Topic: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?

[Kytim89]

So you want Retro to make 3 MMOs and a Halo killer? In addition to being terrible ideas, it wouldn't be possible for one team to do all of them.

I will settle for a good FPS from them if that is the case and perhaps a new Star Fox for the Wii 2.

[Spak-Spang]

Dino Crisis 4 in HD would make a good launch title for the Wii 2. But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch. I mean here is a list of launch titles that could come out for the Wii 2:
 
Conduit 3
Super Mario Galaxy 3
Red Steel 3
Punch-out 2
No More Heroes 3
Wii Sports 2 (with judo, kick boxing and karate)
Sin and Punishment 3
New Super Mario Brothers 3
Star Fox (Armada) in HD
(Eternal Darkness 2)?
 
A new sci-fi FPS developed by Retro Studios andmarketed to be Nintendo's Halo killer.
 
Also, MMOs should be made available for the system and Monster Hunter Frontier should be the first on the list. Lastly, Retro should begin to develop MMOs of their own for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft.
 
Retro's MMOs should include the following:
 
Medieval Final Fantasy/Fable-esque game.
Cyberpunk MMO
Space opera MMO
 

Your launch line up is a little too ambitious...but I understand you are just writing what COULD be available.  The Wii launched with Zelda...so the Wii 2.0 will most likely launch with a Mario game, and some other type of game.  Usually, racing games come out because they are easy to make, and attract an immediate hey this is fun experience...even if it is only shallow.

I see the launch lineup being something like this:

New Super Mario 3  (Easy game to release...captures casual and hardcore interest...keep all the original suits, just reworked to fit with 4 players on screen...and an online mode with level editor.  Killer App)

F-Zero Wii 2  (I believe F-Zero is not coming out this generation...I just don't see it coming so late for the system.  However, it could be handed to the team that worked on Excite Trucks, and polished up for a nice launch title.)

Wario Ware Wii 2 (Let's face it Smooth Moves was a great experience...but hampered by limitations of the software, and wanting to work with only one controller.  It would be a nice launch lineup for Nintendo to show off crazy Nintendo style online competition Micro-games and have a better 4 player in house mode with 4 Wii remotes.) 

All of these games could be developed and handled in-house by Nintendo easily and ready in about year development time for launch of a new system.  But there isn't yet that killer title.

Retro:  Retro is working on DCR, but the game is finished...and it shouldn't have taken all their resources pulling that game together.  I think they will be utilized to make the "Western" launch game.  I am not saying Halo killer...or anything.  I am just saying a very pretty graphically intense core gamer launch title that will wow everyone.  But my prediction also is this game will come out 2-3 months after launch.

For 3rd parties I see:

Conduit 3  (High Voltage was smart to bet of the Wii...because nobody else was.   I see them jumping onboard with a big reward.)
Madden 2012
Raving Rabbids....I dunno I would like to think the series will be ended with the Wii...but the Rabbids are cute and are well designed characters, they will last for the launch lineup of Wii 2.0  And it will be a party game.

Wii Sports may also be a pack-in game for the system, or a channel.  With new controls and a few new games.  I like the idea of updated games from Wii Sports, Resort, and Wii Play...being released as the pack in. 

In total I predict a launch with 10 to 12 games including 3rd parties.

[Kytim89]

Dino Crisis 4 in HD would make a good launch title for the Wii 2. But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch. I mean here is a list of launch titles that could come out for the Wii 2:
 
Conduit 3
Super Mario Galaxy 3
Red Steel 3
Punch-out 2
No More Heroes 3
Wii Sports 2 (with judo, kick boxing and karate)
Sin and Punishment 3
New Super Mario Brothers 3
Star Fox (Armada) in HD
(Eternal Darkness 2)?
 
A new sci-fi FPS developed by Retro Studios andmarketed to be Nintendo's Halo killer.
 
Also, MMOs should be made available for the system and Monster Hunter Frontier should be the first on the list. Lastly, Retro should begin to develop MMOs of their own for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft.
 
