Topic: Metroid Other M

[Kytim89]

The Ridley fight is such a pain in the ass. I wish that the development team would have allowed the option of severing his tail to lesson damage done to Samus.

[Luigi Dude]

"We believe that it could be, should be a million unit title. We're not going to get there, not through the holiday. And we are doing a lot of thinking as to why. Because it's a great game. The consumer reaction because of the quality has been strong. We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive. It's getting close to half a million."

If the game is getting close to 500,000 copies in North America, that means it's already on track to outsell Zero Mission which according to the NPD sold 439,000 copies in North America.  So the excuse that it offended the Metroid fanbase doesn't work anymore since a much better loved Metroid game sold worse.

I'd imagine the real reason for the game not selling better is probably because of the advertising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6Isg0bmVU&feature=related

Even though I love the ad, I'd imagine that anyone who isn't already an existing Metroid fan isn't going to know what the hell is going on.  Because of that, when the ad keeps talking about Samus past and then talks about how Other M is going to bring resolution, if someone has never played a previous Metroid game in their life, they're not going to feel interested in the game since they have no idea what it's about.

So NOA was basically advertising the game to the already current Metroid fanbase, or should I say, the 2D Metroid fanbase since the games storyline is based around the 2D games.  And if you look at the sales of the previous 2D Metroid games, Zero Mission sold over 400,000 copies while Fusion sold over 900,000 copies.  Because of that, the game was basically being advertised to an audience between 400-900k, and if the game is close to selling 500k, it looks like it succeeded in appealing to that audience.  The problem is that audience is not going to give the game huge mainstream success that Reggie might have been hoping for.

[Enner]

Why? Here's why: You ripped out what makes it Metroid and filled the gap with one of the worst stories gaming has suffered from lately.

I was thinking about what to say on how it wasn't that bad. The train of thought went to depressing places and I got off it.

As for the commercial, it was more fan service than an introduction for unknowing customers.

[Chozo Ghost]

We're doing a lot of thinking about why we didn't get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive.

Geez, Reggie. Marketing and advertising and Social Media... aren't those all the same things? The marketing/Advertising/Social Media was there, I grant you that. But the classic Metroid gaming experience? That is what was lacking. There's no point in me bringing up the myriad of criticisms the community has towards this game, because we've beaten that horse's corpse to a bloody stain many times throughout this thread.

If Reggie really wants to know why the game didn't sell so well, all he needs to do is read this thread from beginning to end. He's a sales executive. Does he even play the games he promotes? I don't know, but his problem is he is looking at its failure the wrong way. To his credit I think he did everything right on his end. The problem originated with Sakamoto and/or Team Ninja, and that was something that was outside of Reggie's hands.

[Luigi Dude]

If Reggie really wants to know why the game didn't sell so well, all he needs to do is read this thread from beginning to end. He's a sales executive. Does he even play the games he promotes? I don't know, but his problem is he is looking at its failure the wrong way. To his credit I think he did everything right on his end. The problem originated with Sakamoto and/or Team Ninja, and that was something that was outside of Reggie's hands.

What part of the game is selling better then Zero Mission don't you understand?  If the online reaction to the game were responsible for Other M's sales then Zero Mission should have been a million seller.  Instead, Zero Mission sold about half of what Fusion did, even though Zero Mission was praised way more by the message board crowd.

It's all about advertising.  You have to enough of them around so people will know about it, but you also have to make the ads something that people will understand and get interested in.  Zero Mission barely got any advertising back in 2004 while Fusion got a good amount back in 2002.  Even though the fans on the internet might like Zero Mission better, Fusion got the bigger sales thanks to more ads.  Now unlike Zero Mission, Other M actually got a lot of advertisements.  The only problem is the ads for Other M could only be understood by people who've played Super Metroid and Fusion.  So it doesn't matter how many times the ads were shown since only fans of the previous 2D Metroids would actually be interested in it.

I think what Reggie needs to realize is that even though the Metroid series is popular among hardcore Nintendo fans, it's basically non existent to the rest of Nintendo's audience.  The best selling Metroid game is the first Prime which was able to get between 2-3 million in it's entire lifetime.  In comparison, Mario, Zelda and Pokemon can do those numbers in their first month.  Because of that, Reggie needs to realize you can't just advertise Metroid on the name alone if you want it to be a much bigger seller.

