Topic: RetroActive #9: Geist (Special Edition)

[Jonnyboy117]

Although we love having the polls to choose RetroActive games, a special opportunity came up for a game that was recently featured in a "shout out" on the podcast. So, we've decided that the next RetroActive game will be Geist, the spectral shooter/puzzler for GameCube. This game was developed by n-Space and, despite being published by Nintendo with some input from Miyamoto, it was largely overlooked in its day.

What makes this a special edition of RetroActive is that we're going to have a special guest on the show: Jeff Kalles, who was the NOA producer on Geist. (He now works for Penny Arcade, so we'll be asking him about PAX as well.) It will be a very cool opportunity for all of us to pick Jeff's brain and learn more about this unusual game. Of course, we'll be happy to ask Jeff some questions from this forum thread, as well as read some of your comments and observations and get his reactions. Jeff will be on Episode 163, so you have until the afternoon of Thursday, 9/24 to post any questions or comments specifically for him.

We expect that the Geist discussion will continue through Episode 164 as well, and our current plan is to have Mike "StrikerObi" Sklens back to discuss the game, since he is a big fan of Geist from way back. (He also co-founded our little podcast.)


Mike's Geist Review (8.0)
TYP's Geist Interview with Jeff Kalles

Get your own copy of Geist for RetroActive:
Amazon
GameStop
Buy.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Very cool, I'll have to put my copy in again!

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Classy.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Very cool.  My copy should be in the mail in a few days.

[Mop it up]

I got Geist a while back but I never got around to playing it. This might be a good excuse to give it a try.

[christhewing]

This is one of my favorite GCN games, in the top 20 at least .  I'll have to give it another spin.

[Plugabugz]

I'm out. This was one of the first games to cause dizzyness that got worse the further i went into the game.

And yet, weirdly, the gameplay wasn't to blame!

[Crimm]

If yon don't own a copy (I didn't) you can get Geist on Amazon pretty cheap.  I ordered my copy yesterday for about six bucks new.

[Nick DiMola]

I love Geist. Sure it was a little rough around the edges and went through development hell, but it turned out to be a fun and interesting game. I'd love to see the series resurrected on Wii with great controls (one of my gripes with the original). If they were to make a sequel, they'd have a clear concept from the start which should provide for a shorter development time and more polished, tighter results.

[Smash_Brother]

I LOVED Geist. The gameplay was so creative and awesome...

Any game where you can possess a showerhead in a women's locker room to spook the girl taking a shower is just automatically a 20 out of 10.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I seem to recall the game having extremely clunky controls.

[Mop it up]

I seem to recall the game having extremely clunky controls.

That's what I've heard too.
Is that going to stop you from playing it for this?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I seem to recall the game having extremely clunky controls.

That's what I've heard too.
Is that going to stop you from playing it for this?

Oh I'll deal with it, I want to try the game again! I remember having fun but like usual it got put off to the side.

[Cambot]

Cool, I found Geist yesterday for $5.00. I'm enjoying it so far, though I'm only up to the part where you possess your first in-mission animals.

[NWR_pap64]

Geist is a criminally underrated game. The concept alone was amazing and kept me playing for hours on end. You get such an immense feeling of satisfaction when you figure out what to do and you complete a puzzle or event in a grand manner.

As for the controls note that while the game does have some issues it is playable.

[christhewing]

The controls never bothered me, maybe I'm remembering through rose colored glasses, but I played it from start to finish and I didn't through the controller across the room once, NOT ONCE!

[Perm's Stupid Dupe]

when i bought it when it came out i got a crazy deal where it was only $9.00 at toys r us, but I also had to buy two other games at regular price. It ended up being worth about $9.

[Plugabugz]

*bump*
 
So nobody can help me then?

Well moist electric screwdriver you! I will go back to Burnout Paradise today, after a long hiatus away from the 3. I'm amazed at how the thing attracts dust even though its plugged out entirely.

[GoldenPhoenix]

*bump*
 
So nobody can help me then?

Well moist electric screwdriver you! I will go back to Burnout Paradise today, after a long hiatus away from the 3. I'm amazed at how the thing attracts dust even though its plugged out entirely.

Change the tea you are drinking, that should help with the dizziness.

[Mop it up]

Plugabugz, have you tried taking any medicines to combat the dizziness? There is someone I talk to on another forum who gets motion sickness from playing some videogames, mostly first-person shooters. Recently he has started taking medicine called Dramamine which he says has really helped quell the dizziness, though he hasn't yet tried it with all of the games that affect him. I don't know if Dramamine is available where you live but maybe you could find something similar.

[Plugabugz]

It's only certain games tho. But no to medication. It's not something thats worth bothering the doctor over either. It never happens with any of my PS3 games, but it happened most recently with The Conduit (albeit slightly) and Metroid Prime 3 a little. I never finished Geist and Okami because it just got worse.

