Author Topic: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III  (Read 18478 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 07:36:24 PM »
I would never say sales equal quality (heck I remember that Matrix game selling like 4 million copies or something). Though it does say something about the userbase, and frankly I don't know what the PS3 userbase is anymore. On a side not I ordered Afrika and cannot wait!
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2008, 08:00:04 PM »
frankly I don't know what the PS3 userbase is anymore.

I agree. If sony wants to have the strong fanbase that Nintendo enjoys... and CONTINUES to enjoy, I believe... then they need to find some way to impart identity to them.

On a side not I ordered Afrika and cannot wait!

Maybe the PS3 fanbase should be... people like YOOOUUUUooouuuoOOOUUUU!!! *ooh I scared myself*
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2008, 12:09:00 PM »
It's the same way with BG&E. It is far more than the sum of its arbitrary score values. No individual score would really stand out, and if forced to review the game, I would probably give it an 8. But you know what? It's so much more than that. There is no score for "heart and soul" or "identification with the main characters" or "that was freaking awesome!"

Oh yes there is a score for that, it's the final score. If the experience was so fucking awesome why wouldn't you give it a ten? I think for example EDF2 deserves one, it's not terribly polished or anything but playing it feels so awesome it deserves no less than top marks because in the end technology, polish, controls, game time, etc are just means to an end: A better experience. If a game gives an awesome experience don't be afraid to rate it highly even if it's not high budget or whatever. Rate how great the experience is. Rate how much you think people should play it. Don't rate the "total package" because that's a way of saying that you add/subtract points because of some technical or other secondary issues, things that you think make a game deserving of a different scorre despite of the core experience.

By the way, I think BG&E is overrated, the game isn't that interesting to play. Too much stealth.

Offline Rize

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2008, 02:33:45 PM »
I think a price cut would help Sony when it didn't help Nintendo.  The PS2 was exceptionally dominant.  There are still hoards of people that don't have a 360 or a PS3 and they would prefer to buy a PS3 if they could afford it.  Right now they're buying Wii's instead because it's inexpensive and brings something new to the table.  The Wii will tide them over until Sony drops the price into an affordable range.  The trouble is the PS3 is *really* expensive to manufacture.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2008, 02:48:33 PM »
I think a price cut would help Sony when it didn't help Nintendo.  The PS2 was exceptionally dominant.  There are still hoards of people that don't have a 360 or a PS3 and they would prefer to buy a PS3 if they could afford it.  Right now they're buying Wii's instead because it's inexpensive and brings something new to the table.  The Wii will tide them over until Sony drops the price into an affordable range.  The trouble is the PS3 is *really* expensive to manufacture.

Why would people prefer a PS3? Xbox 360 has far more exclusive games, has the best online infrastructure (even if it paid), has a well designed marketplace, has tons of original Xbox Arcade. Not to mention that Sony's "key" brands have really no system selling power. The reason PS2 and PS One did well wasn't because of some fanboi obsession with Sony but the 3rd party exclusives.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2008, 03:29:11 PM »
Why would people prefer a PS3?

I would prefer a PS3 for the simple reason that I wouldn't have to hold my breath every time I turned the system on for fear that I would exhale too hard and RROD the console.
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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2008, 03:48:28 PM »
It's the same way with BG&E. It is far more than the sum of its arbitrary score values. No individual score would really stand out, and if forced to review the game, I would probably give it an 8. But you know what? It's so much more than that. There is no score for "heart and soul" or "identification with the main characters" or "that was freaking awesome!"

Oh yes there is a score for that, it's the final score. If the experience was so ****ing awesome why wouldn't you give it a ten? I think for example EDF2 deserves one, it's not terribly polished or anything but playing it feels so awesome it deserves no less than top marks because in the end technology, polish, controls, game time, etc are just means to an end: A better experience. If a game gives an awesome experience don't be afraid to rate it highly even if it's not high budget or whatever. Rate how great the experience is. Rate how much you think people should play it. Don't rate the "total package" because that's a way of saying that you add/subtract points because of some technical or other secondary issues, things that you think make a game deserving of a different scorre despite of the core experience.

By the way, I think BG&E is overrated, the game isn't that interesting to play. Too much stealth.

Final score is great, but when people look at your other scores (Graphics, Sound, Control, Gameplay, Lastability) and those are mediocre, and then they see the final score and it's perfect, there's a disconnect there. Numerical values do not equal reason to play a game. Here at NWR, we're lucky enough to be able to choose our poison, as it were, or what games we review. It is rare that anyone is assigned anything. So we generally review what we think we'll enjoy, or at the very least, not gouge our eyes out over.

