Topic: Rate the last TV show you've seen

[Pixelated Pixies]

They had Francis make a move in the 4th Episode that he wouldn't make by the established character and well it started going down hill from their.

I just finished this as well and thought it was gripping. Watching Frank do his thing was incredibly entertaining throughout the series, and I even got really caught up in Russo's arch which was tragic to say the least.
 
Remind me, what was the move you're referring to?

[Ceric]

They had Francis make a move in the 4th Episode that he wouldn't make by the established character and well it started going down hill from their.

I just finished this as well and thought it was gripping. Watching Frank do his thing was incredibly entertaining throughout the series, and I even got really caught up in Russo's arch which was tragic to say the least.
 
Remind me, what was the move you're referring to?

After lecturing Russo about this and that he turns around and Sleeps with the Reporter.  Which is fine if it was just a business move like they played it off to be that episode later on but, then a couple episode laters when she wants to stop that side of it, one she initiated, he can't really handle it and throws a hissy fit.
I'm sorry you can't be that good of a Manipulator for 30 years and make such a Rookie mistake.

Through I guess they had to find a way to make more of the cast more than background players.

Don't get me wrong their are some really good parts of this series and I can definitely identify with Early Francis but, well I just see them already on the slope to pull a Dexter.

[Pixelated Pixies]

After lecturing Russo about this and that he turns around and Sleeps with the Reporter.  Which is fine if it was just a business move like they played it off to be that episode later on but, then a couple episode laters when she wants to stop that side of it, one she initiated, he can't really handle it and throws a hissy fit.
I'm sorry you can't be that good of a Manipulator for 30 years and make such a Rookie mistake.

Wow, I read those scenes in a completely different way.
 


I didn't get the sense that Frank was throwing a hissy fit. It was a blow to his ego perhaps, but it's all about power for Frank. When Zoe reaches her decision to kill that side of their relationship I think Frank was upset not because of the rebuke, but because that relationship was one of the few things in which he was still in control. Despite his well laid plans, Frank's influence and power was being eroded on all sides by his wife, Sandcorp, his colleagues on the hill and in the White House etc. His control over Zoe was one of the few things he had left that made him feel powerful.

[Ceric]

After lecturing Russo about this and that he turns around and Sleeps with the Reporter.  Which is fine if it was just a business move like they played it off to be that episode later on but, then a couple episode laters when she wants to stop that side of it, one she initiated, he can't really handle it and throws a hissy fit.
I'm sorry you can't be that good of a Manipulator for 30 years and make such a Rookie mistake.

Wow, I read those scenes in a completely different way.
 


I didn't get the sense that Frank was throwing a hissy fit. It was a blow to his ego perhaps, but it's all about power for Frank. When Zoe reaches her decision to kill that side of their relationship I think Frank was upset not because of the rebuke, but because that relationship was one of the few things in which he was still in control. Despite his well laid plans, Frank's influence and power was being eroded on all sides by his wife, Sandcorp, his colleagues on the hill and in the White House etc. His control over Zoe was one of the few things he had left that made him feel powerful.

But she was still a tool that he could use and how he handled it was not the professional planned disengagement you would expect from him.  The realization that as a tool she had now outlive her usefulness because the control was gone and to phase her out quitely.

[Pixelated Pixies]

After lecturing Russo about this and that he turns around and Sleeps with the Reporter.  Which is fine if it was just a business move like they played it off to be that episode later on but, then a couple episode laters when she wants to stop that side of it, one she initiated, he can't really handle it and throws a hissy fit.
I'm sorry you can't be that good of a Manipulator for 30 years and make such a Rookie mistake.

Wow, I read those scenes in a completely different way.
 


I didn't get the sense that Frank was throwing a hissy fit. It was a blow to his ego perhaps, but it's all about power for Frank. When Zoe reaches her decision to kill that side of their relationship I think Frank was upset not because of the rebuke, but because that relationship was one of the few things in which he was still in control. Despite his well laid plans, Frank's influence and power was being eroded on all sides by his wife, Sandcorp, his colleagues on the hill and in the White House etc. His control over Zoe was one of the few things he had left that made him feel powerful.

But she was still a tool that he could use and how he handled it was not the professional planned disengagement you would expect from him.  The realization that as a tool she had now outlive her usefulness because the control was gone and to phase her out quitely.

Perhaps. The way I look at though is that he's a person who likes to think he's above emotional responses, a person who is too intelligent to be blindsighted be someone he considers inferior to himself, but he's still a person. A person with faults and hang-ups.
 
Spacey's asides to the audience need to be put in context. His monologues are all from his perspective. I don't think we should assume that he is as effective a political operator as he believes himself to be. In fact, the conclusion of the series would indicate that his machinations have  been complacent and rather lazy. The real rookie mistake was using Zoe to publish two storys that could be linked together.
 
