Topic: 3D controls: not just "the next analog stick"

[eljefe]

Does anyone realize how large an impact this pointing device will have on the future? I honestly believe that, whether they intend to or not, Nintendo is about to release a machine that will have a huge impact on user interfacing. Eventually, all electronic products will use a 3D motion-detection as their primary input.

Nintendo's new controller will be remembered as a pivotal link in the adjustment to these new appliances (mentally and physically).

I didn't feel like typing much, (or stirring the rumour pot any more than it has been..), but I do think its fun to imagine the possiblilities Nintendo is opening up.
 

[EasyCure]

no doubt eljefe.

this isnt just "the next analog stick" indeed but we can all see that its impact will be similar in the fact that competition will try to "copy" this means of impu until, as nintendo predicted, becomes the standard.
nintendo has been doing it all along; d-pad, analog stick, force-feedback, and now xyz-controls.
i full heartedly believe this is the start of a "new generation" of video gaming.
I dont want to come across as soley a nintendo fanboy (cuz i am hehe) but i honestly feel that simply adding more buttons to controllers, as well as rehashed game concepts, is turning the video game industry to a stale peice o' crap. Yes you can argue that revenues of companies are higher than they were in year 19XX or 20XX but thats not what im talking about here. i didnt envision when PS2, GC, and XBOX were released that all we would be seeing was a Tom Clancy title every other month, a new WWII game coming out almost every day, or the likes of that (annual sports games are a given...). I thought that with the advancement of technology we would have games that could have NEVER of been done on the previous systems. what do we get? stale repetitive bull"plop".  I played Rainbow Six on n64, i dont have to play another five reiterations of it with updated graphics. i want something NEW. even now with the start of the 'next' generations of video games kicked off by xbox, what did we see? MORE WWII sims, the annual sports title, a sequel to a brilliant FPS that was on n64 and was beautifully butchered*, and an "epic" quest that also began its life as an n64 project...

(*im sorry but hd graphics just can't replace good overall gameplay)

what the revolution brings to the table is innovation, and a much needed breath of fresh air. the DS really was a hint of things to come and it saddens me i never bothered picking one up closer to launch that i now have to go back and pick up older titles before picking up the more recent ones (it saddens my wallet as well).
everyone in these forums, well almost everyone, is already excited about the gameplay for Red Steel, the so far ONLY revolution game unveiled to the public. to think, such anticipation for a 3rd party title. just imagine what Nintendo has in store for all their Major releases. forget all the talk bout cooking games and all those games geared toward a new audience. think about what suprises they'll have for us, the diehard fans, with franches like mario and zelda as well as any new IP's that take a "traditional" game and turn it on it head with these new control mechanics. We havent recieved any recent news about TP but instead were shown a new DS zelda title and look at how innovative touch screen controls work in that title. imagine if such things were adopted to a zelda title BUILT FOR THE REVOLUTION FROM THE GROUND UP. what if you could control the path of your boomerang with the 'revmote' the way you do in the Phantom Hourglass, or if you could use the revmote to mark notes on a map like in the DS title? just wiat to see what Nintendo's brilliantly insane creators/developers can come up with.
my friends, we are heading towards a brand new day in playing video games.

[mantidor]

My cousin some days ago told me very excited about this new console that Nintendo was going to release, and how she wanted to buy just because of the concept alone "Its practically virtual reality" I just smiled when she said that!

She is not that big of a gamer but was in the past with the NES, and she loves the sims.

I really think the only possible negative feedback for the remote is going to come from people inside the gaming comunity, whether is fanboyism ir simply a jaded audience that cant acept change, for everyone else the concept is simply amazing.

[EasyCure]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor

I really think the only possible negative feedback for the remote is going to come from people inside the gaming comunity, whether is fanboyism ir simply a jaded audience that cant acept change, for everyone else the concept is simply amazing.

agreed. when consumers are given next generation systems with last generaion controls the past 3 generations, those consumers wont except change because they are being led to believe what they have is what is good. ps1 and ps2 controllers are the same, ps 3's now cacneled controller-rang is the same thing in a new shape and xboxes control is still the same 'lets take that huge dreamcast controller that everyone MUST of forgotten about by now, make it look similar enough to a ps controller so people can feel familiar with it, slap on two extra buttons and call it a day"

for the rest of us, this change is welcome; the concept is, as you put it, simply amazing; and the technology is the only true next generation thing about this next generation of video games. the hardest part for nintendo will be getting those jaded gamers to try something new. i say though if people will play a game with a fake guitar or dance like morons in public, they MUST try this new controller atleast once. thats all it will probably take for even the most jaded players to realize what next gen really is.