[Crimm]

My copy just arrived.

Fantastic.

[Stratos]

I'm going to try and snag a used copy at a local store but I'm not sure how much time I'll have to play it. But I always wanted to try this game and the chance to hear comments from one of the devs has me rather excited.

Is this going to count as the GameCube RetroActive system poll or are we going to still have that poll later? What system we we due to have next?

[Jonnyboy117]

We'll probably do a GameCube poll at some point, but it may be a while since Geist is already the third GameCube title we've done for RetroActive. The next poll is still going to be for Genesis, so stay tuned on that.

It's been a hectic week, but I finally picked up Geist over the weekend. Now I just have to pop it in and start playing it! Believe me, I'm eager to do so, just have to get some other things out of the way or out of my mind.

[gojira]

Did a bunch of other people Gamefly Geist as well?  It's at the top of my queue, and before I had the chance to send back a game, it went from "available" to "long wait" in the last couple of days.  Now I'm not sure if I'll have the chance to play the game any time soon.

[Jonnyboy117]

LOL, RetroActive is taking over GameFly. Or else they only have a couple of copies.

gojira, it's really quite cheap for a used copy. If you can afford $6 on it, there is still time.

[gojira]

LOL, RetroActive is taking over GameFly. Or else they only have a couple of copies.

gojira, it's really quite cheap for a used copy. If you can afford $6 on it, there is still time.

I know, and I'd probably do it if I didn't just buy a 360 and a bunch of games.  Six dollars or whatever isn't much and I could definitely afford it.  It's just that I have way too many games right now that I need to play.  I've even put off my purchase of Muramasa which I planned on getting right away. 

[Mop it up]

Gamefly still rents GameCube games? That's pretty cool. If the service was cheaper then I might subscribe to it, but I'd rather use that money to actually buy games with.

[gojira]

Gamefly still rents GameCube games? That's pretty cool. If the service was cheaper then I might subscribe to it, but I'd rather use that money to actually buy games with.

They even still rent GBA games.  I found that using a service like Gamefly saves me money.  I'm the type of person who wants to play every game.  And when it comes to purchases, I still buy the AAA games I know I'm going to enjoy and rent whatever I'm interested in. 

[Rize]

I remember liking this at E3 '05, but I couldn't get into it at when I finally brought a copy home.  Some day I'll have to give it another shot... maybe if I break my legs and end up in a bed for a few months.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I got it via Goozex, but it's really taking forever to get here.  First guy who accepted the trade messaged me a few days later apologizing because he didn't really have it.  Come on, don't accept the trade if you don't have the game.

Now waiting for guy #2 to accept the trade. 

[Jonnyboy117]

Word of warning: we had to move up our talk with Jeff to Wednesday night (that's tomorrow!), so if you have any questions or comments for him, start posting those now.

[ShyGuy]

Ask him if he thinks most of the best tricks of the game are in the first few levels.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Unfortunately I cannot find my copy of Geist, but I have a couple of questions with him:

1. Geist had various polish issues. Was the game rushed, were their any significant problems in the development process?

2. Has he heard any news of a sequel? Were there any plans after the completion of Geist for a sequel?

3. What were the sales like for it?

4. What did he feel worked, and did not work in  the final product?

[Mop it up]

Ask him why it was titled "Geist" instead of "Poltergeist".

[ShyGuy]

Ask him if he thinks putting all the development time into the split screen multiplayer was worth it.

[GearBoxClock]

Hurm. I remember this had a  lot of fanfare, but didn't flesh out some of the more interesting aspects. The EB Games near my house has a copy for $5, I should pick it up.

Also, ask him what the finished product would have been like if it had more time to be developed and polished.

[Jonnyboy117]

The interview is long past and can now be heard in Episode 163. However, we'll talk about some of these questions on the next episode, as well as read aloud some of your comments on the game (so start posting your comments, please!).

[ejamer]

Geist is a game that I've wanted to try for a long time - the concept of possession to progress is great- but have never settled down to play because of reported issues with polish and gameplay.  This RetroActive playthrough is just the boot needed to actually buy and play the game!

----

About an hour in after starting last night, and my initial impressions are that Geist has great ideas but also some problems in implementation.

The initial FPS section felt awkward -- was my preference against dual-analogs just showing through? -- but after switching to an incorporeal body everything felt much smoother and gameplay was more puzzle-like.  The change of pace was enjoyable, and the broad goal (escape from the containment area) forced me to explore and experiment instead of simply leading me by the hand through each step of the escape.  If the rest of the game follows these lines and includes some creative or unusual puzzles, then Geist should be very enjoyable.