This is the reason why the first Metroid Prime did so well because it had a great commercial that didn't rely on any knowledge of the previous Metroid games and did a good job of giving people an idea of what the gameplay is also about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewcljvJQAQA&feature=related

In comparison, all the later Metroid commercials including Other M pretty much just say, here's a new Metroid game, don't do anything to show how it plays and rely on people already knowing what Metroid is about in order to buy it.  Which is not a good way to increase the userbase of a series that already pales in comparison to your bigger ones.

[Chozo Ghost]

I get what you're saying, but in all honesty I don't think Other M is the best game to expand the series. Casuals aren't interested in this sort of game period, but Other M moves the closest of any Metroid game (unless you count Metroid Pinball) to appealing to the casual crowd, but it doesn't work because trying to sell Metroid to casuals is like trying to sell meatballs to a vegetarian. They're just not interested.

So that only leaves the hardcore/traditional gamers. This is the only demographic where the Metroid franchise can grow in. I'm sure a lot of us know people who are core gamers and have never tried Metroid in their lives. My question to you is if you were going to introduce a friend to Metroid for the very first time would Other M be the game you recommend to them? It isn't the game I would recommend to someone as an introductory to the series.

I'm not saying Other M is a bad game, but its only "fair" or "good" as far as Metroid games go. Someone playing that for the first time might be thinking "it was an okay game, but I don't see what all the fuss is about" and that's not the sort of first impression Nintendo should want its consumers to have of the franchise. So I'm not saying the game shouldn't be promoted, but it probably shouldn't be the game that is promoted to newcomers because its a very different experience than what the series is all about and people will get the wrong idea. It would be like someone judging the entire Mario franchise with their only knowledge of Mario coming from that movie from the 90s which starred Dennis Hopper as Koopa.

Metroid Prime was the best selling game in the series, and I'm sure marketing played some role in that, but to be fair it also must be noted that Metroid Prime was just a much better game. Period.

[KDR_11k]

Casual gamers don't give a crap about stories so why would a focus on them increase the appeal to casual gamers?

[DAaaMan64]

I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited. Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.

I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...

[broodwars]

I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...

Is DKCR getting a lot of attention, though?  On the most recent episode of Gametrailers' Invisible Walls podcast, they mentioned that the traffic they were getting on DKCR videos was astonishingly low for a Nintendo game about to release.  Granted, DKCR is probably going to see a lot of traction outside of our usual circles, but it is strange to see the game practically flying under the radar by Nintendo standards (though still nowhere near as badly as Excitebots did).

As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects.  While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story).  Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.

[KDR_11k]

I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited.

Um, what? Fresh visual styles tend to lower sales, not raise them.

Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.

But Other M is a completely different game, it's barely related to those Metroid games! The reason it sold worse is that it's marketed as a Metroid game and yet is a significantly worse Metroid game than the rest. Maybe it's a good non-Metroid game but that's not what it was marketed as.

I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...

DKCR is going to be a genuine big seller, Kirby is not. Kirby gets attention for its visuals but I can guarantee that's not going to translate into high sales. Besides, the media gave a lot more attention to Other M when that came out than Kirby now, mostly because of the controversy and extremely split opinions. I'm pretty sure having angry people complain about the game isn't going to help its sales.

The consumer reaction to the quality was strong but it wasn't strongly positive.

[DAaaMan64]

I just don't think Metroid was the type of game with a fresh enough visual style to get people excited.

Um, what? Fresh visual styles tend to lower sales, not raise them.

Can I see some evidence? A fresh excellent visual style is an advertising campaign in itself, the first 30 seconds of video footage is everything. It gets people talking.

Also, there have been a lot of Metroid games recently so it might have been a pie sliced to many times.

But Other M is a completely different game, it's barely related to those Metroid games! The reason it sold worse is that it's marketed as a Metroid game and yet is a significantly worse Metroid game than the rest. Maybe it's a good non-Metroid game but that's not what it was marketed as.

I disagree, I think we have been given too many Metroid games lately. Though I do really like Other M. My only comment on advertising is 1. there probably wasn't enough of it and 2. did other M get more advertising than games that sold less?

