Topic: Editorial: Free NOA!

[Jonnyboy117]

This thread is for discussion of my new editorial:

Free NOA!  

[Savior]

OMG HE said Americanize... thats so dispicable. Nintendo doesnt need to americanize !!!

I kid, obviously. I agree completly. I dont think others will though. Problem is Nintendo has this Japan first approach thats slowly starting to cruble. Far too Slowly

[Famicom]

Nothing to disagree with here. Maybe the real revolution will be that NOA gets a big say in how the Revolution will be handled here in the states?

[Jonnyboy117]

Before the discussion gets too far derailed, I'd like to add this caveat, which I couldn't work into the editorial itself:

I truly believe this is a serious problem at NOA.  It's not talked about much because most people don't realize what a problem it is.  Before posting the editorial, I showed it to several other people who have dealt with NOA, and they were all very happy that someone is finally talking about this issue.  If you interact with Nintendo like I do, the problem of NCL dependency is abundantly clear.  I tried to provide some examples that everyone could understand, but the issue goes much deeper than Nintendo Power demo discs, etc.  It's an entire corporate mentality that seeps into just about everything NOA does.  Consequently, I knew when writing this that many readers would not be able to relate to what I wanted to say.  I hope you will read the article carefully and trust me when I say that this is a huge problem.  One of my main reasons for writing it is so that NOA employees, many of whom read PGC regularly, will see it and be inspired to change the way things work in Redmond, for the better.

[- NintendoFan -]

Excellent article. Although, I think you should slip that paragraph into the article because it seems like a very powerful point about NCL.

[joshnickerson]

Nice editorial. I do agree that NOA needs more freedom if Nintendo wants to regain a foothold in the states, and hopefully we'll see the start of that soon, though I'm sure (?) that it's not as bad as Sega Japan Vs. Sega USA during the 90s. ( http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml )

[foolish03]

Hmmmm, that makes perfect sense.  Two different markets, one strategy.  Good read jonnyboy.

[Ian Sane]

I agree completely with this editorial.  NCL doesn't know what's going on in North America so they shouldn't make decisions regarding the American market.  That's just common sense.

There's one big problem though regarding NCL that NOA would have no control over that could seriously affect the American market: the design of the console itself.  If NCL designed the Revolution with a wacky controller with no buttons, implemented a substitute for online play that only works in Japan, and designed only gimmick games that appeal to non-gamers the console would be a huge failure in North America and NOA could do nothing about it.  It's not like they can realistically have different hardware for the different markets.  They could but then we wouldn't get any games from Japan and a Nintendo that relied entirely on domestic games would be screwed.  NOA can't even really just go online if NCL doesn't want to because the Japanes games people want online like Mario Kart wouldn't be, or NOA would have to delay the American release to add code that allowed it.  NCL's stranglehold over NOA doesn't just affect marketing or American third party support.  NCL is in charge of the actual product themselves.

"Freeing NOA" is a great idea but it needs to be taken a step further.  NOA needs representives at NCL who have say in major decisions that affect the American market.  So if NCL decides that the Revolution is to have N64 graphics the NOA reps can say "sorry that won't work at all in America" and the decision is vetoed.

[Jonnyboy117]

Ian, there could be two different hardware designs with intercompatibility.  Just different shapes on the outside, but if you look at the case of GameCube, it might have made a substantial difference in America.

As for having NOA reps at NCL, I think it's a great idea.  We know that NCL sends producers over to supervise games like Metroid Prime and others developed in America and Europe.  Maybe NOA should do the same with games developed in Japan.

[Ian Sane]

"Ian, there could be two different hardware designs with intercompatibility. Just different shapes on the outside, but if you look at the case of GameCube, it might have made a substantial difference in America."

At that level yes.  The Famicom and NES looked totally different for example.  I'm talking about the guts of the machine.  If NCL designs a console that has subpar graphics NOA can't make a different model for America with cutting edge graphics.

[ruby_onix]

I agree with this article, in that I've heard a lot of people saying that NCL exerts a lot of control over NOA, and that NOA's hands are frequently tied. However, the thing to remember is that NOA will be making some mistakes that are going to be entirely thier own fault if things are left up to them. I'm not saying that things should stay as they are. NOA (and Nintendo in general) needs to shake things up. Fix some things. Find unexpected new solutions. But I'm just saying, people shouldn't expect everything to turn up rosey if NOA got more power.

Quote
Some Nintendo fans fear the Americanization of the gaming industry. They see American games as generic, American gamers as having poor taste, and American publishers as being unstoppable juggernauts seeking to condense a talented development pool into one giant sweat shop, pumping out one roster-updated sports game after another. These fears are exaggerated but not unfounded. They are, however, not related to the issue of NOA’s need for independence.

Thank you Jonny. I didn't quite know how to say that.

Ian: You know that you're afraid of the absurd, right?

[Hostile Creation]

Pretty good editorial.  I can't say I disagree with much, if anything, and I wasn't wholly aware of NCL's close watch over NOA prior to reading this.  Nice work.

[matt oz]

Great editorial.  I think you put into perfect words how the Americanization of Nintendo won't impact the types of games they release.