It seems like we both agree that Frank made some pretty stupid mistakes. Where we differ perhaps is that I think that those flaws are not only within his character, but are actually inherent to why he's such an interesting character.

[Ceric]

After lecturing Russo about this and that he turns around and Sleeps with the Reporter.  Which is fine if it was just a business move like they played it off to be that episode later on but, then a couple episode laters when she wants to stop that side of it, one she initiated, he can't really handle it and throws a hissy fit.
I'm sorry you can't be that good of a Manipulator for 30 years and make such a Rookie mistake.

Wow, I read those scenes in a completely different way.
 


I didn't get the sense that Frank was throwing a hissy fit. It was a blow to his ego perhaps, but it's all about power for Frank. When Zoe reaches her decision to kill that side of their relationship I think Frank was upset not because of the rebuke, but because that relationship was one of the few things in which he was still in control. Despite his well laid plans, Frank's influence and power was being eroded on all sides by his wife, Sandcorp, his colleagues on the hill and in the White House etc. His control over Zoe was one of the few things he had left that made him feel powerful.

But she was still a tool that he could use and how he handled it was not the professional planned disengagement you would expect from him.  The realization that as a tool she had now outlive her usefulness because the control was gone and to phase her out quitely.

Perhaps. The way I look at though is that he's a person who likes to think he's above emotional responses, a person who is too intelligent to be blindsighted be someone he considers inferior to himself, but he's still a person. A person with faults and hang-ups.
 
Spacey's asides to the audience need to be put in context. His monologues are all from his perspective. I don't think we should assume that he is as effective a political operator as he believes himself to be. In fact, the conclusion of the series would indicate that his machinations have  been complacent and rather lazy. The real rookie mistake was using Zoe to publish two storys that could be linked together.
 
It seems like we both agree that Frank made some pretty stupid mistakes. Where we differ perhaps is that I think that those flaws are not only within his character, but are actually inherent to why he's such an interesting character.

I might agree with you if hadn't already obtained the position he already has.  It proves that he is skillful in playing the game.  Probably not as skillful as he believes himself to be but, skillful none the less.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I might agree with you if hadn't already obtained the position he already has.  It proves that he is skillful in playing the game.  Probably not as skillful as he believes himself to be but, skillful none the less.

True. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take it from here. How cool would it be if the last series ended with Frank becoming president?

[Ceric]

I might agree with you if hadn't already obtained the position he already has.  It proves that he is skillful in playing the game.  Probably not as skillful as he believes himself to be but, skillful none the less.

True. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take it from here. How cool would it be if the last series ended with Frank becoming president?

They've already proven that the writers are uncapable of taking him there.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I watched the first 4 episodes of House of Cards last night, and honestly, it would have been more if I didn't have to go to work today.

This is nitty gritty low down and dirty politics at its finest.
It has a similar approach to the subject (politics) as House of Lies does to consulting, but this show is much more under handed in its delivery.

Can't wait to get home and knock a few more episodes.

That Netflix auto play almost kept me up all damn night.

[Ceric]

I watched the first 4 episodes of House of Cards last night, and honestly, it would have been more if I didn't have to go to work today.

This is nitty gritty low down and dirty politics at its finest.
It has a similar approach to the subject (politics) as House of Lies does to consulting, but this show is much more under handed in its delivery.

Can't wait to get home and knock a few more episodes.

That Netflix auto play almost kept me up all damn night.

Episode 4 I think is the high point for me but, the other episodes are good.

[gbuell]

They've already proven that the writers are uncapable of taking him there.

Huh? What do you mean by that?

Anyway I totally disagree that Frank breaks character in the 4th episode. In fact it seems that's business as usual in his world, and is almost certainly not the first time he's been involved in such an arrangement. His wife certainly acts like it's not too surprising, anyway. When he "throws a hissy fit" later on, all it shows is that he's not a robot. He would be a far less interesting character if he made no mistakes and had no emotional responses to anything. They're still building his character by the 4th episode, and if you get upset by a new wrinkle they add to his personality at that point, it just looks like you desire a two-dimensional character rather than a three-dimensional one.


Also, I've got to say that Robin Wright's role is one of the best female characters I've seen on TV in a long time.

[Ceric]

They've already proven that the writers are uncapable of taking him there.

Huh? What do you mean by that?