Retro's MMOs should include the following:
 
Medieval Final Fantasy/Fable-esque game.
Cyberpunk MMO
Space opera MMO
 

Your launch line up is a little too ambitious...but I understand you are just writing what COULD be available.  The Wii launched with Zelda...so the Wii 2.0 will most likely launch with a Mario game, and some other type of game.  Usually, racing games come out because they are easy to make, and attract an immediate hey this is fun experience...even if it is only shallow.

I see the launch lineup being something like this:

New Super Mario 3  (Easy game to release...captures casual and hardcore interest...keep all the original suits, just reworked to fit with 4 players on screen...and an online mode with level editor.  Killer App)

F-Zero Wii 2  (I believe F-Zero is not coming out this generation...I just don't see it coming so late for the system.  However, it could be handed to the team that worked on Excite Trucks, and polished up for a nice launch title.)

Wario Ware Wii 2 (Let's face it Smooth Moves was a great experience...but hampered by limitations of the software, and wanting to work with only one controller.  It would be a nice launch lineup for Nintendo to show off crazy Nintendo style online competition Micro-games and have a better 4 player in house mode with 4 Wii remotes.) 

All of these games could be developed and handled in-house by Nintendo easily and ready in about year development time for launch of a new system.  But there isn't yet that killer title.

Retro:  Retro is working on DCR, but the game is finished...and it shouldn't have taken all their resources pulling that game together.  I think they will be utilized to make the "Western" launch game.  I am not saying Halo killer...or anything.  I am just saying a very pretty graphically intense core gamer launch title that will wow everyone.  But my prediction also is this game will come out 2-3 months after launch.

For 3rd parties I see:

Conduit 3  (High Voltage was smart to bet of the Wii...because nobody else was.   I see them jumping onboard with a big reward.)
Madden 2012
Raving Rabbids....I dunno I would like to think the series will be ended with the Wii...but the Rabbids are cute and are well designed characters, they will last for the launch lineup of Wii 2.0  And it will be a party game.

Wii Sports may also be a pack-in game for the system, or a channel.  With new controls and a few new games.  I like the idea of updated games from Wii Sports, Resort, and Wii Play...being released as the pack in. 

In total I predict a launch with 10 to 12 games including 3rd parties.

I see a developer like High Voltage rising to power mainly by sticking with Nintendo. Their pedigree towards game development is debatable, but the quality of the Conduit series can not e denied. They want to develop for the HD consoles, but they seem to not have the experiece, nor the resources to develope for those systems. So they would be better off staying the Wii and its successor and building up prestige and experience to run with the big dogs. Developers like Activision and EA started out small and fragile and now they are giants in the industry.
 
Are there any other third party titles that could be potentially released for the Wii 2. I personally want No More Heroes 3 as soon as possible and Suda 51 has said that he wants the game on the Wii's successor. Also, third parties are free to port over any of the PS360 games as long as it is the good ones.

Could this bundle help sell more Wiis?

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/18/the-last-story-wii-bundle-uematsu-music-revealed/

[MaryJane]

@Kytim
Yes, that is how Nintendo plans for the Wii to get that extra 15 million. Like Iwata said they want to give people special incentives for them to buy the Wii. They should have done a pink Wii for Kirby's Epic Yarn (and breast cancer awareness) and a DK themed one for DKCR but maybe they'll do a gold one for Skyward Sword.

@Ian
So if 3rd part support has always been dead on Wii, and 3 - 4 1st party games isn't scarce, then what has changed to make them want to release the Wii2? Sales are still strong, Wiimote + just barely came out, the vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the competition is in no position to release their next consoles (could be wrong about that but it seems so unlikely with game costs and how much studios are cutting back to save money). Do you really think a more powerful Wii with nothing new will be enough for 3rd parties to suddenly bring their games to a console with less users than the PS3? Even if Nintendo fans buy up the Wii2 that doesn't mean 3rd parties who constantly complain that Nintendo users only buy Nintendo games are going to be pleased. If all you want is PS3 ports, may I suggest buying a 360. The Wii2 is going to be new and innovative in a way that we likely can't imagine, and will either draw in 3rd parties like the 3DS or make them cautious like the Wii. Nintendo can afford to  wait to take that gamble.