(Homie Rollez was a hilarious exception!)

But even so, it's still ONE PERSON'S view on a game. I loved Tomb Raider: Underworld (DS), but Metts might hate it. Our numerical scores might differ significantly. So to me, it's more important in a review to express how the game feels, what the experience is like. If I were to write reviews my way, you wouldn't recognize them as such. Again, we're tied to the numerical score system here, and that review system forces you to, in some way, justify those numbers. If I'm raving about BG&E, I'm not going to mention, in any great fashion, the midrange graphics or floaty platforming. I'm going to talk about the experience, the plot, everything that makes the game worth playing.

But this is a rant for another day.

BG&E isn't all about stealth. If you're good with the disk glove, you can disable most of the troopers in any given dungeon, then wander around at your leisure.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2008, 04:01:47 PM »
I think a price cut would help Sony when it didn't help Nintendo.  The PS2 was exceptionally dominant.  There are still hoards of people that don't have a 360 or a PS3 and they would prefer to buy a PS3 if they could afford it.  Right now they're buying Wii's instead because it's inexpensive and brings something new to the table.  The Wii will tide them over until Sony drops the price into an affordable range.  The trouble is the PS3 is *really* expensive to manufacture.

Would a price cut really help?  Do you really think that there are throngs of people who, instead of saving money for another month to get a PS3, are getting a Wii and a few games in order to "tide them over?"

I don't think a price cut will help Sony.  Especially not with the mainstream media turning against it.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2008, 04:15:56 PM »
I think a price cut would help Sony when it didn't help Nintendo.  The PS2 was exceptionally dominant.  There are still hoards of people that don't have a 360 or a PS3 and they would prefer to buy a PS3 if they could afford it.  Right now they're buying Wii's instead because it's inexpensive and brings something new to the table.  The Wii will tide them over until Sony drops the price into an affordable range.  The trouble is the PS3 is *really* expensive to manufacture.

Would a price cut really help?  Do you really think that there are throngs of people who, instead of saving money for another month to get a PS3, are getting a Wii and a few games in order to "tide them over?"

I don't think a price cut will help Sony.  Especially not with the mainstream media turning against it.

I don't think a price cut would hurt, obviously. Price is obviously a major hurdle for Sony. But I highly doubt that a price cut can do anything really significant for their position. It's still imperative that they continue to depress the PS3 price, but with a price cut having limited effect (as per GameCube comparison, or even recent 360 versus Wii comparison) doesn't justify some of the more extreme means it would require.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2008, 04:42:10 PM »
I think a price cut would help greatly.  I wasn't willing to pay $400, but when a special offer to get one for $250 (brand new, 80 gig) rolled along I snatched it right up!  Additionally, all of my buddies who picked one up waited at minimum, for some sort of Amazon deal for free games or blu rays.

At the end of the day though its all about GAMES and thats what they really need, exclusives.  Had GTA 4 been exclusive to Sony they'd be just fine, but titles like MGS 4, Uncharted, and Rachet, while great, just aren't popular enough to move millions.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2008, 06:15:37 PM »
A price drop might help them fight against Microsoft but it won't help against Nintendo at all. People who buy a Wii aren't buying it because it's cheap (the 360 is cheaper and yes that does include the one with the harddrive) but because it does what only the Wii does. Sony cannot take the Wii buyers away, the PS3 completely lacks the necessary qualities. The best they can do is pull people away from the 360 since the two are practically interchangeable. Unfortunately Sony tends to take the Apple stance by proclaiming that their value is so great that the price is a bargain when the value to most potential customers is much lower (they don't care about most of the features no matter how much the Sony defenders will argue about how great BluRay is). To most potential buyers both systems have roughly equal value and one being much cheaper makes a massive difference.

BG&E isn't all about stealth. If you're good with the disk glove, you can disable most of the troopers in any given dungeon, then wander around at your leisure.

Yeah, except in the one room I got stuck in. Two guards, almost no hiding spots and an insta-death laser next to the camera.

Offline D_Average

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2008, 07:02:34 PM »
Never thought about an MS v Apple comparison here, but that certainly seems to relate.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2008, 07:08:28 PM »
I do think Sony screwed up by not trying to put their focus on a particular franchise to define who they are. Both Nintendo and MS have games with established names that people relate to each company and stir up excitement (like GoW or Halo for MS and for NIntendo Mario and Zelda along with other franchises).Now Sony's only real draw is the hardware and as we've seen historically just because you have good hardware does not make a system successful if that is pretty much all it is relying on.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2008, 08:47:07 PM »
No, that's Sony's fault. They have plenty of triple-A franchises, but they don't incorporate those names into their ads. Ratchet & Clank, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, these are all great exclusive brands. However, the advertising focuses on the flexibility of the PS3/PSP and big shiny Blu-Ray movies. These are not things gamers care about. Nobody is listening to music on their PSP--that's what iPods are for. And Blu-Ray won't dominate the market until there's a good reason to give up DVD's, which are both cheaper and more embedded.