I mean compare it to the attention DKCR and Kirby are getting...

DKCR is going to be a genuine big seller, Kirby is not. Kirby gets attention for its visuals but I can guarantee that's not going to translate into high sales. Besides, the media gave a lot more attention to Other M when that came out than Kirby now, mostly because of the controversy and extremely split opinions. I'm pretty sure having angry people complain about the game isn't going to help its sales.

The consumer reaction to the quality was strong but it wasn't strongly positive.

I agree that negative consumer reaction destroys sales, I'm confident that that could be a major factor in Metroid's sales. Could it be stemmed from the initial complains about the NES control style?

[Mop it up]

If this game actually had a good story then I'd probably recommend it to people, but as it stands, I'd be more likely to point them toward the Metroid Prime Trilogy despite that it is hard to find.

[Chozo Ghost]

As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects.  While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story).  Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.

Agreed.

I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.

Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!

[GoldenPhoenix]

As for Other M's sales, I hope they were low enough to get Sakamoto banned from being in control of any further Metroid projects.  While I enjoyed my time with Other M, very little good came of any part of the game he mandated (the controls and the story).  Get Team Ninja back with someone else in charge (preferably someone from Retro Studios), and we could see a very cool sequel that would likely sell much better.

Agreed.

I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.

Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!

Yeah that idiot Sakamoto who directed Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission. Easily the worse Metroid games ever. Give me a break. Metroid  Other M was a high quality title, that is getting the same irrational hate that was directed at Metroid Fusion. At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.

[broodwars]

At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.

How could it when the game has barely any exploration at all and repeatedly deters you from trying it through arbitrarily-locked doors and sections requiring abilities that unlock via plot convenience (not to mention a game-ending crash caused by trying to explore)?  And honestly, Metroid Prime 1's "scavenger hunt" with the Crater seals wasn't that bad.  If you did your typical Metroid backtracking and exploration, chances are you ran across a large number if not most of them by the time you needed them.  Now, Metroid Prime 2 with the 3 keys to enter the Temples and the many keys to enter the final fight...that was an asinine scavenger hunt.

Like I've said before, I enjoyed my time with Other M, but all the parts that are weak or awful about Other M can be directly attributed to mandates from Sakamoto.  I'd rather not see him head another Metroid product, though I don't mind him being a consultant like he was on the Prime games.

[Luigi Dude]

I just wish there was some way Nintendo could reanimate the corpse of Gunpei Yokoi so they could rehire him. He was the mastermind behind Metroid in the first place. It is unfortunate that his legacy has been hijacked by this upstart Sakamoto.

Oh god not this again.  The original Metroid was mostly Sakamoto since he was the director while Gunpei Yokoi was only the producer.  Yokoi was the producer since he was in charge of R&D1 and so he overlooked all the projects made in that team.  But Sakamoto was the actual director who's responsible for the actual design of the game.  By your logic, Gunpei Yokoi should be given all the credit for the original Donkey Kong instead of Miyamoto since Yokoi was the producer of that game as well.

Not to mention the only Metroid games that Yokoi actually produced were the first two for the NES and Game Boy.  Because he was busy working on the Virtual Boy, he wasn't even able to overlook Super Metroids development which is why Makoto Kano is the producer of Super Metroid instead of Yokoi, with Sakamoto once again the director who was in charge of actually developing the game.

It's one thing to have a problem with Sakamoto's recent work, but to act like he had nothing to do with Super Metroid is just stupid when in fact he the one most responsible for Super Metroid being as good as it is.

Sakamoto should be sacked. Sack Sakamoto! Sack Sakamoto!

Oh yes, Iwata is going to fire the guy in charge of SPD 1 who's recent game Tomodachi Collection sold over 3 million copies in Japan and their game before that Rhythm Tengoku Gold sold over 1.5 million copies in Japan.     

This right here is the reason why Nintendo's not going to ban Sakamoto from making Metroid games because he's one of their more successful Japan oriented game developers.  Even if his Metroid games aren't bringing in big sales, his other games sure as hell are.  So if Other M somehow caused Iwata to get angry, the sales of Rhthym Tengoku Wii and the eventual Tomodachi Collection 3DS will make them good friends again.