Edit: Typos

[Ian Sane]

But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch.

But that would be a good thing, assuming that they were current PS360 games and that the PS3 and Xbox 360 were still the current consoles from Sony and MS.  One of the sucky things about the Wii third party support is that tons of games are made for every console BUT the Wii.  If the Wii 2 can get all the multiplatform games then things would be going pretty good.
 

So if 3rd part support has always been dead on Wii, and 3 - 4 1st party games isn't scarce, then what has changed to make them want to release the Wii2? Sales are still strong, Wiimote + just barely came out, the vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the competition is in no position to release their next consoles (could be wrong about that but it seems so unlikely with game costs and how much studios are cutting back to save money). Do you really think a more powerful Wii with nothing new will be enough for 3rd parties to suddenly bring their games to a console with less users than the PS3?

Third parties are mostly interested in releasing multiplatform games these days.  They want their game to be on as many platforms as possible which is why a last place console like the PS3 has healthy support.  The amount of third party exclusives on the PS3 is pretty low but it still gets most of the big games.  The Wii hardware is too different to allow for multiplatform releases so most devs either ignore it or release quick cash-in "exclusives" to get some Wii product out there.  The Wii is just too underpowered.
 
But the Wii 2 (presumably) will make up for that and actually have comparative hardware to the other consoles.  Nintendo even said that they made the 3DS a very powerful system because they didn't want third parties to be turned off by hardware restrictions so we know that Nintendo has thought about this.  Third parties don't bring their multiplatform games to the Wii because they can't.  Not because they hate Nintendo but because they can't easily move a game from the PS360 to the Wii.  If they can do it with the Wii 2 they will for their whole plan is to get their games on as many platforms as possible.
 
If they ignore the Wii 2 as well it will be because of some developer unfriendliness on Nintendo's part.  Nintendo will skimp on the hardware again or have shitty development kits or the hardware is incompatible with the popular game engines or something like that.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ian you forgot one thing, Nintendo worked with 3rd parties on the kinds of things they would want to see out of the 3DS, that is something that I would hope they would continue to do for the Wii2 also in hopes that 3rd parties have input on what to expect and can be excited to actually support the system like they are for the 3DS.

[ThePerm]

3rd parties should just release games that people would want to play, end of story. If its a "maybe they would want to play it" type game than it has already failed. If you don't make a "must get" then its going to be a "maybe get", and a "maybe get" gets 50% of sales/praise if that.

[Ian Sane]

3rd parties should just release games that people would want to play, end of story. If its a "maybe they would want to play it" type game than it has already failed.

Yeah, you get the feeling that on the PS360 the devs makes the games they would want to play and would likely enjoy while on the Wii they're guessing what the audience would like.  Make games you would want to play, make movies you would want to see, make music you would want to listen to.  That seems like the easy way to do it.  Otherwise you're just guessing and speculating and only a few really savy people can ever pull that off.

[DAaaMan64]

Honestly, I don't think a bunch of sequels to hardcore games people didn't play in the previous generation is going to make the new console appealing. It should launch with a new IP.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.

[NWR_insanolord]

Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.

That's only going to sell it to people who only owned a Wii this gen. People who owned one or both other consoles aren't going to buy a new console to play games they've already seen.

[Ian Sane]

I don't mean old games, I mean CURRENT ones.  When the Wii 2 launches there will be current PS360 games being released and those will hopefully also appear on the Wii 2 at the same time.  These won't be last gen games unless Sony and MS roll out their next gen consoles around the same time.  And if Sony and MS do then I hope Nintendo matches them in hardware and isn't one gen behind again.

Anyway, regardless of the details it would be good if the Wii 2 was getting included in the current multiplatform releases at the time.

[broodwars]

Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.