[EasyCure]

by the way...

i know i've said this in some other thread but this one is more suited for it. if anyone else has seen that "ign weekly" video with that cute girl out on the street with matt's DSL asking people what they think of it...
remember that one guy who was playing with it, barely looked up to answer the interviewers questions but kept bad mouthing nintendo? he said things like "its the same crap they've always given us, they need to get psp graphics, this is the same bad graphics theyve always had, nothings changed...they couldnt even GIVE me a revolution, iw ouldnt play it...etc."
all that while he was smashing buttons and using the stylus and looked up from the system only twice i'd say.
thats the jaded audience. the audience that feels nintendo is bad because microsoft and sony are relatively doing the same things, taking the same paths, which must be good. those are the jaded players who dont think outside the box...yet when the tiniest bit of innovation hits them their hooked without realizing it.
give that guy a game like brainage, nintendogs, or that cooking game mr. Miyamoto keeps talking about and he'll bash and bash. give him something like Red Steel or some other type of game you'd typically see on competitor consoles and not nintendo...let him realize how amazing the little remote he's holding in his hand is as he's shooting a gun out of an enemies hands or swinging a sword about and then he'll finally get it.

[mantidor]

"all that while he was smashing buttons and using the stylus and looked up from the system only twice i'd say."

haha he was hooked to the ds, he just will never admit it

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I expect the 3D sensing tech to be in laptops after the Rev.  The sensors would be built into the frame of the LCD screen, and control via a freehand stylus with buttons (something easier to tuck away than the Rev remote).

You'd achieve "light gun" gaming, freehand drawing, "laser pointing", freehand writing.  And gladly, the TRACKPAD WOULD BE ELIMINATED.

[wandering]

I think, in order to have revmote controls in computers, the UIs would need to change as well. To change into something out of Minority Report.

I don't think using a 3-d pointer device just to control the mouse pointer in Windows XP, would be any easier or more intuitive...except when giving presentations and the like.

Quote
"all that while he was smashing buttons and using the stylus and looked up from the system only twice i'd say."

haha he was hooked to the ds, he just will never admit it

I've seen this with Pokemon. Seriously, teenagers who would play the game all the time, constantly badmouth it, and say they just played because it's "strangely addictive."

[thejeek]

I'm not sure I'd fancy a Revolution style controller as a general replacement for my mouse - I use my mouse up to 18 hours a day and I don't want to have to hold it in the air all that time - my right arm would either fall off or become so muscular compared to my left that I would no longer be able to stand upright...

[GoldenPhoenix]

TheJeek I agree with you there, mouse should remain the PC's main input device. On the flip side I think Revolution has potential to define console gaming, it may be the first step in bringing console gaming back to its roots, where console games were not ports of PC games but in fact unique experiences that could only be fully enjoyed on a console. If things never do change, I am afraid consoles will turn out to be the poor man's alternative to a pricey PC upgrade.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Notice I mention laptops, not desktops.  

Wandering, the depth sensing doesn't have to be employed.  I'm simply trading in the Cartesian Coordinate nature of the mouse in favor of the "laser pointer" functionality -- more like an "air touchpad".  Going further, give the laptop screen a strong outer layer built for contact with the stylus, that way you can "write/draw" on the screen making it a large touchpad that doesn't rely on applying pressure on a gooey traditional touchscreen surface.

Sure, it'd be best to adjust the UI's, but I imagine it wouldn't be quite an overhaul.

My main issue with the mouse/keyboard setup is it's always tied to a desktop surface (which is also a fundamental difference between PC and console gaming).  Laying your wrists in front on a desk surface for 18 hours is arguably "not good" for you (hence the ergo industry), so giving your wrists some space and freedom can be somewhat desirable.

thejeek, remind yourself how the Rev controller works.  You don't HAVE TO hold your arm in the air to use it.  Same goes for a laser pointer.  My chair has armrests, I like them, and i'll use them.  Sitting back, resting my arms and pointing at things laser-style isn't much of a problem.  Neither would resting my elbow on the armrest and holding the stylus as if i were writing in the air, though it would admittedly burn more calories.

But back to laptops.  An "air stylus" would be much better than a trackpad, more portable than a mouse (no surface required), and it would enable accurate writing/drawing input.  Such are attractive to me.