Plus even if Sakamoto was to suddenly start producing bomb after bomb for the next decade, he'll still keep his job because of the fact that Sakamoto is also good friends with Miyamoto.  Sakamoto was recruited by Miyamoto to join Nintendo back in 1982 and his first game he worked on was Donkey Kong Jr.  He's basically one of the oldest friends Miyamoto has that still works for Nintendo.  The last thing in the world Iwata is ever going to do is piss of the companies most important game designer by firing one of his longtime friends.
 

[GoldenPhoenix]

At least Other M didn't have an asinine scavenger hunt like MP1 had.

How could it when the game has barely any exploration at all and repeatedly deters you from trying it through arbitrarily-locked doors and sections requiring abilities that unlock via plot convenience (not to mention a game-ending crash caused by trying to explore)?  And honestly, Metroid Prime 1's "scavenger hunt" with the Crater seals wasn't that bad.  If you did your typical Metroid backtracking and exploration, chances are you ran across a large number if not most of them by the time you needed them.  Now, Metroid Prime 2 with the 3 keys to enter the Temples and the many keys to enter the final fight...that was an asinine scavenger hunt.

Like I've said before, I enjoyed my time with Other M, but all the parts that are weak or awful about Other M can be directly attributed to mandates from Sakamoto.  I'd rather not see him head another Metroid product, though I don't mind him being a consultant like he was on the Prime games.

So a bug is Sakamotos fault? Seriously. It is the fault of nintendo for not having adequate patching for Wii.

About MP1, I had like half of them when I got to the end, I never even finished the game because I wasn't going to go on a Triforce, I mean, Seal scavenger hunt. They should have been placed in a more "as you go" way. Sorry but MP1 had game hurting flaws as well. Metroid Other M is Fusion in 3D, and I enjoyed Fusion. Your defense could be used for Wind Waker too "Well if you explored the game like a Zelda game then you shouldn't have that many triforce pieces to find". Uh huh.

It is absolutely childish to act like Other M sucked, because it didn't. Just because you may prefer another Metroid game to it doesn't make it a bad game like Chozo (and you to an extent) are making it out to be. The controls were fine, they worked with the design of the game, just the FPS switching back and forth was tedious. The story was no worse then most game stories, in fact I found it more interesting then many out there, it had its clunky dialogue here and there but overall it was a solid first effort.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't know what game you played, but Metroid Prime had no game hurting flaws (not to mention it didn't have a major glitch that prevented you from beating the game). Sakamoto is over-rated and is stuck in the past and does not know how to make a good console game anymore. MP craps all over Other M, the game is still better than most of the games coming out now.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't know what game you played, but Metroid Prime had no game hurting flaws (not to mention it didn't have a major glitch that prevented you from beating the game). Sakamoto is over-rated and is stuck in the past and does not know how to make a good console game anymore. MP craps all over Other M, the game is still better than most of the games coming out now.

Did you not read, I stated the fetch quest was my issue with MP, fetch quests are nothing more then artificial ways to extend a game. I've been playing the Metroid series since Metroid 1 was a new game, and I didn't even get half of the artifacts in MP1 when I fought the last possible boss. Guess I was playing it wrong then? Mmmk. Even Retro seems to have acknowledged that the fetch quests were a problem in MP1 and 2, because MP3 cut way down on it (Though still had one). Yes Metroid games have backtracking, but none of the prior games to MP1 had required fetch quests, perhaps the most abused gameplay extending gimmick around.

I forget though, it is perfect to the fanbois. My bad. It can't have any flaws, it is the perfect video game. Seriously, do you realize how some of you sound? Also if I recall Metroid Prime had its fair share of glitches including sometimes freezing completely when using an elevator or moving too quickly and not giving the game a chance to load. Which could crash it as well. To single out Other M is silly at best. Not only that but at least Nintendo is offering to fix the save so it works, no solution like that was presented like that for Metroid Prime's glitches. At most it is an inconvenience now, and does have a solution, even if it is less then stellar. I still think the Prime series is fantastic, but I think Other M is great too, they are just different takes on the Metroid franchise. There is nothing wrong with that.