However, if companies actually bother to make ports of current generation games on the next generation Wii, they will not sell outside of a few isolated instances.  Most users who wanted to purchase those games probably went and purchased them on the other consoles.  There will be no reason to purchase them on Wii 2 if you already own them or already played them years prior unless the titles were practically rebuilt for Wii 2's unique user interface.  It would be something like what we saw with the New Play Control titles.  The only exception this generation I can think of was Resident Evil 4 Wii.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The games will still be new, and having to decide on whether to play GTA5 on the PS360 with Move/Kinect support or play it on Wii2 with better graphics and whatever new gimmick or improvement to controls that Nintendo has made might not be the most motivating factor to upgrade, but when you pair that superior GTA V up with some kick ass exclusive Launch IP and the next big Nintendo game like Super Mario Universe or New Super Mario Bros. Wii 2, then that port of GTA V for Wii 2 is looking pretty good over the PS360 versions with inferior visuals and subpar controls.

edit: Why is there this confusion that we would somehow mean that Wii 2 is gonna get a port of Deadspace while PS360 is getting DeadSpace 2?
Why would anyone think that we were talking about new games going to PS30 while the superior Wii2 gets 1+year old ports of games that everyone has already played? what sense does make?

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo's first party titles would be the deciding factor.  For example I already have a PS3 so if the latest PS360 title is getting a simultaneous release on the PS3, X360 and Wii 2, I'm not going to buy a Wii 2 for something I can play on a console I already have.  But it is still important that those titles be there.  The exclusives would make me purchase the Wii 2 but I would want the standard multiplatform games to be there as well.

It's no different then how the Gamecube had some current PS2 games released during launch.  Why would I buy a Gamecube for THPS3 when I already have a PS2?  Well you wouldn't but it was important the Cube was getting one of the current hit games at the same time.

[broodwars]

The games will still be new, and having to decide on whether to play GTA5 on the PS360 with Move/Kinect support or play it on Wii2 with better graphics

What makes you think the Wii 2 will have stronger technical powess than the PS3/360?  Sure, I'd certainly want that to happen, but Nintendo has made it very clear over the last 5 or so years their disdain for creating hardware with that level of firepower.  The most I'd expect of Wii 2 would be whatever wacky UI thingy (+ 3-4 peripherals they have no intention of supporting) Nintendo wants to shove down our throats next with roughly the technical powess of the 360 or PS3, maybe a little less.  After all, they're Nintendo and they're starving for money.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Maybe because Nintendo would spend more in R&D trying to NOT have better graphics than PS360 than to yet still have a GPU that is capable of modern graphics. Maybe because I doubt Nintendo is gonna recycle the 1999 Flipper/Gekko chipset again use it for the 3rd time. Maybe because even with off the shelf parts, Nintendo could get better performance than a PS360 and pack it into a retail machine for about $200/$250. Maybe because I doubt Nintendo wouldn't create something for their next home console that didn't make the 3DS look like a handheld. Maybe because Nintendo has shown with the 3DS that they are willing to work with 3rd parties to create a machine that they are excited to work with and gives everybody enough flexibility to create the games that they want to make.

I'm pretty sure the main reason Wii is as underpowered as it is, is because Nintendo invested alot in that chipset only to see it underutilized. It's been recycled and they have way more than gotten their moneys worth from it. I highly doubt that chipset is modern enough to be recycled yet again and it would likely just be easier to start with something much more modern that is backwards compatible, something that can read the same instruction set.

[Kytim89]

I hate to always be contrary, but since I have never played the majority PS360 third party, so I would be open to playing them if their developers added something extra to the deal and offered them at budget prices.

[Ian Sane]

The 3DS is pretty cutting edge and Nintendo themselves stated that part of the incentive for that was so that third parties would not use hardware restrictions as an excuse for not developing for it.  It would seem pretty idiotic to have that mentality for their portable but not their console.

However with Nintendo I am always skeptical.  There is always the "**** up something obvious and completely avoidable" factor with them.  They SHOULD at the very least match the other consoles with the Wii 2.  All logic suggests that they will.  But if they utterly **** it up and give us 2 and a half Gamecubes duct taped together I would not be surprised in the least.

Hell, Nintendo could try selling refurbished Virtual Boys for $10000 and I would not be surprised.  In fact I would be surprised if they don't **** up SOMETHING incredibly stupid and avoidable with the Wii 2.  I just hope it isn't something that matters much.