----

Have other people started playing?  And how far should we play through during this week?  The fewer spoilers posted the more enjoyable the game will be, so I'm hoping not to read too much until getting into the game.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Hey ejamer, I recognize you from the infendo comment threads.  I used to post over there as Andrew-MG.  Nice to see you over here at NWR.

I finally got my copy of the game in the mail yesterday and I played for a bit.  The game looks and plays above my expectations thus far, and I'm hoping to dig into the game some more this evening.  I only got to play the first 30 minutes or so. 

But so far, I'm impressed!

[GearBoxClock]

I got Geist recently, and I am glad I did. The puzzles make sense, although some of the layout could've been more intuitive. The possessions of non-humans are enjoyable, and the fact that some of the earlier sections allow for a semi-stealthy approach (pretend to be an enemy) is very enjoyable. The story is of decent quality, although I'm still very early in the game, and the voice acting is fairly good. I wouldn't classify it as horror, as much as First Person Action/Puzzle. Overall, this is a very enjoyable game.

[Jonnyboy117]

I'm getting close to finishing the story mode. Has anyone tried multiplayer? How does that even work, and is it fun?

[bustin98]

Yeah, I played multi-player, a long time ago. It has some fun elements to it, but its your basic stuff with some gimmicks. Its been so long that I guess I can't really comment too much on it. Sorry...

[gojira]

Got Geist from Gamefly today.  Initially I wasn't too impressed.  I don't really care for the FPS genre and I've been playing through the Metroid Prime Trilogy, so the game felt very clunky to me.  But once you became a ghost and start doing more of the puzzle stuff I got into it.  That being said, the game kinda reminds me of Mirror's Edge where I really tried to avoid combat when I could.  Maybe the dual analog FPS vets out there don't have the problems I do, but it just doesn't jive with my tastes.  There have been some great parts especially that bit at the beginning where you were being trained in the faux utopian type place.  Definitely looking forward to playing more.

[ejamer]

... That being said, the game kinda reminds me of Mirror's Edge where I really tried to avoid combat when I could.   ...

(Note: Only at the second boss so far, so not very deep in the game.)

I agree that combat just doesn't feel very smooth or interesting, and it's much better to avoid fighting whenever possible - at least initially.  But you can't avoid fighting forever.  Luckily, combat improved the further I got into the game as I began to mix fighting and possession in more interesting ways.

Initially I would possess a body and then play "normally" for as long as possible until being forced to jump into something else.  But that didn't take advantage of the unique gameplay for Geist and led to a disappointingly "ordinary" FPS experience.

Over time I've gotten more used to jumping in and out of bodies to help with combat - first by scouting out an area to see what's ahead, and later taking advantage of inanimate objects (grenades, explosive boxes, gun turrets) during busy combat moments.  Both the first and second bosses

I'm hoping the game will find more reasons to spend time in your incorporeal form as it continues, and place less and less focus on normal FPS action... so far it really hasn't lived up to it's potential, but has offered flashes of brilliance.

[Jonnyboy117]

I'm hoping the game will find more reasons to spend time in your incorporeal form as it continues, and place less and less focus on normal FPS action... so far it really hasn't lived up to it's potential, but has offered flashes of brilliance.

Keep playing. There is one entire chapter played in ghost form, and it is very cool.

[trip1eX]

Fun interesting game that was held back by the sub-standard production values. 

It's a bit like Red Steel in that regard.

[GearBoxClock]

I'm getting close to finishing the story mode. Has anyone tried multiplayer? How does that even work, and is it fun?

Ehh, I tried it against bots and with a friend. The multiplayer is fairly average. Its not bad, but it probably could've been better. I do have quite a bit of fun with some of it, but the capture the host mode... I don't enjoy it.

[gojira]

Finally finished Geist.  I have to say it definitely peaks in the middle.  The game already has wonky controls, but then on top of that you have to fight them even more so because of certain enemies introduced later in the game.  And at points during the final boss fight your control is altered as well.  Also you basically don't need to leave your body for the last couple of levels.  Outside the of the fight against the two creatures at once, the end of the game was a bit of a chore. 

Where the game really shines are the possession puzzles or fights that use possession in interesting ways.  The game has so much potential in that aspect.  For instance, I got to like some of the characters I possessed.  It would be really interesting if they expanded on that.

Ultimately despite not really enjoying the shooter parts I feel overall it is a very worthwhile game to play.  It has a lot of very interesting ideas.  The story is pretty good and I liked a lot of the characters.  It's unfortunate there hasn't been a Geist 2 to take the better parts and expand on them further. 

[Jonnyboy117]

I too just got to the end, though I haven't and probably won't beat the game. The first "final" boss is excellent, requiring all the skills (including strategic possession) that you've learned up to that point. The second and truly final boss is a massive pain, though. I don't even mind the fact that it plays differently from everything else -- my problem is how you're being pushed around on currents of ethereal wind, which makes dodging (or even seeing) sometimes impossible. I gave up after several attempts, convinced that I was playing it as well as possible and was only being defeated by bad luck or inability to fully control my character. That's the only part of the game that truly pissed me off, but at least it came at the end.