Also the glitch complaint should be directed at Nintendo and their lack of a patching system, there have been far worse glitches that could be resolved on the other consoles or PC. Glitches happen, and the trouble with not being able to update a game means it remains unless you have some goofy solution like Nintendo has with the save. Twilight Princess had a game ending glitch as well, but once again it is more Nintendo's fault in general for not allowing games to be patched, heck even having a patching system for that matter.

[Chozo Ghost]

I did not say Sakamoto should be fired from Nintendo, I said he should be "sacked". The word means to remove someone from a position, not necessarily fire them (although, I understand how it can be confused). His casual games have sold extremely well and he should continue his work in that area, but Metroid isn't a casual game (or at least it shouldn't be treated as such), so that's why I believe a different talent needs to be involved with that. Retro has proven themselves capable in this respect.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I did not say Sakamoto should be fired from Nintendo, I said he should be "sacked". The word means to remove someone from a position, not necessarily fire them (although, I understand how it can be confused). His casual games have sold extremely well and he should continue his work in that area, but Metroid isn't a casual game (or at least it shouldn't be treated as such), so that's why I believe a different talent needs to be involved with that. Retro has proven themselves capable in this respect.

Retro may have proven themselves but even huge fans of the trilogy have indicated the games were starting to get stale. If anything Metroid needs someone new to take it over, which Team Ninja did. The series needs to evolve, and perhaps another outsider would be prefect to continue that evolution. Besides I'd rather Retro develop other stuff, I want their talents utilized to create different types of games, not another Metroid game. Look at DKC:R, it appears to be fantastic and it would not be possible if they were still making the FPA Metroid Prime series.

[KDR_11k]

That's the old "We need to do something! X is something! Therefore we need to do X!" fallacy. Prime getting stale does not mean Other M was the right step. It was a change, yes but so is turning Metroid into an SRPG. Needing change does not automatically sanctify any random change. It needs GOOD changes and Other M proved itself to be a bad change.

[GoldenPhoenix]

That's the old "We need to do something! X is something! Therefore we need to do X!" fallacy. Prime getting stale does not mean Other M was the right step. It was a change, yes but so is turning Metroid into an SRPG. Needing change does not automatically sanctify any random change. It needs GOOD changes and Other M proved itself to be a bad change.

To you it proved, it, but overall the game was pretty well received by those that gave it a fair chance. Your opinion does not make it the only reality. The fact is still that Metroid needed a fresh start whether one thinks Team Ninja and Sakamoto had a solid first step is up to debate, but most would agree the Prime formula, regardless of how great the games were, needed to shaken up. Really as much as I loved Other M, I'd like to see someone new take it over, just not sure who that would be.

[Ian Sane]

I think of Sakamoto as someone who made some great games with the earlier Metroid titles but either got hung up on things that don't really matter to the Metroid series or enjoyed different things about Metroid than the fans did.  He reminds me a lot of George Lucas.

Sakamoto wants to tell the story of Samus and it might be entirely that he couldn't do it with Super Metroid.  As the technology improved he found he could tell more and more of a story.  But Metroid is a non-linear game and stories have to be linear.  So to tell his story he has to make Metroid less Metroid-like and make it more linear.  And unfortunately Sakamoto is a shitty storyteller.  It is also possible that his tastes changed as he aged and he just now finds story more important than he did back in 1994.  Either way he has to compromise Metroid to bring it in the direction he wants.  I liked Metroid Fusion but in retrospect it really foreshadows Other M's direction.  Metroid Fusion was one step in a linear story-based direction and Other M just takes it a step further.  I more or less have a line in my mind of what would keep a Metroid game feeling like Metroid and what wouldn't.  Metroid Fusion approached the line and did not cross it while Other M did.  So I think Other M is a terrible Metroid game mostly because it no longer feels like a Metroid game.

Sakomoto should not be involved with Metroid because he is not interested in making Metroid games.  He wants to make something different and should be allowed to create a new IP to get his linear-action-game-with-junior-high-level-storytelling fix on, while Metroid should be assigned to someone who wants to make Metroid games.  And this goes for all Nintendo IPs.

[DAaaMan64]

I hate it when I come into a freakin' debate about something and my **** always gets ignored >.>