple, DS doesn't use his stone offensively. They show fight winning moves and not use them.

Messy messy movie.

[Adrock]

If Thor was Goku, he’d give Thanos all the Infinity Stones just so he could fight Thanos at peak strength.

Side-bar: Flying Leia looked ridiculous, but I didn’t have a problem with it in context to other Force powers. If Force users can push objects away, I don’t see why they can’t pull themselves toward things. I digress.

[oohhboy]

She should be dead from the explosion and/or blown out into space. It came out of nowhere, if their intention was to make her look badass it utterly failed. If it was there to bench her they picked one of the most ridiculous ways to do it.

It was never the force push pull issue, it's a bad faith a deflection of the real criticism.

There are **** loads of other problems leading up and past that scene that make it worse.

[Adrock]

Is there any reason why she couldn’t use the Force to survive the explosion?

[BlackNMild2k1]

This right here is the main reason why I only watched this movie once in the theater.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UIcg5xC26s

and this video reminds me of my own daughter after watching IW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQt-Fbd3fbI

This was such a sombering movie. Theaters should have invested in Avengers themed tissue packs, each featuring a different fallen character, but not actually said why the characters where on there (Hey, where's Cap and IM!?), just called them "Collectors Items".


and let's PLEASE not devolve into Star Wars talk in here. This is the Marvel MCU thread.
TLJ has had all it's issues discussed to death, resurrected and then discussed to death again.

[Adrock]

Thread derailment is pretty much what we do on these boards, but fine, let’s do all the things you want to do.

[oohhboy]

That would be "The wizard did it", magic wand the problem away. There is no setup for that scene or for her. It's extremely bad story telling. If you have characters surviving situations where they should clearly be and are expected to be dead why would you care anymore? Something like this breaks the back of a movie, removes any future notion of tension or stakes, importance every event. You have broken the suspension of disbelief.

Your expectation after that is that you are going to be dismissive if not angry of everything after if you haven't already thrown popcorn at the screen. It's pure bad movie material.

Thor barely gets away with it by playing it as bug on the windshield joke intent on defusing a very tense atmosphere. Plus he is a demi-god so he has wiggle room.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Thread derailment is pretty much what we do on these boards, but fine, let’s do all the things you want to do.

Anything we can do to keep any sort of active conversation happening around here

And I don't think I ever talked about it, but the Leia scene was basically where I felt the series had lost me. I already wasn't into SW, and now I felt like I had either missed something very important or they just took a wild swing for the fences and missed.

But back to Marvel and how all that SW BS relates to the discussion.
Thor is a fucking Space Viking, he travels through a rainbow tunnel through space, has been shown falling out of it and landing on a random planet, has also been shown traveling to numerous other planets where no one knows the chemical make-up of the atmosphere.... So for him to float out in space, unconscious, and survive.... I've totally already bought into that being possible. It's been established that Thor is not a normal being with special powers. He is the God of Hammers!! Thunder... sorry about that.
He takes punches point blank from a giant green gamma monster, gets up and laughs it off with a beer. (kinda makes you wonder why he panicked being locked in that room in Avengers when it dropped to Earth from the Helicarrier, but then again, he hasn't really unlocked his GOD OF THUNDER power to full potential yet.)

[Adrock]

I’m not a big Star Wars fan either. The way I see it Leia uses the Force in the original trilogy plus the whole Skywalker bloodline, then add the passage of 30 years. In a saga largely about space wizards, it didn’t break my suspension of disbelief because I think it fits the universe. Maybe she should have been dead. Then again, this is the same universe where you can just come back as a ghost even if you spent a lifetime of committing countless atrocities.

Thor surviving didn’t break my suspension of disbelief either. In addition to the things you mentioned, he spun a hammer really fast so he could fly. There are worse offenders in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (e.g. Bucky surviving that fall, literally anything Hawkeye does). My only issue with the beginning of Infinity War is that it kind of cheapens the end of Thor Ragnarok. Even then, I can live with it.

[oohhboy]

His ship also exploded after he got beaten and tortured within an inch of his life, that had me questioning it but it isn't a krusty.avi moment.

He gets away with it as mentioned Thor is a Space Viking with multiple movies of build up and the joke landed which carries on with him fixing his eye with "rabbit" and how nonplussed he is to his injuries from sheer fury, absolutely focused on killing Thanos. It isn't an isolated throw away moment. It's a whole package.

Different context, higher level of competence and premise lets you do different things while maintaining the suspension even if it is utterly ridiculous on our scale.

Just because you have space wizards doesn't mean you get to do "The wizard did it". It's terrible story telling. It's why do don't use "It was all a dream". You just wasted everyone's time. In OT when they use the force there is some kind of setup.

"30 Years later" doesn't in anyway set her up for anything other than being old.

Harry Potter which is nothing but Wizards doesn't pull that kind of ****.

[BlackNMild2k1]

He gets away with it as mentioned Thor is a Space Viking with multiple movies of build up and the joke landed which carries on with him fixing his eye with "rabbit" and how nonplussed he is to his injuries from sheer fury, absolutely focused on killing Thanos. It isn't an isolated throw away moment. It's a whole package.

I’m not a big Star Wars fan either. The way I see it Leia uses the Force in the original trilogy plus the whole Skywalker bloodline, then add the passage of 30 years.

Aaaaaand that would be the something important I must've missed. Even though I seen the OT more than once, I don't ever remember her using the force, or it being mentioned that she had force powers. I remember we found out Luke was crushing on and kissed his sister, and that may have implied she had access to the force, but it's been so long since I've watched the OT, I really don't remember anything Force related to Leia.

Just because you have space wizards doesn't mean you get to do "The wizard did it". It's terrible story telling. It's why do don't use "It was all a dream". You just wasted everyone's time. In OT when they use the force there is some kind of setup.

"30 Years later" doesn't in anyway set her up for anything other than being old.

Harry Potter which is nothing but Wizards doesn't pull that kind of ****.

I'm assuming you don't recall that either by your "30 Years Later" response.
Or maybe it was just me..... but I was never really into the series, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was just me...

and to wrap this right back into the MCU...
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/finn-jones-teases-multiple-masks-in-season-2-of-netflixs-iron-fist
Iron Fist will have multiple mask, and some form of costume in Season 2.

[ThePerm]

Is it so hard to think that the sister and daughter of two psionic wielding people would also have psionic powers?

[oohhboy]

It was one of a number of "Jumping the shark", "Nuke the fridge" moments in that movie. There are some in TFA too.

Leia does use the force, "sort of" in OT, never actively, always as a receiver. Once it was Luke drawing her to him and the other was sensing whether he was alive after the DS2 exploded which might not even be a force thing rather than her belief in Luke.

30 years means nothing as we have no useful information implied or otherwise what any of them did for the past 30 other than the abortion that is Ren. We don't know anything about the what happened in the galaxy in the past 30 years. There is no indication that Leia ever got stronger with the force, if anything she is weaker or it's non-existent given she felt nothing with Han implying whatever past usage being all Luke. It's like 30 years didn't happen other than everyone getting old.

Even Luke's academy is irrelevant as apparently Kylo was evil all along. Luke had nothing to do with it.

You can try to infer information but you wouldn't have anything to support it with, it just isn't in the movie. There are some very obvious characterisation they could have done to fill in the gaps etc but they inexplicably didn't use any of it. It's really surprising how little information we receive.