There are far too many people on this forum who seem unable to distinguish the corporation from the developer.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Reggie sounds like he's alone.  More NOA people must be allowed to have increased influence just as he's enjoyed.


(fight the power)

[Kulock]

It's good to read a dedicated editorial promoting this idea. I had heard that Reggie's decision-making limits were far out of the NCL norm, hence the jokes about a "Reggie-lution" were actually potentially true when it comes to how Nintendo's marketed in the US. It's always painful to read about the GCN demo disc situation, how everyone but NCL is yelling at the latter to allow them, and NCL refuses to because... because... apparently they don't like helping product sales.


At any rate, I believe the DS was sort of an experiment, a field test for Nintendo. The way the console was designed (Built-in WiFi? For a company that swears online gaming is still far away?), the way it's been marketed... But unfortunately, if NCL is stubborn enough, even the best results could be "not good enough" and they use it as an excuse to not repeat those development and empowerment decisions.

[Ian Sane]

"It's always painful to read about the GCN demo disc situation, how everyone but NCL is yelling at the latter to allow them, and NCL refuses to because... because... apparently they don't like helping product sales."

The thing that bugs me about that is NCL has never given any sort of excuse for that.  "Demo discs?  That's a Sony idea so it is terrible and useless!"  At least with online they have some lame ass excuse.

[Djunknown]

As always, a great read.

Unless Iwata is a puppet on Yamauchi's strings, what's he got to lose to give NOA some breathing room? Nintendo's marginalized here as it is. The suits can kid themselves and fall back on the old 'we're still profitable' excuse, but something is broke, and it needs fixing.

I remember seeing demo discs for an unoffical 'Cube magazine for the UK in bookstores, but since its PAL, it doesn't do me much good since I don't a have the freeloader or a modded 'Cube.

Also, NoA should try and replace Rare and Silicon Knights to bring out Western games. Western games with the Nintendo touch are great and innovative, we should seem as frequently as the next game with Mario in it.

[BiLdItUp1]

That's great Jonny...too bad none of the NoA guys could post here without getting their asses fired; I'd love to hear their side of the story.
Maybe people who left the company perhaps could give us some firsthand insight, Retro-Studios-style?

[Jonnyboy117]

NCL thinks demo discs hurt sales.  That is the only excuse I've ever heard.  It's a good one, of course, except that I think it's totally false.

[xts3]

The problem is Nintendo is way too conservative and I'm not sure they have the economic power to compete with microsoft and sony.  Game development has exploded in development costs and only megalith corporations like Sony and Microsoft have the bribing power for those excellent game companies that make your platform a "must own"  games like Metal gear solid 3 by Konami will never see the light of day on a Nintendo console and this is a huge problem.

Huge mistakes they made this round:

1) Once again Inferior storage technology (1.5Gb gc discs, vs DVD5 (4.3GB) and DVD9 (8.5GB)  More and more games are starting to use DVD9's Squaresoft's Xenosaga, Metal Gear solid 3 to name only two.  You dont want to be BEHIND the technology curve when next generation RPG's and games like Metal gear solid can only be done on Blu-ray discs and Nintendo is using some ridiculously small storage medium limiting the kind of gaming experiences that can be created:  Best to have equal storage to competitors then be behind them.

2) They didn't do enough to get games to be devleoped for the gamecube long before the gamecubes release (pre-emptive game development so that you have games when the console is released).

3) Identify all killer apps and games with most sales for their target markets and get them exclusive at the release of your console.  Imagine Final fantasy 13 and Metal Gear Solid 4, exclusive for Nintendo revolution!

4) They didn't spend enough money bribing or wooing 3rd parties, lets face it Microsoft is out to kill.  Buying RARE was just the start, they are declaring war against all comepetitors with that huge warchest of cash.

5) (Personal gripe) Bad controller design, a controller has to control all games well across all platforms.  Fighting games and certain other games are the worst on the gamecube.  Keep it simple stupid (PS1 and PS2 controller is godly and Nintendo could have made a better one if not for the crappy button placement).

6) (Personal gripe) They have to stop designing things like controllers around THEIR games only (gamecubes poor button sizes and placement for fighting games).

7) I was forced to buy a bigger memory card because I saved lots when new games came out.  And being forced to buy a bigger memory card ticked me off,  especially when they were way smaller and cost more then the comeptitions memory cards.

Bad online support and NO GOOD LAN or Internet play (ugh!), how I would have loved to play F-Zero GX over the net.

9) Gameboy-to-Gamecube "connectivity" with NO OPTION of using your regular gamecube controllers to play multiplayer, i.e. Zelda 4 swords, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.  This was the worst idea ever, after saying Nintendo doesn't want people to "pay" they did the most stupid thing with the gameboy connectivity.  No one wants to spend an extra $100 for a gameboy advance as a glorified expensive controller.


Now ultimately... the problem ultimately is that their "Nintendo" brand and games are not worth what they once were and this is reflected in the amount of people who own a gamecube.  Most people that own a gamecube own multiple platforms now.  I'd say they are the hardest of the hardcore gamers for the most part.  Owning Both Gamecube, PS2 and Xbox in North america, while japanese gamers are Owning PS2 and Gamecube in Japan.   I'd say at least 80% of the people that own a gamecube own either a PS2 and/or Xbox  in North America and that is a huge problem because when a game comes out we'd rather have the best version for the best system if its multiplatform.    