Adding to the argument in favour of a 2011 Wii 2 launch is the HDTV thing.  When the Wii launched HDTVs were just starting to really catch on but now?  I'm a weirdo for not having one.  All my friends have one, my parents have one, any co-worker that I have been to the house of has one.  Of anyone that I know what sort of TV they have I am literally the ONLY ONE without an HDTV.  And the Wii doesn't support HD connections.  That seemed a little out-of-date at launch and now it makes the Wii look ancient.  So is the Wii going to last for years and years more being the only item that connects to a TV still on sale that doesn't support current TV standards?  This is like if the N64 only supported coaxial connections.  I don't think this is the highest priority but it really is pretty lame.

[BlackNMild2k1]

considering that Nintendo is all about efficiency of design, I expec tthere to be alot less RAM than what most devs would want, and it will be pretty fast ram, but still less than or equal to 1/2 at best and 1/4 at worst of what the next-gen competition will half.

I would also expect Nintendo to stick with another fixed shader model for their next GPU even though everyone is using and used to programable.

Onboard storage will also not be as big as we want.

But it will absolutely be more powerful than the PS360 is today by a nice amount. It probably won't matter as much since it will seemlessly handle 1080p @60fps with a majority of the most common graphical effects turned on with draw distances that definitely meet expectations and enough polygons to rival CG animation of yesteryear, but what more could you really ask for? What more will the over powered Xbox720/PS4 really bring to the table other than insanely high storage and way more RAM than should be necessary? and at what price and in what year?

Nintendo could launch a console by the end of 2011 that would easily outdo PS360 and sell it with a minor profit at a price of $250.

and if they did anything remotely close to the dual tracked motion controls that I suggested earlier, and all the 3rd party support showed up for the now most powerful console on the market, mixed with new IP's and Nintendo's best offerings, MS & Sony would have no choice but to scramble to play catch up again. But they need to strike before the Wii's flame fizzles out, and it looks like the Wii has been burning it's candle at both ends as it is.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo is going to have to adapt to the changing trends within the gaming industry if they want to survive. I respect their business philosophies, but they are ging to have to play it smart with the Wii 2, 3DS and future systems until they can work out a new niche in the new market trends.

[Ian Sane]

considering that Nintendo is all about efficiency of design, I expec tthere to be alot less RAM than what most devs would want, and it will be pretty fast ram, but still less than or equal to 1/2 at best and 1/4 at worst of what the next-gen competition will half.

I would also expect Nintendo to stick with another fixed shader model for their next GPU even though everyone is using and used to programable.

Onboard storage will also not be as big as we want.

I'm kind of wondering if this stuff alone could screw up third party support.  If everyone is used to a programmable shader model (I don't really know what that is) then I have a feeling that that is what they should go with.  Devs want more RAM?  Then GIVE IT TO THEM.  This is just Nintendo designing for Nintendo and Nintendo alone all over again.  This sort of stuff is what they HAVE TO CHANGE if they want things to improve.

[NWR_insanolord]

From everything we've heard, it seems like Nintendo gave developers what they wanted with the 3DS, so it seems likely that they'll do the same with the Wii 2.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was just about to mention that. We don't have specs or anything official about what's in the 3DS, but it seems to get the job done. and if you based your judgements of the DS by the hardware inside of it before you saw what the DS was capable of in it's best games, you wouldn't have been highly disappointed by the seemingly low amounts of everything.

So regardless of what Nintendo decides is enough of a balance to give the majority of developers the results that they want with minimal work, we will be seeing a machine that is capable of much more than what you would think just by adding up the much less than bleeding edge tech sheet.

[Kytim89]

I see the Wii 2 as being about the same power of the 360, but Nintendo and third parties could easily push it towards the PS3 in power scale. What I see happening is that Nintendo will try and stay in the range of the 360 and let third parties exspand where ever they want because Nintendo wants their support and what better way to keep it then to give them as much creative space as they could need and are familiar with by developing for the PS360.