Guess what, Sony: We buy gaming consoles to play games.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2008, 08:53:37 PM »
Well MGS isn't really a Sony franchise, Ratchet and Clank, is well, perceived as more of a Mario clone than anything and God of War is an action game in the midst of other action games. None of those games really stand out as THE game to play in a genre like Halo, and in fact some are seen as Halo clones like Resistance. But you are right lots of it has to do with advertising, but some of it has to do with the fact they never "found themselves" in the PSone or PS2 generation as a game maker, at least in the eyes of people.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2008, 08:58:45 PM »
You'd think that Gran Turismo could've evolved into their key franchise, but I have no idea what happened to that series.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2008, 09:01:41 PM »
You'd think that Gran Turismo could've evolved into their key franchise, but I have no idea what happened to that series.

Yeah, personally I think the "realistic" racer genre is pretty niche to begin with, so it is king of a mole hill.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2008, 09:58:31 PM »
I do think Sony screwed up by not trying to put their focus on a particular franchise to define who they are. Both Nintendo and MS have games with established names that people relate to each company and stir up excitement (like GoW or Halo for MS and for NIntendo Mario and Zelda along with other franchises).Now Sony's only real draw is the hardware and as we've seen historically just because you have good hardware does not make a system successful if that is pretty much all it is relying on.

Well Golden Sony's greatest weakness is also Microsoft's greatest weakness, if either one of them loses big 3rd party support or exclusives they are toast because compared to Nintendo Microsoft and Sony's first party is subpar. But this generation the strongest 2 first parties are Nintendo and Sony, Sony is ramping up some interesting 1st party games on PSP and PS3 and Nintendo is always going to have a strong influence on their own platforms. The only standout first party game from Microsoft that really amazed me this generation was Crackdown while all the other ones either didn't really interested me that much, were a broken mess glitch wise, or just not really outstanding.  You can bet your ass if the third party situation between Sony and Microsoft was flip flopped at it current state there would be more PS3s out there in N.America and Europe.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2008, 11:35:13 PM »
Quote
Guess what, Sony: We buy gaming consoles to play games.

Well I certainly wish somebody told them that in 2006.  Instead what they heard was "ZOMG Blu-Ray movies will win the HD-format War and thus also beat Nintendo!  Convergence!  Home!  March Excitement!"  Everybody predicted that the PS3 would stomp everything because of what's being advertised.  Common sense like "It'll be games and games alone" was regarded as "Nintendo fanboyism."

I don't think ads really have that much impact.  People were clamoring for Nintendo to change its advertising for the Gamecube a whole lot when it was failing around.  They did several times and not much happened.

It's gonna be rough for them, because they are locked into this HD mindset by their fans who won't buy anything less.  This'll probably lead to studio closings and "refinement" of genres (IE, not making any that don't sell.)
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2008, 02:25:12 PM »
How in the WORLD is Ratchet & Clank seen as a Mario clone?
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2008, 02:36:14 PM »
Everything not made by Nintendo is generic, a clone, or otherwise total refuse not worthy of consideration as even being part of video gaming.  Didn't you get the memo, Zach?
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2008, 02:45:04 PM »
Lindy, your to casual to understand our hardcore ways.

And Sly Cooper I thought was an awesome IP, I'm still working on getting all the Jak, Sly, and Rachet games for PS2 but I play on playing through some of them since I love platformers.

And using rude remarks like that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2008, 04:20:31 PM »
I'm sorry, that memo is currently buried under my significant backlog of awesome PS3 games! :-D

Although, honestly, I'm starting to regret buying Fallout 3. It's not a bad game--it's really quite good. I just don't have the time for it--Fallout 3 is a game you really have to dedicate some time to.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: Advice to PS3 Fans from a Nintendo Fanboy Part III
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2008, 04:48:21 PM »
You'd think that Gran Turismo could've evolved into their key franchise, but I have no idea what happened to that series.

Yeah, personally I think the "realistic" racer genre is pretty niche to begin with, so it is king of a mole hill.

Yeup, its WAY to niche.  Its a great series but Burnout swallowed it whole long ago.  Besides that, theres too many people that don't like any type of racing games.
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