Anyway I totally disagree that Frank breaks character in the 4th episode. In fact it seems that's business as usual in his world, and is almost certainly not the first time he's been involved in such an arrangement. His wife certainly acts like it's not too surprising, anyway. When he "throws a hissy fit" later on, all it shows is that he's not a robot. He would be a far less interesting character if he made no mistakes and had no emotional responses to anything. They're still building his character by the 4th episode, and if you get upset by a new wrinkle they add to his personality at that point, it just looks like you desire a two-dimensional character rather than a three-dimensional one.


Also, I've got to say that Robin Wright's role is one of the best female characters I've seen on TV in a long time.

He already had plenty of dimension.  He already made mistakes.  My problem is that the moment they did that the show instantly went into Idiot Plot territory.

[BranDonk Kong]

Everyone watch Hubris: Selling the Iraq War tonight on MSNBC, then we can all discuss that as the last show we watched and it won't count as political talk. Even if you don't want to talk about it, if you're an American you should watch it.

[Stogi]

I don't know how you guys can pick out episodes from House of Cards. After completing it, it's a blur. Episode 4 does nothing to jog my memory of actual fake events.

[NWR_insanolord]

Everyone watch Hubris: Selling the Iraq War tonight on MSNBC, then we can all discuss that as the last show we watched and it won't count as political talk. Even if you don't want to talk about it, if you're an American you should watch it.

No, everyone, do not do this. This is a very bad idea and would result in very negative consequences.

[BranDonk Kong]

Well at least watch it and then we can talk in the chatroom someday.

[Pixelated Pixies]

He already had plenty of dimension.  He already made mistakes.  My problem is that the moment they did that the show instantly went into Idiot Plot territory.

To be honest, I still don't completely understand what you find so egregious about that plot or where they took the character. It's like we watched different shows, lol.

[Ceric]

He already had plenty of dimension.  He already made mistakes.  My problem is that the moment they did that the show instantly went into Idiot Plot territory.

To be honest, I still don't completely understand what you find so egregious about that plot or where they took the character. It's like we watched different shows, lol.

I'm pretty sensitive to this type of stuff after getting pretty burned by Dexter.

[gbuell]

After finishing House of Cards there is one plot point I'm a little confused about:

Why did Frank get so angry at Claire for torpedoing the watershed bill? By the end of the season, it's clear that Frank wanted Peter Russo's campaign to fail, and the death of the watershed bill helped make that happen.

[Ceric]

After finishing House of Cards there is one plot point I'm a little confused about:

Why did Frank get so angry at Claire for torpedoing the watershed bill? By the end of the season, it's clear that Frank wanted Peter Russo's campaign to fail, and the death of the watershed bill helped make that happen.

It caused his plan to be implemented prematurely.  He wanted Russo to "naturally" spiral to irrelevancy after he kicked started him.  The Water Shed bill would have given the party the boost it needed to make this an easier victory for the VP.  Plus it would have given him some klout with Pennsylvania for HIS VP bid.  That and also Claire as a tool did not function how he wanted to.  Part of the reason he threw the Hissy fit with Zoe.  Coupled with he made promises and keeping the reputation of someone who can deliver is very powerful in politics.

[Pixelated Pixies]

After finishing House of Cards there is one plot point I'm a little confused about:

Why did Frank get so angry at Claire for torpedoing the watershed bill? By the end of the season, it's clear that Frank wanted Peter Russo's campaign to fail, and the death of the watershed bill helped make that happen.

Frank did want Russo's campaign to ultimately fail, but he wanted the collapse of that campaign to be because of Russo's weakness rather than Frank's own miscalculation. Passing the watershed bill would have been another feather in Frank's cap, further proof that he would be a worthy nominee for vice-president. I think Frank's whole plan was to pick a candidate who Matthews did not deem good enough to be his replacement as governor, get matthews out there on the campaign trail to remind him of what he was missing, then leave it until the closing stages of the campaign to destroy Russo so that the only person capable of turning it around would be the former Governor himself. Basically, the plan was to not only convince Matthews that he wanted to be Governer again, but also to hold off on destroying Russo until such a late stage in the campaign that Matthews was the only one capable of fixing the problem (which fed into Matthews desire to feel like he was doing something productive).
 
The failure of the Watershed Bill was a set back as it made Frank as a Whip look incompetent, and therefore less likely to be nominated for VP, but clearly it didn't stop him from succeeding.

[Stogi]

What I don't get about that situation is...

If the end game was always to have Peter Russo fail, then why didn't Frank and Claire come to an agreement before the bill failed to let it fail?

[gbuell]

I buy that explanation, Pixies (which answers your question, Stogi.)

[Ceric]

I buy that explanation, Pixies (which answers your question, Stogi.)

Fine then ;(

[Pixelated Pixies]

Fine then ;(

lol
 
Yeah, we basically said the same thing. The only difference is that I'm inefficient with my words.