[thejeek]

Quote
Notice I mention laptops, not desktops.

For games, sure - I'd like that - but for non-game use I can't see using anything that requires me to take my hands off the keyboard. I use a laptop as my main machine for work and I'm wedded to its nipple mouse because I can mouse + type without removing my hands from the keyboard. I'd be unhappy having to move my hand to use a regular mouse, let alone having to pick it up and wave it around.

Additionally, I don't have to remember to take my nipple mouse with me as it's part of the machine and I can't loose it down the back of the sofa or leave it on the train - which if you're as vacant as I am is an important point.

[eljefe]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Notice I mention laptops, not desktops.  

...The depth sensing doesn't have to be employed.  I'm simply trading in the Cartesian Coordinate nature of the mouse in favor of the "laser pointer" functionality -- more like an "air touchpad".  Going further, give the laptop screen a strong outer layer built for contact with the stylus, that way you can "write/draw" on the screen making it a large touchpad that doesn't rely on applying pressure on a gooey traditional touchscreen surface.

Sure, it'd be best to adjust the UI's, but I imagine it wouldn't be quite an overhaul.

..An "air stylus" would be much better than a trackpad, more portable than a mouse (no surface required), and it would enable accurate writing/drawing input.  Such are attractive to me.

genius ideas, man

It could be like this..



that looks small enough to fit in a slot in the laptop when you're not using it.  

[Smash_Brother]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm happy as all f*cking hell that Nintendo has chosen to be the innovator.

The innovator survives no matter what, because you will ALWAYS have people who flock to innovation and will seldom accept anything less.

The DS was definitely on to something, and the Revmote IS the next step toward virtual reality: controlling a point in 3D space with your own movement instead of moving a stick which has is scaled to the size of the screen. Years from now, when we look back, it'll seem completely logical, like it was the natural progression of the interface between humans and appliances.

[Ceric]

I would like to chime in on the remote replacing a mouse.  Just use on Windows XP Tablet.  That's what your talking about.  The pen is required to be active.  Meaning that you don't have to touch the screen for it to sense the movement.  It's a great idea until you use it.  Double click is near impossible.  I, personally, would rather see integrated multi-touch screen touchpads for laptops and tablet PC's.  The technology is already in a state where MS has already pledged support with Vista and an upgrade to XP.  I just think it would be a better fit.  Now on the flipside.  For presentations oh yeah.  I mean if I could use the USB ports on the Rev to let me use a Revmote as a mouse for my Uber Presentation project, think huge lecture hall.  Then Yeah I want it.  Actually, if you dig a little in this forum there is my take on what I think the Nintendo E3 Presentation will be.  I really do want a full home control system with my Rev as a Central hub.  I think it be cool.  I'll come back and lick it sometime when I can find it again.

[Jensen]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I would like to chime in on the remote replacing a mouse.  Just use on Windows XP Tablet.  That's what your talking about.  The pen is required to be active.  Meaning that you don't have to touch the screen for it to sense the movement.  It's a great idea until you use it.  Double click is near impossible.  I, personally, would rather see integrated multi-touch screen touchpads for laptops and tablet PC's.  The technology is already in a state where MS has already pledged support with Vista and an upgrade to XP.  I just think it would be a better fit.  Now on the flipside.  For presentations oh yeah.  I mean if I could use the USB ports on the Rev to let me use a Revmote as a mouse for my Uber Presentation project, think huge lecture hall.  Then Yeah I want it.  Actually, if you dig a little in this forum there is my take on what I think the Nintendo E3 Presentation will be.  I really do want a full home control system with my Rev as a Central hub.  I think it be cool.  I'll come back and lick it sometime when I can find it again.

I use a Cintiq at work and an Intuos tablet at home.  Double clicking is a non-issue... just design the interface so double clicking isn't required, or use a button on the pen.   I haven't seen anything on multi-touch except for some school research as on that video that went around a couple of months ago.
But, I don't see why you couldn't have both technologies in one screen.  I don't see how the Revmote would be that useful for desktop use.

[Ceric]

Jensen:  Just because I don't follow tablets. Is the Cintig and Intuos active or passive?

[Jensen]

Active.  Most Tablet PCs use the same Wacom technology.

[KDR_11k]

I'd say passive is a better word since the pen does not have any power source inside as opposed to pretty much every other tablet. Sensing the pen position even when you aren't touching the tablet is standard with all tablets, even that cheap and awful Aldi-tablet I used once.