[gojira]

I too just got to the end, though I haven't and probably won't beat the game. The first "final" boss is excellent, requiring all the skills (including strategic possession) that you've learned up to that point.

Hmm... I guess we defeated that boss differently.  I never possessed anything for that fight.  What were you able to possess?  It probably would've made the fight quicker.  Though the way I did it wasn't that difficult.

As far as the true final boss, I had the same exact issues.  But the rage that built up inside of me as I repeatedly died eventually fueled my determination to beat that ****er. 

[Jonnyboy117]

I never possessed anything for that fight.  What were you able to possess?

You can possess the rockets he fires by activating speed boost, moving to a safe distance, then dispossessing and "catching" the rocket before it hits the ground. Then you get to fly the rocket around the room and slam it into his flying wheelchair. It's freaking awesome and knocks off 1/4 of his life. I figured out this tactic on my own, but it's highly recommended on GameFAQs (which I checked after dying on the true final boss enough times).

[darkframes]

Hey guys my copy just showed up. When are you gonna... Oh

[darkframes]

Firstly it has some truly original parts and really impresses. The part in which you become a spectre for the first time still holds up and is pretty nice visually. FPS parts are pretty much standard for the time and hardware. The story flows pretty well and I have had a couple of pretty good boss fights. One of them had me fight a guy who was armed and had a riot shield. Once in a while he'd throw a grenade which I could then posses and roll behind him. It's pretty effective and unique. In fact I'd say there's a few idea's here that dev's would do well to steal.

Possessing animals is great and each one is has unique abilities for you to think about using.

So the FPS parts are pretty bland. Point and shoot but the parts requiring you to think hold up.

[llaffer]

I'm a few weeks late in my podcast listening.  When I heard them talk with the producer of the game a few weeks ago, I decided to give it a try, put it on the top of my GameFly queue, and I got it a week later.

I've only gotten to sit down twice with it, and I've already boxed it up and sent it back.

I'm not a FPS fan at all, I've been trying off and on since Wolfenstein 3D was first released.  I just was hoping it was more of a puzzler than a shooter (like Portal was).

First I got stuck in the room with three terminals and I had to find the code to unlock the door.  First, it wasn't very apparent that there was a keypad on the door, and second, I walked by those terminals five times, and never once noticed the one on the far left.  Both of these things can be clumped into the same game flaw: It's not obvious enough which items can be manipulated.  I hate running to gamefaqs to find the solution to a puzzle, and even more so when it's during the tutorial stages of a game.  But last night I got the code and entered the next area.

I then got stuck next on the area where I have to press the button to call the tram, you get in, pull the lever to get to the other side, while fighting armed guards.  I've never been able to get my host to survive this, and I've not found any other hosts around so I could manipulate the door to advance.

At this point, I've ejected the disk and put it back in the mailer.

[ejamer]

Ha!  Finally finished the game this weekend.  It wasn't really a long game, but I never felt the urge to sit down and play without really forcing myself to.

So the big question is: would I recommend that others play the game?  Short answer is NO.  (And to whoever picked the game from NWR, thanks a ton for the pain and suffering you've caused!)


Problems?  Geist's got 'em.  Controls never felt good when moving and shooting, which is odd when FPS combat ends up being the main focus of the game.  Puzzles were few and far between (and totally linear when you did get to them).  Key objects to use or possess were sometimes hidden or obscured, making it tough to know what you need to do next in a couple of cases.  Several cases of getting "stuck" on level geometry and being forced to restart levels because there was no way to move or escape.  Taking entire levels without needing to use your poltergeist abilities - which should be the entire focus and selling point for the game.  The final boss was just so disappointing because the only real challenge was fighting your own controls.  A storyline that desperately needed a second cut.  And was anyone else sick of loading time between levels and reloads by the end of this game?  Maybe it's just me, but everytime I died it seemed better to just shut the system down than wait a full minute (usually fuming) before getting to play again - a stark reminder why I preferred N64 over PS1.

Again, I probably wouldn't care as much if the game didn't have some real merit too.  Geist has a great premise and it's obvious that the development team had some interesting goals... but for whatever, they just didn't deliver on the promise at the end of the day.

What did I like about the game?  The penultimate boss battle against Volks and his demonic wheelchair was well done.  The animal possession and "scare" puzzles were both interesting.  The ability to play affect time by possessing/dispossessing hosts was also great, as were the unique abilities and attributes new host would offer.

Geist had so much possibility as an action/adventure/puzzle title... it's really a shame that they fell into the FPS trap instead, because that is probably the worst part of the game.