[Bloodworth]

I'll have to vocally disagree on the controller comments.  Nintendo has a MUCH better controller than Sony, but because Sony has the more popular console, multi-platform games are designed around their controller.  If GameCube were the market leader you'd see similar sacrifices made since publishers would have been more likely to explore the unique analog shoulder buttons.  

As for fighting games, its the same myth that causes people to put blame on the Metroid Prime controls.  They've played certain games with the same type of controls for so long that they can't take a few minutes to adapt.  In any case, fighting games have always been best with specific third party controllers.  

GameCube's controller is easily the most comfortable and intuitive, and I really hope that by the next generation everyone will abandon the PS1 and PS2's awkward analog placement and multiple shoulder buttons.

/rant

[chlupe]

Jonny, absolutely excellent points. I stumbled on this after I wrote a somewhat similar rant on my website (shameless plug http://www.trigames.net/articles.php?content_id=265), moreso about Iwata not giving gamers here what they want ("mature" titles, online, "sweeping stories" etc..)... I really, really hope that NOA cries "Give Us Free", and that they get it. (Like the Lox from Bad Boy Records...)

The way NCL treats NOA isn't like an "American division" but more like an "American office". It's as if NOA is just a small office for pushing product along to the American market. It has almost no autonomy, and for all of its understanding of the American market (because hey -- the "A" in NOA stands for "America"), it's not allowed to capitalize on it. Jon, I don't interact with NOA or NCL on any level, I'm just a bummy fan, but I understand the turmoil here. Please, PLEASE make sure the heads over at NOA see this, it's a great wake-up call.

[xts3]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
I'll have to vocally disagree on the controller comments.  Nintendo has a MUCH better controller than Sony, but because Sony has the more popular console, multi-platform games are designed around their controller.  If GameCube were the market leader you'd see similar sacrifices made since publishers would have been more likely to explore the unique analog shoulder buttons.  

As for fighting games, its the same myth that causes people to put blame on the Metroid Prime controls.  They've played certain games with the same type of controls for so long that they can't take a few minutes to adapt.  In any case, fighting games have always been best with specific third party controllers.  

GameCube's controller is easily the most comfortable and intuitive, and I really hope that by the next generation everyone will abandon the PS1 and PS2's awkward analog placement and multiple shoulder buttons.

/rant

The fighting game is not a "myth" the button placement of the PS2 copied the original SNES controller and it was PERFECT as it was.  Game cube controller is GOOD but its not GREAT, its too narrowly designed.  When you design a controller it has to be good for all genre's of games.  I just can't take your comment on fighting games seriously.  Once again you're trying to be too narrow and sectarian, Metroid prime DOES have a bad control scheme aiming above your head having to hold the shoulder button IS a bad control design decision.  Just because the control scheme for a game is bad doesn't mean the game IS bad or that Nintendo games suck, lets be reasonable here as a multiplatform gamer and a hardcore gamer I speak AS A GAMER WHO LOVES GAMES, not as someone licks Nintendo's boots.  I would like to see Nintendo become as great as it once was but it seems they're floundering and losing direction they are not UNDERSTANDING what makes games great, the lower review from all gaming sites for Mario sunshine, Windwaker and Mario kart DD prove this in spades.
 

[GoldenPhoenix]

xts you have some good points, but I feel you are letting personal opinion slip in there, especially referencing the GC controller. That is obviously a personal preference, and besides MS has what was considered to be the WORSE controller (though I actually like it lol) yet they succeeded, so I don't consider that a "huge" mistake. The memory card thing never was much of an issue, the majority of games only used a few blocks of them, nothing took up alot of memory except for a few games like HM and AC. So that isn't a huge mistake, should they have been larger memory wise? Perhaps, though I think that problem has been rectified and like I said it never was a make or break thing. Exclusive titles, I'll give you that and all related issues. Storage medium, to a degree, not what I call huge because 1.5 GBs is still alot, especially since you can have multiple disk games. Resident Evil 4 is proof positive you don't need a huge DVD disk to create a fantastic game!  It is not even close to the mistake of having N64 use cartridges, now that was a huge mistake!

To the editorial writer himself, I can't find anything to disagree with (Unlike that gamespot writer article that I read).

[Procession]

Damn, if anything demos help sales. They're a great promotional tool and are never substitutes for full games. The only reason anyone has to worry about demos is if their game is rubbish, and that's very rarely the case with Nintendo.

The main problem I find with NCL is that they don't seem to realise they're in trouble, especially in the Western markets. When I hear Iwata talk about how the market in Japan is shrinking I can't help but think he should more be talking about how Nintendo's market has shrunk disproportionately to its competitors and talking about what he is doing about it. Nintendo isn't the market leader when it comes to home consoles, and as Steven kent pointed out, their share has almost halved with each generation following the NES. Why not try and win back the gamers who have gone to Sony and then go after non-gamer market, which is much more of a longshot.